1. Post #4641
    Facepunch's Resident Game Center CX Expert
    Mio Akiyama's Avatar
    November 2010
    15,695 Posts
    Funny how there's more character development in one comic for TF2 than there was in all the videos and other shit Blizzard has done for Overwatch
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  2. Post #4642
    Call me "Sir Doctor"
    A_Guardian's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,319 Posts
    Since 2017 will mark the 10th birthday of TF2, think we'll get something special?
    One can only hope.
    Hopefully they at least remember to enable birthday mode on its birthday this year.
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  3. Post #4643
    Gold Member
    Oizen's Avatar
    August 2013
    7,237 Posts
    Funny how there's more character development in one comic for TF2 than there was in all the videos and other shit Blizzard has done for Overwatch
    Its a difference in focus.

    Tf2 is about humor and whacky antics

    Overwatch is about representation.
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  4. Post #4644
    jimbobjoe1234's Avatar
    August 2012
    4,390 Posts
    Funny how there's more character development in one comic for TF2 than there was in all the videos and other shit Blizzard has done for Overwatch
    Blizzard makes archetypes, not characters. They could never make anything nearly as endearing as TF2 and it's amazing story.
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  5. Post #4645
    Gold Member
    Zeos's Avatar
    June 2006
    18,655 Posts
    I just want an assault cannon
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  6. Post #4646
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,122 Posts
    Every important character thus far and what they're (presumably) doing and what they're known for, (possibly) living characters in bold:

    19th century Mann/Darling family:

    Zepheniah Mann - dead (exotic disease, intending to expand his arms business), CEO of proto-mann co

    Silas Mann - dead, guarding mann manor from mercenaries posthumously, Zepheniah's brother

    William Darling (Bette's father) - dead

    Bette Mann - dead (giving birth to Redmond, Blutarch and Gray)



    Gravel Wars Mann/Darling generation:

    Blutarch Mann - dead (stabbed by Gray), in hell (pushed into by RED TF), tried to take over Redmond's land using TF mercs

    Redmond Mann - dead (stabbed by Gray)(also in hell? or a ghost or what), tried to take over Blutarch's land using TF mercs

    Gray Mann - dead (disconnected from life extender by TFC Heavy), tried to take over Mann Co using his robot army and later succeeded using Olivia, intended to extract australium for his life extender from Australians' bodies

    Olivia Mann - unknown, CEO of Gray Mann Co

    Charles Darling - alive at his residence, president of Darling Zoos, needs australium for his dying animals, willing to help Hale take Mann Co back in exchange for australium



    Administrator branch/TF Industries:

    Elizabeth - dead (presumably Helen under a different name), Zepheniah's maidservant who inherited all his money and australium

    Emily - dead (presumably Helen under a different name), supplying Radigan Conagher with australium, convincing him to build a life extender for Redmond, greatly prolonging gravel wars

    Helen/Administrator - alive, mysteriously gathered almost all australium on Earth, has an hour to settle an old debt before dying, kept the fires of the Gravel Wars conflict stoked

    Miss Pauling - alive at Gray's base, sent on an australium retrieval mission by the Administrator, failed to gather any

    Poopy Joe - dead (having his rocket's australium fuel stolen by the Administrator), was to be the first American monkeynaut

    The Director - dead (shot by Miss Pauling), filmed TF mercenaries for Administrator



    Hale Family/Modern Mann Co:

    Barnabus Hale - dead, CEO of Mann Co

    Bilious Hale - dead, CEO of Mann Co

    Saxton Hale - alive at Gray's base, sent on an australium retrieval mission by Charles Darling in exchange for his help taking Mann Co back, failed to gather any australium

    Margaret - alive at Gray's base, employed by Charles Darling, not keen of Hale's plan of taking over Mann Co, has common history with Hale

    Jerry - alive at Gray's base, provided he survived the robots, Hale's plane pilot

    Mr. Bidwell - unknown, Hale's loyal assistant

    Mr. Reddy - unknown, other Hale's assistant



    Modern Team Fortress:

    TF RED team - alive, under Miss Pauling's command for no particular reason

    TF BLU team - dead (trapped in hell)

    TF BLU Engineer (Dell Conagher) - alive, maintaining Administrator's life extender

    TF RED Engineer - alive/unknown? present shaved in Naked and the Dead cover together with bearded Dell

    (this is super confusing - Jay Pinkerton says clones don't exist in comics and shorts, which perfectly contradicts most comics and shorts)



    TF family members/friends/pets/weapons:

    Scout's mom - alive, has common history with Spy

    Demoman's dad - dead

    Demoman's mom - alive, happy her son got a job (even though it's up in the air whether he gets paid)

