1. Post #121
    Masterofstars's Avatar
    March 2014
    1,422 Posts
    When a nation is deliberately bombing innocent civilians, whether the use of 'genocide' to describe the mass killings against civilians is accurate or not is the last thing I am really concerned about.
    You've contradicted yourself so many times.

    "They're deliberately targeting civilians!"

    "How"

    "Because they're hunting down Hamas!"

    "So they're targeting Hamas"

    "NO THEY'RE TARGETING CIVILIANS!!!!"
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  2. Post #122
    I really like to make music and do audio work, contact me if you need some yes?
    Tsyolin's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,175 Posts
    I hate war but it's really hard to hate Israel for all of this. All the civilian casualties are bothering me a lot and I can attribute that to over exaggerated Israeli retaltion but I can't see how Hamas isn't at fault. This isn't the fault of the citizens of Gaza, they're just a shield for Hamas at this point. Hamas doesn't care about the well being of the citizens, they just want to push their own agenda.

    Before this even happened Egypt was trying to broker a peace between the two, a peace that pretty much everyone (including a lot of the other Arab nations) except Hamas agreed upon. Hamas is to be held accountable for bringing this upon their people, and then using them as a way to lure the media into sympathizing with them and/or criticizing the IDF.
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  3. Post #123
    Gold Member
    Jenkem's Avatar
    June 2009
    2,619 Posts
    For those of you crying out "hurr civilian casualties" let me cite you a statistic...admittedly sourced from Wikipedia but the ratio is about right anyway. I took some liberties with the numbers and tried to keep the averages from being maxed out so the numbers aren't too biased towards my point.

    In the first World War, a little more than 41% of all deaths were innocent civilians; that's an awful lot just by itself. Then, in World War 2 military casualties amounted to somewhere like 16 million, whereas civilian casualties were more like 45 million. That's not quite three times as many people dying unrelated to the causes driving the war. Add to that it was an "open" conflict as opposed to chasing down shadowy people who don't fight like normal soldiers, and suddenly it makes sense why civilian death toll will inevitably be so massive. Depending on how you figure the numbers, in Korea, the military deaths were to the tune of between 500,000 to one million casualties, versus two and a half times that in civilian losses. Vietnam? About a million total military-related deaths, easily double than in civilian deaths.

    I just mentioned all the major US/Western conflicts and funny how all of them with exception to the first had civilian deaths well in excess of those who died in service. The evil Jews are obviously trying to murder random civilians, hence why the historical records indicate this is part and parcel of any conflict.

    No one is saying killing innocents is good, acceptable, or "justified" by anything going on over there. It is a consequence of combat, especially in dense urban areas where enemies may be within yards of unrelated people. The exact same thing is happening in Afghanistan...the only difference is that the population density doesn't typically result in mass accidental killings, and it's not as popular to criticize the US versus getting onto Israel's case. I also fail to see how it's a "scapegoat" to "hide" behind when they're responding to people trying to bomb, oh look, civilian areas with rocket assaults.

    Also, lulz at Starpluck for referring to the Hamas naval commandos who got smoked as being "boys." I guess the guns and uniforms they were wearing were for a Halloween party.
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  4. Post #124

    January 2008
    1,539 Posts
    When a nation is deliberately bombing innocent civilians, whether the use of 'genocide' to describe the mass killings against civilians is accurate or not is the last thing I am really concerned about.
    why do you use genocide then

    we fully well know what that term means

    a genocide is something like the holocaust where there is a deliberate and systematic plan to exterminate an entire ethnic or religious group. israel is not doing any of those things

    to say that israel is committing genocide is a disgustingly shallow accusation to make
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  5. Post #125
    Dennab
    November 2006
    3,152 Posts
    For those of you crying out "hurr civilian casualties" let me cite you a statistic...admittedly sourced from Wikipedia but the ratio is about right anyway. I took some liberties with the numbers and tried to keep the averages from being maxed out so the numbers aren't too biased towards my point.

