1. Post #2081
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Hurray for Logitech putting a 3 year warranty on this mouse. Just opened a case. If their support is as good as what everyone says it is, they will send a replacement.
    Logitech's support has been kind of iffy recently, they say that they open a case but then they don't ever get back to you, you can bump it and eventually they'll say they started the return process and then go quiet for lord knows how long, it was good before, I know a guy that broke like 3 MX518s because of wear and tear and they sent him 3 G400, no questions asked. This was like 2 years ago though.

  2. Post #2082
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Logitech's support has been kind of iffy recently, they say that they open a case but then they don't ever get back to you, you can bump it and eventually they'll say they started the return process and then go quiet for lord knows how long, it was good before, I know a guy that broke like 3 MX518s because of wear and tear and they sent him 3 G400, no questions asked. This was like 2 years ago though.
    Maybe its because it was costing them too much money now that all their mice have terrible QC.

  3. Post #2083
    SK17a
    garychencool's Avatar
    October 2010
    21,169 Posts
    Why are you using the glorified office mouse anyhow?

    I'd have thought you'd go for a G900.
    Because I use this glorified office mouse for 95% office work and 5% gaming, G900 doesn't have enough buttons for my uses (and neither does the G700s but the layout works and it's comfy).

  4. Post #2084
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Why are you using the glorified office mouse anyhow?

    I'd have thought you'd go for a G900.
    Wait when you said glorified office mouse I thought you meant the Kinzu was the glorified office mouse, whatever you're not wrong either way in this situation.

    Because I use this glorified office mouse for 95% office work and 5% gaming, G900 doesn't have enough buttons for my uses (and neither does the G700s but the layout works and it's comfy).
    Just get an MMO mouse if you need hella buttons.

  5. Post #2085
    SK17a
    garychencool's Avatar
    October 2010
    21,169 Posts
    Wait when you said glorified office mouse I thought you meant the Kinzu was the glorified office mouse, whatever you're not wrong either way in this situation.



    Just get an MMO mouse if you need hella buttons.
    I never liked the number pad style on the mouse, it never really felt comfy and it seemed way too annoying and complex with 6 or 12 buttons on my thumb. G700s spreads them out a bit better imo.

  6. Post #2086
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    I never liked the number pad style on the mouse, it never really felt comfy and it seemed way too annoying and complex with 6 or 12 buttons on my thumb. G700s spreads them out a bit better imo.
    Yeah I can understand that, I would always accidentally press them in when I squeezed my thumb, I actually have a difficult time having side buttons at all because some mice have them placed terribly in a way where I can squeeze the side and actuate them entirely on accident (Zowie FK2) or I have to move my thumb off the mouse entirely to press the side buttons (Logitech G400)

  7. Post #2087
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    29,560 Posts
    Well I ended up snagging a MX Master off eBay for $40. Supposedly "manufacturer refurbished" but I doubt it, probably a return that they just couldn't sell as a repackage or something. Really fucking good mouse though. I love the whole SmartShift thing; just needed to tweak it to be a little bit less sensitive than the default and it was perfect.

  8. Post #2088
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Well I ended up snagging a MX Master off eBay for $40. Supposedly "manufacturer refurbished" but I doubt it, probably a return that they just couldn't sell as a repackage or something. Really fucking good mouse though. I love the whole SmartShift thing; just needed to tweak it to be a little bit less sensitive than the default and it was perfect.
    Could you elaborate as to what an smartshift actually is?

    From the marketing stuff it sounds like a CPI toggle, but I don't get why they wouldn't just call it that instead if that's what it is.

    Edited:

    I just ordered a Nixeus Revel and another Aurora.

  9. Post #2089
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    29,560 Posts
    Could you elaborate as to what an smartshift actually is?

    From the marketing stuff it sounds like a CPI toggle, but I don't get why they wouldn't just call it that instead if that's what it is.

