1. Post #1761
    Gold Member
    ClarkWasHere's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,701 Posts
    Just looked it up, apparently Obsidian didn't make Oblivion.

    The last ten years of my life is a lie.
    You have to be joking.
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  2. Post #1762
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    32,490 Posts
    You have to be joking.
    he confused the developer of a good old bethesda game (fallout new vegas) with a developer of another good old bethesda game (oblivion)

    I don't blame him that much tbh. if you told me that oblivion was developed by obsidian I would believe you
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  3. Post #1763
    Killed postal with a fart once.
    gk99's Avatar
    December 2007
    17,926 Posts
    honestly if beth just backed off a little on the racism it'd probably make the choice harder
    The worst thing the empire did was banning Talos' worship, which was something that they did to make sure Skyrim was safe.

    Not to mention that's something that's very easy to do in private without getting caught if you've got a door you can lock or a basement or something.

    Edited:

    You'd think they would've included some McCarthyism-style bullshit where people are saying their neighbors are Talos worshippers just to get rid of people they don't like. Would've worked well for the Greymanes v Battleborns.

  4. Post #1764
    Gold Member
    Ganerumo's Avatar
    September 2011
    28,241 Posts
    The archetype that the Stormcloaks follow (ie seemingly good faction that turns out to be full of shit) has a problem which can't really be solved, no matter how good a writer you may be, and that's metagaming.

    The stormcloak trick works once, because on your first run through the game, unless you've spoiled yourself, you won't know shit about the civil war or the implications of an independent Skyrim, let alone deeper shit like the Thalmor's plans and whatnot. Your first impression is likely to be that the empire are useless, opressive shitters, while the Stormcloaks are the underdogs who need help.

    Of course it turns out to be the opposite and you as a player are going to retain that information across all subsequent playthroughs, which is where metagaming kicks in and the effect wears off.

    Edited:

    You'd think they would've included some McCarthyism-style bullshit where people are saying their neighbors are Talos worshippers just to get rid of people they don't like. Would've worked well for the Greymanes v Battleborns.
    It's implied that the Thalmor is doing this anyway, or that they're at least keeping tabs on Talos worshippers and regularly arresting them. Simply walking near a shrine of Talos near Whiterun is enough to get attacked by the cunts.
    Pretty sure there's even a side-quest in Markarth about ratting out talos worshippers to the Thalmor.
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  5. Post #1765
    Killed postal with a fart once.
    gk99's Avatar
    December 2007
    17,926 Posts
    he confused the developer of a good old bethesda game (fallout new vegas) with a developer of another good old bethesda game (oblivion)

    I don't blame him that much tbh. if you told me that oblivion was developed by obsidian I would believe you
    I wouldn't blame him if he hadn't said "10 years"

    That's the release date of Oblivion and up. Obsidian hadn't made a game for Bethesda until 2010.

    Edited:

    It's implied that the Thalmor is doing this anyway, or that they're at least keeping tabs on Talos worshippers and regularly arresting them. Simply walking near a shrine of Talos near Whiterun is enough to get attacked by the cunts.
    Pretty sure there's even a side-quest in Markarth about ratting out talos worshippers to the Thalmor.
    I would've preferred a little bit more focus on it to add just a little bit more depth to the civil war

    I finally for the first time did that questline this past playthrough and man was it a boring dredge that I didn't care about. It was like Operation Anchorage for FO3 but I had to phyiscally walk to the start locations.

    At least I got the achievement and never gotta do it again

  6. Post #1766
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,376 Posts
    Imagine if Solitude in Skyrim was more like this, the scale is way larger, more impressive, the city has lower, middle, upper section, it has surrounding villages, it's all lit beautifully too.



    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/JnzXn
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  7. Post #1767
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    32,490 Posts
    Imagine if Solitude in Skyrim was more like this, the scale is way larger, more impressive, the city has lower, middle, upper section, it has surrounding villages, it's all lit beautifully too.



    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/JnzXn
    that would only give you 10fps on the xbox 360 so you can't have that
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  8. Post #1768
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,376 Posts
    that would only give you 10fps on the xbox 360 so you can't have that
    PC's most likely could have been capable of running something like this, but consoles are the forefront for everything sadly, still hoping to see massive scale in open world games like this, Witcher 3 had some of that, but it wasn't crazy over the top.
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  9. Post #1769
    Killed postal with a fart once.
    gk99's Avatar
    December 2007
    17,926 Posts
    Imagine if Solitude in Skyrim was more like this, the scale is way larger, more impressive, the city has lower, middle, upper section, it has surrounding villages, it's all lit beautifully too.



