1. Post #4961
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    What's the problem? That's how they have to work, theres no other way. Scale is simply resizing the shape but Inset, what you're actually accomplishing, moves the vertices inwards along averaged directions which creates a new shape of different proportion.
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  2. Post #4962
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    What's the problem? That's how they have to work, theres no other way. Scale is simply resizing the shape but Inset, what you're actually accomplishing, moves the vertices inwards along averaged directions which creates a new shape of different proportion.
    The moment I use Scale it starts to misalign the wireframe of my objects, and I want it to be super accurate where the edge that's becoming scaled should keep the proportions on all sides, rather than making one side longer and other side shorter, you can see that with extrude, it keeps it proportional.
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  3. Post #4963
    hippowombat's Avatar
    March 2014
    3,530 Posts
    I was able to follow a tutorial series designed for UE4 for volume rendering, pretty slick stuff.



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  4. Post #4964
    Still Not GLOD
    WrathOfCat's Avatar
    May 2013
    1,116 Posts
    Put a light in it
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  5. Post #4965
    SHADERS
    Legend286's Avatar
    October 2008
    9,663 Posts
    There is one thing that's been bothering me in 3ds max for some time now, it's the difference when using Scale tool versus Extrude on edges.



    If I choose to Scale prior to using Extrude it will give me wrong proportions, but if I use Extrude and then use the Scale it will be fine, it tends to cause mess on rectangular objects. Extrude edges gives me correct proportions that I'm looking for.
    THAT is what you're annoyed by? And not the fact that half the fucking tools in max are retarded like this? Fuck sake, every time I use bevel and the geometry isn't basically planar it fucking breaks on me... Sometimes bevel doesn't fucking bevel and adds an edge loop instead...

    Max sucks, I should relearn my workflow in Cinema 4D or something else.
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  6. Post #4966
    Gold Member
    ThePanther's Avatar
    June 2005
    2,801 Posts
    Toolbag 3 is amaaazing

    tested a cached cloth sim, Alembic export from Blender. It's beautiful.

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  7. Post #4967
    hippowombat's Avatar
    March 2014
    3,530 Posts
    Put a light in it
    Sadly the shader is unlit, the lighting is simulated and only takes one directional light vector into account. The main feat of it being in Unreal is having the texture itself raymarched in a volume.
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  8. Post #4968
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    The moment I use Scale it starts to misalign the wireframe of my objects, and I want it to be super accurate where the edge that's becoming scaled should keep the proportions on all sides, rather than making one side longer and other side shorter, you can see that with extrude, it keeps it proportional.
    You're not understanding my meaning. You are trying to do an inset with the scale tool. They are totally different operations.

    Scale is literally scaling the shape you have on whatever axes you specify. The original polygons' shapes are the same exact proportions. It will not ever do an inset.

    An Inset shrinks (or use Outline to grow) a shape, but it changes the shape's proportions to make even distances to the original edges. You are thinking about it as proportional edge lengths, but you should be thinking about the shapes.

    Extrude in the way you are doing it is essentially an inverse of an inset operation, because you're pushing out all those faces along their normals, just like how inset will pull faces in or outline will push them out (this is probably the tool you want to use instead).

    I can make visual examples if necessary

    Edited:

    THAT is what you're annoyed by? And not the fact that half the fucking tools in max are retarded like this? Fuck sake, every time I use bevel and the geometry isn't basically planar it fucking breaks on me... Sometimes bevel doesn't fucking bevel and adds an edge loop instead...

    Max sucks, I should relearn my workflow in Cinema 4D or something else.
    Bevel has never not functioned for me and it shouldn't break on you for no reason. Everything works a specific way. You might not like it bbut from Max 7 to 2017 I have never faced problems with tools as long as I knew how they function. I would love to see how you're using it though.
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  9. Post #4969
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    It's just, when I want to tweak the edges, scale them, they will stop being aligned with the other edges that I extruded, so I have to do it by hand otherwise so it's all aligned perfectly. That only seems to happen with rectangular objects, but square or sphere it's all good.
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  10. Post #4970
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    Can you upload a video of what you're trying to do.
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  11. Post #4971
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    Can you upload a video of what you're trying to do.
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  12. Post #4972
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,269 Posts
    Select the edges you want to scale, then add a push modifier. Awkward work around but that will do it.

    It really bugs me that the push modifier isn't just a scaling mode or option in the Editable Poly rollout.
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  13. Post #4973
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    Select the edges you want to scale, then add a push modifier. Awkward work around but that will do it.
    That's actually working really well, I kinda wish scale could have an option to do this. But thanks nonetheless.
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  14. Post #4974
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,269 Posts
    3ds Max is a solid modelling tool but you'll often come across oversights like that.
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  15. Post #4975
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    That's actually working really well, I kinda wish scale could have an option to do this. But thanks nonetheless.
    This is not how scaling works by design. There is no option for this because you are trying to cut a tree with a welder.