    Edited:

    I just ordered a Nixeus Revel and another Aurora.
    The SmartShift isn't CPI related, basically how some Logitech mice let you switch between a clicky wheel and a free-spinning wheel with a button; you can still do that with the MX Master, but it can also do it automatically based on how fast you spin the scroll wheel.

  10. Post #2090
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Oh right. The only thing I remember about those scrolls is their absurd weight. The scroll assembly out of a G502 weighs almost half as much as my mouse.

  11. Post #2091
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Oh right. The only thing I remember about those scrolls is their absurd weight. The scroll assembly out of a G502 weighs almost half as much as my mouse.
    And how much they slam around inside of the shell.

  12. Post #2092
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    And how much they slam around inside of the shell.
    Quality lolgitech engineering

  13. Post #2093
    Gold Member
    ss1234's Avatar
    January 2006
    1,869 Posts
    Just invested in a corsair sabre after years of using logitech. I found that logitech mice suffer from the double click bug, and mine had been showing this during CSGO matches where I would literally have to keep on clicking in order to fire an auto-weapon
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  14. Post #2094
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Just invested in a corsair sabre after years of using logitech. I found that logitech mice suffer from the double click bug, and mine had been showing this during CSGO matches where I would literally have to keep on clicking in order to fire an auto-weapon
    If you updated the firmware from the stock firmware then you will never have another double click issue in your life, because that makes the click delay TERRIBLE.

  15. Post #2095
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    If you updated the firmware from the stock firmware then you will never have another double click issue in your life, because that makes the click delay TERRIBLE.
    Turns click delay from just bad to terrible.

    Edited:

    Just invested in a corsair sabre after years of using logitech. I found that logitech mice suffer from the double click bug, and mine had been showing this during CSGO matches where I would literally have to keep on clicking in order to fire an auto-weapon
    Why did you not read the OP first.

  16. Post #2096
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Turns click delay from just bad to terrible.

    Edited:



    Why did you not read the OP first.
    Actually the Sabre has really good click delay when it's not updated, it won 1300 out of 1500 clicks against the Ikari, but as soon as you update the firmware you fucked your shit up. 16ms click delay.
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  17. Post #2097
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Actually the Sabre has really good click delay when it's not updated, it won 1300 out of 1500 clicks against the Ikari, but as soon as you update the firmware you fucked your shit up. 16ms click delay.
    in fucking credible

    what were they thinking

    not like it matters either way cause VCSEL sensor

  18. Post #2098
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    28,363 Posts
    Are there any mouse size comparisons around? I use an MX518 and people say things like this mouse isn't good for fingertip, but meanwhile I have big hands and use it fingertip.

  19. Post #2099
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Are there any mouse size comparisons around? I use an MX518 and people say things like this mouse isn't good for fingertip, but meanwhile I have big hands and use it fingertip.
    Measure your hands and compare them to the sizes in the OP.

    New OP should be getting posted soon once Banned? wakes up. I've already sent him the pastebin.

  20. Post #2100
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    in fucking credible

    what were they thinking

    not like it matters either way cause VCSEL sensor
    There's an optical Sabre that uses the 3988, it's really not a bad mouse at all, but like I said, don't update the firmware or boy you done did it.

    Are there any mouse size comparisons around? I use an MX518 and people say things like this mouse isn't good for fingertip, but meanwhile I have big hands and use it fingertip.


    Old but it works.

  21. Post #2101
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    28,363 Posts
    Measure your hands and compare them to the sizes in the OP.

    New OP should be getting posted soon once Banned? wakes up. I've already sent him the pastebin.
    Measure my hands from where to where? A ctrl+f in the doctoral dissertation that is the OP turns up nothing on how to measure your hand.

    Edited:

    Measuring from tip of middle finger to the start of my wrist puts me at about 20-21 cm.

    Edited:

    https://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com...ation-fix.html

    Convenient thing for OP.

