1. Post #41
    sYnced's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,506 Posts
    Human emotion should not be counted into legal decisions. It's totally fine to feel vengeful and extremely angry when evil people do evil things, but the job of the law should not ever be to try and fulfill those feelings. The law should do its best to prevent something similar from happening again. Every time you imply that the point is to serve justice, as in seeking catharsis for your anger, you contribute to a culture where finding out what type of punishment works best takes a back seat.
    you're right but a jury would decide my fate - just like in this case? i would probably be sentenced to death depending on severity.

    i'd hope that everywhere in the world would come out of the stone ages and abolish barbaric forms of punishment, so no, i'm not going to accept it. a bloodlust for human lives is just as disgusting regardless on what side of the law they're on
    i'm not picking a fight with you but,

    you have no right to act as if you are of some higher morale character because you can't accept executions
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  2. Post #42
    Duck M.'s Avatar
    August 2013
    3,846 Posts
    good sentence.

    imagine being so stupid that you think this guy deserves to live.
    Or maybe we're just discussing the complicated ethical dilemma of capital punishment as a whole? Roof is probably my least favorite human being currently living on the planet but that's not going to have any stake in that discussion.
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  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    Splash Attack's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,590 Posts
    dylann himself has said he doesn't intend to fight it, so he'll probably get pushed through and kileld fairly quickly
    He is also facing a state trial in SC that has been postponed indefinitely:
    The federal government has not killed one of its prisoners since 2003. Mr. Roof also faces a separate capital prosecution for murder in South Carolina, where no inmate has been put to death in more than five years. The state trial, initially set for Jan. 17, has been indefinitely postponed.
    This will not be quick if they ever do eventually execute him.

  4. Post #44
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    good sentence.

    imagine being so stupid that you think this guy deserves to live.
    every single person deserves to live, no matter what they've done.

    Edited:

    i'm not picking a fight with you but,

    you have no right to act as if you are of some higher morale character because you can't accept executions
    yes i do. 100%
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  5. Post #45
    sYnced's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,506 Posts
    Or maybe we're just discussing the complicated ethical dilemma of capital punishment as a whole? Roof is probably my least favorite human being currently living on the planet but that's not going to have any stake in that discussion.
    Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.

    BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED

    he killed several people

    jury sentence him to death

    CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTANDING THIS VERDICT
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  6. Post #46
    Duck M.'s Avatar
    August 2013
    3,846 Posts
    Or maybe it's not so complicated.

    he killed several people

    jury sentence him to death
    Have you considered that you're being reductionist? Nobody is questioning the severity of his crime.

  7. Post #47
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.

    BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED

    he killed several people

    jury sentence him to death

    CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTAND THIS VERDICT
    murdering someone for murder

    you're right, it's not complicated. it's stupid.
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  8. Post #48
    sYnced's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,506 Posts
    every single person deserves to live, no matter what they've done.
    Dylann Roof is sentenced to death

    get over it.

    murdering someone for murder

    you're right, it's not complicated. it's stupid.
    that's fucking logical

    if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol
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  9. Post #49
    Dennab
    July 2016
    4,340 Posts
    Dylann Roof is sentenced to death

    get over it.
    People have different opinions on the matter (that I may not necessarily support but should be heard).

    Get over it.
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  10. Post #50
    sYnced's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,506 Posts
    People have different opinions on the matter (that I may not necessarily support but should be heard).

    Get over it.
    Thank you, I'll exit the building now.

    I am refraining my remaining posts from this thread.

  11. Post #51
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    Dylann Roof is sentenced to death

    get over it.
    i am not going to, maybe you should get over that?
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  12. Post #52
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    23,275 Posts
    see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge

    if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
    if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer
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  13. Post #53
    Gold Member
    bdd458's Avatar
    March 2012
    8,462 Posts
    Dylann Roof is sentenced to death

    get over it.



    that's fucking logical

    if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol
    So you stole some stuff? Off come your hands. It's perfectly logical :)
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  14. Post #54
    Duck M.'s Avatar
    August 2013
    3,846 Posts
    that's fucking logical

    if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol
    Eye for an Eye punishment has largely been discredited as a logical and ethical form of jurisdiction since like... 5000 BC
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  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    Splash Attack's Avatar
    January 2012
    1,590 Posts
    Or maybe it's not so complicated. the jury didn't find it complicated, neither did the law.

