1. Post #1
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts


    Original OP by G-Guy. Modified by Banned?. Recreated with G-Guy's permission. Reyjr43 and Chubbs wrote all the recommendations and everything in the OP at this point other than the foreword.

    The mouse. The most important peripheral a computer can have. It's kind of hard to use a computer without it. It's even harder to play a game without one and can be very frustrating to play with a crappy one. Don't game with a crappy mouse. Get a good one. It doesn't even have to be that complex or expensive either! We're talking about real mice here, not some gamer bling piece of crap!

    Mouse Basics

    Windows Mouse Settings
    Most people will tell you the ONLY acceptable Windows mouse settings are the ones shown in this image, they would be mostly correct in doing so as these settings will give you no added acceleration or count scaling. It is also important to note that games using raw input will ignore these settings entirely since they grab mouse input directly rather than from Windows. I would say that most people should be using these settings, however, I will now go into slightly more detail on what they do and how changing them will affect your mouse response:
    - "Enhanced Pointer Precision" - This checkbox enables/disables Windows' own built-in mouse acceleration. This acceleration is very poorly implemented and as such should not be used. For example, changing your mouse's polling rate will cause drastic changes in cursor response when using Windows accel. Just leave it off.
    - "Pointer Speed" - This slider controls your Windows sensitivity/scaling, with 11 possible values ranging from 1/11 to 11/11 which are not very intuitive until you know what they mean. The sensitivity change is achieved by a simple multiplication of the raw counts from your mouse by a fixed value X based on the slider value, show below:

    As you can see, values above 6/11 have positive multipliers. This means that they will all cause some degree of pixel skipping because a single count now becomes 1.5/2/2.5 ect. counts, which will move you two or more pixels. Similarly, values under 6/11 will cause your counts to be halved, so a single count now becomes 0.75/0.5/0.25 counts, giving your mouse a slight deadzone due to Windows not accepting movements of amounts other than integers. So where do these decimal counts go? The answer is simple, Windows stores them in memory to be added on to the next set of counts reported. These properties mean that we can deduce a set of "safe" Windows sensitivities: 6/11, 4/11, 3/11, 2/11 and 1/11. 5/11 is not included because it causes every fourth count to be dropped, making each 4th pixel feel "sticky".
    - Ok, but why would I want to use a Windows sensitivity other than 6/11? - You probably don't want to to be honest, but there are quite a few reasons why you could, the most common one is so that you can run your mouse at a higher CPI which it performs better/is native at, with it still being at the effective CPI you want. An example of this is the Deathadder 3G, which tracks better at 1800 CPI than on its other steps. Of course, I'm not saying that you should just go crank up your CPI and drop your Windows sensitivity on any mouse since most of the time you will simply get a loss of precision due to the added deadzone as well as many sensors enabling stronger smoothing at higher CPI's.

    Laser/Optical
    Just buy an optical. There has not been a single laser mouse without issues like acceleration and snapping you can't turn off. Full explanation below...

    I'll revise what he said to be an actually defendable point (since there are some laser illuminated optical sensors which have decent acceleration characteristics, though nobody has actually ever been able to provide the idtities of said sensors to me but it is very possible for them to exist). However, you aren't going to get a sensor like that in your gaming laser mouse.

    Instead you will get an Avago ADNS 9500/9800, or vendor-specific revision of said sensor, for example both Razer and Logitech have had modified sensors made specifically for them in the past by Avago (now owned by Pixart, but they make the same sensors). Note that the two laser mice people have metioned recently in this thread (Corsair M65 and CM Mizar) use the ADNS 9800. Both the ADNS 9500 and 9800 have well documented acceleration and prediction issues with the actual sensor due to the illumination used.

    The issue of mouse acceleration is present on all traditional optical-type sensors, both LED ("optical") and laser illuminated since they are the same basic design and principle with different methods of illumination. However, LED illuminated sensors have been gotten to the point where they are basically 1:1 tracking for high end models (the three most common sensors you're going to be finding in your gaming mouse tody are the Pixart 3310, Avago 3090 and Avago 3050, or variants thereof like the sensors avago make for Razer/Logitech) simply because it is far easier to do compared to laser. This has not really been achieved yet for the common laser illuminated sensors. Note that this doesn't account for the actual implementation of the sensor, for example the PureTrak Valor used an Avago 3090 and yet was an abysmal heap of trash.

    There is also the matter of angle snapping on Avago sensors, which is technically not possible to remove due to the design of them, and supposedly because they are based of HP printers (citation provided below). However it is basically removed for all intents and purposes on their newer offerings.

    Don't even mention the Philips Twin-Eye thing, I like my mice to stop tracking when I lift them, not spaz about wildly.

    Skylits much better than mine explanation of the differences between LED and laser illumination.

    DPI/CPI
    CPI stands for "Counts Per Inch", DPI stands for "Dots Per Inch". They are the same thing, even though they sound like they mean different things. CPI represents how many pixels the mouse will move over an inch. It's another form of sensitivity that you can program into the mouse independent of the game you want to play. Companies like to boast about how their mice go to up 8000 CPI and how awesome that is for gaming, but in reality if you actually crank your CPI up high then usually your sensor will do one or more of these things: Jitter like mad, due to the tiny amount of image variance required to actually make the mouse register a count causing it to register lots of unintended counts in every direction whilst moving; Enable huge amounts of smoothing in an attempt to either counteract jitter, this is commonly what happens newer sensors; Experience greatly lowered max tracking speed for various reasons, this is what happens on a lot of old sensors when you use them on their higher CPI steps since it was standard practice to simply have two native CPI steps, one of which was 400 or 800 and the other was generally at the limit of what the sensor could achieve. The CPI you use will mostly depend on the sensitivity you play at, with FPS and other aim intensive games generally being played on 400-800 CPI.

    Buttons
    Most modern mice come with around 5 buttons: a left mouse button (LMB), a right mouse button (RMB), a button under the scroll wheel (MMB) and two side buttons. The exception to this are MMO mice, which usually have half a keyboard attached to the side of them. However, all MMO mice are laser (apart from the as yet unreleased Corsair Scimitar Pro) as is so they're already at a disadvantage, and to make matters worse for them they usually also weigh an absolute ton and have abysmal firmwares. You just generally don't need a dozen buttons on your mouse unless you play something like EVE Online.

    Weight
    The heavier your mouse is, the more intertia it has. The more intertia an object has, the more force is required to make it change its velocity. The more force you have to apply to the mouse, the less precisely you can control it. More weight also means more static friction, which means making pixel movements is harder, especially from a standstill. Anything over 95g is barbarian tier and should be avoided. This applies even if you are a hench greek god of a mousing machine: Even cooller (pictured below) used a WMO, which weighs in at slightly under 80g.


    Mouse/Hand Size
    It is fairly important for your mouse to be the right size for your hand. The larger your hand, the larger the mice that you can comfortably grip. However, it is also possible for your hands to be too large to grip a mouse, which will result in you having a harder time actually controlling the mouse as well as probable discomfort. Luckily, all of the recommendations below also mention the size of the mouse and the recommended hand size and grip style for using it. You can find out your hand size by measuring it as shown by the red lines in the picture of Reyjr43's hand below:


    Lift-off Distance (LoD)
    How far you have to lift your mouse off the pad before it stops tracking, traditionally quoted in the number of CDs which you need to stack under the mouse until it cant track through the hole in the middle; note that CDs are around 1.2mm thick. Generally lower LoD is considered better as you can stop/start your mouses tracking faster and don't have to lift it as high to do so, though some people do prefer higher LoDs for various reasons. LoD will vary based on your pads material, with hardpads usually raising it slightly compared to cloth pads. The pad material which produces the greatest lowering of LoD compared to cloth is probably frosted glass. Some newer sensors such as the Pixart PMW3310 and PMW3360 can have their LoD customised somewhat.

    What is "native" CPI? Does it make a difference? Does my mouse have it?
    Most modern day sensors (3988, 3310, 3360) can understand CPIs in steps of 50, 80, 90, or 100 due to the DSP scaler so it is a thing of the past, but some sensors like the older 3090 still have a native CPI. Native CPI is a CPI that is not MCU scaled which provides the best "1:1" tracking, when you choose a non-native CPI then the sensor doesn't understand the CPI and will have to average between two native CPIs, for example if you choose 400 CPI when the native is 800 CPI, it will read motions at 800 CPI and then the MCU will drop half of the counts reported by the mouse so that it can achieve 400 CPI. This is often times called "interpolation" but it is not actually interpolation, it is just a CPI achieved by scaling done through the MCU.