  22. Post #2102
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Not required if you're playing any modern day game, just disable "Enhance Pointer Precision" from the Windows menus, the only game I've had this problem in is 1.6 and you can disable that using launch options.

    As for hand measurements.


  23. Post #2103
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    28,363 Posts
    20cm it is then.

    Question: In the OP, look at something like the Logitech G403 Wired.

    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is braided, smooth and stiff, too large to fit in many mouse bungees, feet are known for scratching on pads. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Then look at the G502:

    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Stiff braided cable, feet are rather large and smooth, some people have said the foot near the sensor of the mouse is plastic and will begin to add friction over time. Click delay can be as low as 4ms. Not recommended for FPS games.
    Well uhh... Why? Is the friction problem the reason?

  24. Post #2104
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    20cm it is then.

    Question: In the OP, look at something like the Logitech G403 Wired.



    Then look at the G502:



    Well uhh... Why? Is the friction problem the reason?
    The weight is the reason, it's 120g WITHOUT WEIGHTS. It's way, WAYYYY too heavy for FPS games where you will be moving your wrist or arm often.

    G403 on the other hand is roughly 90g w/o weight, around 105g w/ weight, much more acceptable for someone who will be moving for prolonged periods of time.

  25. Post #2105
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    28,363 Posts
    See, I figured it could be weight, but that would be stupid because some people like to play competitive FPS games with a heavier mouse so that would be a really silly thing to put against it as a universal rule rather than personal taste, but also because the Logitech G402 has a similar warning saying it's not good for FPS games with no discernible reasoning as to why while the G400 is the same weight and has no such warning. So I started for looking for alternative explanations.

    So instead of "Don't use this for FPS games", consider instead "Note: this mouse is heavier than average which some users may not find comfortable for prolonged play." This solves the problem of the vague descriptor with no justification and further goes towards making the guide more objective.
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  26. Post #2106
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    There's a difference between recommendations and saying "don't use this", however I do see where you're coming from and will update the OP to better reflect that it is heavy, since I could understand the confusion there, also the G402 having that same notice is definitely a mistake by me, since the G400 and G402 are very similar. It's probably a mistake I made when C+Ping a review over to tailor toward the G402, since the G402 and G502 are pretty similar, I probably forgot to remove the note at the end indicating that it's too heavy to be used for prolonged periods of time.

    Thanks for pointing that out.

  27. Post #2107
    Levelog's Avatar
    September 2013
    16,941 Posts
    Measure my hands from where to where? A ctrl+f in the doctoral dissertation that is the OP turns up nothing on how to measure your hand.

    Edited:

    Measuring from tip of middle finger to the start of my wrist puts me at about 20-21 cm.

    Edited:

    https://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com...ation-fix.html

    Convenient thing for OP.
    I've got a list of BIOS optimizations for the OP too

  28. Post #2108
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    I've got a list of BIOS optimizations for the OP too
    https://facepunch.com/showthread.php...1#post51154851

    Wrote a post on that a while ago, feel free to list more or tell me which ones in my post are or are not worth doing, you may be more knowledgeable in that aspect than I.

  29. Post #2109
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Measure my hands from where to where? A ctrl+f in the doctoral dissertation that is the OP turns up nothing on how to measure your hand.

    Edited:

    Measuring from tip of middle finger to the start of my wrist puts me at about 20-21 cm.

    Edited:

    https://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com...ation-fix.html

    Convenient thing for OP.
    MarkC isn't needed anymore. Same for rinput.exe and other such things.

    Edited:

    I've got a list of BIOS optimizations for the OP too
    When is your trip to find Atlantis?

    Edited:

    I've added a hand measurement guide to the new OP as well. I'm not sure if it's in the version I sent to Banned? earlier though.

  30. Post #2110
    Levelog's Avatar
    September 2013
    16,941 Posts
    I went to the lost city of Atlanta last year
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  31. Post #2111
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    I went to the lost city of Atlanta last year
    Did you meet r0ach and ask his sage advice on obtaining the optimal bios configuration for the most snappy, raw, and responsive input possible?

