1. Post #761
    hawk18727's Avatar
    February 2012
    210 Posts
    So I just had a dream where the soda popper did this:



    [All existing stats retained]
    -2 health per second on wearer when active
    Hype resets on weapon switch

    What this does is:
    1. Encourage a playstyle where you only keep the weapon out in combat, or else you're at a health disadvantage
    2. If you don't keep the weapon out when encountering someone, you're at a slight disadvantage switching to it
    3. You don't get hype unless you sacrifice 15-20 HP
    4. You can't store the minicrits at will

    Edit: well it seems the general consensus is that this would not make a fair sidegrade. I'd love to hear your thoughts on why.
    Just let the hype decay at some moderate point while the weapon is not active. As much as i don't like the hype mechanic, soda popper doesn't need a total overhaul.

    Page king? Well, must as well rant about this little thingy.



    I actually adore the idea of fan'o'war and think that concept-wise it's one of the most interesting and fun weapons to use. But The execution is flawed. You should be put in a very risky situation of meleeing someone to make use of this, but, arbitrarily, it has zero use in 1v1 combat, as it's easier to just use your primary. It's great for putting a pressure on a particular offensive class representative, but again, the risk is too high. I believe that somehow, fan'o'war should retain its capabilities at making that heavy or demo be taken down easier, but also get usage in 1v1 combat and benefits for the scout himself. I propose that, in addition to the current stats:

    Scout deals critical hits against a marked for death target.
    The weapon is honorbound (until a successful melee hit).

    As the scout is pretty much vulnerable while meleeing, i think that the bonus isn't remotely op. The downside, while also coinciding with all the Japan theme, offsets the newly gained upside and promotes a careful usage of the weapon.
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  2. Post #762
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Snip
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  3. Post #763
    Raffle Rigger
    Psychopath12's Avatar
    November 2010
    17,061 Posts
    Just let the hype decay at some moderate point while the weapon is not active. As much as i don't like the hype mechanic, soda popper doesn't need a total overhaul.
    The problem with Hype is that it rewards doing nothing.

    Then there's the raw stats to take into account, which outpace the stock scattergun in terms of raw DPS even without the minicrits.

    I can understand them wanting it to be a pressure-based primary weapon for Scout, but the Hype mechanic needs to be based in some sort of reward system such as for damage or for killing/assisting and the raw stats need altering so it's not just plain stupid.
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  4. Post #764
    Gold Member
    zipziggy's Avatar
    October 2012
    3,924 Posts
    the problem is that there is no viable alternative to stock sticky cause its so strong so i propose this:

    Shotgun
    level 1 stock weapon
    (+)Hitscan
    (-)Not the sticky bomb launcher

    Give demo access to the shotgun as a stickybomb replacement option
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  5. Post #765
    Gold Member
    TectoImprov's Avatar
    July 2012
    9,089 Posts
    The problem with Hype is that it rewards doing nothing.

    Then there's the raw stats to take into account, which outpace the stock scattergun in terms of raw DPS even without the minicrits.

    I can understand them wanting it to be a pressure-based primary weapon for Scout, but the Hype mechanic needs to be based in some sort of reward system such as for damage or for killing/assisting and the raw stats need altering so it's not just plain stupid.
    Never understood why they gave it extra firing speed AND reload speed. One or the other would've sufficed.
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  6. Post #766
    Gold Member
    RandomGamer342's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,486 Posts
    Never understood why they gave it extra firing speed AND reload speed. One or the other would've sufficed.
    Honestly, no scattergun should've given you extra firing speed, the only thing making the FaN not a direct upgrade is it being incapable of midair strafing and not being the scattergun. The only downside the sodapopper has is not being the scattergun.

    Both the dual-barrel scatterguns are essentialy direct upgrades, the soda popper literally being one. The scatter balanced it's meatshots with firing delay, and the soda popper doubles instant DPS without lowering over-time DPS for no reason at all, not counting minicrits. The only downside they truly have can be fixed by a clientside custom model+sound. They're both broken at their core
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  7. Post #767
    wari65's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,429 Posts
    the problem is that there is no viable alternative to stock sticky cause its so strong so i propose this:

    Shotgun
    level 1 stock weapon
    (+)Hitscan
    (-)Not the sticky bomb launcher