    What is smoothing? What does it do? How do I know if my mouse has it?
    Smoothing is data averaging between two points (in this case frames) and when your mouse has smoothing, it takes time for the operation to complete which can make the mouse feel as if it's not moving 1:1 or the cursor is lagging behind where it should be, the 3310, 3988, and 3360 sensors (the most used sensors nowadays) have smoothing inherent on the sensor, the amount for the 3360 is so low it might as well be switched off (2 frames), while the 3988 is set to 4ms on 1150 CPI and below, 8ms on 1600-3150 CPI, and after 3150 CPI the smoothing shoots up to 16ms. Extensive testing has, as far as Reyjr43 and I (Chubbs) are aware, shown that the 3090 has no inherent smoothing on any of its SROMs. Previously it was thought that the 3090s' 4K SROM had smoothing due to the G400s, but it has since been proved that SROM 3b (the 4K SROM) has no smoothing due to its use in the Ninox Aurora. This does not account for the MCU based smoothing of mice like the FinalMouse and Nixeus Revel without beta firmware which will also affect the motion latency.

    What is framerate? Does it matter? Can I feel it?
    Framerate (or FPS) is how often the sensor will take an image, sensors are quite literally little cameras that compare the noise from one image to the next to decide how much the mouse has moved, framerate is very important because if it's too low the sensor will lose the ability to tell how far it has moved and malfunction, the 3090 and 3310 have 6.4k FPS, the AM010 has 5.2k FPS, the 3305DK has 3.6k FPS, and the 3360 and 3988 have 12.5k FPS. You should choose the 3360 and 3988 where applicable because the FPS differences are very noticeable at high movement rates.


    What sensors do I look out for now that I have this knowledge?
    Pixart PMW3360 - Current top of the line sensor, 2 frames of smoothing, 12.5k FPS. It's the best of the best right now, and it's featured in all of Logitech's newer mice (which I will have listed down below.)
    Pixart S3988 - A rather high tier sensor, however it has quite a bit of smoothing as seen above in the smoothing list (4ms minimum), 12.5k FPS. It's mostly used in 2 PCB mice which means the weight is probably really high, I'd recommend looking into the EVGA X5 if you want this sensor with a lightweight.
    Pixart PMW3310 - The middle ground sensor, most mice have this sensor in it, it has quite a bit of smoothing in it, 6.4k FPS. It's used in most of the high price mice, such as the FinalMouse (avoid this mouse, reasons below), the Zowie mice, the Roccat Kone Pure Military, and more.
    Avago ADNS 3090 - Previously Avagos' (now Pixart) top of the line sensor for quite some time, it has no smoothing on any SROM as well as 6.4k FPS. It has been used in a huge variety of mice over the years, such as the G400, original FK/AM, EC eVo and Ninox Aurora as well as many more. Still used today in some Chinese domestic market mice, such as the SteelSeries Rival Rescuer. Note that the 3060/3070/3080/3090 are all the same physical sensor but with different SROMs. When properly implemented this sensor is truly impressive, with the Ninox Aurora being able to track at least 5m/s.
    Avago ADNS S3668 - A Razer exclusive 3060 variant. Has no smoothing, 6.4k FPS and an SROM with an 1800 CPI native step. Used in the Deathadder 3G V2 and V3, Abyssus 1800, Salmosa, Diamondback 3G and Boomslang Titanium Edition. Has a really high max tracking rate, somewhere around 5m/s under optimal conditions in a Deathadder 3G V2. Both Chubbs' and Reyjr43's favourite sensor.
    Avago ADNS S3888 - A Razer exclusive 3080 variant. Has no smoothing, 6.4k FPS and an SROM with an 1800 CPI native step which is interpolated up to 3500 CPI by the mice using it. Used in the Deathadder 3.5G, Abyssus 2014 and Abyssus Mirrored.
    Avago ADNS S3095 - A Logitech exclusive 3090 variant. Has no smoothing, 6.4k FPS. Used in only the G400 (3.5k SROM with 800/3600 CPI native steps) and G400s (4k SROM with 800/4000 CPI native steps). High max tracking rate of around 4m/s in a G400 on the 800 CPI step, though on the 3600 step it only manages around 2m/s.
    STMicroelectronics MLT04 - A top of the line sensor for years, boasting no smoothing and a high FPS of around 10,000, there's debate around what this sensor's FPS is exactly, but we know that it is at least 8,000 due to the ability to poll it at 8kHz in USB 3.0 mode, however it has a low PCS of 1m/s at 125Hz and 1.5m/s max at 250Hz+, this is because of the data path used clamping the maximum counts in each direction to 128.


    Recommended Mice
    Mice are presented in ascending order of PRICE ONLY, if a mouse is no longer in production/available retail then it will be ordered based on the price it normally goes for second hand. Mice that are still in production will be ordered by their usual retail price but will probably have the second hand price listed too. The bolded name in brackets after a recommendation denotes who wrote it.


    Wireless

    Logitech G403 - Wireless - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic, relatively similar in shape to the ECx-A series, except the hump is at the back sort of like the ZA. 18cm+ could claw or palm grip.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system. Mechanical encoder, middle click is known to be too stiff at times.
    Weight - 100g w/o weight, 110g w/ weight. Cable not included.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. No cable, feet are known for scratching on pads. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Price/Value - The G403 Wireless can be found relatively cheaply now, about 75USD on Amazon but there's some on eBay for a cheaper price.

    Logitech G900 - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, the base is larger than the front is, there are small holes between the buttons which could be uncomfortable if your hands are too small, 17-20cm for claw/palm.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system.
    Weight - 110g w/o cable.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. No cable, feet are known for being pretty good. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Price/Value - The G900 can be found relatively cheaply now, about 75USD on Amazon but there's some on eBay for a cheaper price.


    Wired

    Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical (P/N X80 or X08 ONLY) - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - STMicroelectronics MLT04 with a 400 CPI native step. If being run at a polling rate of 125Hz the perfect control speed is 1m/s, after which it negative accelerates. If using custom drivers to increase the polling rate to 250Hz or above the perfect control speed increases to 1.6m/s, after which it negative accelerates. At all polling rates it has a max tracking speed of 2.55m/s. Note that if your WMO's P/N doesn't start X80 or X08 you have an Agilent trash mouse which is truly awful.
    Shape - Ambidextrous. Has a front grip section about 60mm across, which expands towards the butt. Sides are pretty much vertical. Good for palm, claw and fingertip. 18-20cm hands are ideal.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are very light with no pre-travel. After the switches wear down they can click when the mouse is slammed hard into the pad. Scroll wheel is light, but easy to click without accidentally scrolling. No side buttons. HxWxL 39x66x124mm (~62mm grip).
    Weight - About 80g.
    Notes - If you want to extract full performance out of your WMO then you need to use a custom driver such as Sweetlows to force it's polling rate above 125Hz. The cable is nice and flexible. 16ms of click delay. If bought used off eBay it will probably need replacement feet since these are usually fucked from years of usage. I have never experienced a WMO with the stock feet intact so I can't really comment on them. Various people on eBay, such as Takasta, sell them with custom shell with either high gloss or rubberised plastic coatings with (probably illegal) branding from companies such as SteelSeries and Zowie.
    Price/Value - The best price to performance ratio mouse you can buy. Good ones regularly appear for about 5 or less on eBay and in charity shops. I've gotten them for free before from people/companies who would otherwise have just binned them, and quite often you see people putting up bulk lots of WMOs from old offices and such on eBay. Takasta sells his fancy shelled ones (which are guaranteed to be MLT04) for about 20. Honestly there isn't much reason not to own one of these, I play on 80cm/360 and I still own one. Just make sure to check the P/N BEFORE you buy it.

    Microsoft Intellimouse Optical (P/N X80 or X08 ONLY) - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - STMicroelectronics MLT04 with a 400 CPI native step. If being run at a polling rate of 125Hz the perfect control speed is 1m/s, after which it negative accelerates. If using custom drivers to increase the polling rate to 250Hz or above the perfect control speed increases to 1.6m/s, after which it negative accelerates. At all polling rates it has a max tracking speed of 2.55m/s. I would avoid buying any which dont have an X80 or X08 P/N since they won't have an MLT04 in all likelyhood, and will instead have the Agilent garbage sensor.
    Shape - Ambidextrous. Shape is very rounded, nearly the same size and shape as a SteelSeries Xai/Sensei. 17-21cm can probably grip it comfortably. HxWxL is 39x67x123mm with 58mm minimum width.
    Buttons - LMB/RMB use some kind of Omron switches as far as I'm aware, and are stiff and nice to press. The scroll wheel click is nice too, though the actual scroll wheel isn't the best. Has a unique design where it has one side button on each side towards the front of the mouse; on Lennys copy these are mushy with a bit of pre-travel and lots of post travel, and rattle a bit.
    Weight - About 80g.
    Notes - If you want to extract full performance out of your IMO then you need to use a custom driver such as Sweetlows to force it's polling rate above 125Hz. The cable is nice and flexible. 16ms of click delay. If bought used off eBay it will probably need replacement feet since these are usually fucked from years of usage and were just shit plastic to begin with. These are known for their tendency to fall apart. Sometimes Takasta has these in stock with the SteelSeries (not officially licensed of course) mod shells with either glossy or rubberised coatings. You can also pick up just the custom shells off eBay too.
    Price/Value - Can be had on eBay for as little as 7. A really good example could set you back somewhere around 15-20. As with the WMO it is some of the best price to performance ratio out there. Just make sure to check the P/N BEFORE you buy it.

    Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer (P/N X80 or X08 ONLY) - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - STMicroelectronics MLT04 with a 400 CPI native step on most revisions, and 450 CPI native step on what Reyjr calls the "gray shell ones". If being run at a polling rate of 125Hz the perfect control speed is 1m/s, after which it negative accelerates. If using custom drivers to increase the polling rate to 250Hz or above the perfect control speed increases to 1.6m/s for 400 CPI models (slightly less for 450 CPI models), after which it negative accelerates. At all polling rates it has a max tracking speed of 2.55m/s for both 400 CPI and 450 CPI. I would avoid buying any which dont have an X80 or X08 P/N since they won't have an MLT04 in all likelyhood, and will instead have the Agilent garbage sensor.
    Shape - Ergonomic and fairly large, good for palm, fingertip and maybe claw. Probably 18-21cm hands. HxWxL is 43x69x132mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are fairly nice and light, the actual switches are some sort of Omron with earlier models being Japanese Omrons and later ones being D2FC-F-7Ns. I believe that the scroll is the same as on a WMO but with a different MMB switch, Reyjrs copy had an issue where it was grinding when she scrolled it. Has two side buttons on the left side which are pretty mushy.
    Weight - 108g
    Notes - If you want to extract full performance out of your IMO then you need to use a custom driver such as Sweetlows to force it's polling rate above 125Hz. The cable is nice and flexible. 16ms of click delay. If bought used off eBay it will probably need replacement feet since these are usually fucked from years of usage and were just shit plastic to begin with. Sometimes Takasta and other eBay sellers have these in stock with custom shells with either glossy or rubberised coatings. One eBay seller selling legit SteelSeries (not officially licensed of course) mod ones at the moment is Taishan1980 (search for "Intellimouse" on their store page). You can also just pick up a custom shell on its own from a myriad of eBay sellers.
    Price/Value - Can be had on eBay for as little as 8 or so if you're willing to wait for one to appear. The general price is somewhere around 13. New in box ones can be up to 30 but turn up much more regularly than new in box WMO's and IMO's. Still great price to performance even at 30. Just make sure to check the P/N BEFORE you buy it.

    Logitech G100s - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart AM010 with 250 steps being native. Malfunctions at 2.5m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, it is considered the "Egg shape maus" by Chubbs, 16-20cm could fingertip, 16-18cm for claw.
    Buttons - Omron switches, these mice are known for having mushy switches that aren't much in the way of tactile. Optical encoder, the wheel is known to scroll before tactile feedback is given, this can cause phantom scrolls, middle click is soft.
    Weight - 85g w/o weight, 95g w/ weight. Cable not included.
    Notes - 0.8ms of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is plastic, relatively stiff and doesn't hold shape too well, very thin so it should fit in mouse bungees easily, feet are pretty smooth. Build quality can be pretty iffy at times. The Omron switches it uses are known for double clicking after around 6 months of use. Click delay can be as low as 3ms.
    Price/Value - The G100s can be found on eBay for as cheap as 11USD new w/o box, many of them can be found new in box for around 20USD. Medium price to performance ratio due to its overall mediocrity.

    SteelSeries Kinzu v1 - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - STMicroelectronics VT5366. Malfunctions at 1.7m/s.
    Shape - Ambi, it is the same width the whole way across, very low to the pad, it is too small to palm. 15-18cm could claw grip it pretty comfortably, users with larger hands may find that they will have to fingertip it.
    Buttons - TTC switches on most versions, some have D2F-01F Omrons, they are in between the Zowie FK and Zowie EC in terms of stiffness, they are relatively stiff due to the shell being one piece the whole way. Mechanical encoder, it scrolls very loudly due to how loose it is in the shell, middle click is soft.
    Weight - 70g w/o cable.
    Notes - No smoothing, but the tracking code is busted and there is retarded amounts of acceleration at >1m/s. Cable is braided, it's actually a very smooth and thin braided cable that isn't annoying, cable is known to break over time, most have plastic feet but some have real Teflon feet. Click delay can be as low as 0.9ms. Do not buy one with software version 1.0.10 installed, and do not install 1.0.10 if you own one. It enables insane amounts of angle snapping that cannot be removed. It is permanent.
    Price/Value - The Kinzu v1 can be found relatively cheap if you are patient, I have gotten 3 of them for around 18USD. I got a few special editions with Omrons and real Teflon feet for 45 and 60USD. I have seen them sell on eBay for as cheap as 7USD.

    Razer Deathadder 3G V2/V3 - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Avago ADNS S3668 with a 1800 CPI native step, which is MCU interpolated down to 900 and 450 via count dropping. Has a perfect control speed of ~4m/s and a max tracking speed somewhere above 5m/s. No inherent smoothing. 3G V2 has a 2CD LoD and 3G V3 has a 3CD LoD.
    Shape - Ergonomic. Can be used by all grips, though palm or claw is preferred. 18-21cm hands are ideal. HxWxL is 42.5x70x128mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are Omron D2FC-G-7S switches, which are light and nice. However the shell design means that they're fairly mushy with some pre-travel. The side buttons are nice and crisp, satisfying to press. Scroll wheel encoder is a fairly dire optical affair, which is notoriously unreliable, mine has effectively failed due to dirt getting into it and making it scroll in random directions rather than the way you want it to. Reyjrs has become incredibly stiff over time. The scroll wheel click is also fairly stiff, which could be an issue with how light the wheel is if you arent careful. Profile button is on the bottom, as unlike newer Razer mice the profiles are stored in onboard flash.
    Weight - 108g +/-3g.
    Notes - Most firmwares have 16ms of click delay. The only two which don't are 1.27 and 1.28NDC, both of which have about 3ms of click delay. Of the two I would recommend 1.28NDC since it has prediction toggled off. Should only be used at 500Hz since neither 1.27 or 1.28NDC are capable of sustaining a stable 1000Hz report rate, though there are two or three firmwares which are capable of doing so. Older firmwares are known to have fairly bad jitter, though both 1.27 and 1.28NDC have this mostly fixed. The side buttons have been known to cave in and require repairing. The coating is known for turning into a disgusting primordial mush over time, so most people consider it optimal to decoat the mouse using either solvents, such as isopropyl alcohol, or mechanical methods such as sanding. The LoD can be lowered using the "tape trick", which involves covering up part of the sensor aperture with tape, at the cost of lowering PCS. My favourite mouse of all time.
    Price/Value - Available on eBay for 15-30, though do sometimes appear much cheaper. I would advise going for a 3G V2 if possible due to the lower LoD. Top tier price to performance ratio.

    Logitech G400(s) - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Avago ADNS S3095 with 800/3600 (or 4000) CPI steps being native. Malfunctions at about 4m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic with a "1-3-1" (three fingers on top, one on right) build in mind. Relatively high, 18-20cm could claw or palm it. HxWxL is 43x70x130mm, though grip is considerably thinner than 70mm.
    Buttons - Omron switches, tactility changes as the shell wears down, a new shell can be nice and tactile, while an older one can be mushy. Optical encoder, the wheel is known to scroll before tactile feedback is given, this can cause phantom scrolls, middle click is soft.
    Weight - 109g w/o cable
    Notes - G400 has no smoothing, G400s has about 1.1-1.2ms of smoothing and a filter driver. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is plastic and known to break over time. Click delay can be as low as 1.7ms.
    Price/Value - A G400(s) can be found on eBay for relatively cheap, I got my G400 for 20USD which is a very good price to performance ratio. New in box G400s can be found for around 50USD, which is really not worth it on the price to performance front compared to simply buying a brand new Nixeus Revel.