    In the first World War, a little more than 41% of all deaths were innocent civilians; that's an awful lot just by itself. Then, in World War 2 military casualties amounted to somewhere like 16 million, whereas civilian casualties were more like 45 million. That's not quite three times as many people dying unrelated to the causes driving the war. Add to that it was an "open" conflict as opposed to chasing down shadowy people who don't fight like normal soldiers, and suddenly it makes sense why civilian death toll will inevitably be so massive. Depending on how you figure the numbers, in Korea, the military deaths were to the tune of between 500,000 to one million casualties, versus two and a half times that in civilian losses. Vietnam? About a million total military-related deaths, easily double than in civilian deaths.

    I just mentioned all the major US/Western conflicts and funny how all of them with exception to the first had civilian deaths well in excess of those who died in service. The evil Jews are obviously trying to murder random civilians, hence why the historical records indicate this is part and parcel of any conflict.

    No one is saying killing innocents is good, acceptable, or "justified" by anything going on over there. It is a consequence of combat, especially in dense urban areas where enemies may be within yards of unrelated people. The exact same thing is happening in Afghanistan...the only difference is that the population density doesn't typically result in mass accidental killings, and it's not as popular to criticize the US versus getting onto Israel's case. I also fail to see how it's a "scapegoat" to "hide" behind when they're responding to people trying to bomb, oh look, civilian areas with rocket assaults.

    Also, lulz at Starpluck for referring to the Hamas naval commandos who got smoked as being "boys." I guess the guns and uniforms they were wearing were for a Halloween party.
    Mentioning global scale total wars should not be relevant in a situation like this. Tossing WW1, WW2 and other conflict statistics into a much much smaller but equally complex situation is pretty pointless.

    Completely a strawman argument.
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  6. Post #126
    Star Extraordinaire
    Blazyd's Avatar
    May 2011
    4,369 Posts
    Tossing WW1, WW2 and other conflict statistics into a much much smaller but equally complex situation is pretty pointless.
    It's not pointless when it proves his point.
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  7. Post #127
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    Again, how are they deliberately bombing innocent civilians, and what proof backs up this claim? Remember just because innocents die doesn't mean they're being targeted.
    The culmination of numerous human rights investigations in the past decades, whistleblowing from former IDF soldiers and Israel's past rhetoric. The field-investigation are the primary means of discerning the truth as Israel likes to lie a lot, but even then investigations can be thwarted by Israel's insistence on preventing foreign press/NGOs from entering Gaza.

    The Goldstone report was a major one. But the fact that Goldstone (a Zionist) recanted his findings under pressure from accusations of being a "traitor Jew" makes it a less useable source, even though it was a panel and not a single-led effort. But it essentially unveiled the true extent of Israel's deliberate bombing of civilians, not a single person from the panel that ultimately created the report recanted their findings however so its validity still stands.

    While the most recent round collective punishments/indiscriminate bombings was the 2009 Gaza War, I quickly found a 2006 article highlighting the same thing (full investigative report in source) during Israel's Lebanon conflict.

    Israel's targeting of ambulances/hospitals, and lastly, Israel's collective punishment blockade on Gaza in itself is highly-indicative of a behavior intended to collectively punish civilians. Don't assess Israel by what they say, but by what they do.
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  8. Post #128
    Dennab
    November 2006
    3,152 Posts
    It's not pointless when it further proves his point.
    I literally can't wrap my head around how it could even remotely reinforce his point.

    None of the wars he mentioned have a similar situation. Israel's periodic bombardment of gaza (and hamas bombardments of Israel) over the last 50 years is not comparable to any of those conflicts.
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  9. Post #129
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    It's not pointless when it proves his point.
    And yet even with the entire world at war and with some nations being bent on killing civilians, Israel still has a higher civilian casualty rate, so what is his point?
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  10. Post #130
    Gold Member
    Ignhelper's Avatar
    November 2009
    12,456 Posts
    Starpluck, I can understand your hate for Israel when civilians get killed in firefights, I'm pissed as well, those civilians don't deserve to be killed because of the war. Its a fucking terrible thing, and I dislike Israel for that. But you as a mod, just doesn't seem to care when there are news of Israelis dying, it doesn't matter whether they are military or not, but you just avoid the whole thing by saying 'Oh because its all Israel fault blah blah'.