    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/JnzXn
    I imagine this is similar to what Winterhold looked like prior to half the city falling off.
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  10. Post #1770
    Gold Member
    Loriborn's Avatar
    October 2009
    6,836 Posts
    The real issues I have with the way the civil war is handled is that, despite it being a great pretense for an RPG, especially one in a world as diverse as Elder Scroll's, the conflict is incredibly binary. It's very difficult, once the story comes together, to see the Stormcloaks as being justified or even understandable. Skyrim presents the civil war as being very grey, showing the Empire in a bad light at the get-go, and making the Stormcloaks seem like the good guys; for the most part, players have a historically high view of the Empire, which has, at least until this point, been portrayed as relatively "good," at least in Oblivion. In Morrowind, the Empire wasn't depicted as highly as it was in Oblivion, but it definitely came across as a beneficial force in the world.

    Skyrim wanted to portray the Empire in a way that was more obviously pessimistic, as puppets of the Thalmor oppressing a land they hardly held influence in to ensure their survival. Problem is that it's made very clear very early on that the Empire's actions were in the best interest of Skyrim, and there wasn't many other options. The game doesn't even try to drop hints or keep things subtle; instead, massive clues and outright exposition explain that the Empire is indeed still acting pretty understandably. Contrast that with how the game shoves racism and xenophobia in your face with regards to Stormcloaks, and factor in the heavy emphasis on Ulfric being a puppet/tool of the Thalmor, and less than half way through the main quest the player realizes that, for all intents and purposes, the Stormcloaks are practically villains. There are very few players in this theoretically massive conflict besides these two factions, and even then, it feels like the actual conflict isn't really ever happening.

    The world doesn't seem to be in the midst of a war tearing the fabric of society; this would be fine if, like in real life, cities far from the front-line were oblivious to the horrors of the civil war and as you moved further towards conflict, tension became more apparent. In Skyrim, there is no "front line." There is no obvious signs of planned or evolving struggle. Hearing people talk of the rumors of rebellion in large cities work because the player is either keenly aware of the civil war and can immerse themselves in the fact that the wealthy urbanites are ignorant to the turmoil they themselves have witnessed, or because the player can get hints and clues as to the extent of the conflict and where it's taking place, so as to head there and be shocked by just how different society is at the forefront of this conflict. Instead, everyone is talking about a threat/risk that isn't actually ever really depicted in any real or meaningful way.

    Plus, there's only two, maybe three, factions engaged in this conflict; considering how many lives and businesses are at stake, it would've been far nicer to see interaction between more groups, both those that have already existed in the game, and new ones that could have been added.
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  11. Post #1771
    Gold Member
    Ardosos's Avatar
    July 2009
    9,811 Posts
    I remember when skyrim came out people found these weird patterns, like some rare miscellaneous clutter items like a moth in a jar that had a dirt pattern on the lid that just happened to line up with various landmarks in a certain section of the map, and there were more than one type of these items, and last I heard nobody had solved it and everyone stopped talking about it. Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Was it just coincidence after all, or was there more to it?
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  12. Post #1772
    Gold Member
    gbtygfvyg's Avatar
    November 2006
    15,436 Posts
    I remember when skyrim came out people found these weird patterns, like some rare miscellaneous clutter items like a moth in a jar that had a dirt pattern on the lid that just happened to line up with various landmarks in a certain section of the map, and there were more than one type of these items, and last I heard nobody had solved it and everyone stopped talking about it. Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Was it just coincidence after all, or was there more to it?
    I don't think the bug-in-a-jar conspiracy was ever solved.

  13. Post #1773
    KING
    of OVER – REACTING
    “No jokes allowed!!!”
    ROFLBURGER's Avatar
    May 2009
    32,490 Posts
    I don't think the bug-in-a-jar conspiracy was ever solved.
    oh yeah that lol

    I remember it. Apparently if you put it in certain locations, it will cause the apocalypse.

