1. Post #41
    Gold Member
    sgman91's Avatar
    July 2006
    10,908 Posts
    The whole BMI chart thing is a load of shit though. Some super muscular guy like Arnold Schwarzenegger can be considered obese by that chart

    Some mildly chubby person that most of us would even consider more thin than fat would be considered obese by it, and then there's people on the other side of the scale who come in underweight. It basically doesn't mean shit

    The whole Body Mass Index should be ditched. And you shouldn't even worry about a child's weight until they're 15-20 years old because of how rapidly they change in those years unless it's an extreme. Fuck I knew a kid in high school who was fat. Our summer vacation lasted almost 3 months. On return, he was over a foot taller and packing some abs
    Yeah, I go from being classed as overweight (when I'm in pretty good shape and wouldn't be considered fat at all) to obese (when carrying 10 or more extra pounds). I'm 6'4 and very broad. The annoying part is that doctors still pretend like I should lose another 20-40 pounds in order to be classified as healthy when I would have to be distinctly unhealthy if I were to do so.

  2. Post #42
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Dennab
    January 2009
    24,631 Posts
    Overweight is anything considered not optimal health wise, as defined for medical use at least what is considered "fat" by societal standards is of course a very different story. Obese is when it becomes a substantial medical concern, So while overweight isn't terrible or life threatening it certainly also isnt going to be optimal, otherwise it would be the suggested weight.
    You are failing to realize how pointless overall the term "overweight" is. It all depends on the particular case.

    Don't forget that your weight can be made of either surplus bodily fat, or abnormal amount of muscle tissue, and both will lead to higher bodily weight relative to your height.

    You can be a heavy fucking motherfucker and by definition overweight but it might be because you are a heap of muscle with indeed some fat on top of that, but your cardio condition might be perfect.

    On the other side, you might have completely "normal" weight but instead of having healthy amount of muscle and little fat, you can be missing muscle almost altogether and still have a quite high amount of bodily fat, and that's worse than having the same amount of fat and extra muscle on top of it.

    This is why we outside of weight to height also measure bodily fat weight percentage - weight itself and being overweight doesn't really mean jack shit. Chances are that people who are by definition overweight are far healthier than somebody 10kg lighter if their other physiological characteristics are better.
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  3. Post #43
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    25,780 Posts
    Sexual discrimination starts the day you're born, when you get a blue blanket or a pink blanket.
    Funny enough, it used to be the other way around a few hundred years ago, if that long
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  4. Post #44
    itisjuly's Avatar
    July 2012
    10,583 Posts
    It doesn't really make sense for it to be biological.

    Until very recently in human history being fat would be seen as something extremely positive since it meant you had excess food.
    It was seen as positive because you were rich enough to pig out. This was in no way healthy though. It simply meant you wouldn't die from starvation. Nowadays we can have a proper daily diet without fear of starving so we don't need excess fat to get us through rough days when no food is available.
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  5. Post #45
    Gold Member
    Riutet's Avatar
    April 2010
    3,344 Posts
    The whole BMI chart thing is a load of shit though. Some super muscular guy like Arnold Schwarzenegger can be considered obese by that chart

    Some mildly chubby person that most of us would even consider more thin than fat would be considered obese by it, and then there's people on the other side of the scale who come in underweight. It basically doesn't mean shit

    The whole Body Mass Index should be ditched. And you shouldn't even worry about a child's weight until they're 15-20 years old because of how rapidly they change in those years unless it's an extreme. Fuck I knew a kid in high school who was fat. Our summer vacation lasted almost 3 months. On return, he was over a foot taller and packing some abs
    BMI is outdated and fairly obsolete.

    Waist to hip ratio is superior.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist–hip_ratio
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  6. Post #46
    itisjuly's Avatar
    July 2012
    10,583 Posts
    BMI is outdated and fairly obsolete.

    Waist to hip ratio is superior.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist–hip_ratio
    How is it superior exactly? I agree that BMI is outdated but waist to hip seems more useful for measuring your frame than how healthy fat you are. I've seen plenty of people who had very little ratio difference because of their bone structure.
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  7. Post #47
    HAND.CAT
    barttool's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,504 Posts
    Sexual discrimination starts the day you're born, when you get a blue blanket or a pink blanket.
    b-but i got one with the name and logo of a politician that was doing electioneering at the time because the hospital was poor and had not enough blankets..

