1. Post #41
    So how bout that KNO3?
    Sled Dog's Avatar
    September 2010
    419 Posts
    What do trophies have to do with damaging your hearing over time?
    I already said this, but his (very successful) method of hunting doesn't involve wearing hearing protection for some reason. If he were to use a suppressor, he wouldn't be damaging his ears nearly as much. I honestly don't understand people that won't wear hearing protection, but there's clearly some merit to it.

  2. Post #42
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
    TacticalBacon's Avatar
    November 2010
    6,050 Posts
    Wear earmuffs, what a crock and a half
    Just a thought, but earmuffs only protect the shooter. A suppressor protects the shooter, any other people who might be in the area and whatever wildlife are in the area. It is quite literally better for everyone and everything involved, which is why there's quite a few countries in Europe where suppressors are strongly encouraged for hunting use or even outright required.
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  3. Post #43
    Well, what had happened was.....
    Silence I Kill You's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,271 Posts
    Literally never had any issue scaring animals away, we hunted on the edge of a field and generally had several minutes with the deer in sight so I wasn't exactly scrambling to get ear protection in.



    The fuck are you even going on about. It takes literally half a second to get ear protection in place. Never once had something walk right past me because I was "sitting with muffs like a fool" since you can just sit with them on your head but not over your ears and easily have them on with no issue when they're needed.
    OOOOOOOHHHHH, you're one of those fancy hunters with a field, not someone in a tree climber in the swamp listening for swamp donkey footsteps in the water behind or underneath the tree you're in because you can't see 30 yards past the thick bushes. A place where when you see a deer, it also sees you, and you have to move very very very slowly as to not spook it.

    It makes sense now.
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  4. Post #44
    Zombinie's Avatar
    June 2013
    613 Posts
    So psyched for easier suppressed guns, this is my dream (skip to 2:05). You could plink all day without a care.

  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    Anderan's Avatar
    June 2012
    6,179 Posts
    OOOOOOOHHHHH, you're one of those fancy hunters with a field, not someone in a tree climber in the swamp listening for swamp donkey footsteps in the water behind or underneath the tree you're in because you can't see 30 yards past the thick bushes. A place where when you see a deer, it also sees you, and you have to move very very very slowly as to not spook it.

    It makes sense now.
    I live in Indiana, there isn't much else besides fields. Even the nearby forests aren't that dense.
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  6. Post #46
    What fun is there in making sense?
    Ridge's Avatar
    October 2007
    10,737 Posts
    A suppressor is functionally identical to a muffler on a car. It doesn't make it whisper quiet, it just lowers the noise level to something more tolerable.
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  7. Post #47
    Gold Member
    *Freezorg*'s Avatar
    February 2008
    4,127 Posts
    Maybe shoot less guns
    What a useless post.

    You people and your high horses, jesus christ.
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  8. Post #48
    Well, what had happened was.....
    Silence I Kill You's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,271 Posts
    I live in Indiana, there isn't much else besides fields. Even the nearby forests aren't that dense.
    Yeah, everyone's experiences with hunting aren't the same. Everyone's needs are different. People in box stands overlooking fields and food plots may be fine with ear muffs, but hunters who hunt on foot or in tree climbers where they are exposed and have to make every move count don't have that luxury.

  9. Post #49
    Gold Member
    PaChIrA's Avatar
    October 2008
    8,433 Posts
    I hope this passes.
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  10. Post #50
    nox
    Gold Member
    nox's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,019 Posts
    I like how most people think suppressors work like they do in the movies, and the reality is that they do not, shots are still loud, and you should still wear ear protection even with a suppressor.
    What is even the purpose then?

  11. Post #51
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
    TacticalBacon's Avatar
    November 2010
    6,050 Posts
    What is even the purpose then?
    To bring guns from "so loud your ears are being annihilated with every shot" down to "still very loud but not ear-destroying".
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  12. Post #52
    Gold Member
    *Freezorg*'s Avatar
    February 2008
    4,127 Posts
    What is even the purpose then?
    To suppress. It's not a silencer but it's still a suppressor.

  13. Post #53
    GOSH FUDGING DARNIT
    Fish Muffin's Avatar
    January 2008
    7,834 Posts
    What is even the purpose then?
    its less loud.
    yes, you should technically still wear ear pro, but you wont permanently damage your ears if you dont wear earpro with a supressor.
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  14. Post #54
    Gold Member
    HAKKAR!!!'s Avatar
    June 2006
    6,875 Posts
    I dont really shoot ever so idk, but with a lot of things like this wouldn't it just be better to raise awareness of how much it can affect your hearing? could just be a lot of people don't realise just how MUCH damage it can do in the long run and it's way better than forcing people to wear muffs when they dont want to

    this seems like its in the same vein as taxing cigarettes to save lives, its not really gonna stop anyone if they really want to

  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2008
    13,917 Posts
    cool, pass this and then lets get to work on dismantling the NFA
    Honestly, I think we should just bring back the original draft of the Dicks Act. Everyone can own whatever the hell they want, but organized groups have to be registered with state or federal authorities.