    Edited:

    I mean, it could've been something but it was cut like many of the other quests that could've existed in the game. It has the prefix of "dun" which I'm assuming is someone's nickname since some of the assets in Creation Kit start with dun.

    Aftland stuff, Ansilvund stuff, Bard's Leap stuff, parts of Blackreach, Bloodlet Throne stuff, Sheogorath's Realm... seems like a bunch of detail related stuff that have some importance.

    Usually assets are labeled with their quest association. For example all the Daedric Quest assets have DA## prefixes, and all the Main Quest assets have MQ## prefixes, Civil war has CW##
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  14. Post #1774
    Qbe-tex's Avatar
    August 2013
    157 Posts
    Skyrim seems to also have some random voice-jingles that I can never fully understand their meaning. There's the calming chime when you clear a dungeon (which is really nice), but yet when passing through caves/dungeons you'll at times hear a loud noise. I always associated it with "oh it has a dragon wall" but I disprooved that yesterday so I can only assume that they're caves that have that wierd blackreach ceiling/falmers (which I haven't disprooved yet but if anyone knows what I'm talking about do you know what it means?)
    Also, just found out that the symbol right next to belethor's shop is a "Loot Here!" symbol the Thieves' Guild uses, meaning that it's a good place to rob. That's a pretty good touch but I'm kinda preplexed on how the guards or belethor never notice the symbol.
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  15. Post #1775
    Gold Member
    Samiam22's Avatar
    January 2008
    9,781 Posts
    I don't blame him that much tbh. if you told me that oblivion was developed by obsidian I would believe you
    If you know nothing about Obsidian's design philosophies, then perhaps. They wouldn't be caught dead making a game with Oblivion's narrative.

    Edited:

    PC's most likely could have been capable of running something like this, but consoles are the forefront for everything sadly, still hoping to see massive scale in open world games like this, Witcher 3 had some of that, but it wasn't crazy over the top.
    Just hope that the new generation gives some leg room, but Bethesda is going to have to do some serious optimising if they want big cities. The way their engine handles NPCs means you can't have more than 10-15 or so without starting some serious performance concerns. Something like Novigrad in TW3 would be completely unfeasible with Creation as is.
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  16. Post #1776
    Gold Member
    MrHeadHopper's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,598 Posts
    But I don't get why people call the Stormcloaks racist. Didn't Ulfric personally invite the Dark Elves to Windhelm after the Red Mountain explosion thingie? Sure it's not like he gave them a 5 star arrangement but Windhelm's an old ass city and overhauling existing or creating new housing is gonna be quite a pain in the ass, specially in the middle of a war.

    And I doubt he shoved them in some specific quarter out of hatred, but more because that's just the space they had.

    Besides it's just like two nords going around saying "heck these dark elves", not Ulfric or his dudes personally. Is there something I'm missing here?

    Even if they ultimately are xenophobic, I think I can let it slide. Anyone could be a Imperial or Thalmor spy, and it's the wills and wants of other races that put them in this shitty position to begin with.

    Edit: In the Thalmor dossier it also says that Ulfric is an asset in this current stalemate state. Pretty much the second you join the Stormcloaks you invalidate this by just kicking the Empire the fuck out. The Thalmor don't want Ulfric to win, they want him to stay in this stalemate status, and that's where (I'm assuming) their support goes, to keeping him there for as long as possible.

    Besides why is Ulfric being Thalmor-assisted important when the Empire is literally being puppeteered by the Thalmor?
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  17. Post #1777
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,252 Posts
    I imagine this is similar to what Winterhold looked like prior to half the city falling off.
    "Well, the front fell off."
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  18. Post #1778
    Gold Member

    August 2011
    5,146 Posts
    borders changed.
    This city is a ruin
    This city fell off a cliff (literally the dumbest disaster)
    What do you mean, this isn't supposed to be another village?

    Bethesda's shit, man, bethesda's shit.

    I'm pretty sure Bethesda could've recycled assets to competently get all the cities on the map. If you have some level of competence, it doesn't even look like you cheaped out.