    Edited:

    also yeah fuck being able to quickly identify which babies in a room full of fucking babies is a boy or a girl
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  8. Post #48
    Gold Member
    Riutet's Avatar
    April 2010
    3,344 Posts
    How is it superior exactly? I agree that BMI is outdated but waist to hip seems more useful for measuring your frame than how healthy fat you are. I've seen plenty of people who had very little ratio difference because of their bone structure.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21461943
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  9. Post #49
    Gold Member
    Terminutter's Avatar
    June 2010
    6,455 Posts
    BMI is outdated and fairly obsolete.

    Waist to hip ratio is superior.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist–hip_ratio
    There is a BMI scale corrected for height that is used clinically (calculation the same, but referenced against a graph), but it is only used as a very quick baseline for people. It is not that useful on an individual level, but it is designed to work over a population, not on singular people. The situations where corrected BMI isn't useful are fairly obvious - said person tends to be totally ripped if they are coming off as obese on it. (be it class I, II or III)

    I agree that the waist:hip ratio is superior, but you would really take both if doing an accurate assessment of health, as wasit:hip mostly does abdominal fat, and BMI covers a tiny bit more.

    As a general rule, it's used for anonymous statistics generated by hospitals, which can be used in epidemiological studies of the populace, which are very useful, as the minority not covered by it are outliers.
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  10. Post #50
    Gold Member

    December 2013
    359 Posts
    Yep, doing a great job teaching your daughter to be accepting of other people this way.
    Then again, it doesn't matter because everyone is already broken and unfixable by the time you get into middleschool.
    except unlike being gay or something being fat is a choice and I don't have to accept them if I don't want to

    Edited:

    Well its an arbitrary measure, probably set by social standards rather than actual medicinal data,

    You are more likely to be resistant to disease, and you are definitely more protected from injury, cuts bruises and bludgeoning, aswell as cold, if you have about an inch of bodyfat around your muscles. Its simply the way our biology is structured.

    Edited:



    Its still a social stigma though. Perpetuated by social media among other things.
    ok honestly how fat are you oh and guess what muscles are denser than fat so everything you said is wrong the only thing being fat will do is protect you from drowning oh wait no it won't because you'll still have to work harder to stay afloat
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  11. Post #51
    Gold Member
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    11,657 Posts
    Well its an arbitrary measure, probably set by social standards rather than actual medicinal data,

    You are more likely to be resistant to disease, and you are definitely more protected from injury, cuts bruises and bludgeoning, aswell as cold, if you have about an inch of bodyfat around your muscles. Its simply the way our biology is structured.

    Edited:



    Its still a social stigma though. Perpetuated by social media among other things.
    Social standards are not arbitrary
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  12. Post #52
    MWSunder's Avatar
    September 2010
    87 Posts
    I think it's likely that their responses are based on the type of people they're surrounded by.

    Imagine a young black child around 3-5 years old is asked to choose between a toy that is white and a toy that is black, like them. Their family is black, their friends and neighbors may also be black, too. Which one are they likely to pick?

    I think if the young girls in this survey had many overweight family members, they might be more likely to choose the overweight dolls, since it's something they have feelings associated with.

  13. Post #53
    Sprockethead's Avatar
    November 2012
    2,211 Posts
    except unlike being gay or something being fat is a choice and I don't have to accept them if I don't want to

    Edited:


    ok honestly how fat are you oh and guess what muscles are denser than fat so everything you said is wrong the only thing being fat will do is protect you from drowning oh wait no it won't because you'll still have to work harder to stay afloat
    Punctuation.

    Edited:

    Social standards are not arbitrary
    Social standards is the most arbitrary thing imaginable.
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  14. Post #54
    Gold Member
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    11,657 Posts
    Social standards is the most arbitrary thing imaginable.
    Not when it comes to looks they're not
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  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    bdd458's Avatar
    March 2012
    8,971 Posts
    BMI is great for doing studies of a large population, but when used for the individual imo it falls flat on its face.

  16. Post #56
    Poor people are peasants
    avincent's Avatar
    October 2012
    1,409 Posts
    I wonder what would happen if it was all fat kids with fat parents, would they flock to the fat dolls or the nonfat dolls?