    Ninox Aurora - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Avago ADNS 3090 with 400/800/1600/3200/4000 CPI steps. LoD is around 2mm (just under 2CDs). Perfect control (and max tracking) speed is 5m/s if you have thick enough skates on it, if your skates are too thin it can have issues on some pads which will lower the malfunction speed. Smoothing and angle snapping are completely toggled off.
    Shape - Small and ambidextrous. Designed more for fingertip and claw grip than palm, though it can be palmed if you are determined to do so. I have 20cm hands, and they are about the biggest that can comfortably use it. HxWxL is 38x61x117.5mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are crisp and fairly light. Scroll wheel is a mechanical TTC encoder with the default light tensioning, which feels quite nice to me. Has only side buttons on the left side, which are fairly stiff but not to the point of being a hindrance. CPI switch is recessed behind the wheel, you won't press it by accident.
    Weight - 70g without cable.
    Notes - Created by bst with the sage guidance of the ESReality hardware forum to try and create a worthy successor to the WMO, this was almost the greatest mouse in history. Sadly the firmware was modified at the last minute by a complete maniac who added 50ms of debounce delay to all buttons on the mouse whenever one is pressed; making it all but unusable for its intended task of playing Quake (since you can't RJ properly with it). This issue cannot be fixed since the Aurora doesn't have a reflashable MCU. The actual click delay is pretty good at around 4ms. The build quality is also very basic, it is normal for the mouse to have drastically different feeling RMB and LMB out of the box, which can be fixed by opening the mouse and bending some plastic, my LMB has horrific pre-travel and is mushy for instance. It is also normal for some redundant bits of plastic to fall off inside the mouse and rattle around which, whilst not affecting performance, is annoying. The cable is thick rubber and quite stiff, as well as having a strange ridged texture. Due to its stiffness it will get caught on stuff, including itself, if you don't arrange it properly. Stock skates are 0.6mm PTFE, and it comes with a replacement set. The LEDs are very bright and shine through the bottom shell of the mouse due to the plastic used. Do not even consider installing the software for the mouse as clicking the "Reset Profile" button will brick the mouse, rendering it essentially unusable. Luckily the default profiles include both a 400 CPI (Blue LED) and 800 CPI (Red LED) setting so this isn't an issue. My current daily driver.
    Price/Value - Available via Amazon UK new in box straight from bst himself for 20, though since it is out of production once they're sold out you'll have to resort to eBay. Even accounting for the highly questionable build quality and general QC it's still well worth it if you can get past the debounce issue. Less available in the US. New in box ones come with a Ninox sticker and set of replacement skates.

    Logitech G402 - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart AM010 with steps of 80 being native. Malfunctions at about 2.5m/s and is interpolated upward to about 12m/s. Note that the interpolation isn't particularly effective since it is based off the last count sent by the mouse (meaning that if you malfunction it and stop dead your cursor will keep on going).
    Shape - Ergonomic, relatively similar in shape to the G400(s), except the right side with the lip is now ridged rather than rubberized, this can cause slipping. 18-20cm could claw or palm it.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system. Optical encoder, the wheel is known to scroll before tactile feedback is given, this can cause phantom scrolls, middle click is soft.
    Weight - 109g w/o cable.
    Notes - No smoothing at or below 2000 CPI. No noticeable acceleration. Stiff braided cable, feet are rather large and smooth, some people have said the foot near the sensor of the mouse is plastic and will begin to add friction over time. Click delay can be as low as 4ms. Not recommended for FPS games.
    Price/Value - The G402 can be found relatively cheaply now, it can be found on eBay for around 20-40USD new in box.

    Roccat Kone Pure Military - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3310 with 100 CPI steps in software up to 5000 CPI. LoD can be adjusted in software. Malfunction speed >5m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic shape which is really only good for palm as it relies on your hand making contact with the coating of the mouse. About 18-20cm hands. HxWxL is 35x70x115mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are Omron D2FC-F-7N, which are nice. Has two buttons behind the wheel to cycle up/down through CPI presets. Two side buttons. Scroll wheel is probably the best on any mouse. Very nice ALPS encoder, can scroll left/right as well as up/down by tilting it to the side.
    Weight - 93g.
    Notes - Cable is braided. Feet are large so they should glide well. Generally really well built by all accounts. Click delay is about 8ms.
    Price/Value - It has been discontinued in favour of the new 2017 Kone Pure and the only way to get it in most places is second hand. Can be picked up on eBay for as little as 20 used, though they are rarely appearing at the moment and probably average around 30. The only new in box one I've seen was 80. Price to performance really depends on how much you want the build quality and scroll wheel, because that's the only real reason to use this over any other mouse.

    Nixeus Revel - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3360 with 400/800/1200/1600/2000/3200/5000/12000 CPI steps. Low LoD of around 1CD. Perfect control speed is >5m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, has "/_\" shaped sides. Good for palm, claw and fingertip. About 18-21cm can grip it comfortably. Comes in both rubberised black and glossy white plastic. HxWxL is 39x68x126mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB use Omron D2FC-F-7N(20M) switches and are stiff. Some people report that their buttons are very stiff and can jam due to a shell defect, but that is apparently fixed. Scroll wheel is mechanical TTC encoder. Side buttons on only the left side. Side buttons have some pre-travel. 7ms of click delay. CPI switch is behind the wheel.
    Weight - 85g
    Notes - Needs to be updated to the latest beta firmware, found on Nixeus' site, to remove the MCU smoothing. Software is currently in the alpha stage. Some people report that the feet cause the bottom of the mouse to scrape on their pad, though this was not present on Reyjr's copy. Nixeus will also ship you replacement feet to fix this issue free of charge. Some people report high variance in the RMB and LMB, which was also present on Reyjr's copy. Mine hasn't arrived yet so I can't comment on that. Good customer service.
    Price/Value - 36 on Amazon right now, which is good value for a 3360, even with the possible build quality issues.

    Logitech G303 - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, it has a diamond shape that many find to be uncomfortable. 16-20cm could fingertip it pretty comfortably, 16-18cm for claw.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system. Optical encoder, the wheel is known to scroll before tactile feedback is given, this can cause phantom scrolls, middle click is soft.
    Weight - Roughly 90g w/o cable.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is braided, smooth and stiff, too large to fit in many mouse bungees, feet are known for being pretty good. Many copies have lens rattle, resulting in unwanted cursor movement when doing flicks. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Price/Value - The G303 can be found relatively cheaply now, it can be found on Amazon for about 40USD but there's some on eBay for a cheaper price.

    EVGA Torq X5 Optical - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart S3988 with 50 CPI steps in software.
    Shape - Small ambidextrous shape with no butt. Good for claw and fingertip. 16-18cm hands recommended. HxWxL is 39x65x118mm.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB are Omrons of some kind. Has two side buttons on each side. CPI switch behind the scroll wheel. Scroll wheel apparently has bad build quality issues.
    Weight - 85g.
    Notes - Braided cable. Feet are small and can cause friction issues. 8ms click delay. The firmware is known to drop reports.
    Price/Value - Available for about 45 new off Amazon. Can be had used for much less if you're willing to wait, though normal used price is about 35. If you want a 3988 then this is probably the best value mouse you can go for.

    Logitech G Pro - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, the base is much thinner than the top, which can cause stability issues, 16-20cm could fingertip, 16-18cm for claw.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system. Mechanical encoder, middle click is known to be too stiff at times.
    Weight - 83g w/o cable.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is braided, smooth and stiff, too large to fit in many mouse bungees, feet are known for scratching on pads. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Price/Value - The G Pro can be found relatively cheaply now, it can be found on Amazon for about 50USD but there's some on eBay for a cheaper price.

    Logitech G403 - Wired - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic, relatively similar in shape to the ECx-A series, except the hump is at the back sort of like the ZA. 18cm+ could claw or palm grip.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system. Mechanical encoder, middle click is known to be too stiff at times.
    Weight - 85g w/o weight, 95g w/ weight. Cable not included.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Cable is braided, smooth and stiff, too large to fit in many mouse bungees, feet are known for scratching on pads. Click delay can be as low as 4ms.
    Price/Value - The G403 can be found relatively cheaply now, it can be found on Amazon for about 50USD but there's some on eBay for a cheaper price.