  19. Post #1779
    Gold Member
    lintz's Avatar
    May 2006
    9,844 Posts
    i think the biggest problem with skyrim is that this entire country only has maybe 1000 people in it, let alone across all the villages and "cities"

    whiterun has like 30 people and yet it's a "strategic" position. it barely has a standing army

    one determined orc raid from any of THEIR strongholds could easily overrun it



    so what i'm saying is skyrim's scale is fucking weak

    we should be seeing cities the size of minas tirith or at least edoras and instead we pretty much get bree
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  20. Post #1780
    Gold Member
    GHOST!!!!'s Avatar
    November 2006
    7,643 Posts
    I still wish Open Cities wasn't just a mod but an actual built in part of the game, like having them be part of their own cell sucks.

  21. Post #1781
    Gold Member
    MrHeadHopper's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,598 Posts
    OC is just insanely broke though. The mod's really unstable and it shows that Beth did have a reason to not go through with it.

    Just gotta renember consoles too. They're the main reason why most things are so small in Skyrim. I can't say they should've waited another 2 years for the next gen of consoles to come out so they'd get more to work with, but it would've been interesting to look at a Skyrim that wasn't so held back.

    ...Beth is also kind of technically incompetent so uhh there's that aswell
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  22. Post #1782
    hakimhakim's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,145 Posts
    But I don't get why people call the Stormcloaks racist. Didn't Ulfric personally invite the Dark Elves to Windhelm after the Red Mountain explosion thingie? Sure it's not like he gave them a 5 star arrangement but Windhelm's an old ass city and overhauling existing or creating new housing is gonna be quite a pain in the ass, specially in the middle of a war.

    And I doubt he shoved them in some specific quarter out of hatred, but more because that's just the space they had.

    Besides it's just like two nords going around saying "heck these dark elves", not Ulfric or his dudes personally. Is there something I'm missing here?

    Even if they ultimately are xenophobic, I think I can let it slide. Anyone could be a Imperial or Thalmor spy, and it's the wills and wants of other races that put them in this shitty position to begin with.

    Edit: In the Thalmor dossier it also says that Ulfric is an asset in this current stalemate state. Pretty much the second you join the Stormcloaks you invalidate this by just kicking the Empire the fuck out. The Thalmor don't want Ulfric to win, they want him to stay in this stalemate status, and that's where (I'm assuming) their support goes, to keeping him there for as long as possible.

    Besides why is Ulfric being Thalmor-assisted important when the Empire is literally being puppeteered by the Thalmor?

    The Empire isnt being a puppet of Thalmor, Ulfric is.
    The Thalmor knows well that the Empire is planning to fight back, and just keep Ulfric as a thorn in Empire side, to keep Skyrim people divided, and prevent Skyrim people from uniting together with the Empire to fight Thalmor back.
    The perceived racism is just a minor visible complication, its not a root of the problem.


    Its a frequent occurence in this world, similar to what the USA been doing to middle east to keep them fighting each other.
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  23. Post #1783
    jonu67's Avatar
    September 2012
    4,340 Posts
    Yeah tbh, I don't care that the Stormcloaks are racist or anything, that's a small time complaint that i could easily ignore and I'm mainly a fucking High Elf player but that I know for a fact that they are unwitting pawns of the Thalmor being used as a weapon against the Empire to weaken them in certain areas and in turn ultimately strengthen the Thalmor, that's what's stopping me from actually allying with them, that and the fact they can't finish the fight with the Thalmor without the aid of the Empire, the Thalmor know that, the Empire knows that, but the Stormcloaks are blinded by patriotism and the fact that they think they are being treated unfairly, they are in some respects, but it's war, the Empire lost and had to give in to the demands set by the Thalmor, they see it as the Empire lying down and taking it up the ass, but the Empire is merely playing the long game.

    On that topic, the fact that they are unflinching and unwilling to compromise, to actually beat the Thalmor concessions had to be paid in the long run, they had the Empire by the balls and the Empire knew that, so they gave them enough to get them to back off, a combined effort is required and if that means the banning of Talos worship at least for the time in which the Thalmor have control to allow the Empire to ultimately get the upper hand in the end, then so be it.

    That's why I always pick the Imperials, not because of some petty race squabbling, but because the Stormcloaks are being used and lulled into a false sense of security and they don't even know it.
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  24. Post #1784
    Gold Member
    MrHeadHopper's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,598 Posts
    I agree with you that the stalemate status you enter the game with is definitely bad, but the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is not what the Thalmor want, which is what happens when you join the Stormcloaks. ("A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.") Obviously the Empire winning gives them more of a chance against the Thalmor and is the better choice in the long war against the elves, but the Empire has to realize the consequences of trying to subjugate the people instead of coming to proper terms with them.

