1. Post #361
    Gold Member
    Deodorant's Avatar
    November 2011
    2,364 Posts
    literally a direct upgrade
    I think 'a' is the only term in that post you're not misusing.

    'Direct upgrade' is not the same thing as 'overpowered' and people need to stop using it to say that. A direct upgrade is an item that has at least one upside - no matter how insignificant - and not a single downside compared to its stock counterpart. The Axtinguisher is generally considered more powerful than the Third Degree, but the Third Degree is a direct upgrade and the Axtinguisher is not.
    The 'no random crits' trait is a negative one, and the weapon is therefore not a direct upgrade.

    If you think the weapon sounds overpowered, though... You may very well be right. Care to elaborate on your reasoning?
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  2. Post #362
    THE GRINCH WHO STOLE COSMETICS
    Unisath's Avatar
    August 2011
    5,430 Posts
    I think 'a' is the only term in that post you're not misusing.

    'Direct upgrade' is not the same thing as 'overpowered' and people need to stop using it to say that. A direct upgrade is an item that has at least one upside - no matter how insignificant - and not a single downside compared to its stock counterpart. The Axtinguisher is generally considered more powerful than the Third Degree, but the Third Degree is a direct upgrade and the Axtinguisher is not.
    The 'no random crits' trait is a negative one, and the weapon is therefore not a direct upgrade.

    If you think the weapon sounds overpowered, though... You may very well be right. Care to elaborate on your reasoning?
    Because there's no reason not to use the regular bat. If it had all those lovely traits along with the original damage reduction, it'd be perfectly fine.
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  3. Post #363
    Mr. Jelly's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,971 Posts

    The Reserve 'Chuter
    +30% switch speed (from 15%)
    Minicrits on targets launched or falling*
    Cannot be equipped by Pyro
    -50% clip size


    *The Reserve Shooter will only minicrit (sans Buff Banner/Jarate/Mark of Death) under the following conditions: Any form of explosive knockback (including flare-based knockback). A FaN, Atomizer, or Boston Basher extra jump. Knockback from Airblast or the FaN. Being at a distance above the surface directly below you exceeding 256 Hammer Units (ie any height at which fall damage would be taken)

    This was an effort to both buff the Reserve Shooter while removing some of the more annoying parts, like that whole 'haha no jumping allowed round these parts' business, or the whole 'Pyro-with-a-Reserve-Shooter' business. The usual rocket-their-feet-then-bang-band-ded strategy is completely unchanged, except with an increase in switch speed.

       help I have so many stupid ideas   
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  4. Post #364
    ASIC's security and investment consultation.
    ASIC's Avatar
    March 2013
    3,616 Posts
    A few suggestions for the cow mangler 5000:
    Remove the no crit-boosting.
    Remove the reload speed penalty.
    Maybe:
    Possibly remove the no random crits.
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  5. Post #365
    Konork's Avatar
    December 2009
    901 Posts
    A few suggestions for the cow mangler 5000:
    Remove the no crit-boosting.
    Remove the reload speed penalty.
    Maybe:
    Possibly remove the no random crits.
    I believe the lack of crit boosts is because, for some reason, the weapon model is paintable, which uses the parts of the textures and stuff normally used for crit-boosts or something like that, so you probably couldn't tell if they were critboosted or not very easily. Altough, on a related note, does anyone think that making the Mangler have infinite charge on critboosts would be a good idea?
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  6. Post #366
    ASIC's security and investment consultation.
    ASIC's Avatar
    March 2013
    3,616 Posts
    I believe the lack of crit boosts is because, for some reason, the weapon model is paintable, which uses the parts of the textures and stuff normally used for crit-boosts or something like that, so you probably couldn't tell if they were critboosted or not very easily. Altough, on a related note, does anyone think that making the Mangler have infinite charge on critboosts would be a good idea?
    Other weapons with infinite charge are crit boostable.
    The infinite ammo part won't matter in the short time that it would be crit-boosted.
    However The one extra shot in the clip *might* make a difference.
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  7. Post #367
    Gold Member
    RandomGamer342's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,486 Posts
    Isn't it because the cow mangler is made so that mini-crits disable sentries and light people on fire?

    If you suddenly crit boosted it, it would be devastating
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  8. Post #368
    ASIC's security and investment consultation.
    ASIC's Avatar
    March 2013
    3,616 Posts
    Isn't it because the cow mangler is made so that mini-crits disable sentries and light people on fire?