    Zowie FK1/2/+ - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3310 with 400/800/1600/3200 CPI steps. Low LoD of around 1CD, which can be raised/lowered via holding buttons when the mouse is being plugged in. Perfect control speed is >5m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, thin grip at front and middle with a large butt and has "\_/" shape sides. Fairly low. Good for palm, claw, and fingertip. 16-18cm for FK2, 18-20cm for FK1, 19-21.5cm for FK1+. HxWxL is 38x68x128mm (~62mm grip) for FK1+, 37x67x128mm (~60mm grip) for FK1, 36x64x128mm (~58mm grip) for FK2.
    Buttons - Fairly stiff Huano switches for LMB/RMB. Two side buttons on each side, though only one side can be activated at a time. Fairly meh optical scroll encoder which is also pretty loud. CPI switch is on the bottom.
    Weight - 85g (FK2), 90g (FK1), 95g (FK1+).
    Notes - No software. Good build quality. Nice cable, stock feet are really thin (0.45mm if I recall correctly) but otherwise nice with a good glide. Firmware is fairly poor; newer batches (final batch of yellow scroll, all white/black scroll) have ~8.9ms click latency, older batches of yellow scroll FK1/2, as well as the original FK, have 15ms of click latency. Mine (an old batch yellow scroll FK1) drops polls at 1000Hz, and occasionally malfunctions.
    Price/Value - On the expensive side, fairly low bang for buck considering that its a 3310. However of the "high tier" new mice the FK1/2/+ are the best built and QC'd. They're also pretty much the only ambidextrous mice which offer side buttons on either side. Comes with a set of replacement skates, which are normally pretty expensive.

    Zowie ZA11/12/13 - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3310 with 400/800/1600/3200 CPI steps. Low LoD of around 1CD, which can be raised/lowered via holding buttons when the mouse is being plugged in. Perfect control speed is >5m/s.
    Shape - Ambidextrous, grip that thins towards the front and middle with a larger butt. Sides are "\_/" shape. Has a noticable raised hump on the back. Good for palm and claw. 16-18cm for ZA13, 18-20cm for ZA12, 19-21.5cm for ZA11. HxWxL is 40x67x128mm (60mm grip) for ZA11, 39x64x124mm (58mm grip) for ZA12, 38x62x120 (56mm grip) for ZA13.
    Buttons - Fairly stiff Huano switches for LMB/RMB. Two side buttons on each side, though only one side can be activated at a time. Uses the same meh optical scroll wheel encoder as the other Zowie mice, which is loud. CPI switch on the bottom.
    Weight - 85g (ZA13), 90g (ZA12), 95g (ZA13).
    Notes - No software. Good build quality. Nice cable, stock feet are really thin (0.45mm if I recall correctly) but otherwise nice with a good glide. Has 8.9ms of click latency.
    Price/Value - On the expensive side, fairly low bang for buck considering that its a 3310. Comes with a set of replacement skates, which are normally pretty expensive.

    Zowie EC1/2-A - (Chubbs)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3310 with 400/800/1600/3200 CPI steps. Low LoD of around 1CD which can be raised/lowered via holding buttons when the mouse is being plugged in. Perfect control speed is >5m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic, good for palm, claw, and fingertip. 16-18cm for EC2-A, 18-21.5cm for EC1-A.
    Buttons - LMB and RMB have stiff Huano switches. Two side buttons which have a lot of pre-travel. Scroll is the same fairly meh optical encoder from the FK1/2/+. CPI switch is on the bottom.
    Weight - 93g (EC2-A), 97g (EC1-A).
    Notes - No software. Nice cable, stock feet are really thin (0.45mm if I recall correctly) but otherwise nice with a good glide. Firmware is fairly poor; newer batches (with the new Zowie logo) have ~8.9ms click latency, and older batches of EC2-A have 15ms of click latency. Questionable build quality and QC.
    Price/Value - On the expensive side, fairly low bang for buck considering that its a 3310. Comes with a set of replacement skates, which are normally pretty expensive.

    Logitech G502 - (Reyjr43)
    Sensor - Pixart PMW3366 with steps of 50 being native. Malfunctions at >10m/s.
    Shape - Ergonomic, relatively similar in shape to the G402 except without the right side having a lip that makes it hard to hold two fingers underneath the mouse. 17-20cm for claw/palm.
    Buttons - Omron switches, if the copy you get is good, they will feel and sound similar, they're very soft and tactile due to the button tensioning system.
    Weight - 120g w/o weight, 140g w/ weight. Cable not included.
    Notes - 2 frames of smoothing. No noticeable acceleration. Stiff braided cable, feet are rather large and smooth, some people have said the foot near the sensor of the mouse is plastic and will begin to add friction over time. Click delay can be as low as 4ms. Not recommended for FPS games.
    Price/Value - 55USD retail, which is low price to performance. Can be had out of box on eBay for around 25USD, which is more acceptable.


    Avoid at (mostly) all costs:
    Any and all VCSEL illuminated sensors they all have 5-10% SRAV (speed related accuracy variance) both positive and negative, they see every single crease and crevice in your mousepad and this will change the tracking, this is undesirable because it makes building muscle memory very difficult due to the random positive and negative acceleration.
    Any wireless mouse with the exception of the G403 & G900 they all have problems with polling rate (locked to 500Hz or lower), dropped reports due to horribly designed firmware, shit click latency, cheap sensors, and heavy weights, all of the things you don't want combined into one.
    Cypress Optical Checkerboard this laser sensor had one variant that was meant for gaming (CYONS2001) but most companies cheaped out and used the CYONS1001U which was meant for hard pads, due to this the sensor will malfunction at an incredibly low 0.3m/s on cloth pads, the majority of them also used the pre-created firmware by Cypress which causes double-clicking issues in these mice over short periods of time due to the low debounce delay.
    Philips TwinEye Sensor for a long time this sensor was actually acceptable for a laser sensor due to lack of smoothing and other motion delay, given that you had a hard pad and didn't mind the low malfunction speed (2.5m/s-3m/s) but due to recent changes in the way the sensor worked, they began to use a thing called CPI/DPI dampening, the CPI dynamically scales up as the mouse moves faster, this can cause a feeling of acceleration, pixel walk (the sensor being unable to decide if it's in a state of moving or not), and the sensor straight up ignores small enough movements, making pixel precise movements very difficult.
    SteelSeries Kinzu v2/v3 terrible click latency (20ms+) and awful sensors (3305DK and 3050) both of which have rather low malfunction speeds. Avoid.
    SteelSeries Kana v1 terrible click latency (12ms+) and awful sensor (3305DK with H lens) has a high enough malfunction speed, but low FPS and freaks out on coloured mouse pads. Avoid.
    SteelSeries Rival 300/500/700 terrible firmware which causes it to malfunction all the time. Has a terrible shape which can cause it to roll over your hand due to the enormous back but tiny grip width, as well as being incredibly heavy (>100g) and having shit LMB/RMB switches which are so mushy that they defy comparison with other objects. Avoid.
    Puretrak Valor fucking terrible mouse. They took the A3090 and somehow ruined it. That's all I have to say.
    Razer (apart from some of their old discontinued mice, likely listed above) you currently have to install Synapse to change most of the settings on their mice, the older 3G and 3.5G should be fine, but the Elite and Chroma do not save settings on the mouse, meaning you must install Synapse which is known for some sketchy things.
    Mionix they don't care enough to put out firmware updates that are pretty much required due to click latency issues on the Mionix mice, being upwards of 12-15ms. Not good for any type of gaming.
    Func/Fnatic Gear they were supposed to put out a firmware update for the Flick G1 to fix the LoD (which is 4+ CD) months ago, they have yet to reply and have since gone silent.
    Finalmouse they have been caught lying time and time again, claiming they had a custom lens designed by Pixart, claiming they wrote their own firmware when they did not, claiming they were going to release a tool to disable MCU smoothing then not doing it.
    Cougar they have firmware designed by the ODMs they use, click latency is always 12-15ms. Not good for any type of gaming.
    Corsair they have firmware designed by the ODMs they use, click latency can be good on some mice but is usually cranked up in firmware updates. Not good for any type of gaming.
    Coolermaster they have firmware designed by the ODMs they use, the firmwares in their mice almost always turn out to be garbage and have severe tracking issues.
    ASUS their mice always have horrible click latency, the Sica was released at >20ms click latency and later toned down to 15ms, the Gladius released at a click latency which was initially good and then they cranked it up to 15ms in a recent firmware update.
    Genius they were supposed to release a firmware to fix many issues the mouse had, including click latency, the firmware update never came. The software is bugged to hell.


    Recommended Mouse Pads

    PureTrak - PureTrak makes the Talent, which is a really nice 19"x14" mouse pad. Top tier. Buy them directly from PureTrak. (Chubbs)
    Zowie - They makes top tier mice, they make top tier mouse pads too. The SR and TF-X series pads are their two latest and they have both large and medium sizes. Buy them directly from BenQ. I have not found them cheaper than on their own website. (Banned?)
    Artisan - I've never used an Artisan mouse pad but people seem to really like them. They're also pricey as fuck. (Banned?)
    Razer Goliathus Clones - The Razer Goliathus is a perfectly fine mouse pad that comes in several sizes, but you can find clones of it for cheaper than actual Razer ones. Like this one for example. (Banned?)
    Icemats - G L A S S M O U S E P A D S. You're only going to be finding these on eBay since SteelSeries (originally called Icemat) no longer make them. They're considered by many to be the top tier of mousepads. (Chubbs)


    [u]Identifying specific mouse revisions[u]
    - The bolded name in brackets is the person who wrote the guide.