    Thing is, why is it wrong for Skyrim to want and fight for its independence? Hammerfell refused to accept the Concordat and got out. Sure, Skyrim is different in that it's not a single unified province but rather several, in the form of the Holds, under the leadership of one High King, but the High King failed Skyrim in this case by just accepting the Concordat regardless of what each Jarl had to say.

    Ultimately, Skyrim becoming independent will put it at a greater risk than if the Legion took over it completely. But I still feel like the Nords deserve a chance to carve their own path after their one greatest ally throws them under the bus like this.

  25. Post #1785
    jonu67's Avatar
    September 2012
    4,340 Posts
    I agree with you that the stalemate status you enter the game with is definitely bad, but the dossier states that a Stormcloak victory is not what the Thalmor want, which is what happens when you join the Stormcloaks. ("A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.") Obviously the Empire winning gives them more of a chance against the Thalmor and is the better choice in the long war against the elves, but the Empire has to realize the consequences of trying to subjugate the people instead of coming to proper terms with them.

    Thing is, why is it wrong for Skyrim to want and fight for its independence? Hammerfell refused to accept the Concordat and got out. Sure, Skyrim is different in that it's not a single unified province but rather several, in the form of the Holds, under the leadership of one High King, but the High King failed Skyrim in this case by just accepting the Concordat regardless of what each Jarl had to say.

    Ultimately, Skyrim becoming independent will put it at a greater risk than if the Legion took over it completely. But I still feel like the Nords deserve a chance to carve their own path after their one greatest ally throws them under the bus like this.
    And they could have it, just not NOW, like I said the fact that they are unflinching and unwilling to compromise is one of the key reasons why the Stormcloaks will ultimately fail, they might be able to push the Thalmor out, they might even be able to push the Empire out, but the push will weaken the Empire and hell even the Stormcloaks enough that the Thalmor will have a tactical advantage, in this instance they might have an independent Skyrim... But for how long.

    If both sides come together, fight the Thalmor, then talks can begin about an independent Skyrim, but instead they started a Civil war during a very delicate time and in doing so became unwitting pawns for the Thalmor to use against the Empire, if that didn't happen, if the Empires plans went off without a hitch and the added benefit of NOT being weakened by a Civil War never began in the first place, then the fight against the Thalmor would in time have been far easier, the concessions would eventually be dropped, Talos worship would be reinstated and possible talks about an independent Skyrim, if such a thing was even wanted at that time could have began.

    But the Stormcloaks are a wrench in those plans, that's why I just can't possibly support them, I support their ideals, but I can't support them now.

  26. Post #1786
    Gold Member
    _Maverick_'s Avatar
    November 2010
    9,441 Posts
    Which still makes me sad we can't have a thalmor option, where we just go "fuck it." Become double agent and fight both.
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  27. Post #1787
    Gold Member
    Lord Hayden's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,646 Posts
    Every time I see one of those concepts of 'what Skyrim should've been like' I just get the urge to mod in something of that size. Hell, you can have an open world game confined to a single city with some of the surrounding landscape. I think it'd be pretty cool if Bethesda's next game was set to a 'how it should be' scale and they limited the playable world to a massive city and it's surrounding landscape.
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  28. Post #1788
    hakimhakim's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,145 Posts
    If there are no Dragonborn, then the Empire is the side which will have more luck againsts the Thalmor.

    But remember, in the grand setting, we the Dragonborn is in Skyrim. Dragonborns are like superman. If we are on Stormcloak side, then Stormcloak will win. Then Skurim can make a deal with the empire, not as a member, but as an equal.
    Then Skyrim and Empire can curb-stomp the Thalmors, just like what Pelinal did, holding the severed elf head and curse the elves, their father, and their father's father

  29. Post #1789
    Gold Member
    _Maverick_'s Avatar
    November 2010
    9,441 Posts
    Every time I see one of those concepts of 'what Skyrim should've been like' I just get the urge to mod in something of that size. Hell, you can have an open world game confined to a single city with some of the surrounding landscape. I think it'd be pretty cool if Bethesda's next game was set to a 'how it should be' scale and they limited the playable world to a massive city and it's surrounding landscape.
    I just want to add a buttload of buildings along the roads, paths and hills to give it a bigger feel
    Don't even have to be cells.
    Just pull A north Korea and have them be empty, shells littered along the sides of roads to give a sense of civilisation
    Have solitude extend all the way to that bridge, whiterun extend all the way to waterfall near riverwood.
    Make riften triple in size along with winterhold.

