1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    CabooseRvB's Avatar
    September 2009
    12,383 Posts
    (Reuters) - Anti-government protesters toppled a statue of Soviet state founder Vladimir Lenin in Ukraine's capital and attacked it with hammers on Sunday in a symbolic challenge to President Viktor Yanukovich and his plans for closer ties with Russia.

    The gesture rejecting Moscow's historic influence over Ukraine came after opposition leaders told hundreds of thousands of demonstrators on Kiev's Independence Square to keep up pressure on Yanukovich to sack his government.

    The protesters are furious that the government decided last month to ditch a landmark pact with the European Union in favour of closer economic cooperation with Moscow, Ukraine's Soviet-era overlord.

    Yanukovich's sudden tack towards Russia has provoked the biggest street protests since the 2004-5 Orange Revolution, when people power forced a re-run of a fraud-tainted election and thwarted his first run for the presidency.

    "Yanukovich, you are next!" read a poster stuck on the plinth where the red granite statue of Lenin had stood. People hacked off chunks of the prostrate - and now headless - leader of the 1917 Bolshevik revolution to take home as souvenirs.
    Reuters

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  2. Post #2
    www.bff-hab.de
    DrDevil's Avatar
    May 2006
    3,291 Posts
    That's one badass looking man on the horse.
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  3. Post #3
    Dennab
    July 2010
    6,533 Posts
    I fucking love the random Cossack

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  4. Post #4
    TheKingofBees's Avatar
    July 2013
    778 Posts
    i kind of find it ironic as lenin was a man against the bourgeois and oligarchs just as they are
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  5. Post #5
    Dennab
    June 2005
    14,184 Posts
    i kind of find it ironic as lenin was a man against the bourgeois and oligarchs just as they are
    its not ironic when the statue represents Ukrainians serfdome to Russia, which is what this is all about.
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  6. Post #6
    roar
    Calkkuna's Avatar
    January 2008
    10,365 Posts
    i kind of find it ironic as lenin was a man against the bourgeois and oligarchs just as they are
    It also symbolizes the old rule and Russia for them, and that's what they want to get rid of.
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  7. Post #7
    Tinbe's Avatar
    March 2013
    1,275 Posts
    From this thread:
    This was done by a bunch of neo-nazi football hooligans, not by the actual Euromaidan protesters



    The spraypaint on the pedestal says "Glory to our nation, death to the enemies"
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  8. Post #8
    But Stuff
    Vodkavia's Avatar
    January 2012
    5,932 Posts
    They should build a statue of Putin to tear down.
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  9. Post #9
    Dennab
    May 2009
    3,749 Posts
    that sledgehammer looks massive lmao
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    CabooseRvB's Avatar
    September 2009
    12,383 Posts
    I fucking love the random Cossack
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  11. Post #11
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    It's still not cool knocking a statue over.
    Granted, there are Lenin statues fucking EVERYWHERE in the former USSR, but still.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    Alxnotorious's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,591 Posts
    But Lenin was a cool guy :(
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  13. Post #13
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    i kind of find it ironic as lenin was a man against the bourgeois and oligarchs just as they are
    no, it's ironic that lenin statues were ever erected in the first place.
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    Psychokitten's Avatar
    July 2009
    14,424 Posts
    But Lenin was a cool guy :(
    Yeah, real cool, ordering the deaths of the former royal family.
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  15. Post #15
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    But Lenin was a cool guy :(
    He overthrew the legitimate government and set up forced labour camps, a secret police, and suppressing freedoms.

    He also managed to alienate almost all of his supporters and end up betraying them.
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  16. Post #16
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    Yeah, real cool, ordering the deaths of the former royal family.
    That's actually not entirely true, it's not known up to this day who ordered to shoot the Romanov family: was it the bolshevik HQ or it was decided on the spot (the romanovs were held in Yekaterinburg, about a thousand kilometers from St. Petersburg, where Lenin was situationed)
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  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    Alxnotorious's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,591 Posts
    Yeah, real cool, ordering the deaths of the former royal family.
    He overthrew the legitimate government and set up forced labour camps, a secret police, and suppressing freedoms.

    He also managed to alienate almost all of his supporters and end up betraying them.
    But he wasn't Stalin!
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  18. Post #18
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    But he wasn't Stalin!
    Stalin merely inherited the Soviet State as it had been created during the revolution, and took the precedent set by Lenin to its logical conclusion.
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  19. Post #19
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    Stalin merely inherited the Soviet State as it had been created during the revolution, and took the precedent set by Lenin to its logical conclusion.
    Actually, again not entirely true. Some time before his death Lenin actually eased up the pressure on the people, allowed the freedom of trade again (look up New Economic Policy) and generally reduced the situation from "nightmare" to "pretty damn shit". Stalin's ideas such as dekulakization, collectivization and other fun repressions were his original content. I'm not defending anyone, I'm just trying to clear up the misunderstandings.

    Edited:

    Lenin still was the one behind the idea of Red Terror, which was quite horrible on its own. He also was behind the destruction of the russian church, which was a truly barbaric series of acts.
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  20. Post #20
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    Stalin merely inherited the Soviet State as it had been created during the revolution, and took the precedent set by Lenin to its logical conclusion.
    um the holodomor wouldn't have happened under lenin, for one.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    EddieLTU's Avatar
    August 2011
    5,785 Posts
    But Lenin was a cool guy :(
    oh really?
    he founded USSR, with Trotsky, started a holocaust, etc...