    BUT YOU FIND IT COMPLICATED

    he killed several people

    jury sentence him to death

    CHILDREN HAVE A BETTER TIME UNDERSTANDING THIS VERDICT
    You're being incredibly dismissive and it's not conducive at all to a proper debate. Just because someone doesn't share the same ethical views on the death penalty doesn't mean they're too dumb to understand the concept.
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  16. Post #56
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    Dylann Roof is sentenced to death

    get over it.



    that's fucking logical

    if you dispute that, then you're REALLY TRYING lol
    it's the complete opposite of logical. how can you not realise that there's something fundamentally broken with your reasoning. you know that old adage two wrongs don't make a right? it's very simple. murdering someone for committing murder is still murder. it's wrong. always.
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  17. Post #57
    Gold Member
    Sherow_Xx's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,107 Posts
    you're right but a jury would decide my fate - just like in this case? i would probably be sentenced to death depending on severity.
    I'm sure judges work in a field vastly more complicated than I can imagine, and that laws, punishments and their consequences have been studied far more extensively than I can imagine, too. But still, I worry that those in charge of it all are affected by this culture as well. Sometimes I just feel as though most people have forgotten what the point of laws and punishments are. I actually genuinely don't know what to think personally, since no matter what you choose between life in prison and a death sentence, you've already given up on the prime objective of punishments. I honestly don't know, I can't even tell which one is the most 'humane'. But I just wish people would stop arguing for one over the other based on what they feel the perpetrator "deserves".
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  18. Post #58
    Gold Member
    Headhumpy's Avatar
    June 2005
    4,172 Posts
    see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge

    if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
    if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer
    There's no dilemma. It's not about suffering. It's about what is just and effective at maintaining a just society, and the answer to that is life imprisonment without parole.
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  19. Post #59
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    23,275 Posts
    So you stole some stuff? Off come your hands. It's perfectly logical :)
    to be fair that's not comparable at all. a better anaolgy would be "you stole some stuff? let's steal your stuff"
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  20. Post #60
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    see even as a morally righteous super liberal i find this situation incredibly difficult to judge

    if you give him a life sentence, he will probably suffer feeling sorry for himself
    if you give him a death sentence, he won't stuffer
    have him attend therapy while in prison. even if he doesn't change, he won't enjoy himself. the best case scenario is that he turns his beliefs around which is a win for everybody.
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  21. Post #61
    ShimTaco's Avatar
    March 2014
    1,076 Posts
    I don't think the death penalty is an eye for an eye, but rather we have to get rid of someone who is overall unfit for humanity. He's got something wrong with him. I think hes beyond treatment sadly.

    I've got nothing wrong with the death penalty, as long as it's not a "haha everyone gets one" but a long and thought out decision.

    Sucks we have to kill him, with being a martyr and such. But no matter what we do, he's going to be seen as a symbol. There really is no cheap, or logical way to solve this.
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  22. Post #62
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    23,275 Posts
    have him attend therapy while in prison. even if he doesn't change, he won't enjoy himself. the best case scenario is that he turns his beliefs around which is a win for everybody.
    i think this is probably the best course of action

    people who don't prefer punishment will sleep happy knowing that he's getting help.
    people who prefer punishment will sleep happy knowing that this guy is going to suffer for the rest of his life, whether it be self-pity or actually realising that he's a monster.
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  23. Post #63
    Gold Member
    Saxon's Avatar
    August 2006
    7,805 Posts
    Won't mourn his death but I won't celebrate it either
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  24. Post #64
    I remember when titles used to mean something, now you can get one for a dollar, this all used to be fields, get off my lawn damn kids etc.
    evlbzltyr's Avatar
    May 2006
    6,525 Posts
    have him attend therapy while in prison. even if he doesn't change, he won't enjoy himself. the best case scenario is that he turns his beliefs around which is a win for everybody.
    sorry dude but i can see into the future and i know with 100% certainty that he will never reform, and therefore must be killed. the jury said it was okay so it's not murder, it's something completely different, and good

  25. Post #65
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    I don't think the death penalty is an eye for an eye, but rather we have to get rid of someone who is overall unfit for humanity. He's got something wrong with him. I think hes beyond treatment sadly.