  30. Post #1790
    Gold Member
    MrHeadHopper's Avatar
    July 2009
    4,598 Posts
    I support their ideals, but I can't support them now.
    I'm still trying to get the full picture here. 100% behind their ideals same as you, but I wanna believe they can hold their own.

    Either way, the Nords are a super steadfast and resolute people. Something like this would have never gone down easy, and the Thalmor obviously knew since they're playing it. Taking that into account, I feel the Empire completely ignored the way Skyrim's political system functions. When they agreed to the Concordat in spite of how Skyrim operates and how the Nord people are culturally, they fucked up, and they should be held accountable for it.

    Obviously the Empire also knew to some degree since they threw money at Torygg so that he could then bribe the Holds to his side, but any Nord that stands against the Concordat wouldn't be swayed by just money, Balgruuf being the only exception since holding the central Hold puts him at a understandably delicate position.

    Either way, if the Empire is the heart, the Nords are the blood it pumps. I don't believe they're completely helpless to stand on their own the same way Hammerfell is standing after they manage to unify Skyrim.

    Edit: and yeah, the Dragonborn is practically a fucking god. He alone sways the Stormcloaks to win --which is again, not something the Thalmor want-- and he has like two dragons he can call down at any time.

  31. Post #1791
    Gold Member
    DiscoInferno's Avatar
    November 2008
    15,779 Posts
    Yeah, having a single God-like figure on your side guarantees victory. Just ask the Dunmer how badly they kicked the arses of the Argonians. After all, they had Nerevarine.
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  32. Post #1792
    jonu67's Avatar
    September 2012
    4,340 Posts
    Yeah, having a single God-like figure on your side guarantees victory. Just ask the Dunmer how badly they kicked the arses of the Argonians. After all, they had Nerevarine.
    Tbf they sort of have there own godlike entity backing them up with the Hist hivemind.

    That's still doesn't mean having a demi-god like the Dragonborn on your side guarantees victory, what the High elves lack in that particular area, they make up for in an abundance of extremely powerful magic users, of which the peoples of Skyrim lack heavily.

  33. Post #1793
    hakimhakim's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,145 Posts
    Yeah, having a single God-like figure on your side guarantees victory. Just ask the Dunmer how badly they kicked the arses of the Argonians. After all, they had Nerevarine.
    Ask Umaril how he felt about Pelinal.

  34. Post #1794
    :-)
    Phycosymo's Avatar
    December 2007
    5,089 Posts
    Yeah, having a single God-like figure on your side guarantees victory. Just ask the Dunmer how badly they kicked the arses of the Argonians. After all, they had Nerevarine.
    The Nerervarine left for a different continent and most of Vvardenfell got completely destroyed afterwards, though

  35. Post #1795
    Gold Member
    Lord Hayden's Avatar
    January 2008
    1,646 Posts
    Tbf they sort of have there own godlike entity backing them up with the Hist hivemind.

    That's still doesn't mean having a demi-god like the Dragonborn on your side guarantees victory, what the High elves lack in that particular area, they make up for in an abundance of extremely powerful magic users, of which the peoples of Skyrim lack heavily.
    Skyrim's got J'zargo though.
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  36. Post #1796
    Killed postal with a fart once.
    gk99's Avatar
    December 2007
    17,926 Posts
    That's a pretty good touch but I'm kinda preplexed on how the guards or belethor never notice the symbol.
    It'd be better if he had more shit to steal tbh.

    Edited:

    Yeah, having a single God-like figure on your side guarantees victory. Just ask the Dunmer how badly they kicked the arses of the Argonians. After all, they had Nerevarine.
    I mean if you put the player character against 1000 NPCs they could still win if they were prepped for the fight so yeah I'd say it guarantees victory.

    Hell, depending on if they're a stealth archer or not they might never even get hit because they're practically fucking invisible.

    Edited:

    OC is just insanely broke though. The mod's really unstable and it shows that Beth did have a reason to not go through with it.