    Eyelander - undead spirit, last seen looking after Pyro's puppy in a car in Teufort, likes to take heads

    Sniper's adoptive parents - dead, Australian rural folk

    Lar-Nah (Sniper's mom) - in space with the last australium in existence

    Bill-Bel (Sniper's dad) - alive, escaped NZ with TF's submarine, proposed building a dome around NZ and sinking it to the ocean floor, later proposed moving NZ to space, indirectly caused its demise when baby Sniper rode his rocket out to Australia

    Radigan Conagher (Engineer's grandfather) - dead (confirmed buried), invented life extenders, gunslinger, southern hospitality using australium from Emily

    Heavy's father - dead (executed by soviet govt), counter-revolutionary

    Heavy's mother - alive, somewhere in America?

    Bronislava (Heavy's sister) - alive in Paris, sightseeing, defended self against Soviets in Heavy's absence

    Yana (Heavy's sister) - alive in New York, sightseeing, defended self against Soviets in Heavy's absence

    Zhanna (Heavy's sister) - alive at Gray's base, Soldier's girlfriend, defended self against Soviets in Heavy's absence

    Archimedes (pigeon) - alive at Gray's base, Medic's pet



    Team Fortress Classic:

    TFC Scout - dead (drenched in gasoline and burned by Pyro), defending Gray's base

    TFC Soldier - dead (drenched in gasoline and burned by Pyro), defending Gray's base

    TFC Pyro - dead (killed by her own napalm grenade by Zhanna), torturing Soldier

    TFC Demoman - dead (strangled with Spy's shackles), bringing TFC Spy a phone

    TFC Heavy - dead (rapid aging after australium rush), defending Gray's base, getting revenge for his men, trying to secure life extending technology mostly for himself

    TFC Engineer (Engineer's father) - alive at Gray's base

    TFC Medic - unknown

    TFC Sniper - dead (countersniped by Sniper), defending Gray's base

    TFC Spy - dead (neck snapped by Soldier)(note that TFC Spies can fake death in-game), extracting information about administrator's whereabouts from Miss Pauling



    Other teams:

    Original BLU team - dead, employed by Blutarch Mann/employed by Administrator/her lineage

    Team Citadel - dead (killed off by TFC), employed by Administrator/her lineage

    Team Vanguard - dead (killed off by TFC), employed by Administrator/her lineage

    Team Echelon - dead (killed off by TFC), employed by Administrator/her lineage

    Gray's robot army - destroyed (by TF and Hale), defending Gray's base



    Teufort:

    Mike the Mayor - learning about Teufort in Teufort library, making horrible decisions

    Little Jack - alive in Teufort, is ok with having killed a man at his age on Christmas



    Other:

    Australians - weak and dumb due to australium depletion, used to be scientific and cultural powerhouse of the planet

    Old Nick - dead (stabbed in the neck with an icicle by little Jack), trying to abduct naughty children for his south pole arms workshop

    Merasmus - immortal, captured by police for questioning after being set up for murder of Tom Jones by Miss Pauling, enjoyed his life without Soldier for a roommate

    Tom Jones - dead (neck snapped by Soldier), lived with Merasmus



    There are some others (like Administrator's TV screen guys, George Washington etc.) that popped up once and/or didn't play much of a role, so I didn't include them. It's still possible they'll return and make a mess though, with these writers all bets are off.
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  7. Post #4647

    May 2011
    1,162 Posts
    If they ever give Pyro a name it better be a name like Sam or Alex, which could be for guys or girls
    Or you know, Robin.
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  8. Post #4648
    Facepunch's Resident Game Center CX Expert
    Mio Akiyama's Avatar
    November 2010
    15,695 Posts
    Or you know, Robin.
    Or Taylor
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  9. Post #4649
    Gold Member
    Jorori's Avatar
    October 2010
    10,753 Posts
    Or you know, Robin.
    Pyro confirmed to be Robin Walker in disguise
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  10. Post #4650
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    10,548 Posts
    saxton and maggie were beyond forgettable. I know people are happy with this issue but there's alot of flaws in my opinion.

    well no need to be a party popper.
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  11. Post #4651
    Gold Member
    gigazelle's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,610 Posts
    I have no reason to doubt that Elizabeth, Emily, and Helen are all the same person.
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  12. Post #4652
    Kitt Stargaze's Avatar
    April 2016
    997 Posts
    For a while, I thought Ms Pauling was going to be a clone of the Administrator who will take over for her when she passes. Clone maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did take over for the Administrator after she does die.
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  13. Post #4653
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,122 Posts
    I have no reason to doubt that Elizabeth, Emily, and Helen are all the same person.
    Counterpoint could be that life extenders didn't exist before Radigan Conagher, therefore Elizabeth couldn't use one.