    Time and time again you have criticised Israel's actions, but not Hamas. I know mods can have their own opinions, but you've never look at things from the Israelis point of view. I know it can be very hard knowing that Israel is a rather modern nation with people living pretty well off, but the people are regardlessly still stuck in the conflict as well. Whether you're Hamas, palestinian, an Israeli, or a IDF member, this war is fucking terrible. So you wouldn't mind seeing the palestinians living in Israel living in fear as well? You have always avoided the topic of Hamas, and always find a way to pinpoint all blame towards Israel. So you'll be happy if an Israeli dies from a rocket fired by Hamas?

    I know Israel has done a shitload of many wrong things, its not the best in human rights, and has been known for human rights violation, but at least, I see that in this conflict, there are no winners. IDF fights, they kill civilians, Hamas fights, they kill civilians. Ultimately, each side shout death chants against each nation, and people all over the world call for the death of either countries in either side. The Palestinians get called out by the hardcore jewish extremist calling for extermination, and the hardcore palestinians calling for the extermination of the country of Israel.



    Look, I know people disagree with you, but the way you have been posting and being a mod, isn't far off from the Israel Government in my view point. You had been rather aggressive towards some posters, and people who flamed back towards you, you simply just ban them. I wouldn't call it a very good move If I were you, honestly, and you never seem to take control of the situation. So please, I'm trying to help you, just don't be so aggressive and have a little bit of viewpoint. Maybe you could chat with some people from both sides of the conflict to understand the situation better.

    Personally I don't agree with Israel's moves, having to send in troops is not a very good move, not only is it bad for the residents of Gaza, but also it's troops as well. You think a country would be happy when parents complain about their children being conscripted, and then in a way, 'send to die?' I can understand why Israel might want to make a move, seeing as they probably feel that the airstrikes weren't doing as much to deter, and they probably want to end it quickly.

    In a way its both better and bad, With Airstrikes, you still can't see who the people you want to target are, they are just infrared blips on the cameras, so ground combat probably could minimize civilian casualties. But at the same time, they might be caught in the crossfire and civilians can still die.

    If Hamas as IDF has said, using civilians as human shields, they sorta won. IDF is in Hamas territories, and if that is Hamas's plans, then they can pretty much ensure a high amount of civilian deaths, and push all the blame to the IDF. But if it isn't, I doubt there is going to be a problem for them, since If Israel goes in and clear them out and get out, they can still resurface after this battle and restart the whole thing again.

    I think Israel knows this isn't gonna end Hamas once and for all, but its either to scare Hamas into a truce that they'll follow, or just to disrupt them so that they'll take some time to fight again. Hamas doesn't seem that competent with the rockets, but they are pretty good when it comes to urban warfare and CQC, so they be able to take some IDF with them. I'm pretty sure both sides know that this battle isn't gonna last for long, but this whole fuckup in Israel and Palestine is going to last for quite a bit of time.

    I just hope, that all this can end quickly, and to have peace. It'll be such a wonderful thing if this region were to have peace, I just want to see both Palestinian people and Israelis living side by side in peace.
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  11. Post #131
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    Also, lulz at Starpluck for referring to the Hamas naval commandos who got smoked as being "boys." I guess the guns and uniforms they were wearing were for a Halloween party.
    What are you talking about?

    Edited:

    Nevermind, not going even bother replying to him. Just remembered Jemkem is a batshit in the head (no need to explain).
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  12. Post #132
    Star Extraordinaire
    Blazyd's Avatar
    May 2011
    4,369 Posts
    His point is that in those wars he mentioned, it involved one uniformed military force versus another uniformed military force. This is not the case in the Israel/Hamas conflict. Hamas blends in with the populace, making it harder to distinguish a fighter from a civilian.

    This is why the civilian death rate is much higher because it's harder to distinguish the enemy from an innocent civilian.
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  13. Post #133
    Dennab
    November 2006
    3,152 Posts
    Lots of text

    Going into a thread to say "Starpluck sucks as a mod!!!!" is different from him banning someone outright for disagreeing with him.

    You can hate Starplucks opinions all you want but that is just a silly thing to do on facepunch of all places.

  14. Post #134
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    Starpluck, I can understand your hate for Israel when civilians get killed in firefights, I'm pissed as well, those civilians don't deserve to be killed because of the war. Its a fucking terrible thing, and I dislike Israel for that. But you as a mod, just doesn't seem to care when there are news of Israelis dying, it doesn't matter whether they are military or not, but you just avoid the whole thing by saying 'Oh because its all Israel fault blah blah'.