  22. Post #22
    No title or gold masterrace, whoops.
    Teddybeer's Avatar
    July 2012
    9,247 Posts
    i kind of find it ironic as lenin was a man against the bourgeois and oligarchs just as they are
    He also didn't care who lived or died as long as his plans were carried out.
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  23. Post #23
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    oh really?
    he founded USSR, with Trotsky, started a holocaust, etc...
    lenin didn't start a holocaust
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  24. Post #24
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    Actually, again not entirely true. Some time before his death Lenin actually eased up the pressure on the people, allowed the freedom of trade again (look up New Economic Policy) and generally reduced the situation from "nightmare" to "pretty damn shit". Stalin's ideas such as dekulakization, collectivization and other fun repressions were his original content. I'm not defending anyone, I'm just trying to clear up the misunderstandings.

    Edited:

    Lenin still was the one behind the idea of Red Terror, which was quite horrible on its own. He also was behind the destruction of the russian church, which was a truly barbaric series of acts.
    One of the things Lenin established within the party was to suppress "factionalism". On its own at the time this was not realized, but Stalin would abuse it in later years to gain control of the party.

    NEP was working quite well, but Lenin was holding off on Communism because the peasantry were so violently opposed to his regime. Stalin decided to fix the problem of the peasantry by liquidating them as a group.

    Edited:

    um the holodomor wouldn't have happened under lenin, for one.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    JoeSkylynx's Avatar
    October 2008
    14,428 Posts
    oh really?
    he founded USSR, with Trotsky, started a holocaust, etc...
    You're thinking about Stalin, who organized an artificial famine to kill off Ukrainians in the 30's
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  26. Post #26
    Dennab
    June 2005
    14,184 Posts
    You're thinking about Stalin, who organized an artificial famine to kill off Ukrainians in the 30's
    *some people believe
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  27. Post #27
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    what does that have to do with holodomor?
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  28. Post #28
    Dennab
    April 2011
    1,556 Posts
    This won't end well

    Without them personally finding the members of the government and impale them, there is no solution that will cause the current government to resign

  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,318 Posts
    hmm i bet someone in russia who put the brakes on the EU deal is getting a little pissed off

  30. Post #30
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    what does that have to do with holodomor?
    The Soviet State was as indifferent to the sufferings of their citizens in 1921 as it was in 1931.

    It wasn't exactly genocide, but Lenin was clearly capable of allowing so much pointless suffering to happen. During both famines, the Soviet Union exported food to pay for heavy industrial machinery while denying foreign aid.

    Edited:

    *some people believe
    It's largely accepted that the Holodomor was a genocide.

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Sableye's Avatar
    October 2009
    22,318 Posts
    *some people believe
    you're talking about a guy who ordered cops to sit outside the U.S. embassy and arrest and execute people who were turned out of the embassy
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    damnatus's Avatar
    October 2006
    6,891 Posts
    lotta people confuse lenin with stalin, including those protesters
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  33. Post #33
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    One of the things Lenin established within the party was to suppress "factionalism". On its own at the time this was not realized, but Stalin would abuse it in later years to gain control of the party.

    NEP was working quite well, but Lenin was holding off on Communism because the peasantry were so violently opposed to his regime. Stalin decided to fix the problem of the peasantry by liquidating them as a group.
    The peasantry was opposed to the regime so hard, there was actually a third faction in the Civil War, the Greens which consisted of peasants that defended their own villages from both the Reds and the Whites.
    A notable leader of these is Nestor Makhno.

  34. Post #34
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    The Soviet State was as indifferent to the sufferings of their citizens in 1921 as it was in 1931.

    It wasn't exactly genocide, but Lenin was clearly capable of allowing so much pointless suffering to happen. During both famines, the Soviet Union exported food to pay for heavy industrial machinery while denying foreign aid.

    Edited:



    It's largely accepted that the Holodomor was a genocide.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian..._relief_effort

    people did try to help, and a lot of food did make it to the ukraine.

    yea soviet policy was pretty brutal under lenin regarding the ukrainians, but it was nothing compared to the holodomor.

  35. Post #35
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    lotta people confuse lenin with stalin, including those protesters
    Lenin crushed Ukrainian bids for independence and violently suppressed secessionist movements within the USSR.
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  36. Post #36
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    yawmwen's Avatar
    February 2006
    22,178 Posts
    Lenin crushed Ukrainian bids for independence and violently suppressed secessionist movements within the USSR.
    out of curiosity, why was finland allowed to secede and ukraine not?

  37. Post #37
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    The Soviet State was as indifferent to the sufferings of their citizens in 1921 as it was in 1931.

    It wasn't exactly genocide, but Lenin was clearly capable of allowing so much pointless suffering to happen. During both famines, the Soviet Union exported food to pay for heavy industrial machinery while denying foreign aid.
    Except the Soviet Union didn't exist back in 1921, and there was no machinery to be imported because you don't really build industry in a civil war.

  38. Post #38
    scurr's Avatar
    May 2009
    848 Posts
    I've just noticed the rad looking helmet in the picture with people giving a two-fingered salute.

  39. Post #39
    Proudly supporting the JIDF
    Dennab
    July 2010
    22,819 Posts
    The peasantry was opposed to the regime so hard, there was actually a third faction in the Civil War, the Greens which consisted of peasants that defended their own villages from both the Reds and the Whites.
    A notable leader of these is Nestor Makhno.
    Interestingly (particularly in the western Ukraine), there was more support for Ukrainian nationalism than for the Greens, mostly due to what intellectuals had been up to under the tsars (And in the Austrian part as well). (Publishing newspapers on local events, promoting the language, setting up credit institutions, schools, etc)

    So there was also the nationalist groups in the Ukraine as well.

  40. Post #40
    Maxime Lebled
    maxumym's Avatar
    December 2010
    11,412 Posts
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian..._relief_effort

    people did try to help, and a lot of food did make it to the ukraine.
    Ukraine was actually one of the places providing support, it wasn't devastated by the revolution as much as the russian territory and thus had a fair share of food at the time.