  16. Post #56
    FZE
    Gold Member
    FZE's Avatar
    March 2005
    944 Posts
    I dont really shoot ever so idk, but with a lot of things like this wouldn't it just be better to raise awareness of how much it can affect your hearing? could just be a lot of people don't realise just how MUCH damage it can do in the long run and it's way better than forcing people to wear muffs when they dont want to

    this seems like its in the same vein as taxing cigarettes to save lives, its not really gonna stop anyone if they really want to
    It's not going to stop anyone who insists on shooting without any form of hearing protection, but the goal is to give the vast multitudes of shooters who would employ it for their own safety and that of others the choice to do so without going through an egregiously expensive and time-consuming process. It's less like taxing cigarettes to save lives and more like removing taxes on nicotine patches to make quitting smoking more accessible.
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  17. Post #57
    nox
    Gold Member
    nox's Avatar
    March 2007
    3,019 Posts
    To suppress. It's not a silencer but it's still a suppressor.
    I know what a suppressor is, I was referring to the mention of the fact that you'd still need to wear ear protection if using one.

  18. Post #58
    Don't Worry, I'm a Marine
    UncleJimmema's Avatar
    October 2005
    4,032 Posts
    You can say what you want about how they're advertising the bill, but at the end of the day it's a big deal. Most headphones on the market reduce noise by about 30-32 decibels, with earplugs in combination with that only providing another 2 on top of it (remember decibels are compounding). As a life long shooter I've always worn ear pro, even through out my time in the military shooting everything from your basic handgun on the range to a minigun from a helicopter. I still suffered hearing loss and have oh so awesome tinnitus.

    Putting things into prospective approximately every 3 decibels the audible noise that we hear doubles. Thats why we can barely hear anything below 40db in a normal setting and normal conversation is around 60db. A lawn mower produces around 90db and a rock concert produces around 120. With that in mind, and remembering that roughly every 3 decibels the volume is double of what it was, a gunshot falls between 140db - 190db depending on the firearm. Once you hit 140db thats instant damage to your hearing, regardless of duration. Anything above 80 decibels can also damage your hearing under prolonged exposure.

    So now that the basic science is out of the way, lets get back to our headphones. How loud the gun actually is is dependent on a number of factors (such as the bullet size and weight, barrel length, etc) , not just the size of the round. Those kind of things are why a 9mm 5" pistol can clock in at 160db while a 30-06 26" Rifle brings a score of 156db. Lets push things to the upper limit, say an 18" .357 carbine which brings in about 170db. At 170db even with headphones AND earplugs you're still above the 140db range which equals instant hearing damage.

    That's just one example. Plenty of other people have mention the other reasons, such as hunting or indoor shooting. Tons of people do not wear ear pro because they prefer the situational awareness of not wearing hearing protection, which can make all the difference for a successful hunt (remember not all game is the same).

    Beyond the hearing benefits there's also noticeable benefits in terms of recoil and muzzle flash. For a hunter the muzzle flash can make all the difference, as a hunt at dawn or dusk means low light levels. Low light plus muzzle flash equates to being essentially blind for a good bit. Recoil is also a big deal, as a .300 win mag kicks quite a bit more than a .308, and significantly more than a .223. Hard recoil equals flinching, flinching equals misses.

    Lastly, most suppressors bring you just below instant damage with most firearms and cartridges (and on some applications, aren't even below 140db). That's enough to not instantly damage your hearing if your hunting or accidentally shoot without ear pro, as well as supplement your current ear pro.

    Of course .22's are the exception, being down to around 117db, but that's still almost as loud as a rock concert.
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  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    butre's Avatar
    July 2008
    18,406 Posts
    Wear earmuffs, what a crock and a half
    good earmuffs might drop the report by 30 decibels or so. that's a lot, but not really enough when a gun report can easily be in the 180 db range. for reference the loudest sound possible is 194 dB, and past 140 is instant permanent hearing damage. suppressors are much more effective.

    not to mention, when you're hunting the last thing you want to be wearing is something to muffle sounds. good way to get mauled by a bear.

    not like suppressors really quiet down a report that much anyway. there are some exceptions (delisle carbines are the quietest guns ever made, clocking in around 85 db, which they manage to do with the help of some extremely heavy and slow moving ammo pushed through what is probably the largest suppressor ever used by any military) but for the most part with normal off the shelf ammo you're still looking in the 120-130 db range
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  20. Post #60
    OvB
    Facepunch resident scientist
    OvB's Avatar
    March 2007
    17,821 Posts
    Shouldn't be hard to get a suppressor IMO.
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  21. Post #61
    FZE
    Gold Member
    FZE's Avatar
    March 2005
    944 Posts
    I know what a suppressor is, I was referring to the mention of the fact that you'd still need to wear ear protection if using one.
    Wearing hearing protection with a silencer* is sometimes necessary and always a good idea, but silencers are an extra layer of protection at worst and all you need in some scenarios.