    Time and time again you have criticised Israel's actions, but not Hamas. I know mods can have their own opinions, but you've never look at things from the Israelis point of view. I know it can be very hard knowing that Israel is a rather modern nation with people living pretty well off, but the people are regardlessly still stuck in the conflict as well. Whether you're Hamas, palestinian, an Israeli, or a IDF member, this war is fucking terrible. So you wouldn't mind seeing the palestinians living in Israel living in fear as well? You have always avoided the topic of Hamas, and always find a way to pinpoint all blame towards Israel. So you'll be happy if an Israeli dies from a rocket fired by Hamas?

    I know Israel has done a shitload of many wrong things, its not the best in human rights, and has been known for human rights violation, but at least, I see that in this conflict, there are no winners. IDF fights, they kill civilians, Hamas fights, they kill civilians. Ultimately, each side shout death chants against each nation, and people all over the world call for the death of either countries in either side. The Palestinians get called out by the hardcore jewish extremist calling for extermination, and the hardcore palestinians calling for the extermination of the country of Israel.



    Look, I know people disagree with you, but the way you have been posting and being a mod, isn't far off from the Israel Government in my view point. You had been rather aggressive towards some posters, and people who flamed back towards you, you simply just ban them. I wouldn't call it a very good move If I were you, honestly, and you never seem to take control of the situation. So please, I'm trying to help you, just don't be so aggressive and have a little bit of viewpoint. Maybe you could chat with some people from both sides of the conflict to understand the situation better.

    Personally I don't agree with Israel's moves, having to send in troops is not a very good move, not only is it bad for the residents of Gaza, but also it's troops as well. You think a country would be happy when parents complain about their children being conscripted, and then in a way, 'send to die?' I can understand why Israel might want to make a move, seeing as they probably feel that the airstrikes weren't doing as much to deter, and they probably want to end it quickly.

    In a way its both better and bad, With Airstrikes, you still can't see who the people you want to target are, they are just infrared blips on the cameras, so ground combat probably could minimize civilian casualties. But at the same time, they might be caught in the crossfire and civilians can still die.

    If Hamas as IDF has said, using civilians as human shields, they sorta won. IDF is in Hamas territories, and if that is Hamas's plans, then they can pretty much ensure a high amount of civilian deaths, and push all the blame to the IDF. But if it isn't, I doubt there is going to be a problem for them, since If Israel goes in and clear them out and get out, they can still resurface after this battle and restart the whole thing again.

    I think Israel knows this isn't gonna end Hamas once and for all, but its either to scare Hamas into a truce that they'll follow, or just to disrupt them so that they'll take some time to fight again. Hamas doesn't seem that competent with the rockets, but they are pretty good when it comes to urban warfare and CQC, so they be able to take some IDF with them. I'm pretty sure both sides know that this battle isn't gonna last for long, but this whole fuckup in Israel and Palestine is going to last for quite a bit of time.

    I just hope, that all this can end quickly, and to have peace. It'll be such a wonderful thing if this region were to have peace, I just want to see both Palestinian people and Israelis living side by side in peace.
    Less opinion, more facts please. I really don't care for your analysis on Hamas' "advanced ability to CQC" and other rambling.
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  15. Post #135
    Masterofstars's Avatar
    March 2014
    1,422 Posts
    Nevermind, not going even bother replying to him. Just remembered Jemkem is a batshit in the head (no need to explain).
    Best mod, doing great.

    Someone says something and your response is "he's completely insane guys!"
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  16. Post #136
    Dennab
    November 2006
    3,152 Posts
    Best mod, doing great.

    Someone says something and your response is "he's completely insane guys!"
    If he's referring to the little kids killed on the beach as Hamas naval commandos then there is something wrong with him.

    I think that is what he is referring to.
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  17. Post #137
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    His point is that in those wars he mentioned, it involved one uniformed military force versus another uniformed military force. This is not the case in the Israel/Hamas conflict. Hamas blends in with the populace, making it harder to distinguish a fighter from a civilian.