    Let's not forget he built three extenders, and we still don't know who used the third one. Could be Gray, but I think he was a intelligent enough to design one on his own, besides I don't think it was in his interest to expose himself to Radigan or Emily. It's entirely possible Emily used the third one after Elizabeth's death and later changed names to Helen.
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  14. Post #4654
    Power Glove's Avatar
    February 2014
    362 Posts
    oh my god the barely two sentence blog post with the over 400 day late comic lmao
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  15. Post #4655
    Serge Ivanov's Avatar
    July 2016
    191 Posts
    Funny how there's more character development in one comic for TF2 than there was in all the videos and other shit Blizzard has done for Overwatch
    Blizzard just seems to be obsessed with CONSTANTLY forcing the story into the gameplay, through maps, dialogue, etc., without giving much thought to actual character development. They're trying to force the lore waaay too much.
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  16. Post #4656
    chandlerj333's Avatar
    January 2015
    1,313 Posts
    (In reply to drury)

    TJ got his neck snapped in heaven too, so either he's double dead, or he's gonna have the greatest comeback tour ever.

    Tfc spy is most likely dead, as when tfc heavy is called while he was yelling at the medic, he is told that three people were killed.

    Where is it canon that blu team is in helltower hell?

    Fred is not necessarily the guy in the engy update picture. Nor is the engineer pictured necessarily dells father.

    I would like to also rescind my statement on conager's hands. Closer inspection reveals that in most panels in which his right hand is visible, the arm appears to have a faint line drawn across it, possibly indicating that he is using a life-like prosthetic arm.
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  17. Post #4657
    ikes's Avatar
    March 2014
    4,577 Posts
    For a while, I thought Ms Pauling was going to be a clone of the Administrator who will take over for her when she passes. Clone maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did take over for the Administrator after she does die.
    why would she need to though? the gravel war is effectively over, the robot war is over, all that's left is helen's grudge and then the canon is effectively done with unless something new is brought to the table
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  18. Post #4658
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,122 Posts
    Where is it canon that blu team is in helltower hell?
    It's an asspull for the most part, a popular theory for why MvM has only RED mercs, seeing as chronologically it happened right after.

    People like it because it fills some plot holes without making too many assumptions.

    Edited:

    I have no reason to doubt that Elizabeth, Emily, and Helen are all the same person.
    Also another thing:

    Elizabeth looked like this upon inheriting australium (unknown substance at the time):



    Administrator's childhood memories of australium contradict that, unless she visited an australium pit ~50 years before inheriting it. Which is possible, but...
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  19. Post #4659
    Gold Member
    PSI Guy's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,304 Posts
    the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy? meanwhile the tf2 classes are not only killers, most of them are proud of it and all of them are assholes in some way or another. valve plays up the fact it's a multiplayer shooter for black comedy, blizzard shies away from it.

    compare a random OW line to "Ooh I'm gonna stick me thumbs in yer eyes and hang on till yer DEAD".

    man i'm almost upset this comic got me back into tf2. if they were to present info on the pyro or jungle theme updates then i might have to keep playing.
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  20. Post #4660
    EliaMoroes's Avatar
    November 2012
    6,102 Posts
    the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy?
    Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one?
    Thank you in advance.
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  21. Post #4661
    Gold Member
    Nystical's Avatar
    July 2009
    1,631 Posts
    Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one?
    Thank you in advance.
    It seems like a reasonable observation to me.
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  22. Post #4662
    chandlerj333's Avatar
    January 2015
    1,313 Posts
    Administrator's childhood memories of australium
    I interpreted that as meaning her craving revenge, not directly craving immortality and australium.

    Another plot point that hasn't been made clear is why Pauling has spent ten years working for the nutcase.
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  23. Post #4663
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    2,378 Posts
    the big differences between OW and TF2 characters is that both are ostensibly teams of killers, but the OW characters are still portrayed like Pixar heroes. none of them say anything mean or even seem like they should be on a battlefield. why the fuck is a chinese climatologist fighting a cowboy? meanwhile the tf2 classes are not only killers, most of them are proud of it and all of them are assholes in some way or another. valve plays up the fact it's a multiplayer shooter for black comedy, blizzard shies away from it.

    compare a random OW line to "Ooh I'm gonna stick me thumbs in yer eyes and hang on till yer DEAD".