    Give demo access to the shotgun as a stickybomb replacement option
    That just makes demo a worse soldier
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  8. Post #768
    Omninerd's Avatar
    May 2013
    2,049 Posts
    That just makes demo a worse soldier
    Allow Demo to use the Shotgun and the Reserve Shooter in the place of the grenade launcher then.
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  9. Post #769
    Raffle Rigger
    Psychopath12's Avatar
    November 2010
    17,061 Posts
    Allow Demo to use the Shotgun and the Reserve Shooter in the place of the grenade launcher then.
    That just would remove his weaknesses relating to close combat.
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  10. Post #770
    Gold Member
    zipziggy's Avatar
    October 2012
    3,924 Posts
    That just makes demo a worse soldier

    soldiers rockets need more LoS and cant deal more or less 100 per direct hit

    Edited:

    bots've got 0 ping at all times. I believe that is what's making their flamers so good.
    Yes bot pyros consistently hit all of their flame particles so they can consistently do the theoretical 150 dps

    I say that we make air stickies do considerably less damage.
    Demoman is a defense class. He's supposed to rely on traps and timing. He shouldn't be able to rush forward with a pocket medic and annihilate everything just by throwing stickies everywhere.
    If classes were defined by their “classification” then pyro wouldn’t be such a sad mess of gimmicks and would be a strong offense class like intended
    Yes demoman is strong, hes the highest burst damage dealer in the game but he has is weaknesses which is why hes heavily reliant on team protection the sticky bomb is his primary and the GL is his secondary
    Demoman is a class that excels at mid because that’s his optimum range, if your able to stomp and carry on servers with m1m2 and botties your not playing with good opponents scout stomp demos their the hard counter and their soft countered by snipers, soldiers and divebombing soldiers
    If you can beat him at mid that’s cause that’s his designed for range if you complain that he kills you at close range that’s cuase you weren’t aware and got out played cause he used the enviorment to his advantage
    You can’t nerf the sticky bomb launcher too much meta revolves around the sticky bomb launcher from MvM to engie nests becoming 10X more difficult to take out
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  11. Post #771
    Gold Member
    TectoImprov's Avatar
    July 2012
    9,089 Posts
    If I were playing at a LAN would my flamethrower do better too?
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  12. Post #772
    Gold Member
    zipziggy's Avatar
    October 2012
    3,924 Posts
    If I were playing at a LAN would my flamethrower do better too?
    Well yes if you play like you do i.e your aiming is the at the same skill level then yes you will see an increase in dps done
    But because bots are programmed to be like brain dead ftps with hacks they can aim flame particles better than most humans
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  13. Post #773
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts

    Blocks a single backstab attempt
    On right click with melee weapon: Shields the user from a single powerful attack

    Right click while holding your Kukri and Sniper holds the shield out to protect himself from one spray of bullets/explosive/burst of flame. The duration is half a second and the user is immobilized during its duration. This breaks the Razorback.

    Nice added utility to protect the user from a crocket or something?
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  14. Post #774
    Sliferjam Jones's Avatar
    January 2010
    856 Posts
    I just had an idea out of the blue. The degreaser has been discussed to death, but I felt this might be worth sharing, if only for the idea.

    Enemies set on fire also get faster weapon switch for one or two seconds.
    I'd just love to see a pyro go in for a puff+sting and get stung back.
    It gives more ability for the enemy to fight back without nerfing the degreaser's power.

    I think that this would make the degreaser slightly more fun to play against without making it any less fun to play with.

    My initial thought was it would last the duration of the afterburn, but that would be too much and possibly exploitable.
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  15. Post #775
    Cyanidious's Avatar
    October 2013
    433 Posts

    *Same Stats
    -No Random Crits

    Better?
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  16. Post #776
    And we light up the sky!
    Magic Scrumpy's Avatar
    December 2012
    1,018 Posts

    *Same Stats
    -No Random Crits

    Better?
    The crit rate should be lessened, but having no random crits would make it underpowered.

    Edited:

    Or, at least, seriously hinder the Medic's ability to self-defend.
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  17. Post #777
    Omninerd's Avatar
    May 2013
    2,049 Posts

    *Same Stats
    -No Random Crits

    Better?
    Random crits on this is a double-edged sword, because the Medic will succesfully kill someone and the downside becomes negligible if you one-shot someone, but the Medic also won't be able to hit the same guy 3 times because he is... dead.
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  18. Post #778
    Hinaomi's Avatar
    December 2013
    88 Posts

    +20% Faster Spinup Speed

    Valve nerf it too much.