    -Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical (and other Microsoft MLT04 mice) (Chubbs) - Not all WMOs were born equal, some were blessed with the mighty STMicroelectronics MLT04, whilst others were cursed to bear the Agilent Q2024. To ensure you are getting a WMO with the correct sensor you should check that the circled part of the P/N in this image reads X80 or X08. If it reads anything else it is Agilent trash fit only for being used to house other mice, for example a Deathadder 3G or Zowie FK1. A real WMO will have the shiny Microsoft Genuine sticker up front, which is also shown in the image, and will be identified by your computer as a "Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical", possibly with slight variations such as no "Microsoft". The sensor aperture is also very distinctive, if it doesn't look like the picture then it might be a fake.

    -Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer (Chubbs) - There are quite a lot of revisions of the IME, however, they all appear to fit into one of 3 categories.
    - MLT04 400 CPI - The more common of the two MLT04 variants, owing to it being in more revisions of the mouse than the 450 CPI one. Performs identically to a WMO. Identifiable by having a shell which is not grey and a P/N which starts with X80 or X08, as is with all Microsoft MLT04 mice.
    - MLT04 450 CPI - The less common MLT04 variant. Has a native 450 CPI step rather than the 400 CPI native step of all other MLT04 mice. Can be identified by its grey shell and P/N which starts with X80 or X08.
    - Agilent trash - It is possible you will find an IME with a P/N which does NOT start with X80 or X08. These mice have the dreaded Agilent trash sensor, with a malfunction speed of 0.3m/s and skipping out the ass.

    -Razer Deathadder 3G/3.5G (Chubbs) - The DA 3G came in multiple revisions:
    - 3G V1 - Unreleased. Only ever shown on display at one or two LAN events in 2006/7. It was reportedly utter shit too, with lots of skipping. I don't know how to identify one of these, and I don't think anyone else can either. Not that it matters since the only people who would want to and have the means to source such a mouse will already have the ability to identify it.
    - 3G V2 - The first released revision of the mouse. Has the lowest LoD of all DA's at around 2CD's. Made out of nicer materials than later revisions. The lowest CPI step, advertised as 450, is closer to 520. Uses a different PCB shape to the V3 and 3.5G. This is the revision you should be aiming for. This can be identified via the boxes "DeathAdder" text being a plain, non-shiny white and advertising 1800 DPI. The other method is to check that the label does NOT have a Razer logo on the top right corner of it. The plastic under the label should be smooth/shiny, unlike all other Deathadders. Looking into the sensor should have a dull red light for sensor illumination, this is only present on V2s as V3s and later are fully infrared.
    - 3G V3 - The final, and second released, revision of the 3G. Has an LoD of around 3CD's, which is about the maximum that is usable for most people. The lowest step is exactly 450 CPI, as advertised. This revision is definitely inferior to the V2, however, it is still a very good mouse and is definitely worthy of usage. Can be identified by the boxes "DeathAdder" text being a shiny plain silver colour and advertising 1800 DPI. The label should have a Razer logo in the top right corner and when peeled back should reveal rough/matte plastic.
    - 3.5G - Has an unusably high 4CD LoD, as well as a different sensor, the S3888, which adds an interpolated (I think) 3500 CPI step. However, since the S3688 of the 3G and the S3688 of the 3.5G are incredibly similar, this mouses' tracking performance, aside from the LoD issues, is near identical to the 3G V3 due to the fact that they use the same PCB design. Older firmware's have jitter issues and need to be updated. Basically unusable, do not buy one of these unless you have a very particular reason to do so and know what you are doing. Can be identified by the box advertising 3500 DPI and the boxes "DeathAdder" text being shiny and rainbow coloured. The label will be mostly identical to the label on the V3 but with different model numbers.
    - 3.5G Black Edition - A 3.5G with no LEDs and an opaque black scroll wheel rather than the usual translucent one. Performs identical to a 3.5G assuming they are on the same firmware, though these came with the fixed jitter firmwares out of the box.
    - Deathadder Left Handed Edition - A 3.5G but for left handed people. If you really want a left handed Deathadder you should probably replace the PCB in this with one from a 3G V3 since it will fit and not have the worlds highest LoD, though you won't be able to have side buttons anymore without some seriously jank wiring.

    -Kinzu Series (Reyjr43) - The Kinzu v1, v2, and v3 are all different mice in the same shape:
    - Kinzu v1 Matte Black and Glossy White - The first Kinzu (Model Number: 62010 & 62011) came in both black matte and glossy white (barring the special editions, that is) this will become a trend in the Kinzu series, so be ready to hear that a lot. The Kinzu v1 is basically the only usable Kinzu, it comes with TTC switches, a mechanical scroll wheel housed in a TTC encoder, and plastic mouse feet. This mouse can be identified pretty easily by the product number and the lens, seen here. as you can see, the lens is kind of "square" and is the biggest visible difference between the Kinzu versions. The A3050 has a similar lens, so do not mistake the two lenses. This version is illuminated with a red LED, about 1-1.5 CD LoD.
    - Kinzu v1 Sudden Attack/Red (Special Editions) - Special versions of the first Kinzu (Model Number: 62011, 62014 & 62023) came in both red matte and glossy red. It comes with D2F-01F for the LMB/RMB, a mechanical scroll wheel housed in a TTC encoder, and real Teflon mouse feet. This version is illuminated with a red LED, 1-1.5 CD LoD.
    - Kinzu v2 (50 gorillion colours edition) - The successor to the Kinzu v1 (Model Number: 62016), it bears a new sensor being the 3305DK without the H lens, the PCS and malfunction speed are relatively close together, both being around 2m/s before the sensor stops tracking, so not that much better than the Kinzu v1, this sensor was actually worse than the Kinzu v1 due to an SROM bug that would make the cursor shoot left or right when moved up and down too often, it also failed to track on many coloured surfaces, it still uses the same mouse feet, mechanical scroll wheel and switches, but this time the click delay is cranked up to 25ms. Effectively unusable, in removing the positive acceleration plaguing the Kinzu they threw in a worse sensor with a lower FPS and cranked up the click delay. Illuminated with a red LED, relatively low LoD. AVOID AT ALL COSTS.
    - Kinzu v2 (Glossy White/Black/Red Pro Editions) - Same as the Kinzu v2 (Model Number: 62016), except it bears Omrons and real Teflon mouse feet. Still has the same incredibly high click delay and awful sensor. AVOID AT ALL COSTS.
    - Kinzu v3 (Matte Black and Glossy White) - In production for a dreadfully short period of about 2-3 months before being permanently discontinued and removed from the SteelSeries site, leaving only the Kinzu v2 Pro, which has since disappeared as well. Finding the model number for this mouse was relatively difficult but it seems to be 62313. It uses an Avago 3050 which can only track accurately up to about 2.5m/s before it malfunctions, it now bears the awful "SteelSeries Orange" switches which they are still using to this day in their mice. The shell is still awful like in the Kinzu v2, but the clicks are exceptionally worse now due to the Oranges being produced by Kailh/Kaihua, these switches are known for being mushy and generally much less crisp than the Omrons or older versions of the Kinzu. 25ms click delay...still... It is better than the Kinzu v2, and to an extent the Kinzu v1 if you don't mind the incredibly high click delay, high LoD, and depending on your other needs. Some versions are illuminated with a red LED, some are infrared. I would recommend that you avoid this mouse!

    -Zowie FK Series (Chubbs) - The FK has come in quite a few different revisions:
    - FK'13 "Yellow Bottom" - The original FK, uses an A3090 with a built in tape trick lens to lower the LoD. Has 300/900/1800 CPI steps, which are 1.5x scaled by the lens to 450/1150/2300 CPI. Only the 1800(2300) step is native and the others are achieved via MCU scaling. This also had the side effect of raising the CPI and dropping the PCS. Has pixel walk. ~16ms of click delay. There are issues with the coating which cause it to break down if you use isopropyl to clean it. In the words of Reyjr43: "they fucking blew". Not really worth owning. Can be identified, as the name suggests, by its borderline luminous yellow base.
    - FK'14 - Released as a revision to the FK'13 to fix the coating issue. Added an issue where at 1000Hz it can only manage 1.5m/s before experiencing negative acceleration, but at 500Hz it can go higher to around 3m/s. Identical in every other way. Even with the new not-terrible coating it still isn't worth owning due to the memetacular negative acceleration. Can be identified by its black base.
    - FK1/2 "Yellow Scroll" - Uses a PMW3310. Performs much better than the old revisions due to being mostly redesigned. Now has 400/800/1600/3200 CPI steps. Perfect control speed is somewhere in the region of 4m/s. Still has the bad click delay on all but the newest batches before it was phased out. If you have the option, try to avoid these. Can be identified by the old Zowie logo (two circles on a square) in yellow on the shell along with a yellow scroll wheel.
    - FK1/2 "White Scroll" - The same as a late batch "Yellow Scroll" FK1/2. All of these have the low click latency. Very good mouse. Can be identified by the new Zowie logo in white on the shell along with a white scroll wheel.
    - FK1/2/+ "Black Scroll" - The same as a "White Scroll" or late batch "Yellow Scroll". Can be identified by its black scroll wheel.


