1. Post #201
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,872 Posts
    I really don't see how standard grenades would be a bad addition, if not as an idea for a secondary weapon.

    Demoman is a god in this game, he's not going to be rendered useless by a one time throwable item.
    It's not about demoman being rendered useless, grenades got removed from most classes because TFC was a grenade spamfest as a result of having them.

    Now we have just one single class devoted to that task, works out pretty well I think.

    Edited:

    Besides, mad milk and jarate can be thought of as grenades. No need to go further than that.
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  2. Post #202
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,130 Posts
    Not sure if mentioned, but a tiny thing I noticed upon rereading the older comics: TFC Scout and Demo were both named Greg.



    Not really pertinent and I'd wager it was probably just an oversight, but eh- the things you forget when significant time passes.
    But imagine the comedy.

    TFC Heavy yells "hey greg, bring me those explosives!", and then both demo and scout show up with crates full of bombs. Then the studio audience laughs and credits roll.

    I wish i was good with characters in 3d. I'd love to remake all the TFC team in TF2 style
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  3. Post #203
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    2,334 Posts
    Not sure if mentioned, but a tiny thing I noticed upon rereading the older comics: TFC Scout and Demo were both named Greg.



    Not really pertinent and I'd wager it was probably just an oversight, but eh- the things you forget when significant time passes.
    Actually, I don't think "greg" was referring to the demoman, only that he had put three uteruses in greg. tfc demoman was just writhing in pain from the one he got
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  4. Post #204
    Mort Stroodle's Avatar
    June 2014
    6,911 Posts
    Actually, I don't think "greg" was referring to the demoman, only that he had put three uteruses in greg. tfc demoman was just writhing in pain from the one he got
    Why would he suddenly be in pain once medic mentioned it? He obviously didn't feel it before or else he would've known med wasn't actually filling a cavity
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  5. Post #205
    KenjiKusanagi's Avatar
    August 2010
    1,220 Posts
    Demoman is a god in this game, he's not going to be rendered useless by a one time throwable item.
    If you mean his MIRV grenade, Heavy has that too and it's only good for keeping one area longer than a standard grenade.

    But don't fuck with EMP grenades unless you throw away unneeded ammo and stay away from backpacks.

  6. Post #206
    gnampf's Avatar
    June 2015
    1,553 Posts
    I like how Scout references a Tom Jones song that comes out almost 10 years after he dies.
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  7. Post #207
    TWKUK's Avatar
    January 2013
    217 Posts
    the flow of time is convoluted in this land
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  8. Post #208
    World's Okayest Comic Guy
    usaokay's Avatar
    February 2005
    28,813 Posts
    Have to say that the quality of Makani's drawings and the colorization got better as time goes on.
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  9. Post #209
    SediSocks's Avatar
    November 2012
    611 Posts
    Have to say that the quality of Makani's drawings and the colorization got better as time goes on.
    This issue was actually inked and coloured by differnt people
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  10. Post #210
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,996 Posts
    Have to say that the quality of Makani's drawings and the colorization got better as time goes on.
    I prefer the old look, the new one looks more sterile somewhat.

    Compare some frames from Blood in the Water with The Naked and the Dead.
    The new frames look much more precise, like sketching over posed 3D models.

    Look at the differences between old and new Heavy:


    Or the old and new Spy:

    Notice the coat hanging over his legs in the new version, straight outta the in-game model, vs the old drawing.

    Heavy even sort of looks like he doing that weird forward hip position that you see in some 'amateurish' GMOD poses.
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  11. Post #211
    AD/HD's Avatar
    June 2016
    800 Posts
    I prefer the old look, the new one looks more sterile somewhat.

    Compare some frames from Blood in the Water with The Naked and the Dead.
    The new frames look much more precise, like sketching over posed 3D models.

    Look at the differences between old and new Heavy:


    Or the old and new Spy:

    Notice the coat hanging over his legs in the new version, straight outta the in-game model, vs the old drawing.

    Heavy even sort of looks like he doing that weird forward hip position that you see in some 'amateurish' GMOD poses.
    its objectively better drawing but it doesnt have as much "charm", but i would say i enjoy the newer style better overall
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  12. Post #212
    Upgrade's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,059 Posts
    I'd imagine that the massive delay allowed multiple redraws and refinements.

  13. Post #213
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,872 Posts
    The new style is less exaggerated which reflects the plot growing more tense/dark/serious.

