1. Post #4321
    Gold Member
    Rageguy's Avatar
    May 2011
    4,782 Posts
    like an new flamethrower that does less damage but has airblast, while stock wont have airblast, tbh i just dont like airblast.
    we'll see
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Optimistic Optimistic x 2 (list)

  2. Post #4322
    Barbarossa's Avatar
    December 2015
    65 Posts
    like an new flamethrower that does less damage but has airblast, while stock wont have airblast, tbh i just dont like airblast.
    Honestly, I think removing the airblast is a very bad idea. In fact, I think having any flamethrower without the airblast, or at least a similar alt-fire method, would not work. As we've seen with the Phlogistinator and the Backburner, having 'no airblast' as a downside just makes it a free upgrade for people who aren't good at using it, and it encourages - if not outright rewards - W+M1 play.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 New Opera Austria Show Events Agree Agree x 13Disagree Disagree x 3 (list)

  3. Post #4323
    Gold Member
    LondierX's Avatar
    December 2012
    1,304 Posts
    In fact, I think having any flamethrower without the airblast, or at least a similar alt-fire method, would not work. As we've seen with the Phlogistinator and the Backburner, having 'no airblast' as a downside just makes it a free upgrade for people who aren't good at using it, and it encourages - if not outright rewards - W+M1 play.
    This is just wrong altogether. W+M1 play is still punishable without airblast, and the fact that you think the lack of airblast REWARDS W+M1 play is absolutely ridiculous. Any idiot can just move forward while holding the fire key, but they'd just be killed on sight.

    Players prior to the Pyro update have survived without airblast, they used proper positioning, ambush tactics, and general chaos to their advantage.

    Airblast gives the Pyro the capability to compete with his 2 midrange threats, the Soldier and the Demoman, take movement away from/enviornmentally KILL enemy players at the proper range, and extinguish friendly teammates.

    The Pyro was meant to be strong at close range, and with airblast, the pyro's ability to effectively counter Soldiers/Demos with proper airblast play gets rid of his main weakness against 2 classes: Mid to Long range combat, forcing his enemies to either play smarter(shoot floor/wall near the Pyro if at all possible) or switch to their hitscan weapons
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Agree Agree x 4Disagree Disagree x 2 (list)

  4. Post #4324
    Moonrat's Avatar
    August 2015
    154 Posts
    This is just wrong altogether. W+M1 play is still punishable without airblast, and the fact that you think the lack of airblast REWARDS W+M1 play is absolutely ridiculous. Any idiot can just move forward while holding the fire key, but they'd just be killed on sight.

    Players prior to the Pyro update have survived without airblast, they used proper positioning, ambush tactics, and general chaos to their advantage.

    Airblast gives the Pyro the capability to compete with his 2 midrange threats, the Soldier and the Demoman, take movement away from/enviornmentally KILL enemy players at the proper range, and extinguish friendly teammates.

    The Pyro was meant to be strong at close range, and with airblast, the pyro's ability to effectively counter Soldiers/Demos with proper airblast play gets rid of his main weakness against 2 classes: Mid to Long range combat, forcing his enemies to either play smarter(shoot floor/wall near the Pyro if at all possible) or switch to their hitscan weapons
    I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

    Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

    Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

    This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. (Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  5. Post #4325
    Barbarossa's Avatar
    December 2015
    65 Posts
    I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

    Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

    Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

    This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. (Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)
    Thanks for summing that up, that's pretty much exactly what I meant. Simply having no airblast doesn't promote W+M1, but having the choice of either a less powerful flamethrower with an airblast or a more powerful flamethrower without one, that's what gives those people essentially a free upgrade.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 New Opera Austria Show Events Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  6. Post #4326
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,232 Posts
    I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

    Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

    Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

    This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. (Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)
    I think airblast lowers the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level but that's just me.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 New Opera Czech Republic Show Events Agree Agree x 8Dumb Dumb x 2Funny Funny x 1Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  7. Post #4327
    Dennab
    November 2014
    458 Posts
    not to mention its extremely annoying.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Dumb Dumb x 3Agree Agree x 1Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  8. Post #4328
    The Mullock Project
    OneFourth's Avatar
    June 2011
    3,063 Posts
    what about a cooldown for airblast that increases if you try to chain it? so you could reflect one rocket, maybe dodge the second, and maybe reflect the third
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 11Agree Agree x 4Artistic Artistic x 1 (list)

  9. Post #4329

    May 2011
    104 Posts
    What about Airblast(AB) Jumping?

    Would that work?

