1. Post #281
    Gold Member
    EArkham's Avatar
    December 2012
    464 Posts
    Because those are not monkey eyes, they are human eyes. And they look weird as fuck.
    People keep saying this, but that's how the eyes are on the Poopy Joe wallpaper - white with black pupils, distinctly non-simian in the art.

    Also, it's not that simians lack the sclera anyway, it's just that it tends not to be seen unless the eyes are averted, or the animal is surprised or otherwise emotional. The eyes in the wallpaper are averted but not enough to warrant that much of the sclera showing, making them more humanlike than simian.

    Re: the cats, I didn't think they were supposed to be real cats. I always thought they were stuffed animals pinned to the mercs. Heh.
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  2. Post #282
    chandlerj333's Avatar
    January 2015
    1,471 Posts
    They were submitted alongside hair curlers and granny glasses to be a crazy cat lady set. http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/f.../?id=536945905
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  3. Post #283
    blueNES's Avatar
    April 2014
    1,849 Posts
    They were submitted alongside hair curlers and granny glasses to be a crazy cat lady set. http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/f.../?id=536945905
    I don't even think the creator was taking it seriously...
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  4. Post #284
    VX-79's Avatar
    January 2016
    419 Posts
    The absolute worst part about the cats though is the fact that they didn't accept the other version that made them black cats. Y'know, to make them at least a little fitting for Halloween. Or, god forbid, they could have made it a style.
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  5. Post #285
    Bapaul's Avatar
    March 2012
    1,427 Posts
    Is there an actual site with a list of guide lines that teaches people what is and isn't considered in the TF2 art style?

    It seems really difficult to distinguish people actually using the word with good reasoning against people who use the line when they just don't specifically like the hat/cosmetic in general, aka because opinions.
    Just try to be SVDL and you're set
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  6. Post #286
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    People keep saying this, but that's how the eyes are on the Poopy Joe wallpaper - white with black pupils, distinctly non-simian in the art.

    Also, it's not that simians lack the sclera anyway, it's just that it tends not to be seen unless the eyes are averted, or the animal is surprised or otherwise emotional. The eyes in the wallpaper are averted but not enough to warrant that much of the sclera showing, making them more humanlike than simian.

    Re: the cats, I didn't think they were supposed to be real cats. I always thought they were stuffed animals pinned to the mercs. Heh.
    Some monkeys have orange or even ember colored iris, and in that poster the head part is heavily desaturated. Anyways, they are not pure white and they look like the eyes a monkey would have, white or not. The item does not have that effect.

    Actually I don't think those eyes in the poster are supposed to be white at all. I mean, the light reflected on them is white, but the rest? Way darker than even the fur around the head, that is supposed to be light brown.

    And I know simian have sclera. The black thins in the poster are the pupils. To actually show the sclera the have to roll their eyes REALLY hard. People keep saying it because they feel it that way, no matter how many times you show them your interpretation of a desaturated concept art.
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  7. Post #287
    chandlerj333's Avatar
    January 2015
    1,471 Posts
    From my quick research, the closest primate i found that looks like poopy joe is the vervet monkey, which have the mainly dark scleras and another prominent feature.
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  8. Post #288
    Dennab
    May 2014
    2,123 Posts
    Is there an actual site with a list of guide lines that teaches people what is and isn't considered in the TF2 art style?

    It seems really difficult to distinguish people actually using the word with good reasoning against people who use the line when they just don't specifically like the hat/cosmetic in general, aka because opinions.
    I'd really like someone to make a list of every cosmetics fitting TF2 original artstyle and every other not fitting.
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  9. Post #289
    Magypsy's Avatar
    August 2014
    1,781 Posts
    I'd really like someone to make a list of every cosmetics fitting TF2 original artstyle and every other not fitting.
    That would be entirely subjective. There are some universally agreed ones, yes, but there are just as many that depend on personal opinion.
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  10. Post #290
    ikes's Avatar
    March 2014
    4,793 Posts
    From my quick research, the closest primate i found that looks like poopy joe is the vervet monkey, which have the mainly dark scleras and another prominent feature.
    talk about blueballs.
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  11. Post #291
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    Added a few more details, I will maybe add some scratches to the brims instead of having them so clean, but don't want to add too much.