    Known good eBay seller list
    Takasta - "SteelSeries Mod" MLT04 mice, as well as other old mice. Lots of mouse feet too. Ships from Hong Kong.
    Taishan1980 - MTL04 mice including "SteelSeries Mod" ones. Ships from China.
    Jess2189 - MLT04 mice including new in box IME 3.0's. Ships from China.
    ram71199 - Lots of WMO's shipped from the US.


    Looking for a great keyboard to go with your awesome mouse? Check out the Mechanical Keyboard Megathread.

    OP Pastebin

    Changelog (probably not updated very often) posted:
    4.1.1
    - IMO button descriptions courtesy of LennyPenny.
    - IMO HxWxL measurements courtesy of LennyPenny.

    4.1.1
    - Added mouse/hand size section.

    4.1.0
    - Added exact Aurora dimensions for shell and feet.
    - Mentioned extras included with some mice (replacement feet for Aurora, Zowies). Ninox sticker.
    - Mention Zowie mice have no software.
    - Corrected G303 price and moved it to the correct position.
    - Add click delay to MLT04 mice.
    - Add HxWxL for various mice.
    - Added recommendation for ZA series mice.
    - Added recommendation for Roccat KPM.
    - Added recommendation for EVGA X5 Optical.

    4.0.0
    - Reformatted mouse recommendations to more readable format.
    - Mouse recommendations now ordered by price rather than the old system.
    - Rewrote most of CPI section to add more detail.
    - Rewrote button section to add some helpful terminology whilst keeping with its old purpose of roasting MMO mice.
    - Added section on LoD.
    - Generally reordered the first bits under mouse basics to more closely match relevance to average person.
    - Added known good eBay seller list (mostly covers bulk MLT04 mice atm).
    - Made all links https in case some people still aren't forcing it in their browsers.

    3.0.1
    - Minor grammar/spelling fixes
    - Bolded names in recommended sensor list
    - Underlined some headings for better clarity
    - Added Icemats to recommended mousepad list
    - Changed G400s recommend to remove misinformation about the 4K SROM

    3.0.0
    - Fixed changelog quote not being closed properly
    - Fixed G303, G402 and G502 gaining friction overtime (they now gain friction over time)
    - Hopefully corrected all incorrectly spelled names (stoolseries mostly)
    - Made recommended sensor list names better (eg 3310 => Pixart PMW3310)
    - Corrected information about 3090 4K SROM having smoothing (or indeed smoothing on any SROM)
    - Added 3090/3668/3888/3095 to the recommended sensors list
    - Added more information about DA 3G fw's (1.27 and 1.28NDC) and changed a bit of wording
    - Rival 100 niche changed from ">4m/s malfunction speed" to ">=4m/s malfunction speed"
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    Van-man's Avatar
    August 2009
    18,969 Posts


    Boom motherfucker, I'm a rebel without a cause.

    Seriously though, the OP is missing info on more "exotic" pointing devices.
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  3. Post #3
    Zoe Quinn did nobody wrong.
    Dennab
    December 2007
    7,645 Posts


    Boom motherfucker, I'm a rebel without a cause.

    Seriously though, the OP is missing info on more "exotic" pointing devices.
    Honestly, I had a trackball mouse as a kid, and it was probably the best feeling device I ever used.

    Also I changed my settings to the ones in the OP, I'm more used to slightly lower settings so it feels slightly weird for me.
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  4. Post #4
    TrinityX's Avatar
    March 2013
    403 Posts


    Admit it, someone was going to post this one time or another
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Van-man's Avatar
    August 2009
    18,969 Posts


    Admit it, someone was going to post this one time or another
    I'm waiting for it to transform and roll out.
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    Bredirish123's Avatar
    October 2006
    9,425 Posts
    I'm thinking about getting a new mouse here soon. I love my Steel Series Kana because it's comfortable and works fantastically. I'm just disappointed with the scroll wheel; it's ridiculously inconsistent and often straining on the finger. Why? Well, in my opinion a mouse wheel should have a nice tactile "clicky-ness" as it is turned by my finger.

    I don't know if it's just my specific mouse or what, but scrolling feels very muddy and inconsistent.

  7. Post #7
    A man chooses, a slave obeys.
    Genericenemy's Avatar
    August 2011
    4,831 Posts
    Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical is the best mouse in my eyes, light and durable. No sign of death any time soon.
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  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    Rixxz2's Avatar
    July 2007
    5,197 Posts
    Logitech G400 (non-S) masterrace.

    I really like how non-blingy it is. What they did to the S-version completely ruined it for me.

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  9. Post #9
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    I'm thinking about getting a new mouse here soon. I love my Steel Series Kana because it's comfortable and works fantastically. I'm just disappointed with the scroll wheel; it's ridiculously inconsistent and often straining on the finger. Why? Well, in my opinion a mouse wheel should have a nice tactile "clicky-ness" as it is turned by my finger.

    I don't know if it's just my specific mouse or what, but scrolling feels very muddy and inconsistent.
    I haven't heard the greatest things about the Kana anyway. I heard the Kana v2 is great, but it's only sold in China afaik.

    Edited:

    Logitech G400 (non-S) masterrace.

    I really like how non-blingy it is. What they did to the S-version completely ruined it for me.

    I don't really care about the new look of the 400S. My hand is going to be covering it up anyway.

    I'm actually kinda interested in trying the Zowie FK.
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  10. Post #10
    FUN
    POLICE Fun is a disease
    I am the cure
    redBadger's Avatar
    November 2008
    22,644 Posts
    Logitech G400 (non-S) masterrace.

    I really like how non-blingy it is. What they did to the S-version completely ruined it for me.

    The only mouse worth getting imo.
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  11. Post #11
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    The only mouse worth getting imo.
    Unless you're not a fan of the size/shape or are left-handed, it really is. This thing gets such a ridiculous amount of praise and it actually deserves all of it.

  12. Post #12
    A man chooses, a slave obeys.
    Genericenemy's Avatar
    August 2011
    4,831 Posts
    Unless you're not a fan of the size/shape or are left-handed, it really is. This thing gets such a ridiculous amount of praise and it actually deserves all of it.
    I don't like extra buttons personally, I keep activating them by accident.

  13. Post #13
    I pleasure myself while wearing Combine armour~~
    Dennab
    May 2010
    9,281 Posts
    Unless you're not a fan of the size/shape or are left-handed, it really is. This thing gets such a ridiculous amount of praise and it actually deserves all of it.
    Mine died, prior 3 months after opening the packaging, it went well until it continuously disconnected itself over and over. Wish I knew how to repair the thing but I ended up binning it and went back to a cheap mouse.

  14. Post #14
    Per aspera ad astra
    Chains!'s Avatar
    November 2010
    9,810 Posts
    I use a cheap wireless mouse from Amazon. I'm too good.

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Leestons's Avatar
    October 2010
    4,346 Posts
    I use a cheap wireless mouse from Amazon. I'm too good.
    Could never use a wireless mouse as my main one, I'm too worried about the batteries dying.

  16. Post #16
    A man chooses, a slave obeys.
    Genericenemy's Avatar
    August 2011
    4,831 Posts
    Could never use a wireless mouse as my main one, I'm too worried about the batteries dying.
    I always had trouble getting wireless mice to sync so wired all the way for me.

  17. Post #17
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    I don't like extra buttons personally, I keep activating them by accident.
    Near the scroll wheel or Mouse 4/5? I keep the ones by the scroll wheel disabled.

    Edited:

    Mine died, prior 3 months after opening the packaging, it went well until it continuously disconnected itself over and over. Wish I knew how to repair the thing but I ended up binning it and went back to a cheap mouse.
    I've actually heard of this happening, but between the MX518 I had years prior and the G400 I've had for two years now, I haven't had any cord troubles. Dunno what to say.

  18. Post #18
    I pleasure myself while wearing Combine armour~~
    Dennab
    May 2010
    9,281 Posts
    Near the scroll wheel of Mouse 4/5? I keep the ones by the scroll wheel disabled.