    This is why the civilian death rate is much higher because it's harder to distinguish the enemy from an innocent civilian.
    That's not how Israeli-Palestinian conflict is like at all. It was not until yesterday when Israeli troops landed on ground. All the killings, airstrikes and deliberate collective punishment does not stem from a "lack of uniform"


    You falsely paint the picture that there have been troops in ground in Gaza or there's constant air surveillance ongoing that is simply unable to differentiate between who is Hamas and who is not, when in reality this demonstrates a massive misunderstanding of the conflict. It rarely has anything to do with uniform, of which Hamas does actually possess. Israel bombs crowded streets from above to target a single Hamas activist inside some car, trust me, there is very little misidentification going on here.

    If Hamas had uniforms 24/7, will the Gaza blockade end? Further, why did Israel bomb the power plant? Was it because they could not tell if it was "hamas" or not due to a lack of uniform?
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  18. Post #138
    I really like to make music and do audio work, contact me if you need some yes?
    Tsyolin's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,175 Posts
    That's not how Israeli-Palestinian conflict is like at all. It was not until yesterday when Israeli troops landed on ground. All the killings, airstrikes and deliberate collective punishment does not stem from a "lack of uniform"


    You falsely paint the picture that there have been troops in ground in Gaza or there's constant air surveillance ongoing that is simply unable to differentiate between who is Hamas and who is not, when in reality this demonstrates a massive misunderstanding of the conflict. It rarely has anything to do with uniform, of which Hamas does actually possess. Israel bombs crowded streets from above to target a single Hamas activist inside some car, trust me, there is very little misidentification going on here.

    If Hamas had uniforms 24/7, will the Gaza blockade end? Further, why did Israel bomb the power plant? Was it because they could not tell if it was "hamas" or not due to a lack of uniform?
    The blockade will never end until Hamas is no longer in power. The Israelis are too afraid of the possibility of weapons, bombs, rockets, etc. being brought in for Hamas to use against them.
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  19. Post #139
    Gold Member
    Ignhelper's Avatar
    November 2009
    12,456 Posts
    Less opinion, more facts please. I really don't care for your analysis on Hamas' "advanced ability to CQC" and other rambling.
    I've never said the word 'advanced', I said they were better. Its plainly obvious. If you compare their terrible rockets which are pretty darn inaccurate but a good psychological warfare weapon, you'll know that they kill more people with getting close to the IDF than to shoot rockets into Israel.

    Look here. Of the so many years Hamas has fired rockets, 10,138 rockets were fired(excluding mortars and others) and only 28 people died, while only 1971+ people got injured. If you call that accurate then something is wrong with you, because that is pretty shit.

    As compared to fighting in build up areas, 332 Israeli deaths in the conflict of the Second Intifada, including all the other operations, and in the 2008 gaza war, 750 rockets including mortars where fired, and only three civilians died. Since you want sources, here:
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...917231764.html
    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-...7-Dec-2008.htm
    http://www.btselem.org/statistics
    While some of my sources were from wikipedia, and it might not be that reliable, It still is rather reliable, as compared to other sources. But really, are you seriously comparing a gun, used in a warzone, to a crudely made rocket used in a large civilian population?
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  20. Post #140
    Gold Member
    Ignhelper's Avatar
    November 2009
    12,456 Posts
    What are you talking about?

    Edited:

    Nevermind, not going even bother replying to him. Just remembered Jemkem is a batshit in the head (no need to explain).
    Also, the video seems pretty clear they aren't just 'boys'
    NSFW on the first video. No gore, just fighting.
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  21. Post #141
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,055 Posts
    The blockade will never end until Hamas is no longer in power. The Israelis are too afraid of the possibility of weapons, bombs, rockets, etc. being brought in for Hamas to use against them.
    "You will starve until you cease hostilities" just makes people fight harder, there's never been any empirical evidence for that tactic working in a modern conflict. This just leads to a cycle of Palestinians losing faith in what little government they have for the inability to enact change and siding with terrorists because at least they're hurting the people who oppress them, with that being used as a justification for further oppression. It's a more direct version of the equally fallacious sanction-as-regime-toppler tactic. Nobody shuns their allies at the behest of an oppressive larger enemy because they made a promise.