    I mean the main villain still gives birth to a monkey moments before dying of age, but still.
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  14. Post #214
    rolfum's Avatar
    April 2016
    418 Posts
    you guys are talking about how it looks like they traced over sfm models yet you arent even looking at the most obvious ones where they just slightly changed in game poses on the robots




    not saying that I don't think the comic still looks beautiful and I hope the last comic is at least just as good as this one though
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  15. Post #215
    HUG ME I'M SOFT
    CrossNgen's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,674 Posts
    you guys are talking about how it looks like they traced over sfm models yet you arent even looking at the most obvious ones where they just slightly changed in game poses on the robots




    not saying that I don't think the comic still looks beautiful and I hope the last comic is at least just as good as this one though
    They're robots, they were probably programmed in the most basic of ways to know how to fight with certain weapons and nothing beyond that.
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  16. Post #216
    "Epic Leddit pwner :)"
    UberMunchkin's Avatar
    March 2010
    14,154 Posts
    Heavy even sort of looks like he doing that weird forward hip position that you see in some 'amateurish' GMOD poses.
    Now that you mention it, his shoulder + arm make it look like it was quickly traced over a GMod image

  17. Post #217
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    10,410 Posts
    im happy robots still got a little scene before being completely discarded forever

    and by that i mean updates you know
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  18. Post #218
    jimbobjoe1234's Avatar
    August 2012
    4,244 Posts
    Why didn't the robots come with guns when they were turned on? Kinda weird to have a robot army that isn't even equipped with weaponry.
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  19. Post #219
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    10,410 Posts
    Why didn't the robots come with guns when they were turned on? Kinda weird to have a robot army that isn't even equipped with weaponry.
    cause then the main characters would get slaughtered (and if they didn't, then the readers would ask how did gun robots not kill them already)

    Plot armor.

  20. Post #220
    Rhike's Avatar
    January 2016
    129 Posts
    Why didn't the robots come with guns when they were turned on? Kinda weird to have a robot army that isn't even equipped with weaponry.
    You need a license for those things.
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  21. Post #221
    The Mullock Project
    OneFourth's Avatar
    June 2011
    3,187 Posts
    I prefer the old look, the new one looks more sterile somewhat.

    Compare some frames from Blood in the Water with The Naked and the Dead.
    The new frames look much more precise, like sketching over posed 3D models.

    Look at the differences between old and new Heavy:


    Or the old and new Spy:

    Notice the coat hanging over his legs in the new version, straight outta the in-game model, vs the old drawing.

    Heavy even sort of looks like he doing that weird forward hip position that you see in some 'amateurish' GMOD poses.
    with the whiteboard showing a "mockup" phase i think its safe to say that they did use SFM for the first pass
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  22. Post #222
    Gold Member
    SlickBlade's Avatar
    July 2009
    5,889 Posts
    you guys are talking about how it looks like they traced over sfm models yet you arent even looking at the most obvious ones where they just slightly changed in game poses on the robots




    not saying that I don't think the comic still looks beautiful and I hope the last comic is at least just as good as this one though
    They're robots, they were probably programmed in the most basic of ways to know how to fight with certain weapons and nothing beyond that.
    I'd imagine they'd be programmed with set movements when it comes to melee use, so without their weapons they'd still attempt to.

    I wouldn't think the robots have the sudden knowledge to go have a fist fight and grapple the mercs. They're simple fire-engine machines, not advanced synths.
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  23. Post #223

    September 2015
    64 Posts
    Calling it now:    The announcer's final plan is going to be to kill Saxton Hale. Think about it-- he's the last source of Australium left on the planet. Either Saxton is going to die or his girlfriend is and they will probably take the Administrator with them.   
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  24. Post #224
    NSF Sympathizer
    Flubbman's Avatar
    January 2012
    3,889 Posts
    That reminds me, why is Hale not affected by the shortage like the other Australians?

  25. Post #225
    Contra132's Avatar
    September 2015
    644 Posts
    That reminds me, why is Hale not affected by the shortage like the other Australians?
    No idea. Maggie seems to be similarly superhuman, and she isn't affected either.

    Maybe they have Australium on their person in some way, or they've been exposed to it in a way that makes the effects permanent/longer-lasting?

  26. Post #226
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    10,410 Posts
    perhaps valve literally forgets the technicalities of the past issues. I know I did.
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  27. Post #227
    ikes's Avatar
    March 2014
    4,521 Posts
    maybe hale and maggie are just naturally strong
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  28. Post #228
    gary spivey's Avatar
    January 2013
    2,621 Posts
    No idea. Maggie seems to be similarly superhuman, and she isn't affected either.