    man i'm almost upset this comic got me back into tf2. if they were to present info on the pyro or jungle theme updates then i might have to keep playing.
    well, overwatch is rated T for Teen, tf2 is obviously rated M

    overwatch didn't want kids parents to not buy this game for their kids
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  24. Post #4664
    Mort Stroodle's Avatar
    June 2014
    7,202 Posts
    Can both parties stop this dick measuring contest before we have to read more, shall we say, questionable posts like this one?
    Thank you in advance.
    Comparing two online multiplayer FPS shooters with many similar mechanics and ways of telling stories is entirely reasonable, and can lead to insights about the strengths and weaknesses of both. It's reasonable TF2 discussion to look at how it compares to other games in the same vein and all the posts whining about it are detracting far more from the discussion than overwatch talk ever could.
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  25. Post #4665
    Gold Member
    Oizen's Avatar
    August 2013
    7,237 Posts
    For a while, I thought Ms Pauling was going to be a clone of the Administrator who will take over for her when she passes. Clone maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised if she did take over for the Administrator after she does die.
    Ms Pauling announcer pack when.
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  26. Post #4666
    Kitt Stargaze's Avatar
    April 2016
    997 Posts
    Ms Pauling announcer pack when.
    Well, they do have a Voice Actress for her now. When the Administrator dies they could replace her voiced lines ( or at least give an option ) with Ms Pauling voiced lines to kind of add a little bit of variation to the game.

    Not much of a variation, but little tidbits of change can add up over time if they're willing to do it.
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  27. Post #4667
    ComodoreBluth's Avatar
    September 2012
    2,209 Posts
    I doubt they'll ever do announcer packs since they would need to go back and record new lines for those packs anytime they added new announcer lines.
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  28. Post #4668
    Gold Member
    PSI Guy's Avatar
    March 2009
    6,304 Posts
    The closest we'll get is different maps having voice packs built in, like the Halloween maps or the UFO beer map. I could see a new map having Pauling voice lines, or HL1 VOX if it's TFC themed or something.
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  29. Post #4669
    HASL's Avatar
    March 2012
    91 Posts
    Just realized dell conagher confirmed for two real hands.
    But he doesn't? Like he has this scar on right hand in entire comics.

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  30. Post #4670
    Dennab
    January 2014
    102 Posts
    Just realised engie has a beard in the comics
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  31. Post #4671
    Contra132's Avatar
    September 2015
    743 Posts
    But he doesn't? Like he has this scar on right hand in entire comics.

    you beautiful genius, you, and your eye for detail
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  32. Post #4672
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    2,378 Posts
    so i sent an email to jill a while back with this content in it:

    "1. What's keeping the team from balancing weapons a little every minor update?

    Is it a lack of ideas? If so, you can easily find some in the "Weapon Fixing Megathread" on the TF2 section of Facepunch.
    Facepunch has a rating system that allows us members of the forum to instantly react to any posts we see. If having trouble getting ideas for proper balance is the issue, consulting people's reactions on some of our ideas may bolster some in the team, perhaps.
    Balancing the game a little every week would keep people playing, and would make the game fresh and interesting all the time. And, if for some reason the people do not like whatever changes are made, I'm sure the reaction will be swift and great enough that appropriate action can be done. But don't always trust the mob.

    2. Why was the beta discontinued?

    This is a question I certainly have, but I'm more interested in talking about why bringing it back is a good idea, and the changes that ought to be made for it to be meaningful to the team.
    For one, major updates in the past few years have been infamous for breaking things on day one, something I'm sure the members of the TF Team never anticipate or want to happen. If updates are released early on the beta for significant playtesting by the beta userbase, perhaps those bugs can be fixed sooner than days after the official release of the update.
    Second, it would allow the TF Team to see at a greater degree issues with balancing before those balance changes are released to the public. Of course, for this to be effective, all players involved with the beta would have to be given all the non-reskin weapons in the game, since the beta is separate from standard TF2.

    I hope this helps. Should this email be read, thank you for your time."

    I received a reply today, saying

    "Apologies for the late reply. We do read all the email we get, but it can be hard to reply to them all.

    Without getting too much into our development processes: Weapon balance is only one of a number of things we are working on currently. With our present development resources, it often makes more sense focus on certain areas as a team. Balance, in particular, requires playtesting and evaluating often noisy data, and benefits from being pushed into larger sets of changes from a development-time perspective.

    As for the TF Beta, we found that the burden of maintaining an essentially separate copy of the game universe was not the best approach. Low participation makes for less reliable feedback, and comes at a non-zero maintenance cost. We have talked about ways to introduce more lightweight beta features for balance in particular, but don't really have anything worth talking about at this point."

    thank you for sending this jill

    but this is pretty much all i expected tbh
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  33. Post #4673
    Contra132's Avatar
    September 2015
    743 Posts
    I sent an email to Eric the other day and also got a response.