    +Random Critical hit Enable
    -25% Damage Penalty

    This weapon does not deserve the no random crit


    +No Random Critical hit vs. Non overhealed players

    No more straight upgrade


    +Only can see enemies' health when holding it

    No more straight upgrade


    +Earned crit by sapping building, 2 for destroyed with Sapper, 1 for assisted destroy building
    -30% Damage penalty

    1 crit per building, also it need to be destroy with sapper is too nerf.


    +30% slower firing speed
    +7% Max secondary ammo on wearer

    Round the ammo to 20/80 (From 20/75)
    also lower the slower firing speed for a bit
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  19. Post #779
    Dennab
    August 2013
    4,230 Posts
    1. The tomislov faster spin up speed is just a dumb concept in my opinion, heavy is supposed to have a slower reaction time with his weapon. Tomislov is best where it is right now, nerfed because it isn't a concept worth balancing.

    2. Who cares if it doesn't have random crits or not. It still does a lot of damage.

    3. Who cares if it's a straight upgrade, it's a fuckin' melee weapon. Melee weapons being more interesting than their stock counterpart are a GOOD thing.

    4. Read above.

    5. Of all the weapons to nerf you nerf the diamondback? Why?

    6. Same with the carbine. Why?
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  20. Post #780
    Hinaomi's Avatar
    December 2013
    88 Posts
    1. The tomislov faster spin up speed is just a dumb concept in my opinion, heavy is supposed to have a slower reaction time with his weapon. Tomislov is best where it is right now, nerfed because it isn't a concept worth balancing.

    2. Who cares if it doesn't have random crits or not. It still does a lot of damage.

    3. Who cares if it's a straight upgrade, it's a fuckin' melee weapon. Melee weapons being more interesting than their stock counterpart are a GOOD thing.

    4. Read above.

    5. Of all the weapons to nerf you nerf the diamondback? Why?

    6. Same with the carbine. Why?
    1. When Face-to-face with another heavy, Tomislav always dead first. Also, the silent spin is really useless.
    2. Valve tried to use this stats before revert back in Hatless Update, you can check that.
    3.-4. So, Stock Fireaxe and Bonesaw are useless after have those? Come on!
    5. I nerf only damage, I buffed the mechanic to similar to Frontier Justice. (2 crit per building destroyed, 1 crit per assist)
    6. Carbine is one of my less use weapon. It can kill only in certain situation. Also it's annoying when last clip has only 15 ammo.
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  21. Post #781
    It's not gay unless balls are touching
    LightFlock's Avatar
    February 2013
    2,299 Posts
    What about a minor damage ramp-up the longer the tomislav is spun up? I guess it encourages camping a little, but it was made for hiding and stuff, right?
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  22. Post #782
    Dennab
    August 2013
    4,230 Posts
    that'd completely negate the downside the tomislov has. Tomislov is just a broken concept, you have to make it an entirely new gun for it to be something worth using without being stupid like the pre-nerf tomislov was.
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  23. Post #783
    Omninerd's Avatar
    May 2013
    2,049 Posts
    3.-4. So, Stock Fireaxe and Bonesaw are useless after have those? Come on!
    Fireaxe is useless because Pyro already is the best class for close combat, with all his stock weapons being intended for that, and you almost never run out of flamthrower ammo. Bonesaw is not entirely useless, but as a Medic, your Syringe gun is better for self-defense and you should be using your Medigun over everything.

    Übersaw and Axtinguisher were introduced in the very first major updates to help these classes to have melee that would be useful for something for then. That's why Axtinguisher and Übersaw are almost close to a direct upgrade, and why Valve promote them over their stock melees, for example, when they added the festive Übersaw and the festive/golden Axtinguisher.
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  24. Post #784
    Gold Member
    Mentlegen's Avatar
    December 2010
    8,753 Posts
    The Tomislav is meant to lose against other Heavies. You sacrifice a bit of your firing power for the ability to be ready for battle faster and the ability to ambush. To beat a Heavy using a different minigun you just have to be smarter than the other Heavy, or have a Medic. It's fine as it is.
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  25. Post #785
    HerSilverHammer's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,578 Posts
    This is what I'd do to the Soda Popper

    The Soda Popper

    +25% faster reloading
    +50% faster firing speed
    -66% clip size
    No random critical hits
    On Medic kill: Gain 1 second of invincibility and mini-crits ('hype') for every 10% of the Medic's stored charge, rounded down

    So if the Medic had
    9% Uber = 0 seconds of hype
    15% Uber = 1 second of hype
    50% Uber = 5 seconds of hype
    99% Uber = 9 seconds of hype
    100% Uber = 10 seconds of hype

    Between its speed and small clip, it has always been ideal for picking. Now you'll also get a major reward for going after the Medics, so it teaches not-so-good Scouts some good habits. Of course, the small clip and reload prevent the reward from being too good.