    Israel needs to actually make some sort of concessions that have possible negative repercussions to them or they're not going to make any progress on this.
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  22. Post #142
    I really like to make music and do audio work, contact me if you need some yes?
    Tsyolin's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,175 Posts
    "You will starve until you cease hostilities" just makes people fight harder, there's never been any empirical evidence for that tactic working in a modern conflict. This just leads to a cycle of Palestinians losing faith in what little government they have for the inability to enact change and siding with terrorists because at least they're hurting the people who oppress them, with that being used as a justification for further oppression. It's a more direct version of the equally fallacious sanction-as-regime-toppler tactic. Nobody shuns their allies at the behest of an oppressive larger enemy because they made a promise.

    Israel needs to actually make some sort of concessions that have possible negative repercussions to them or they're not going to make any progress on this.
    But Hamas IS their government, they've had complete control of Gaza ever since they kicked Fatah out years ago. I'm fairly certain a large majority of the citizens in Gaza would rather not be governed by Hamas.
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  23. Post #143
    Voted WORST Gold Member 2012
    Killuah's Avatar
    August 2005
    20,796 Posts
    His point is that in those wars he mentioned, it involved one uniformed military force versus another uniformed military force. This is not the case in the Israel/Hamas conflict. Hamas blends in with the populace, making it harder to distinguish a fighter from a civilian.

    This is why the civilian death rate is much higher because it's harder to distinguish the enemy from an innocent civilian.
    This would be a point if it was a case of "damn we killed the wrong guys" but that's not the case.

  24. Post #144
    Dennab
    July 2007
    43,766 Posts
    I'm definitely of the belief that Israel is generally the aggressor in this conflict but anyone who is "pleased to hear" about these deaths is just as bad as the people perpetuating violence over there.
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  25. Post #145
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,912 Posts
    How is Starpluck still a mod? Those are some appalling posts even by my standards.
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  26. Post #146
    Dennab
    July 2012
    4,355 Posts
    They are targeting Hamas, sure, but for every actual target they kill, a number of innocent people die as well.
    I love how this is suddenly a complete non-issue for the users of facepunch today.
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  27. Post #147
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    20,169 Posts
    Why are you banning people for criticising your post when it's quite clear that they're correct?

    I'm just saying, I really don't agree with you and saying shit like "BULLSHIT ALERT" is not presentable in the slightest. If WE said that, we'd get banned for trolling. And then I'll get banned for this post because I'm giving you something to critique on. But if I did it to someone else it'd be ignored.

    Double standards are lovely
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  28. Post #148
    What fun is it being cool if you can't wear a sombrero?
    Combineguy's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,330 Posts
    How is Starpluck still a mod? Those are some appalling posts even by my standards.
    "why is this guy i disagree with still a mod"
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  29. Post #149
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    20,169 Posts
    "why is this guy i disagree with still a mod"
    It's not really disagreeing, it's his presenting that is pissing people off. Some of his post have been structured good but come on. Saying bullshit alert and shit is just asking to get people rolled up
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  30. Post #150
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,055 Posts
    I'm fairly certain a large majority of the citizens in Gaza would rather not be governed by Hamas.
    Sure. Around 70% of Palestinians think Hamas is corrupt, doing their job poorly, and should have maintained a ceasefire. That doesn't mean Hamas can be starved out. The U.S. Congress has a lower approval rating in the U.S. than Hamas does in Gaza, and we haven't overthrown it. Just looking at approval statistics to try claiming an organization has no staying power is incredibly naive.

  31. Post #151
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,912 Posts
    "why is this guy i disagree with still a mod"
    Wrong. It's the fact that he's basically saying he's pleased to hear that these Israeli soldiers were murdered, ignoring that they're conscripted, and banning people who disagree with him.

    Both sides are wrong and have done terrible things. In my opinion Israel is more to blame. Their government is at fault.
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  32. Post #152
    Respected Member
    Dennab
    January 2005
    702 Posts
    considering how most of you guys seem to not care that hundreds of civilians of palestine have been killed, I don't understand why you wouldn't get that someone doesn't care that military personnel are being killed while serving their country
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  33. Post #153
    Gold Member
    JDK721's Avatar
    July 2006
    7,912 Posts
    considering how most of you guys seem to not care that hundreds of civilians of palestine have been killed
    What are you basing this on?
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  34. Post #154
    Respected Member
    Dennab
    January 2005
    702 Posts
    What are you basing this on?
    because I actually read this thread
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  35. Post #155
    FUCK OFF garry, I am a goddamn proud swedish moose, not a fucking british heathen!
    Sokrates's Avatar
    July 2010
    3,105 Posts
    I can't for the life of me think for a reason why people right now on this forum, defending a goverment who has done this, and killed over 10k civilians in the process.