    Maybe they have Australium on their person in some way, or they've been exposed to it in a way that makes the effects permanent/longer-lasting?
    They supplement it with spinach
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  29. Post #229
    Capt. Tin's Avatar
    August 2013
    975 Posts
    That reminds me, why is Hale not affected by the shortage like the other Australians?
    In the ultimate plot twist, it turns out Saxton Hale is not actually Australian.
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  30. Post #230
    Gold Member
    Dr. Doughnut's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,165 Posts
    That reminds me, why is Hale not affected by the shortage like the other Australians?
    Isn't he though? Maggie scolds him on the loss of a few sets of abs in one of the older comics.
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  31. Post #231
    Mort Stroodle's Avatar
    June 2014
    6,911 Posts
    Isn't he though? Maggie scolds him on the loss of a few sets of abs in one of the older comics.
    P sure that was just a joke. She was disappointed he only had a six pack and not an eight pack, but he said he never had more than a six pack, despite "trying to grow more".

  32. Post #232
    Ever been to Pandora? Its full of midgets
    Folseh's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,130 Posts
    In the ultimate plot twist, it turns out Saxton Hale is not actually Australian.
    yea...hes from Space Australia
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  33. Post #233
    jimbobjoe1234's Avatar
    August 2012
    4,244 Posts
    Honestly at this point I really hope issue 7 takes stuff seriously. I don't want it to turn out that the Administrator is actually a space alien or anything. Her main goal better legitimately be something cool and memorable rather than wacky and disappointing.
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  34. Post #234
    Tinbe's Avatar
    March 2013
    1,322 Posts
    Honestly at this point I really hope issue 7 takes stuff seriously. I don't want it to turn out that the Administrator is actually a space alien or anything. Her main goal better legitimately be something cool and memorable rather than wacky and disappointing.
    So far, the buildup on scenes with the Administrator (and Engi) has been very serious from what I have seen. I doubt they're gonna throw it out the window at the last moment. Valve can't be that crazy.
    Right?
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  35. Post #235
    "Epic Leddit pwner :)"
    UberMunchkin's Avatar
    March 2010
    14,154 Posts
    Responding to Contra132's post from here. I guess it could also go in the lore thread . Please excuse the bit of rambling.

    Not really? People can have multiple relationships over the course of their lives, and it's clear that Hale and Maggie were much younger than they are now when they were a thing.
    It's easier to say that after the heavy hinting that Helen is also Elizabeth & Emily*. When you consider her mature appearance in and around the 1800's, you have a bit of an awkward situation going on regarding age & ability. Going back when the idea of Helen and her lookalikes being relatives as opposed to the same person, it'd be more fitting for Helen & Saxton to have had a relationship; and the addition of Maggie was solely to retcon that idea (unless the TF Team are looking to make some squicky joke). They retroactively changed the continuity.

    *I can't find any primary source for this, but I swear that she did go by the name. There are numerous discussions online regarding the name Emily being used in Loose Canon, and the wiki says that it may have been a misprint since.

    That's a fair point, but it's also worth considering that the Mann Brothers didn't exhibit those symptoms either, and Australium was provided as the reason for their immortality from day 1.
    Australium wasn't presented as a fuel source of sorts up until Pyromania, I'd say it counts as the writers simply changed the function of it. Before then it was a secretive element known for having transformative properties, the intelligence it gave to people with extreme exposure allowed them to become genius innovators, which allowed Radigan (who was already smart enough to make schematics for the modern sentry guns) to make even crazier stuff. It's not that the Australium life machine, but it gave Radigan enough intellectual growth to make them in the first place (and then consider the 100 pounds of Australium that Helen gave to Radigan was hidden in caches which Dell went off to find, which eventually passed on to the Administrator). On top of that the Mann brothers are also blissfully unaware of Australium.

    The modern way of having small Australium injectors comes off like the writers needed a radically different use for Australium that both made it come off as more valuable, and to make it essential to prevent Grey & Helen from dying. But this is directly liquid Australium being pumped into the body, that's the closest you can get to exposing yourself, which is why I find it odd that they've been living for a solid while on it without any effects - And Grey was already exceptionally smart in the womb.

    Also it's a bit dodgy how the Catch-up Comic mentions it but is pretty vague about it.