    * the guy who invented it called it that so idgaf, you haters can take it up with one of the most prolific firearms engineering families in history

  22. Post #62
    Shirt.'s Avatar
    June 2014
    310 Posts

    not to mention, when you're hunting the last thing you want to be wearing is something to muffle sounds. good way to get mauled by a bear.
    That's why you bring a gun

  23. Post #63
    FZE
    Gold Member
    FZE's Avatar
    March 2005
    944 Posts
    That's why you bring a gun
    This is probably humor please do not spend the next eighteen posts explaining why awareness is a much better way not to get bearkilled than having any kind of gun
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  24. Post #64
    Gold Member
    butre's Avatar
    July 2008
    18,406 Posts
    That's what the gun is for
    you ever been bear hunting? the bullets you need to kill a bear destroy too much meat to be useful for anything other than bear or hog. it'll eviscerate a deer. and the bullets you use to kill deer will just piss off a bear.
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  25. Post #65
    F.X Clampazzo's Avatar
    October 2016
    836 Posts
    It would be great for people like my step-father who simply refuse to use earplugs when they go hunting. Criticize him as you like, but he's obviously doing it correctly based on the number of trophies he's accumulated.
    Yeah all those trophies sure were worth hearing damage tbh. Every day I sit up and think to my self, "yeah that stuffed deer head sure was worth the chronic, maddening tinitus and having to change hearing aid batteries.". A suppressor wouldn't even help /that/ much, it's still stupid af to not wear ear pro.

    He's an idiot, and that's all there is to it. It has absolutely nothing to do with having a suppressor and everything to do with the fact that he's too stupid to care about his hearing.

  26. Post #66
    So how bout that KNO3?
    Sled Dog's Avatar
    September 2010
    419 Posts
    Yeah all those trophies sure were worth hearing damage tbh. Every day I sit up and think to my self, "yeah that stuffed deer head sure was worth the chronic, maddening tinitus and having to change hearing aid batteries.". A suppressor wouldn't even help /that/ much, it's still stupid af to not wear ear pro.

    He's an idiot, and that's all there is to it. It has absolutely nothing to do with having a suppressor and everything to do with the fact that he's too stupid to care about his hearing.
    He's no idiot—he's a surgeon. I guess he just values hunting more than hearing. You can speak with him just fine and he doesn't wear hearing aids.
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  27. Post #67
    Wear earmuffs, what a crock and a half
    What about everyone around you and the neighbors who have to hear *POW POW POW POW* all the time.
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  28. Post #68
    F.X Clampazzo's Avatar
    October 2016
    836 Posts
    He's no idiot—he's a surgeon. I guess he just values hunting more than hearing. You can speak with him just fine and he doesn't wear hearing aids.
    Uhh, just because he's a surgeon doesn't mean literally anything. Ben Carson is a surgeon too and Dr. Oz is also an actual doctor, a heart doctor at that. You can be someone who is technically smart and still be an absolute moron.
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  29. Post #69
    Shouldn't be hard to get a suppressor IMO.
    It's expensive and there's a lot of unnecessary red tape surrounding it.

  30. Post #70
    Dennab
    October 2015
    1,376 Posts
    "silenced" (correct term suppressed) shots from a weapon are still crazy fucking loud.

    The only benefit you'd gain from committing murder with a suppressed weapon is perhaps if you were in an active warzone, or a precise enough sharpshooter to plug someone from a half-mile with a subsonic round.
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  31. Post #71
    I've got a bad feeling about this
    Sonador's Avatar
    December 2007
    2,994 Posts
    Two things for this thread:

    Just because you don't doesn't mean you get to say other people can't. Don't like guns and gun accessories? Don't buy them. Your opinion of whether or not we should have them is irrelevant against the US Constitution, and no amount of entitlement changes that. You're welcome to try to change that, though, just don't tread on my rights in the interim.