  17. Post #57
    tr00per7's Avatar
    September 2008
    1,063 Posts
    Well I guess fat dolls are more expensive.

    You need more material to make them.

  18. Post #58
    8==== ===== ===== ===== ===D
    Dennab
    April 2008
    3,927 Posts
    Punctuation.

    Edited:



    Social standards is the most arbitrary thing imaginable.
    sorry sir i dont listen to people who think this

    is healthy
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  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    Jagur's Avatar
    May 2010
    1,598 Posts
    cool selfie
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  20. Post #60
    Gold Member

    April 2011
    4,845 Posts
    Can somebody provide a picture of a fat doll ?

    As far as I know all "fat" dolls actually represent babies, and babies are not really thin and lean.

    On the other hand thin dolls usually represent teenagers or grown ups.

    So IMO all this research is based on BS. It's not fat vs. thin, maybe they are just more interested in grown ups than babies, which is logical because they want to learn, grow up, and be like them...

  21. Post #61
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    Not when it comes to looks they're not
    There is no objective guide to what looks good to people.

    Faces are very hard to peg and there being so many different types of faces the idea that we have a natural standard is a little off base. There are aspects of beauty that appeal to us more than others as a rule, but that doesn't make for an objective standard either.

    As long as a face has symmetry, even proportions and well scaled features(eyes/nose/lips/ears) we're going to like it, but there's a lot more to it than that.

  22. Post #62
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    17,630 Posts
    There is no objective guide to what looks good to people.

    Faces are very hard to peg and there being so many different types of faces the idea that we have a natural standard is a little off base. There are aspects of beauty that appeal to us more than others as a rule, but that doesn't make for an objective standard either.

    As long as a face has symmetry, even proportions and well scaled features(eyes/nose/lips/ears) we're going to like it, but there's a lot more to it than that.
    Fat has a habit of screwing up those even proportions and scaled features though, so there's a reason people generally don't find fat people attractive.

    Plus there's the whole unhealthy aspect of it.

  23. Post #63
    Why so Sirius?
    SIRIUS's Avatar
    April 2009
    3,668 Posts
    sorry sir i dont listen to people who think this

    is healthy
    Could that be a strawman?
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  24. Post #64
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    Fat has a habit of screwing up those even proportions and scaled features though, so there's a reason people generally don't find fat people attractive.

    Plus there's the whole unhealthy aspect of it.
    What's your scale for "fat" here? Is 5 lbs "fat"? 10? 15? 20? Where is the unhealthy line that is so easily defined?

    Is that based on an objective scale or a scale of modern times? Fat used to be a much more attractive trait than it is today

    And yes, fat can change those aspects but it isn't always the case that it makes them entirely worse.
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  25. Post #65
    Gold Member
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    11,657 Posts
    There is no objective guide to what looks good to people.

    Faces are very hard to peg and there being so many different types of faces the idea that we have a natural standard is a little off base. There are aspects of beauty that appeal to us more than others as a rule, but that doesn't make for an objective standard either.

    As long as a face has symmetry, even proportions and well scaled features(eyes/nose/lips/ears) we're going to like it, but there's a lot more to it than that.
    Still far from arbitrary. People who find fat attractive are few and far between.

  26. Post #66
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    Still far from arbitrary. People who find fat attractive are few and far between.
    What are you calling "fat"?

    That's the thing, you guys are just saying "well fat people are ugly and no one likes them" but what is the line you are calling fat exactly? Is fat someone who's 10 or 15 lbs overweight?

    And if it's not arbitrary, please define the objective line of reasoning the human mind follows
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  27. Post #67
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    17,630 Posts
    What are you calling "fat"?

    That's the thing, you guys are just saying "well fat people are ugly and no one likes them" but what is the line you are calling fat exactly? Is fat someone who's 10 or 15 lbs overweight?
    I know it when I see it.

    Just like porn.
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  28. Post #68
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    I know it when I see it.

    Just like porn.
    so it's an arbitrary line

    good

    it's meaningless and you admitted it
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  29. Post #69
    Gold Member
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    11,657 Posts
    What are you calling "fat"?

    That's the thing, you guys are just saying "well fat people are ugly and no one likes them" but what is the line you are calling fat exactly? Is fat someone who's 10 or 15 lbs overweight?