    Gray's plan was to use those robots to drain Austrlaium from the blood of Australians. When he was dying, he explicitly said that the Administrator's plan was something much worse, and implored Pauling/the Mercs to stop her. I don't see that point being downplayed.
    I can't doubt that Helen may be doing something crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised if the writers have heavily changed what they previously thought of. But in regards to Grey, rewind a bit. At the end of the day Grey wants Australium. He blackmailed Zephaniah for it. He deems Mann Co to be the only redeemable thing in the badlands and a birthright due to it being his father's business, but secretly wants the Australium reserves for his own use. Yeah he had a grand scheme of his own going on (which I doubt they'll ever properly reveal), but I doubt invading Australia was part of it. He only built the leech robots because simply put, all of the other reserves were unavailable, and I'd doubt that Helen had any need to suck out Australium from bloodstreams, though she may have been interested in Australia's futuristic endeavours.

    But in regards to that, I'm saying that the TF Team's grand plan for Helen is most likely completely different now to what it was, essentially retconning it. It'll probably change from her stockpiling the Australium to combat a large threat to simply Helen killing someone.
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  36. Post #236
    Contra132's Avatar
    September 2015
    644 Posts
    It's easier to say that after the heavy hinting that Helen is also Elizabeth & Emily*. When you consider her mature appearance in and around the 1800's, you have a bit of an awkward situation going on regarding age & ability. Going back when the idea of Helen and her lookalikes being relatives as opposed to the same person, it'd be more fitting for Helen & Saxton to have had a relationship; and the addition of Maggie was solely to retcon that idea (unless the TF Team are looking to make some squicky joke). They retroactively changed the continuity.

    *I can't find any primary source for this, but I swear that she did go by the name. There are numerous discussions online regarding the name Emily being used in Loose Canon, and the wiki says that it may have been a misprint since.
    You do have a point there: that definitely puts Helen and Saxton's relationship into a different light. I mean, the Administrator debuted in the first place looking very old (I believe in the WAR update), so maybe Saxton had a cougar thing going on, but the implication of the exchange with Darling + the given backstory in the later comics would make the visual age difference between them look much larger.

    I'll concede you this one.

    Australium wasn't presented as a fuel source of sorts up until Pyromania, I'd say it counts as the writers simply changed the function of it. Before then it was a secretive element known for having transformative properties, the intelligence it gave to people with extreme exposure allowed them to become genius innovators, which allowed Radigan (who was already smart enough to make schematics for the modern sentry guns) to make even crazier stuff. It's not that the Australium life machine, but it gave Radigan enough intellectual growth to make them in the first place (and then consider the 100 pounds of Australium that Helen gave to Radigan was hidden in caches which Dell went off to find, which eventually passed on to the Administrator). On top of that the Mann brothers are also blissfully unaware of Australium.

    The modern way of having small Australium injectors comes off like the writers needed a radically different use for Australium that both made it come off as more valuable, and to make it essential to prevent Grey & Helen from dying. But this is directly liquid Australium being pumped into the body, that's the closest you can get to exposing yourself, which is why I find it odd that they've been living for a solid while on it without any effects - And Grey was already exceptionally smart in the womb.

    Also it's a bit dodgy how the Catch-up Comic mentions it but is pretty vague about it.
    Valid point- while Australium is given as the reason for Radigan's growth, it's not explicitly mentioned as a power source until the point you mention, and not tied to the Immortality Machines until the TF Comics start.

    That being said, I think that the side-effects of Australium are still being mitigated by the Immortality Machines. It's the only explanation that seems to fit at the moment.

    I can't doubt that Helen may be doing something crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised if the writers have heavily changed what they previously thought of. But in regards to Grey, rewind a bit. At the end of the day Grey wants Australium. He blackmailed Zephaniah for it. He deems Mann Co to be the only redeemable thing in the badlands and a birthright due to it being his father's business, but secretly wants the Australium reserves for his own use. Yeah he had a grand scheme of his own going on (which I doubt they'll ever properly reveal), but I doubt invading Australia was part of it. He only built the leech robots because simply put, all of the other reserves were unavailable, and I'd doubt that Helen had any need to suck out Australium from bloodstreams, though she may have been interested in Australia's futuristic endeavours.

    But in regards to that, I'm saying that the TF Team's grand plan for Helen is most likely completely different now to what it was, essentially retconning it. It'll probably change from her stockpiling the Australium to combat a large threat to simply Helen killing someone.
    Well, all we can really do is speculate on that point now. If her plan is in line with previous hints, I win- if it's something as mundane as just killing a guy, you do. The ultimate conclusion of that particular battle will have to wait another two years for TF Comic #7. :')

    I gotta say though- mad respect to you for your investment and research into the TF Lore. I don't meet a great many people who remember all the stuff that I do about the lore, much less being able to explicitly reference each and every bit of information for your arguments. I gotta concede to you here- your overall knowledge of the lore seems to be better than mine.
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