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  36. Post #156
    Dennab
    September 2008
    12,030 Posts
    It's the fact that he's basically saying he's pleased to hear that these Israeli soldiers were murdere
    I said I am pleased to hear that the disproportionate civilian death ratio is not replicated on both sides. The IDF is the occupying force in this conflict, and some of them are going to unfortunately die. However, I am pleased to hear that Israeli civilians are not dying too in the conflict.

    Resistance against occupational military targets is a legitimate right affirmed by international law. Their conscription is an Israeli policy problem that needs to be addressed by the Israelis/government, not the Palestinians on the receiving end of this occupation.
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  37. Post #157
    Respected Member
    Dennab
    January 2005
    702 Posts
    Maybe we wouldn't have to conscript soldiers if Israel's friendly and lovable neighbors weren't attacking it every twelve minutes.

    As it stands, Israel wouldn't be a country if they didn't have military force to hold back the religious extremists that attack it on a weekly basis. I'd rather have military conscription than have the entire country get wiped out by some insurgents. Unless you really think that's a better solution-- please, don't talk about what you're clueless on.
    Maybe we wouldn't need Hamas if Palestine's friendly and lovable neighbors weren't attacking it every twelve minutes.

    As it stands, Palestine wouldn't be a country if they didn't have an insurgent force to hold back the religious extremists that attack it on a weekly basis. I'd rather have insurgency than have the entire country get wiped out by some soldiers. Unless you really think that's a better solution-- please, don't talk about what you're clueless on.
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  38. Post #158
    I really like to make music and do audio work, contact me if you need some yes?
    Tsyolin's Avatar
    June 2013
    2,175 Posts
    Maybe we wouldn't need Hamas if Palestine's friendly and lovable neighbors weren't attacking it every twelve minutes.

    As it stands, Palestine wouldn't be a country if they didn't have an insurgent force to hold back the religious extremists that attack it on a weekly basis. I'd rather have insurgency than have the entire country get wiped out by some soldiers. Unless you really think that's a better solution-- please, don't talk about what you're clueless on.
    It's funny because you could say the same exact thing about Israel back when was formed in the 40s. The day it declared dependance it was attacked by most of the Arab nations surrounding it and continued to be constantly attacked for years. They were at risk of total and utter destruction (and it's a miracle it didn't happen) until the 60s.

    You have to understand that Israel (and most of the world for that matter) despises Hamas, and Hamas would rather have Israel wiped off the map entirely. It shouldn't come as a surprise that these two aren't able to maintain a long standing peace agreement. It's politics as usual with these two, and if Hamas doesn't finally agree to Egypt's terms then it's not gonna stop. I don't think Gaza being annexed is the solution (nor do I think it's going to happen) but Hamas being ousted would be a very good start for the people of Gaza if you ask me.

  39. Post #159
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,856 Posts
    I can't for the life of me think for a reason why people right now on this forum, defending a goverment who has done this, and killed over 10k civilians in the process.

    Yes, its amazing what happens when OTHER COUNTRIES declare war on you and you capture land, or did you forget the multiple conflicts that israel has been involved in.
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  40. Post #160
    italics560's Avatar
    November 2008
    602 Posts
    What are you talking about?

    Edited:

    Nevermind, not going even bother replying to him. Just remembered Jemkem is a batshit in the head (no need to explain).
    Seriously, what did that prove. A shallow insult solves nothing, and will not make your point more valid.

    Not to mention the fact that you are completely one sided on this entire conflict. They are fighting a war, against an enemy that uses civilians for cover. Now why I do agree that Israel gets trigger happy and non coms get caught in the crossfire, they also have enemies on all sides that want to eradicate not just them, but their entire culture. They do not have the luxury to call a "time out" and think things through. They are a country of action, not talk. If given the chance, their enemies will kill as many of their civilians as they can, and be heralded as heroes for it.

    Israel does not fuck around. If Hamas wasn't firing fucking rockets at them every day, this shit wouldn't even be happening right now. If Hamas didn't break the cease fire 40 minutes in, a lot more people would be alive right now.
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