    Take the time to read the documentation if you are confused about a tools function. This is not an oversight, that's ridiculous. Moving vertices along a tangent direction is not the same kind of operation as a scale and it is a mistake to relate them. Scale and proportion are not the same and their difference in terms of transformation operations for 3D let alone the entire art world cannot be understated.


    I present how to do what you're trying to do:
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  16. Post #4976
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,269 Posts
    That doesn't work with hard edges like in the example he gave. No need to be an ass about it.
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  17. Post #4977
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    So you literally went into asshole mode to show me this?
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  18. Post #4978
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    I'm not and that literally was the example he gave
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  19. Post #4979
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,269 Posts
    I'm not and that literally was the example he gave
    Try doing it without chamfers then.
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  20. Post #4980
    Gold Member
    zerosix's Avatar
    November 2010
    6,427 Posts
    guys doggy is 100% in the right here. you're confusing two different functions. the scale tool does not do what you want it to do in this situation... because that's not what it does
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  21. Post #4981
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    Try doing it without chamfers then.
    The chamfers were extraneous detail, originally I did it without chamfers. My mouse got hidden but when I zoomed in on the top view post move you can see that the 45 degree angle was perfectly preserved.

    Edited:

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  22. Post #4982
    Gold Member
    Wickerman123's Avatar
    February 2009
    6,269 Posts
    -snip-

    I'm not trying to blame anyone for not understanding something. I was just ignored at first when suggesting to refer to the documentation and kept trying to stress that this is a misunderstanding of function not a tool being flawed. Its no biggie.

    Your edges may have freaked out because you needed to weld verts. You can also do the same operation on individual vertices. I just showed edge loops for simplicity. Or use the push modifier on a selection as was mentioned. There's a ton of ways.
    I was using the scale tool, not the move tool, hence the fuckup.

    Sure you're right about scale being the incorrect term but when it comes to the tool's usual use in modelling, you can't blame someone for misunderstanding the technicalities.

    Edited:

    This whole confusion sums up why I hate the course I'm on and the fact I technically have a degree in this field.
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  23. Post #4983
    Gold Member
    DOG-GY's Avatar
    June 2009
    15,638 Posts
    I'm not trying to blame anyone for not understanding something. I was just ignored at first when suggesting to refer to the documentation and kept trying to stress that this is a misunderstanding of function not a tool being flawed. Its no biggie.

    Your edges may have freaked out because you needed to weld verts. You can also do the same operation on individual vertices. I just showed edge loops for simplicity. Or use the push modifier on a selection as was mentioned. There's a ton of ways.
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  24. Post #4984
    Weakling Member
    Grindigo's Avatar
    August 2013
    2,355 Posts
    Using move tool and setting the constraint to normal actually does what I wanted to, the push modifier does too, except doing what you showed is more flexible, so I'll try using that then.
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  25. Post #4985
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,897 Posts


    AND NOW THE SAVE FILE IS JUST GONE.

    FUCK
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  26. Post #4986
    Gold Member
    Uberslug's Avatar
    January 2005
    5,372 Posts
    Holy shit.

    Did you have backups?
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  27. Post #4987
    Penis Architect
    Paul-Simon's Avatar
    November 2008
    14,960 Posts


    AND NOW THE SAVE FILE IS JUST GONE.

    FUCK
    Pls don't be lost
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  28. Post #4988
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,897 Posts
    No i did it in blender, and it's backed up in 4 different places in 3 different buildings. It's just the maya scene that was fucked

    And now after 4 more hours of applying textures, i go to render and it just does this



    Nothing on google, nothing on the official documentation about what this is.

    32 gigs of RAM isn't enough i guess. It's only 35 million faces, one 4k HDRI and about 800 megs of textures, all of which unreal 4 can handle in realtime. But industry leader Maya says fuck off with me and my unreasonable requests of a static mesh and an HDRI skydome.

    So yeah, Maya continues to be a raging antagonist to all that is good. I'm just going to slug back scotch and play overwatch until i pass out.
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  29. Post #4989
    Gold Member
    Theman!'s Avatar
    June 2005
    615 Posts
    I seem to get a ridiculous amount of crashes in 3ds 2017 when using a combination of axis constraints + vertex snap, across both my home computer and all the machines at my uni.
    Anyone experienced anything similar?
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  30. Post #4990
    Gold Member
    RoboChimp's Avatar
    October 2011
    5,878 Posts
    No i did it in blender, and it's backed up in 4 different places in 3 different buildings. It's just the maya scene that was fucked

    And now after 4 more hours of applying textures, i go to render and it just does this



    Nothing on google, nothing on the official documentation about what this is.