    I've got nothing wrong with the death penalty, as long as it's not a "haha everyone gets one" but a long and thought out decision.

    Sucks we have to kill him, with being a martyr and such. But no matter what we do, he's going to be seen as a symbol. There really is no cheap, or logical way to solve this.
    the logical way to solve this is turning around his beliefs, it's tearing down the symbol. prison and intense psychotherapy is the solution here. not murder. whether or not the therapy works is irrelevant, at least it's trying to better somebody rather than just be the arbiter of who's fit to live. which nobody has the right to do.
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  26. Post #66
    Duck M.'s Avatar
    August 2013
    3,846 Posts
    I don't think the death penalty is an eye for an eye, but rather we have to get rid of someone who is overall unfit for humanity. He's got something wrong with him. I think hes beyond treatment sadly.

    I've got nothing wrong with the death penalty, as long as it's not a "haha everyone gets one" but a long and thought out decision.

    Sucks we have to kill him, with being a martyr and such. But no matter what we do, he's going to be seen as a symbol. There really is no cheap, or logical way to solve this.
    I've always doubted that the human psychology is definitive enough to the point that nobody is beyond treatment, at least to a certain extent. The moral dilemma lies in whether or not he deserves help. I agree that he's unfit for society at large, but I fundamentally oppose capital punishment.

  27. Post #67
    Tabasco Lord
    Arc Nova's Avatar
    September 2005
    12,491 Posts
    you have no right to act as if you are of some higher morale character
    lmao clearly youve never seen rusty's posts before
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  28. Post #68

    July 2014
    2,479 Posts
    Wooo lets make him a martyr for his delusional cause.

    Justice is served!
    This argument holds no water. People just like to throw it out there because it sounds powerful. "You can't do X. It'll inspire others!" No it won't. That's not how martyrdom works. The best martyrs are the ones who have outstanding personalities that get them noticed in the first place or who die gloriously in the process of carrying out whatever it is they've set out to do. Roof has neither of these circumstances on his side.

    Being euthanized like a sick animal behind closed doors, as he will be, is particularly uninspiring.

  29. Post #69
    every single person deserves to live, no matter what they've done.
    why
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  30. Post #70
    JXZ
    JXZ's Avatar
    May 2012
    920 Posts
    calling an execution "murder" is like calling piracy "stealing": It's an attempt to prevent the discussion from becoming constructive or informative

    use proper terminology thanks
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  31. Post #71
    Blazedol's Avatar
    March 2013
    3,383 Posts
    I don't think the death penalty is an eye for an eye, but rather we have to get rid of someone who is overall unfit for humanity. He's got something wrong with him. I think hes beyond treatment sadly.
    after reading and watching his interviews i have some strong doubts with this, he seems more brainwashed or very strongly delusional rather than having some incurable mental illness.

  32. Post #72
    I remember when titles used to mean something, now you can get one for a dollar, this all used to be fields, get off my lawn damn kids etc.
    evlbzltyr's Avatar
    May 2006
    6,525 Posts
    calling an execution "murder" is like calling piracy "stealing": It's an attempt to prevent the discussion from becoming constructive or informative

    use proper terminology thanks
    arguing semantics isn't arguing at all

    use proper arguments thanks
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  33. Post #73

    July 2014
    2,479 Posts
    arguing semantics isn't arguing at all

    use proper arguments thanks
    Except what he's saying is true. The arguments about "it's barbaric", "it's murder", etc. are not valid. They're just overemotional reactions to what is a legal option under the justice system, they try to hijack the tone of the debate to that same overemotional state, and they're not constructive.

    This is such a tired debate anyway.
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  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    26,004 Posts
    alright cool i will: why does someone being sick justify killing them
    In a situation where someone is irredeemably going to be stuck in prison and has either expressed either no willingness to stay alive or no willingness to stay in prison, I think death sentence is a valid option.