    And if it's not arbitrary, please define the objective line of reasoning the human mind follows
    The human mind does not follow objective lines, that's not how our brains work. However, most people have similar standards for who is fat and who isn't, that's why it's not arbitrary

  30. Post #70
    The Cold Wind Of France
    Dennab
    November 2008
    18,714 Posts
    thin privilege is real!!1
    thin privilege is bullshit
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  31. Post #71
    Poor people are peasants
    avincent's Avatar
    October 2012
    1,409 Posts
    sorry sir i dont listen to people who think this

    is healthy
    But all that fat protects his vital organs from being stabbed or shot!

  32. Post #72
    What if we as a nation came to realize that the quest 4 empire eventually destroys all great nations
    sloppy_joes's Avatar
    November 2006
    16,213 Posts
    This is a good thing. Being fat is not a good thing. Good.
    And, while 70 per cent of the girls said they’d like to play with the thin doll and 20 per cent the average-size, just 10 per cent wanted the chubby doll.
    Sounds more like indoctrination than anything to me. They had a similar study with black and while dolls

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  33. Post #73
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    17,630 Posts
    so it's an arbitrary line

    good

    it's meaningless and you admitted it
    Eh, it's an arbitrary line a buttload of people share.

  34. Post #74
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    again, where is this line?

    is 10lbs overweight? or is that overweight on one person and not another? What looks bad on one person is not always going to make another person look the same.
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  35. Post #75
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    17,630 Posts
    again, where is this line?

    is 10lbs overweight? or is that overweight on one person and not another? What looks bad on one person is not always going to make another person look the same.
    The line is wherever people agree it is.

    This isn't rocket surgery dude.
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  36. Post #76
    Gold Member
    Laserbeams's Avatar
    February 2010
    11,657 Posts
    again, where is this line?

    is 10lbs overweight? or is that overweight on one person and not another? What looks bad on one person is not always going to make another person look the same.
    This is just an excuse fat people use, nothing more. If you use that excuse then you are probably way past the arbitrary fat line. Sorry for the ad hominem
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  37. Post #77
    The Devourer of Souls
    Rhenae's Avatar
    July 2011
    3,436 Posts
    Can somebody provide a picture of a fat doll ?

    As far as I know all "fat" dolls actually represent babies, and babies are not really thin and lean.

    On the other hand thin dolls usually represent teenagers or grown ups.

    So IMO all this research is based on BS. It's not fat vs. thin, maybe they are just more interested in grown ups than babies, which is logical because they want to learn, grow up, and be like them...
    Havent been able to find pictures but the dolls they used for this were custom made, all had the same face, and clothing. So they weren't just pulling some pre-made entirely different dolls to use.

  38. Post #78
    Desuh's Avatar
    November 2011
    8,680 Posts
    Can somebody provide a picture of a fat doll ?

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  39. Post #79
    Gold Member
    omggrass's Avatar
    August 2005
    387 Posts
    Yeah, I go from being classed as overweight (when I'm in pretty good shape and wouldn't be considered fat at all) to obese (when carrying 10 or more extra pounds). I'm 6'4 and very broad. The annoying part is that doctors still pretend like I should lose another 20-40 pounds in order to be classified as healthy when I would have to be distinctly unhealthy if I were to do so.
    if your doctor only uses BMI he/She is wrong in their classification and probably don't want to pay to actually find out how healthy you are. there are a lot more accurate measures of body weight such as

    Body Adipose Iindex = (hip/height x the square root of height) minus 18.

    or

    Hydrostatic Weighing

    or for extreme precision Dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry

  40. Post #80
    Gold Member
    HumanAbyss's Avatar
    March 2009
    30,292 Posts
    This is just an excuse fat people use, nothing more. If you use that excuse then you are probably way past the arbitrary fat line. Sorry for the ad hominem
    No I'm about 10 lbs overweight but I don't look it.

    I used to be fat and struggled with my weight but I lost it for the most part

    The idea that there's some uniquely agreed upon line is weird when you can't even define it at all. I don't look at all forms of overweight people as badly as you do, and yet you have to call me fat for it? apologizing doesn't make it okay or rebuke you from that.

    Edited:

    The line is wherever people agree it is.

    This isn't rocket surgery dude.
    so why can't you clarify where it is if you're part of this? it's not rocket surgery dude
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