    Edited:



    I've actually heard of this happening, but between the MX518 I had years prior and the G400 I've had for two years now, I haven't had any cord troubles. Dunno what to say.
    Normally I expect it not to happen but it did so I went "fuck it I might go with another brand". No matter how much it's praised it's still likely to happen to many MX518 and G400 users, and I'm sure and certain it'll happen to the higher end models.

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Flash_Fire's Avatar
    November 2009
    2,775 Posts
    Razer Deathadder 3.5g reporting in

    It's my favorite mouse so far, and it only cost me 31
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  20. Post #20
    A man chooses, a slave obeys.
    Genericenemy's Avatar
    August 2011
    4,831 Posts
    Near the scroll wheel of Mouse 4/5? I keep the ones by the scroll wheel disabled.
    Yep, but knowing me I'm lazy and it would never be disabled.

  21. Post #21
    Loading title...6
    kapin_krunch's Avatar
    June 2009
    8,398 Posts
    I'm rocking a G500. Really good mouse, but from what I've heard there's some problem where the types of plastics used makes it so that the mouse builds up a small static charge every time you click which will eventually kill the mouse.
    Think I'll get a G400 if and when the G500 kills itself.

  22. Post #22
    mmo mouse g600 reporting in

    Logitech G400 (non-S) masterrace.

    I really like how non-blingy it is. What they did to the S-version completely ruined it for me.

    I don't really like mice as simple as that and it's a bit too thin for me but that's probably the closest you'll find to "Very Awesome" with mice like that

    I mean, if you want a really solid mouse, I'd say that's a good one. That or better yet g500

  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    robotman5's Avatar
    October 2008
    5,104 Posts
    I have a Logitech G500S works really well.
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    mfb412's Avatar
    September 2009
    2,282 Posts
    Mine died, prior 3 months after opening the packaging, it went well until it continuously disconnected itself over and over. Wish I knew how to repair the thing but I ended up binning it and went back to a cheap mouse.
    ... Are you kidding me here? You have to be. Logitech has 2 year warranty on everything, you could've gone to the point of purchease and they'd have given you a new one free. (If you bought it directly from logitech then holy shit why would you immediately throw it out, if you send them proof of purchease they'll send you a new one and not even ask for the broken one back, the scroll wheel on mine went out after 2 months, i told them about it and got a brand new one within a week)

  25. Post #25
    King of the Oil Refinery
    Tobba's Avatar
    December 2008
    6,524 Posts
    Mine died, prior 3 months after opening the packaging, it went well until it continuously disconnected itself over and over. Wish I knew how to repair the thing but I ended up binning it and went back to a cheap mouse.
    Mine is doing this right now
    I thought I messed up something when cleaning it (I had to open it up to fix the right mouse button, so I decided to just remove all components and dunk the plastic bits in cleaning solution), I'll open it up at some point and try to find whats wrong with it

  26. Post #26
    ... Are you kidding me here? You have to be. Logitech has 2 year warranty on everything, you could've gone to the point of purchease and they'd have given you a new one free. (If you bought it directly from logitech then holy shit why would you immediately throw it out, if you send them proof of purchease they'll send you a new one and not even ask for the broken one back, the scroll wheel on mine went out after 2 months, i told them about it and got a brand new one within a week)
    Logitech is great for sturdy stuff, at least in my experience. So you thankfully won't use the warranty that much I'd bet

  27. Post #27
    I pleasure myself while wearing Combine armour~~
    Dennab
    May 2010
    9,281 Posts
    Mine is doing this right now
    I thought I messed up something when cleaning it (I had to open it up to fix the right mouse button, so I decided to just remove all components and dunk the plastic bits in cleaning solution), I'll open it up at some point and try to find whats wrong with it
    I heard people fixed it by replacing the cable in the mouse with a sturdier one or soldering the points to the connectors completely.

    ... Are you kidding me here? You have to be. Logitech has 2 year warranty on everything, you could've gone to the point of purchease and they'd have given you a new one free. (If you bought it directly from logitech then holy shit why would you immediately throw it out, if you send them proof of purchease they'll send you a new one and not even ask for the broken one back, the scroll wheel on mine went out after 2 months, i told them about it and got a brand new one within a week)
    Logitech isn't so bad in general but I could've waited for a refresh/update before purchasing it.

  28. Post #28
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    I think not following up on your warrenty was kinda dumb but whatever.
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  29. Post #29
    LorimerBlack's Avatar
    August 2011
    222 Posts
    Razer Deathadder 3.5g reporting in

    It's my favorite mouse so far, and it only cost me 31
    That's my favourite too. Replaced it with a deathadder 2013 because the 3.5g broke. The 2013 is nice too but I'm missing the option to change the sensitivity in the drivers. I had 1800 dpi and 4.5 sens in the drivers for the 3.5 DA which gave it a feel like it had the best of both worlds the zippy responsiveness of high dpi and the controlabilty of low dpi, don't how it worked exactly but it felt amazing. Can't find the 3.5 DA anywhere for sale anymore sadly.

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    Flash_Fire's Avatar
    November 2009
    2,775 Posts
    That's my favourite too. Replaced it with a deathadder 2013 because the 3.5g broke. The 2013 is nice too but I'm missing the option to change the sensitivity in the drivers. I had 1800 dpi and 4.5 sens in the drivers for the 3.5 DA which gave it a feel like it had the best of both worlds the zippy responsiveness of high dpi and the controlabilty of low dpi, don't how it worked exactly but it felt amazing. Can't find the 3.5 DA anywhere for sale anymore sadly.
    I got mine off Ebay from some dubious asian man, hence the price

    it took like 5 weeks to arrive but it's a legit deathadder, just no retail packaging

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Van-man's Avatar
    August 2009
    18,969 Posts
    I got mine off Ebay from some dubious asian man, hence the price

    it took like 5 weeks to arrive but it's a legit deathadder, just no retail packaging
    Probably one that originally failed QC but later on had the issue causing that fixed.

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Flash_Fire's Avatar
    November 2009
    2,775 Posts
    Probably one that originally failed QC but later on had the issue causing that fixed.
    The description was "bulk stock" so who knows, it's been months since I bought it and it's still going

  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    jung3o's Avatar
    October 2011
    2,619 Posts
    I don't need fancy buttons. I used my logitech m100 for 2~3 years to be replaced with another m100 a week ago.


    Totally worth my $10
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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Sam Za Nemesis's Avatar
    November 2007
    8,400 Posts


    Got it for free from a friend and recently replaced the cord, it's a charm

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    whatthe's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,812 Posts
    G500 reporting in. Favorite mouse so far but recently the cable has become faulty, causing both my M+K to turn off for a few seconds, and eventually just crash all together. Funnily enough I keep a PS2 Keyboard connected to save everything and shut-down properly

    edit:
    First of all, no matter what mouse you use, you'll want to go to your Windows mouse settings and make sure your mouse pointer options look like this...

    12 years with windows and I didn't know until a quick google search that by "enhancing" they mean "accelerating" your cursor.

    God bless you good sir. This will take a little getting used to.
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  36. Post #36
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    12 years with windows and I didn't know until a quick google search that by "enhancing" they mean "accelerating" your cursor.

    God bless you good sir. This will take a little getting used to.
    Yeah, I found this out a few years ago. I turned it off and immediately felt a (better) difference.

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    Darkimmortal's Avatar
    April 2009
    2,866 Posts
    G500 reporting in. Favorite mouse so far but recently the cable has become faulty, causing both my M+K to turn off for a few seconds, and eventually just crash all together. Funnily enough I keep a PS2 Keyboard connected to save everything and shut-down properly

    edit:


    12 years with windows and I didn't know until a quick google search that by "enhancing" they mean "accelerating" your cursor.

    God bless you good sir. This will take a little getting used to.
    If you think that's good, you should try a different mouse. The G500 has inherent acceleration

  38. Post #38
    Watching the world burn is my hobby.
    Banned?'s Avatar
    February 2005
    23,149 Posts
    If you think that's good, you should try a different mouse. The G500 has inherent acceleration
    Thought they fixed it in the G500S. You could turn it off in the Logitech software.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Zerokateo's Avatar
    November 2011
    5,009 Posts


    G400S Quakecon master race!
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  40. Post #40
    Gold Member
    whatthe's Avatar
    January 2012
    2,812 Posts
    If you think that's good, you should try a different mouse. The G500 has inherent acceleration
    Recommend another with Hyper-scroll, adjustable weights, and extra buttons and I'll be the happiest man alive. cannot believe there is inherent accel, that's just bad. Just turning it off in windows made such a fucking stunning difference.