    The TF Team responding to emails and keeping an eye on Github (and responding to a number of bug reports there!)...honest to God, they're actually communicating. Like, sure, they aren't posting 10-minute long dev commentaries or whatever, but they are letting people like us, this game's oldest/most dedicated fans, know that our concerns and our feedback is being heard.

    That's pretty incredible.

    I'm still a little salty about the delayed major update we were clearly meant to get (not that I lost a bet- I had fun delivering), but they're at least showing us now that we are being heard and that they do care. Here's hoping they take real note of our feedback and start moving the game in the right direction.
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  34. Post #4674
    Serge Ivanov's Avatar
    July 2016
    191 Posts
    I sent an email to Eric the other day and also got a response.




    The TF Team responding to emails and keeping an eye on Github (and responding to a number of bug reports there!)...honest to God, they're actually communicating. Like, sure, they aren't posting 10-minute long dev commentaries or whatever, but they are letting people like us, this game's oldest/most dedicated fans, know that our concerns and our feedback is being heard.

    That's pretty incredible.

    I'm still a little salty about the delayed major update we were clearly meant to get (not that I lost a bet- I had fun delivering), but they're at least showing us now that we are being heard and that they do care. Here's hoping they take real note of our feedback and start moving the game in the right direction.
    I'm glad that after the comic, people in this thread are starting to come back to their senses about valve not being the worst company ever. It honestly may have been some situation of being extremely busy over the past year or just not having enough manpower, or who knows. I still love Valve, even with their huberus popping up here and there. To anyone who's still adamant on it though, not that i'm trying to change everyone's minds, just remember, it could have been a LOT worse. Be at least somewhat thankful it's valve in control, and not some company like EA or Activision.

    Also Contra I don't really mean to say it's you in particular with this post, this is just a good example of people forgiving valve.
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  35. Post #4675
    ElderLolz's Avatar
    March 2013
    7,154 Posts
    Its a difference in focus.

    Tf2 is about humor and whacky antics

    Overwatch is about representation.
    Still no reason for the characters to be as one dimensional as possible.
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  36. Post #4676
    Gold Member
    Oizen's Avatar
    August 2013
    7,237 Posts
    Still no reason for the characters to be as one dimensional as possible.
    Quantity over Quality I suppose.

    I mean thinking about it, other than 2-3 paragraphs on the blizzard site, most OW heroes have had almost no media to flesh them out in the slightest.
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  37. Post #4677
    Serge Ivanov's Avatar
    July 2016
    191 Posts
    Still no reason for the characters to be as one dimensional as possible.
    Most characters in Overwatch can be described in one sentence. My personal favorite is Ana: "I'm retired, but now I'm not."
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  38. Post #4678
    HotrodMC's Avatar
    February 2016
    131 Posts
    Most characters in Overwatch can be described in one sentence. My personal favorite is Ana: "I'm retired, but now I'm not."
    Isn't that also Soldier 76?
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  39. Post #4679
    Blackavar's Avatar
    June 2014
    2,378 Posts
    what all did you write before the slightly silly "you're awesome" section of it you've shown here?
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  40. Post #4680
    Contra132's Avatar
    September 2015
    743 Posts
    IT'S HUBRIS

    DON'T HURT ME LIKE THIS

    Also Contra I don't really mean to say it's you in particular with this post, this is just a good example of people forgiving valve.
    I get you. I mean, I was mad pissed the day our non-update came out, but up until then and even now I've always leaned on the side of defending the TF Team. I genuinely believe they have good intentions and want to see this game grow and succeed in 2016- they just need to listen to the right people and communicate a little better about what they're going to do.

    Between their dedicated github guy (Kisak), Eric and Jill responding to emails/Github issues, I really feel like they're making an honest effort for us.

    Edited:

    what all did you write before the slightly silly "you're awesome" section of it you've shown here?
    Highlighted a number of Github threads/topics I thought needed special attention and gave my feedback on the topic of Spy balance, including how one should go about nerfing the DR if they feel it's a necessity (you and I had this discussion before- the "Marked For Death" penalty if a Spy keeps it up too long without it activating is what I proposed, so the weapon actually requires a modicum of timing and game sense to be used effectively) and how to deal with problematic weapons in relation to Spy (RTR and Diamondback being OP, YER being nigh useless, and a recommendation on how to tweak the Razorback in a way that doesn't allow Snipers to dominate the game without needing to maintain any situational awareness).
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