    And I think that having a default with regular TF2 stats and a Flametrower with stronger airblast would be quite interesting with AB jumps.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Serbia Show Events Disagree Disagree x 2 (list)

  10. Post #4330
    Gold Member
    Frying Dutchman's Avatar
    November 2009
    3,865 Posts
    what about a cooldown for airblast that increases if you try to chain it? so you could reflect one rocket, maybe dodge the second, and maybe reflect the third
    The big downgrade of already doing that as a pyro is that most if not all of your ammo is gone if you keep spamming the airblast.
    Plus by the second blast the pyro should have closed the gap between themselves and the enemy significantly.

    Most of the hate against the airblast from people is that it affects their movement, they can get completely blocked or stuck in a corner by a pyro spamming their blast.
    A solution to counter this that the airblast does less knockback after each blast in rapid succession.
    For example, first airblast = full knockback
    second 2/3rd knocback
    third 1/3rd knockback
    fourth and onwards no effect at all.

    What this does is counter frustration from opposing players by being it less intrusive on their movements.
    It helps counter bad behaviour from pyros as well, teaches them not to spam and conserve their ammo better and use their airblast with more thought.

    How much it knockbacks requires testing, as well as upping the ammo cost from 25 to 30 or even 35 could probably solve most if not all annoyances from players facing the blast while keeping the ability perfectly viable to use for the pyro.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Netherlands Show Events

  11. Post #4331
    Gold Member
    NitronikALT's Avatar
    September 2010
    10,910 Posts
    Wasn't airblast thoroughly discussed before?

    I remember y'all coming to the conclusion of either leaving it as-is without the player knockback abilities, or just slowing down its refire rate
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 8.1 Firefox Italy Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  12. Post #4332
    Nicknine's Avatar
    November 2014
    493 Posts
    Wasn't airblast thoroughly discussed before?

    I remember y'all coming to the conclusion of either leaving it as-is without the player knockback abilities, or just slowing down its refire rate
    Current airblast firing interval is 0.75s but I have a feeling it used to be longer in live TF2.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Russian Federation Show Events

  13. Post #4333
    Su_Bu's Avatar
    May 2015
    103 Posts
    What if the pyro has to charge the airblast by holding down the right mouse button, releasing it to do the airblast? A very short duration to charge but enough that it means the player needs to time and plan the blast rather than it become a spontaneous thing to spam.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 5 (list)

  14. Post #4334
    iiboharz's Avatar
    December 2014
    138 Posts
    Leave the airblast as it is, it's fine.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 7Disagree Disagree x 1 (list)

  15. Post #4335
    Gold Member
    Dr. Doughnut's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,241 Posts
    If you make any changes to airblast, please make it so it pushes players back in a matter that makes sense, instead of the same exact arc that ignores all existing forces.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 8 (list)

  16. Post #4336
    Gold Member
    Rageguy's Avatar
    May 2011
    4,782 Posts
    https://www.twitch.tv/rageguy583

    devs are playing, feel free to watch or join, we'll have a another dev moderating/anwsering questions in the chat soon.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Winner Winner x 2 (list)

  17. Post #4337
    Ott
    Gold Member
    Ott's Avatar
    June 2012
    6,627 Posts
    How about making airblast push the player back the same distance it pushes enemies back? And somehow make sure that players can't go faster (overall) by airblasting behind them repeatedly.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 5 (list)

  18. Post #4338
    Gold Member
    Dr. Doughnut's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,241 Posts
    I think just making act like a rocket launcher-type blast works well. It still knocks players back, but adds some variance based on the angle you hit them with it.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  19. Post #4339
    Nicknine's Avatar
    November 2014
    493 Posts
    If you make any changes to airblast, please make it so it pushes players back in a matter that makes sense, instead of the same exact arc that ignores all existing forces.
    It's kind of already like that, unlike live TF2 our airblast doesn't cancel all momentum.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Russian Federation Show Events Informative Informative x 5Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  20. Post #4340

    May 2011
    104 Posts
    didn't the Tough Break update remove the Stunlock effect of the Airblast, so you can airstrafe when you are blasted? Or did I miss something?

    Also, would someone be kind enough to list the current arsenal of TF2C?

    I am not sure but it is Stocks and some new stuffs like the Nailgun, Poacher's Rifle flaregun and some other things, right?

    Does the Scattergun have a dual barrel fire mode or is that something I would like it to have but it does not have it?

    I mean the Concept of it is fraking awesome! dual Barreled scattergun.