    Hearing protection with pass-through microphones are a thing. Real people use them in real world situations, from hunters, to SWAT teams, to recreational shooters. It allows natural noise at the actual level pass through, or even be amplified, whilst limiting the upper volume so as to not exceed hearing-damaging levels of noise.
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  32. Post #72
    L'Citizen's Avatar
    December 2015
    435 Posts
    Maybe shoot less guns
    I'll do that when you pry them from my cold, dead hands, you fascist.
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  33. Post #73
    So how bout that KNO3?
    Sled Dog's Avatar
    September 2010
    419 Posts
    Uhh, just because he's a surgeon doesn't mean literally anything. Ben Carson is a surgeon too and Dr. Oz is also an actual doctor, a heart doctor at that. You can be someone who is technically smart and still be an absolute moron.
    He's a very successful man who's dedicated to his field. Sure, he makes a few bad decisions like smoking cigarettes and shooting without hearing protection, but that doesn't make him a clean cut moron; try not to be so black and white with these kinds of things. I question a lot of things that he does, but damn, do I respect him. I chalk it up to 'old habits die hard.'
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  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    PandaJuggernaut's Avatar
    January 2010
    646 Posts
    I shoot 3 gun,uspsa,NRA long range/F-class and IDPA in a slow year I shoot 10k+ rounds. I can't shoot suppressed at those matches however I can at home or at the range anything I can do to cut down on noise is a welcome addition.

    I currently have 4 suppressors (AAC 7.62 SDN-6, Rebel SOS-22,SilencerCo Osprey 45 and an AAC titan-QD) the "quietest" out of those is the SOS-22 at 118Db Avg which is still fucking loud but not loud enough to fuck up my ears for the rest of the day if my earpro isn't on fully which I consider a win. I also consider it a win if while boar hunting someone shoots before everyone has earpro on with a .300Blk or .458 or .50 beowulf and my ears don't ring for the rest of the day

  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    HAKKAR!!!'s Avatar
    June 2006
    6,875 Posts
    "silenced" (correct term suppressed) shots from a weapon are still crazy fucking loud.

    The only benefit you'd gain from committing murder with a suppressed weapon is perhaps if you were in an active warzone, or a precise enough sharpshooter to plug someone from a half-mile with a subsonic round.
    Not trying to start an argument coz I actually don't know, how to guns get as quiet as

    Is it bad audio compression or are those bullets not capable of killing people

  36. Post #76
    Zombinie's Avatar
    June 2013
    613 Posts
    Is it bad audio compression or are those bullets not capable of killing people
    well they are .22lr (a very small round) which is very suppressible especially when subsonic, and the suppressor in this rifle is integrated into the barrel which is also very good at suppressing, so the noise is about as noticeable as the mechanical action irl
    I'd say this gun would work for squirrels, and maybe small game but with a human it would take lucky/skilled shot placement to kill with few rounds.
    Its most effective purpose would be pests and having fun shooting targets.
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  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    PandaJuggernaut's Avatar
    January 2010
    646 Posts
    Not trying to start an argument coz I actually don't know, how to guns get as quiet as



    Is it bad audio compression or are those bullets not capable of killing people
    that's an integrally suppressed .22 and most likely subsonic .22 at that. That is pretty much the quietest combination you can get for a gun however that shouldn't really be considered the norm for suppressors the quietest can I have is also a .22 but shoots about 118Db avg which as I've stated is still fucking loud

  38. Post #78
    Don't Worry, I'm a Marine
    UncleJimmema's Avatar
    October 2005
    4,032 Posts
    that's an integrally suppressed .22 and most likely subsonic .22 at that. That is pretty much the quietest combination you can get for a gun however that shouldn't really be considered the norm for suppressors the quietest can I have is also a .22 but shoots about 118Db avg which as I've stated is still fucking loud
    For the record I think the welrod pistol was able to get down to 60db with the muizzle pressed up against the target (turning the target into "more baffles and wipes"). As far as actually practical firearms go the De Lisle Carbine was able to get down to around 85db, which is still about as loud as a lawnmower.

  39. Post #79
    $200 tax stamps on suppressors wouldn't stop someone who really wanted to have a suppressed weapon illegally anyways, making your own out of shit you can find in your average garage is trivial
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  40. Post #80
    Gold Member
    butre's Avatar
    July 2008
    18,406 Posts
    For the record I think the welrod pistol was able to get down to 60db with the muizzle pressed up against the target (turning the target into "more baffles and wipes"). As far as actually practical firearms go the De Lisle Carbine was able to get down to around 85db, which is still about as loud as a lawnmower.
    60db is still loud enough to easily hear, but maybe not loud enough to pinpoint a location.
    Not trying to start an argument coz I actually don't know, how to guns get as quiet as



    Is it bad audio compression or are those bullets not capable of killing people
    mostly bad audio compression, but those are some tiny little .22 LR bullets coming out of it