    If someone wants to die because their life has practically lost all meaning other than existing inside of a jail cell then denying them death would debatably be more ethically questionable than the death penalty itself. I would have to look for specific sources but this has happened before in Belgium (prisoner being granted the right to die).

    If someone is constantly trying to get out, causing harm to everyone around them and forcing you to shove them in solitary confinement then you're both wasting space and funds keeping them securely locked up when they represent a permanent, constant danger to everyone around them, on top of the questionable ethics of keeping someone 24/7 in solitary.

    Now I'm not saying this case has either of those things, but you asked for how the sickness of an individual justify their death, and I gave you what I think are good justifications.

    There are cases where keeping people around and alive is practically worse treatment than just popping their heart with a firing squad.
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  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    Mining Bill's Avatar
    March 2011
    2,471 Posts
    Except what he's saying is true. The arguments about "it's barbaric", "it's murder", etc. are not valid. They're just overemotional reactions to what is a legal option under the justice system, they try to hijack the tone of the debate to that same overemotional state, and they're not constructive.

    This is such a tired debate anyway.
    i can't tell, are you arguing for cutting the hands of thieves off in saudi arabia or the death penalty in america?

    same thing really

  36. Post #76
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    Except what he's saying is true. The arguments about "it's barbaric", "it's murder", etc. are not valid. They're just overemotional reactions to what is a legal option under the justice system, they try to hijack the tone of the debate to that same overemotional state, and they're not constructive.

    This is such a tired debate anyway.
    yeah, because killing someone should never be seen as some clinical procedure devoid of emotional input. you're ending a human life. how can you possibly try and remove emotion from that debate?

    regardless of the emotion involved: killing for killing is not correct. there are no two ways about it.
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  37. Post #77
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    20,459 Posts
    People shocked:


    And now here come the automatic appeals. Going to take awhile before anything of substance happens.
    since he chose to self represent both times its dubious that he might appeal it but on the other hand OMG someone has to appeal since he self represented even as everybody advised him not to

    i'd rather him be put in jail for the rest of his life though.

  38. Post #78
    Plate Phelps's Avatar
    March 2012
    105 Posts
    Except what he's saying is true. The arguments about "it's barbaric", "it's murder", etc. are not valid. They're just overemotional reactions to what is a legal option under the justice system, they try to hijack the tone of the debate to that same overemotional state, and they're not constructive.

    This is such a tired debate anyway.
    One could use the same points for an opposing argument, though. A couple of questions to consider to acknowledge this argument:
    Do we really need to execute someone if they're no longer a danger to the public?
    Why DO we execute someone if they commit a heinous crime? What's the reasoning? Revenge?

    I for one see execution as unnecessary and a waste of money. Not because I'm overemotional, albeit I am concerned about the morals of the procedure, but because the reasoning that has been explained to me doesn't convince me. The prison system was designed to keep dangerous individuals out of society. Is there a difference if someone's alive in a cell or executed? I feel it shouldn't make a difference, as long as they're not seen from or heard of again, but pushing the death penalty just takes it to an unnecessary point. I say just drop em in a cell for the rest of their life and forget about em.

  39. Post #79

    July 2014
    2,479 Posts
    i can't tell, are you arguing for cutting the hands of thieves off in saudi arabia or the death penalty in america?

    same thing really
    Except it's not. I don't care what Saudi Arabia does. It's their country, and it's their business. They're not relevant here.

    Meanwhile, as an American, I'm fine with the execution of mass murderers. It does not bother me in the slightest to see Dylann Roof die.
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  40. Post #80
    Judge, Jury, & Executioner
    Rusty100's Avatar
    September 2005
    65,195 Posts
    Meanwhile, as an American, I'm fine with the execution of mass murderers. It does not bother me in the slightest to see Dylann Roof die.
    then i would argue you have an issue not dissimilar to Dylann's.
    also do you see how maybe disregarding the rest of the world and only seeing what happens in america of any importance might be a really narrow way of thinking?
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