    32 gigs of RAM isn't enough i guess. It's only 35 million faces, one 4k HDRI and about 800 megs of textures, all of which unreal 4 can handle in realtime. But industry leader Maya says fuck off with me and my unreasonable requests of a static mesh and an HDRI skydome.

    So yeah, Maya continues to be a raging antagonist to all that is good. I'm just going to slug back scotch and play overwatch until i pass out.
    You are using View port 2.0 right? What are your viewport settings and how much RAM does your video card have?
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  31. Post #4991
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,897 Posts
    Nah, happens when i go to render, and that's on CPU and motherboard RAM. Somehow i break the Embree accelerator when i go to render, 'cause i'm just so cool i break shit that nobody has ever seen broken before
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  32. Post #4992
    Gold Member
    RoboChimp's Avatar
    October 2011
    5,878 Posts
    Nah, happens when i go to render, and that's on CPU and motherboard RAM. Somehow i break the Embree accelerator when i go to render, 'cause i'm just so cool i break shit that nobody has ever seen broken before
    Ah ok, does it work ok with Arnold and Mental ray renderer?
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  33. Post #4993
    Glod Member
    Dennab
    March 2009
    11,826 Posts
    No i did it in blender, and it's backed up in 4 different places in 3 different buildings. It's just the maya scene that was fucked

    And now after 4 more hours of applying textures, i go to render and it just does this



    Nothing on google, nothing on the official documentation about what this is.

    32 gigs of RAM isn't enough i guess. It's only 35 million faces, one 4k HDRI and about 800 megs of textures, all of which unreal 4 can handle in realtime. But industry leader Maya says fuck off with me and my unreasonable requests of a static mesh and an HDRI skydome.

    So yeah, Maya continues to be a raging antagonist to all that is good. I'm just going to slug back scotch and play overwatch until i pass out.
    You can try referencing individual objects. It'd be a pain but doing seperate files for the wheels, body etc etc and referencing them into one file might alleviate some of your issues.

    Also select your camera and increase the near clipping plane to stop zfighting.
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  34. Post #4994
    Gold Member
    Alex141's Avatar
    April 2007
    799 Posts
    If Maya crashes sometimes you can get lucky by checking %appdata% temp folders, I can't remember where Maya stores it, but I remember once I had a Maya file that would crash every time I used the bevel tool. Had to faff about with finding crash files to eventually get it working. Fun times.
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  35. Post #4995
    Gold Member
    Lazore's Avatar
    November 2008
    3,943 Posts
    Got myself a surface pro for some Zbrushing and maybe learn some mattepainting
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  36. Post #4996
    Gold Member
    zerosix's Avatar
    November 2010
    6,427 Posts
    If Maya crashes sometimes you can get lucky by checking %appdata% temp folders, I can't remember where Maya stores it, but I remember once I had a Maya file that would crash every time I used the bevel tool. Had to faff about with finding crash files to eventually get it working. Fun times.
    appdata\local\temp

    99% of the time it will create a working save from seconds before the crash here I've found
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  37. Post #4997
    Glod Member
    Dennab
    March 2009
    11,826 Posts
    appdata\local\temp

    99% of the time it will create a working save from seconds before the crash here I've found
    His error didn't save it there. Usually it'll say "Attempting to save in appdata\local\temp" but his straight up crashed
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  38. Post #4998
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,897 Posts
    Well i rebuilt it now, so it's irrelevant.

    Alright so what's happening is that when it goes to subdivide the mesh for Vray, it eats up all 32 gigs of ram and dies.



    I've killed the settings down as far as it took to render, and it ain't pretty



    This is the absolute maximum threshold of the subdiv settings that doesn't overload my computer and kill it. Plus the substance to vray transition isn't great after all



    The rods are set to .5 roughness, but still come off as polished up like jewelry, yet the tire wear, which is set lower comes off as matte. i don't get it. There's all sorts of detail in there that's just being eaten by vray too. THere's spottings, pitting and all sorts of oil and grease in the diffuse that's just gone, even on such low contrast areas as the giant fucking slabs of uniform steel like the rods. Yet the much weaker oil staining on the piston rods is strong as hell. I don't get it

    really not sure what to do now
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  39. Post #4999
    Gold Member
    Frying Dutchman's Avatar
    November 2009
    3,865 Posts
    Render in sections and composite?
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  40. Post #5000
    Gold Member
    Trilby Harlow's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,897 Posts
    Render in sections and composite?
    It's functionally one object. I'm not sure it's possible to section it off without making the light feel really bad because it doesn't self shadow right, let alone the huge technical spiderweb that'd be
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