    Just enough to shake things up.

    Soda joke.
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  26. Post #786
    Dennab
    August 2013
    4,230 Posts
    This is what I'd do to the Soda Popper
    Fucking ridiculous stats
    Hell no that'd be insane. It's already incredibly easy to kill a medic before he pops with the faster firing speed, it STILL out DPS's the scattergun, you gain invincibility while you're hyped removing the core downside of scout, and the gun is now even more of a direct upgrade over the scattergun, just add medic to the mix. Probably one of the worse suggestions I've seen.
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  27. Post #787
    Outro-intro's Avatar
    December 2012
    1,283 Posts
    Fixed tomislav:

    +able to jump and crouch walk while revved.
    +move at normal speed while revved.
    +does more damage after every kill? (maybe? no?)
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  28. Post #788
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Fixed tomislav:

    +able to jump and crouch walk while revved.
    +move at normal speed while revved.
    +does more damage after every kill? (maybe? no?)
    Then why not be perpetually revved up?
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  29. Post #789
    Outro-intro's Avatar
    December 2012
    1,283 Posts
    Then why not be perpetually revved up?
    Maybe take mini-crits when revved up with those stats?
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  30. Post #790
    necrophilia's Avatar
    August 2013
    180 Posts
    Fixed tomislav:

    No changes. It's a fine piece of heavy's deadly arsenal.
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  31. Post #791
    Gold Member
    LaughingStock's Avatar
    August 2010
    8,472 Posts
    the tomislav should be hidden down the heavy's throat for ultimate stealth mode

    then he can pretend to carry his shotgun when in reality he has a minigun spun up and ready to fire
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  32. Post #792
    Mr. Jelly's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,971 Posts
    On the subject of the Tomislav



    Silent spin thingy
    +70% faster spin down time
    -20% slower firing speed
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  33. Post #793
    Punchy's Avatar
    August 2013
    9,711 Posts
    fixing Ubersaw

    Instead of removing crits, give it 250% chance of crits.
    Also, give it +50% damage bonus.

    This way, you won't be charging your uber insanely fast with it. because it will 1-shot all your targets, and you cant build off of them.
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  34. Post #794
    It's not gay unless balls are touching
    LightFlock's Avatar
    February 2013
    2,299 Posts
    fixing Ubersaw

    Instead of removing crits, give it 250% chance of crits.
    Also, give it +50% damage bonus.

    This way, you won't be charging your uber insanely fast with it. because it will 1-shot all your targets, and you cant build off of them.
    People won't use it for uber then, they'll use it to insta-kill light/medium classes as a class that moves at 110% speed.
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  35. Post #795
    Punchy's Avatar
    August 2013
    9,711 Posts
    People won't use it for uber then, they'll use it to insta-kill light/medium classes as a class that moves at 110% speed.
    wow no shit i guess it was stupid of me to bring up that idea seriously????
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  36. Post #796
    Capt. Tin's Avatar
    August 2013
    991 Posts
    It would make a lot more sense to lower the uber the medic gets when he hits them with the ubersaw then to make it so he one shots lower health classes.
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  37. Post #797
    Dennab
    August 2013
    4,230 Posts
    25% is the perfect amount of uber for the ubersaw; any less and it just wouldn't be worth it.
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  38. Post #798
    Gold Member

    August 2012
    2,128 Posts
    how about instead of nerfing the ubersaw which has nothing fundamentally wrong with it, buff his other shitty melees?
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  39. Post #799
    Gold Member
    errur's Avatar
    December 2009
    945 Posts
    I don't see a problem with the tomislav. Yes, it's weaker than stock but that's the point, it's silent and excellent for ambushing instead.
    The reason people might think it's UP is because they don't use it right. You can win vs a stock heavy if you spin up first and catch him by surprise.
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  40. Post #800
    Gold Member
    Deodorant's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,364 Posts

    +Only can see enemies' health when holding it

    No more straight upgrade
    ...That would still be a straight upgrade.
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