    Edited:

    There's a difference between recommendations and saying "don't use this", however I do see where you're coming from and will update the OP to better reflect that it is heavy, since I could understand the confusion there, also the G402 having that same notice is definitely a mistake by me, since the G400 and G402 are very similar. It's probably a mistake I made when C+Ping a review over to tailor toward the G402, since the G402 and G502 are pretty similar, I probably forgot to remove the note at the end indicating that it's too heavy to be used for prolonged periods of time.

    Thanks for pointing that out.
    I assumed you said that about the G402 because of the accelerometer malfunction stuff.

  32. Post #2112
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Did you meet r0ach and ask his sage advice on obtaining the optimal bios configuration for the most snappy, raw, and responsive input possible?

    Edited:



    I assumed you said that about the G402 because of the accelerometer malfunction stuff.
    Not gonna lie, I haven't ever made the G402 malfunction so I have no idea if the accelerometer actually notably affects cursor feeling. I imagine it would though.

  33. Post #2113
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Not gonna lie, I haven't ever made the G402 malfunction so I have no idea if the accelerometer actually notably affects cursor feeling. I imagine it would though.
    If you could track accurately with an accelerometer then we would already be using them over sensors.

    I'm surprised they didn't just use an H lens to increase the tracking speed instead of engineering an accelerometer for a mouse. It'd be so much cheaper for a start.
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  34. Post #2114
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    If you could track accurately with an accelerometer then we would already be using them over sensors.

    I'm surprised they didn't just use an H lens to increase the tracking speed instead of engineering an accelerometer for a mouse. It'd be so much cheaper for a start.
    Yup, throwing a .5x magnification lens into a 3050 would make it actually pretty usable, and since it has no smoothing it'd be pretty nice, only problem is 250 CPI steps native kinda sucks.

  35. Post #2115
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Well with an H lens you'd get effective 125 CPI natives.
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  36. Post #2116
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    Well with an H lens you'd get effective 125 CPI natives.
    Luckily the 3050 doesn't jitter like hell at 1000, it's anywhere above that it does, so the only usable CPIs would be 250/500.

  37. Post #2117
    Gold Member
    SGTNAPALM's Avatar
    October 2007
    28,363 Posts
    MarkC isn't needed anymore. Same for rinput.exe and other such things.
    Is it harmful, though? I've always just thrown it on for every fresh install of Windows just to be sure.

  38. Post #2118
    Ask me about my Zimmerman fetish

    March 2005
    4,233 Posts
    That's pretty similar to how I sound to be quite honest, not bad, the only mistake is that my voice is actually higher pitched. You also don't have really loud trap music playing in the background.

    On-topic:



    Grey Kinzu v1, apparently the seller thinks that is "Black" but that's definitely grey, I'm actually not sure if it's a knockoff shell or what, looks like it has the exact same shell mistakes and logo as my normal Kinzu v1s do. I guess I'll see when it gets here.
    well the seller at least knows what white is.
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  39. Post #2119
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    Reyjr43's Avatar
    November 2010
    1,733 Posts
    On the brightside it's definitely a Kinzu v1, I looked at the lens and mouse feet to be sure, the product number also matches up with what it should be, the weird thing is the Kinzu v1 "Black" that I got actually has a Kinzu v1 White P/N which makes me think it's a weird knockoff shell, not that I care. I could just put the PCBs into my broken Sudden Attack's shell if it's required.

  40. Post #2120
    Gold Member
    Chubbs's Avatar
    April 2011
    6,701 Posts
    Is it harmful, though? I've always just thrown it on for every fresh install of Windows just to be sure.
    It'll probably cause a bit (like a few microseconds most likely) of input delay and polling jitter. It isn't actively helping you so you should remove it. Same for anything else which interacts with your usb ports.