    Also, played a bit with paint. At first I wanted to have all the mask painted, but I thought the actual painted part could make use of paint better. Also I don't want pink-as-hell faced pyros running around with this. The thing is that paint will only make a difference with the grin style, and i don't know if that would be ok. Anyways, here there is a paint mockup (I got one of the worst offenders to check how much it would stand out):



    Keep in mind paint won't be that bright, I have to tone it down so it blends better with the texture underneath. Still needed someone who uses 3DMax to bake me a good AO for this, PM or add me on Steam if you want to help.
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  12. Post #292
    ikes's Avatar
    March 2014
    4,793 Posts
    Added a few more details, I will maybe add some scratches to the brims instead of having them so clean, but don't want to add too much.

    Also, played a bit with paint. At first I wanted to have all the mask painted, but I thought the actual painted part could make use of paint better. Also I don't want pink-as-hell faced pyros running around with this. The thing is that paint will only make a difference with the grin style, and i don't know if that would be ok. Anyways, here there is a paint mockup (I got one of the worst offenders to check how much it would stand out):



    Keep in mind paint won't be that bright, I have to tone it down so it blends better with the texture underneath. Still needed someone who uses 3DMax to bake me a good AO for this, PM or add me on Steam if you want to help.
    make the grin style paint the grin, and do a basic style painting the face
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  13. Post #293
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    make the grin style paint the grin, and do a basic style painting the face
    The paint will take over the alpha of the texture, won't it? So will I have to set another texture for the actual phong and such (for the lighting)? I can't remember how it worked.
    I also have an extra VMT for the lens and I don't remember how many files were "too many" for the in-game importer.
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  14. Post #294
    BlueFlytrap's Avatar
    November 2012
    1,241 Posts
    So will I have to set another texture for the actual phong and such (for the lighting)? I can't remember how it worked.
    You'll have to make a flatnormal to place your specular in. The flat value of a normalmap in source is r128 g128 b248.
    Just move your specular to that normal's alpha and it should work fine with paint.
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  15. Post #295
    Captain Westcliff: Thinks Wales is an Island
    NeoDement's Avatar
    January 2006
    18,691 Posts
    no its 128 128 255, not 248
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  16. Post #296
    Gold Member
    FiveEyes's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,724 Posts
    Anyone know where the models for the Doves that fly out of the medic's ass during his MtM taunt are located?

    Thanks in advance.
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  17. Post #297
    TheJukebox's Avatar
    August 2013
    1,864 Posts
    Anyone know where the models for the Doves that fly out of the medic's ass during his MtM taunt are located?

    Thanks in advance.
    Until you hit the taunt key they're in his ass I believe.
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  18. Post #298
    Gold Member
    FiveEyes's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,724 Posts
    Har har. I should have specified where they were in the game files.
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  19. Post #299
    BlueFlytrap's Avatar
    November 2012
    1,241 Posts
    no its 128 128 255, not 248
    It's 248 for source. Tangentspace is not a universal format and that's just what valve happened to choose for the flat value.
    You're going to catch more light than you should if you just leave it pure white. The blue channel does has a purpose you know.
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  20. Post #300
    Bonk Boy! NaNaNaNaNa...
    BANG!'s Avatar
    July 2006
    967 Posts
    https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Bump_map

    Edit: actually tested, it doesn't make ANY difference if you go above 248 on the blue channel, it will be flat starting 248, so it doesn't matter if you made your flat normal 128 128 255, it will look the same as 128 128 248.
    Here's a test above the blue rectangles are rectangles in the color map, are rectangles (in the normal map) of RGB = 128 128 255, the rest of the texture is RGB 128 128 248, and on top a rectangle of RGB 128 100 255, just for good measure and making sure the normal map shader is working.



    Normal map:


    Color map:


    Link for the compiled material/model if you want to test it.
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  21. Post #301
    BlueFlytrap's Avatar
    November 2012
    1,241 Posts
    Part of the function of the blue channel is source' barely noticable parallax so if your basetexture is all 1 color of course you won't notice it.
    And even then yeah it still matters.

    Blue channel set proper.
    Blue channel white.
    Ignore the colored specularmap.

    I don't see the point of arguing against using the proper value for something just because it's 5 seconds faster at most.