    Just gotta renember consoles too. They're the main reason why most things are so small in Skyrim. I can't say they should've waited another 2 years for the next gen of consoles to come out so they'd get more to work with, but it would've been interesting to look at a Skyrim that wasn't so held back.
    After seeing FO4 and to a lesser extent Skyrim SE I'm glad they released it when they did. Apparently "next gen" means "oh we can have it run like shit as long as it looks pretty" to them.

    Edited:

    Thing is, why is it wrong for Skyrim to want and fight for its independence?
    I'd be for it if Skyrim was for the people, and not for the nords. I'd rather have worshipping one out of the nine gods banned than have Skyrim ruled by a racist people.

  37. Post #1797
    Gold Member
    GHOST!!!!'s Avatar
    November 2006
    7,643 Posts
    Honestly there's fuck all anyone can really do against the Dragonborn, especially when you take into account shouts like Slow Time and Dragon Aspect.

  38. Post #1798
    Gold Member
    DiscoInferno's Avatar
    November 2008
    15,779 Posts
    The Nerervarine left for a different continent and most of Vvardenfell got completely destroyed afterwards, though
    Exactly, there's no guarantee that the Dragonborn will be about.

    Edited:

    I mean if you put the player character against 1000 NPCs they could still win if they were prepped for the fight so yeah I'd say it guarantees victory.

    Hell, depending on if they're a stealth archer or not they might never even get hit because they're practically fucking invisible.
    You've got one person who can face a largish force with preparation and a lot of supplies. In the grand scheme of things that's not what wins a war. Put a tank against a company of musketmen and the tank would win every time. But you couldn't conquor all of Europe with a single tank, no matter the time period.

  39. Post #1799
    Gold Member
    guicool-BR-'s Avatar
    December 2006
    1,663 Posts
    Progress:


  40. Post #1800
    Gold Member
    Ghost101's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,510 Posts
    The real issues I have with the way the civil war is handled is that, despite it being a great pretense for an RPG, especially one in a world as diverse as Elder Scroll's, the conflict is incredibly binary. It's very difficult, once the story comes together, to see the Stormcloaks as being justified or even understandable. Skyrim presents the civil war as being very grey, showing the Empire in a bad light at the get-go, and making the Stormcloaks seem like the good guys; for the most part, players have a historically high view of the Empire, which has, at least until this point, been portrayed as relatively "good," at least in Oblivion. In Morrowind, the Empire wasn't depicted as highly as it was in Oblivion, but it definitely came across as a beneficial force in the world.

    Skyrim wanted to portray the Empire in a way that was more obviously pessimistic, as puppets of the Thalmor oppressing a land they hardly held influence in to ensure their survival. Problem is that it's made very clear very early on that the Empire's actions were in the best interest of Skyrim, and there wasn't many other options. The game doesn't even try to drop hints or keep things subtle; instead, massive clues and outright exposition explain that the Empire is indeed still acting pretty understandably. Contrast that with how the game shoves racism and xenophobia in your face with regards to Stormcloaks, and factor in the heavy emphasis on Ulfric being a puppet/tool of the Thalmor, and less than half way through the main quest the player realizes that, for all intents and purposes, the Stormcloaks are practically villains. There are very few players in this theoretically massive conflict besides these two factions, and even then, it feels like the actual conflict isn't really ever happening.

    The world doesn't seem to be in the midst of a war tearing the fabric of society; this would be fine if, like in real life, cities far from the front-line were oblivious to the horrors of the civil war and as you moved further towards conflict, tension became more apparent. In Skyrim, there is no "front line." There is no obvious signs of planned or evolving struggle. Hearing people talk of the rumors of rebellion in large cities work because the player is either keenly aware of the civil war and can immerse themselves in the fact that the wealthy urbanites are ignorant to the turmoil they themselves have witnessed, or because the player can get hints and clues as to the extent of the conflict and where it's taking place, so as to head there and be shocked by just how different society is at the forefront of this conflict. Instead, everyone is talking about a threat/risk that isn't actually ever really depicted in any real or meaningful way.

    Plus, there's only two, maybe three, factions engaged in this conflict; considering how many lives and businesses are at stake, it would've been far nicer to see interaction between more groups, both those that have already existed in the game, and new ones that could have been added.
    They would have had to work the civil war into the main story somehow to make it make sense, but that'd take work.