    Does it have different animations?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Serbia Show Events Disagree Disagree x 3Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  21. Post #4341

    August 2015
    33 Posts
    We should never mention the tough break update ever again. It's an abomination.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete iPhone Safari Show Events Dumb Dumb x 9Funny Funny x 1 (list)

  22. Post #4342
    Gentleman Cat's Avatar
    March 2013
    2,453 Posts
    didn't the Tough Break update remove the Stunlock effect of the Airblast, so you can airstrafe when you are blasted? Or did I miss something?
    Only on the second airblast.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  23. Post #4343

    November 2015
    135 Posts
    I have captured some of the important shots from the devstream.




    And....... Vip maps
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Winner Winner x 4Useful Useful x 1 (list)

  24. Post #4344
    Gold Member
    Rageguy's Avatar
    May 2011
    4,782 Posts
    I have captured some of the important shots from the devstream.




    And....... Vip maps
    might wanna fix those
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events

  25. Post #4345
    Barbarossa's Avatar
    December 2015
    65 Posts
    What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 New Opera Austria Show Events Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  26. Post #4346
    Gold Member
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    3,725 Posts
    What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.
    Its like a portal gun... as it has teleporter halves in the front
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Android Chrome Spain Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  27. Post #4347
    Doctor_Lazlo's Avatar
    November 2014
    800 Posts
    What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.
    Gravity gun.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome Show Events Disagree Disagree x 4Agree Agree x 2 (list)

  28. Post #4348
    rolfum's Avatar
    April 2016
    851 Posts
    What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.
    I never realized how much I would want the BFG in deathmatch until now, maybe a one shot deal that also destroys weapons in your proximity, leaving you vunurable after use?

    It's pretty obviously either a gravity gun or a portal gun though because of that handle thats on the side
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome Show Events Disagree Disagree x 5 (list)

  29. Post #4349
    Cufflux's Avatar
    April 2013
    1,280 Posts
    I have captured some of the important shots from the devstream.
    Blaholtzen you sexy motherfucker. That is solid gold.

    Side note: The things sticking out are definitely the end parts of a teleporter.
    Warp gun maybe?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 4Friendly Friendly x 2Informative Informative x 1 (list)

  30. Post #4350

    November 2014
    387 Posts
    It looks to be inspired from the Gravity Gun and the Displacer Cannon, adjusted to fit TF2's artstyle obviously. I really love the makeshift styled weapons.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  31. Post #4351
    The_Rad's Avatar
    January 2015
    169 Posts

    Well, well, well look what we got here...
    Edit:
    So you considered the Dynamite for demo or just for DM?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 8.1 Chrome Costa Rica Show Events Late Late x 3Optimistic Optimistic x 1 (list)

  32. Post #4352
    Dennab
    November 2014
    458 Posts

    So what exactly is this, like can we have some dev input on what this might be? my idea is its (as stated above) a warp gun similar to the one in UT.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome Show Events Late Late x 4Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  33. Post #4353
    iiboharz's Avatar
    December 2014
    138 Posts
    those wiseau screenshots tho 👀
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Chrome United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  34. Post #4354

    November 2015
    135 Posts

    So what exactly is this, like can we have some dev input on what this might be? my idea is its (as stated above) a warp gun similar to the one in UT.
    Telemax displacer canon
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Android Chrome Show Events Agree Agree x 3Winner Winner x 1 (list)

  35. Post #4355
    alphablaster2's Avatar
    June 2016
    81 Posts


    A poster for you



    And something extra
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 8.1 Chrome United States Show Events Winner Winner x 19 (list)

  36. Post #4356
    Gentleman Cat's Avatar
    March 2013
    2,453 Posts
    Might want to tag those with the [t] tags.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 8 (list)

  37. Post #4357
    Rotzloeffel's Avatar
    August 2013
    489 Posts
    It might be told alread but can somebody tell me what to pick in the BETAS settings in the source SDK Base 2013? The instruction tells that I have to pick "beta_test" but I can't find that in the list:
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Firefox Show Events

  38. Post #4358
    taz0's Avatar
    November 2014
    1,959 Posts
    snip
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 10 Firefox United Kingdom Show Events

  39. Post #4359
    Nicknine's Avatar
    November 2014
    493 Posts
    It might be told alread but can somebody tell me what to pick in the BETAS settings in the source SDK Base 2013? The instruction tells that I have to pick "beta_test" but I can't find that in the list:
    Instructions are outdated, you don't need to switch to any branch anymore.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 7 Firefox Russian Federation Show Events Friendly Friendly x 2Informative Informative x 1Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  40. Post #4360
    MrDrToaster's Avatar
    November 2014
    145 Posts
    Just a quick question, if the Direct Hit or any other rocket launcher is implemented into TF2C will they receive a completely new rocket model to go with them?
    Like this thing: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...tails/?id=4029
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Windows 8 Chrome United States Show Events Agree Agree x 3Useful Useful x 1 (list)