    And since it's a flat normal you don't have to worry about visual artifacts from s3, dxt, bc, whatever you want to call block compression. Only thing that matters compression wise is the alpha and it's compressed the same either way.
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  22. Post #302
    xASTRIXx's Avatar
    September 2011
    789 Posts

    Currently unclaimed
    dont ever use smudge for hair, that's not how hair works. Look at the tf2 hairs that were currently added (not counting the witcher promo)
    also folds aren't like that. If you want to do some okay folds, use black and white paint strokes and liquify them
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  23. Post #303
    Gold Member
    gigazelle's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,681 Posts
    -snip-
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  24. Post #304
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    You'll have to make a flatnormal to place your specular in. The flat value of a normalmap in source is r128 g128 b248.
    Just move your specular to that normal's alpha and it should work fine with paint.
    So do I have to create a TGA with the normal blue (plain) and have its alpha being the alpha I currently use for specular (metal effects and shine)?
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  25. Post #305
    BlueFlytrap's Avatar
    November 2012
    1,241 Posts
    So do I have to create a TGA with the normal blue (plain) and have its alpha being the alpha I currently use for specular (metal effects and shine)?
    Pretty much. I'm not sure how the tf2 importer handles it but phong lights are sampled from the normalmap alpha by default anyway.
    If it has a tickbox for $basemapalphaphongmask or something just don't hit that in this case.


    Actually I have a question of my own.
    Does the tf2 importer allow the use of $phongexponenttexture? I don't imagine it would, given that would be another potential texture to include, but I'm curious all the same.
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  26. Post #306
    BADGERPIG
    blaholtzen's Avatar
    May 2010
    4,900 Posts
    -snip-

    actually, while im already posting, i managed to break the C-drive on my main computer so I'll probably not be reachable on steam since m on this calculator of an excuse for a computer that needs its full processing power for basically anything

    and i stll haven't found out for sure, but there's still a risk that all my texture psds are lost cause im an idiot who doesn't back sht up despite having a TB worth of external storage space and a proper dropbox subscription...

    the moral of the story is always make backups!
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  27. Post #307
    blueNES's Avatar
    April 2014
    1,849 Posts
    -claimed-
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  28. Post #308
    kingkiller's Avatar
    September 2014
    113 Posts
    motive a Huntress Wizard and before my pyro concept


    i think.just delete some thing on
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  29. Post #309
    Pagliacci's Avatar
    November 2013
    1,473 Posts
    motive a Huntress Wizard and before my pyro concept


    i think.just delete some thing on
    I dont get it
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  30. Post #310
    Gentleman Cat's Avatar
    March 2013
    2,230 Posts
    motive a Huntress Wizard and before my pyro concept


    i think.just delete some thing on
    You just keep on adding on more superfluous details and referencing things in your concept that other people don't get. Simple is better.
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  31. Post #311
    kingkiller's Avatar
    September 2014
    113 Posts
    You just keep on adding on more superfluous details and referencing things in your concept that other people don't get. Simple is better.
    ok
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  32. Post #312
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    So I managed to get paint applied, even if the specular is not working that good, but I have got a problem. My mask has a lighter edge detail around metal parts, that was made with a soft light grey layer over the color of those parts. If I make those parts paintable it is not lighter anymore but darker instead, as there is no color under it, or just white so you can't see it. How could I achieve a similar effect while using paint then? Can I get paint to be weaker on those edge places and so it looks lighter by tweaking the alpha, using a greyscale?
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  33. Post #313

    July 2013
    1,632 Posts
    Can I get paint to be weaker on those edge places and so it looks lighter by tweaking the alpha, using a greyscale?
    darken those areas on the paint map to weaken paint's effect.
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  34. Post #314
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    darken those areas on the paint map to weaken paint's effect.
    Did that, the problem is that pint got too desaturated. Solved it making the white base texture of the painted areas a bit darker, and those edges are still lighter using the old soft light layer. This way paint is also less vibrant and not popping into your eyes like crazy.
    Talking about this, I think I got the paint just as I wanted, being able to even use gold, lime and pink without too much eyesore. What do you think?



    Also, the unpainted version is way lighter that i would like, but trying different base tints over the gray base and comparing them to the original color I had originally before trying the paintable version is a pain in the ass and not too productive. I am using the option "translucent" for paint in the importer, does anyone know how does it apply the paint over the base texture? I mean, does it "multiply" it over, or just set a translucent percentage like in a layer of Photoshop? If so, does anyone know the percentage? It would be easier for me to get my desired color by a few tries in Photoshop if I knew that.
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  35. Post #315
    never releases anything ever
    Blaco's Avatar
    September 2012
    660 Posts
    Does the tf2 importer allow the use of $phongexponenttexture? I don't imagine it would, given that would be another potential texture to include, but I'm curious all the same.
    You can specify an exponent texture, and enable rimlight masking, but albedo tinted phong, or just phong tinting in general isn't available.

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  36. Post #316

    July 2013
    1,632 Posts
    exponent texture is 256x256 max, btw.

    Did that, the problem is that pint got too desaturated. Solved it making the white base texture of the painted areas a bit darker, and those edges are still lighter using the old soft light layer. This way paint is also less vibrant and not popping into your eyes like crazy.
    Talking about this, I think I got the paint just as I wanted, being able to even use gold, lime and pink without too much eyesore. What do you think?



    Also, the unpainted version is way lighter that i would like, but trying different base tints over the gray base and comparing them to the original color I had originally before trying the paintable version is a pain in the ass and not too productive. I am using the option "translucent" for paint in the importer, does anyone know how does it apply the paint over the base texture? I mean, does it "multiply" it over, or just set a translucent percentage like in a layer of Photoshop? If so, does anyone know the percentage? It would be easier for me to get my desired color by a few tries in Photoshop if I knew that.
    it multiplies over at default settings.

    translucent has nothing to do with paint.
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  37. Post #317
    Gold Member
    gigazelle's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,681 Posts
    Did that, the problem is that pint got too desaturated. Solved it making the white base texture of the painted areas a bit darker, and those edges are still lighter using the old soft light layer. This way paint is also less vibrant and not popping into your eyes like crazy.
    Talking about this, I think I got the paint just as I wanted, being able to even use gold, lime and pink without too much eyesore. What do you think?



    Also, the unpainted version is way lighter that i would like, but trying different base tints over the gray base and comparing them to the original color I had originally before trying the paintable version is a pain in the ass and not too productive. I am using the option "translucent" for paint in the importer, does anyone know how does it apply the paint over the base texture? I mean, does it "multiply" it over, or just set a translucent percentage like in a layer of Photoshop? If so, does anyone know the percentage? It would be easier for me to get my desired color by a few tries in Photoshop if I knew that.
    Ah, you must be using the multiplicative paint method instead of the additive paint method. Try this:

    - Make the paintable area 100% black in your diffuse
    - Make the most vibrant paintable areas white in your alpha channel, and medium gray where you don't want the paint to be as bright. Unpaintable areas should be 100% black in your alpha channel.
    - Set 'Blend Tint over base alpha' to 1 in the item importer

    That should get you closer to the results you're looking for.
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  38. Post #318
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    Ah, you must be using the multiplicative paint method instead of the additive paint method. Try this:

    - Make the paintable area 100% black in your diffuse
    - Make the most vibrant paintable areas white in your alpha channel, and medium gray where you don't want the paint to be as bright. Unpaintable areas should be 100% black in your alpha channel.
    - Set 'Blend Tint over base alpha' to 1 in the item importer

    That should get you closer to the results you're looking for.
    I already kinda got the paint as I wanted but yeah, I will give this a try too learn more ways. I have a doubt about this method: does it show any details below the paint? Because the times I used blend 1 the paint was not letting anything that where bellow (AO bake shadows, details I had, etc) to show up.

    Will try it on the paintable grin style and see how it goes though.
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  39. Post #319
    Gold Member
    gigazelle's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,681 Posts
    I already kinda got the paint as I wanted but yeah, I will give this a try too learn more ways. I have a doubt about this method: does it show any details below the paint? Because the times I used blend 1 the paint was not letting anything that where bellow (AO bake shadows, details I had, etc) to show up.

    Will try it on the paintable grin style and see how it goes though.
    You put the bake and any other details in the alpha channel, then use the tint base color rgb to determine the default color. This means the default color of paintable areas will be nowhere to be found in your texture.
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  40. Post #320
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,662 Posts
    You put the bake and any other details in the alpha channel, then use the tint base color rgb to determine the default color. This means the default color of paintable areas will be nowhere to be found in your texture.
    Yeah, did the same with the translucent option, I left the paintable area in the diffuse with just the AO bake and then put the right RGB value in order to get the default color.



    However I get those fugly compression effects because of my AO, maybe lowering contrast would save them, but I will wait in case someone manages to get a better one fro me using something that is not Blender. Also, is that texture too pixelated, or is it normal to be like that? I guess the game resizes it into 256, but I don't know if it is too much for this kind of detail (grin decal)
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