    If you suddenly crit boosted it, it would be devastating
    It is only the mouse2 function of it.
    It is not minicrits disable senties, and light people on fire.
    It is charged shots disable sentries,light people on fire,and deal mini-crits.
    The mangler works with jarate.
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  9. Post #369
    johnny guitar was here
    comet1337's Avatar
    February 2010
    5,818 Posts
    if it would do that, people might actually use it
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  10. Post #370
    Gold Member
    TheJoey's Avatar
    June 2010
    6,458 Posts


    +10% movespeed on wearer
    -25% burn damage penalty
    -10% damage penalty



    65% faster weapon switch
    +10% bullet damage vulnerability on wearer

    There.

    Note: This also fixes the Axtinguisher.
    this is fucking beautiful i dont give a shit if it was on the first page
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  11. Post #371

    December 2012
    11 Posts
    [img]
    Reduces initial damage and subsequent damage received to a fraction (1/10) and cloak does not flicker when bumping into an enemy, but only for the standard cloak duration. Prolonging the cloak will turn it into a standard invisibility
    Has 60% faster cloak recharge rate
    Cloaks Spy for 6.5 seconds upon receiving damage, dropping a fake corpse
    Cloak meter can be refilled from ammo sources
    Has a loud, distinctive decloak sound
    Uncloaking will lower the cloak meter to 40% if above that amount when uncloaking
    Large and medium ammo boxes restore 35% cloak (instead of 100% and 50% respectively)
    Melee damage is unaffected by damage reduction

    Sound like it gives an already spammed item more spam ability to me. regardless, besides the regen rate, i like it. it would force spys to stop using it as a safety net 95% of the time and ACTUALLY FAKE their death.

    Edited:

    You're telling me that an engineer should be able to shit out level 1 sentries right in front of the face of a scout without the scout being able to do ANYTHING ABOUT IT before it's built and he's 3/4 dead?
    Personally i don't feel like the mini needs nerf. i myself am annoyed by it, but that's the thing. i'm ANNOYED. not thrown into a blind rage whenever i so much as happen to see it.

    Also, why can't the scout say, run away? scout was never meant to take on sentrys in the first place, Mini or level 3. and whats to say he doesn't down the engie with two well placed scatter shots BEFORE he blindly throws it down? After all, he IS right in scout's ally, up close and personal, right?
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  12. Post #372
    Mr. Jelly's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,971 Posts
    The problem is that Engineers can shit out Minis anywhere and pretty much anytime they please, so simply running away won't solve anything.

    Also fun math time

    Scout runs at 400 HU/s

    The Mini-Sentry builds in approximately 2.5 seconds, and has a range of 1100 Hammer Units

    So in 2.5 seconds the Scout will have cleared 1000 Hammer Units, 100 short of its maximum range.

    While Minis aren't usually built touching someone's toes, most people don't run away the exact moment it's built, and often times they'll run backwards, trying to fire upon it.

    In a 0 variable environment, you cannot outrun a Mini
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  13. Post #373
    Gold Member
    Elstumpo's Avatar
    September 2008
    3,098 Posts


    +50hp (passive)
    -Only heals 150hp on use
    - -25/50% health from healers (or somewhere around there)

    Edited:



    +50hp (passive)
    -Only heals 150hp on use
    - -25/50% health from healers (or somewhere around there)
    The extra hp also works with overheal.
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  14. Post #374
    ScarfaceCrow's Avatar
    March 2012
    244 Posts
    I will atempt to fix the most broken weapon in the game, and keep it the most near at the valve stats concept and mixing the banners concepts to put it in a most realistic balanced way:

    The Phlogistinator

    Deal 450 fire and or desintegration damage to build your boost bar.
    Boost bar have a 8 second duration and 35% of damage done over this period comes as health.
    Press mouse 2 for desintegrate projectiles with 100% airblast ammo cost.
    Desintegration has no knockback but deals 5hp damage.
    When your boost bar is filled your weapon have a special critglow different from that one when in use.
    Crits on the fly with attack3.
    Deals 10% less damage.
    Deal 25% less afterburn damage with all weapons.



    So I merged: Flame thrower, Degreaser, Concheror, Short Circuit, all in one, the cost for boost and less afterburn damage in all weapons like flaregun punish farming your bar from afar in a "safe way", but you get all the rewards from fighting up close, health and massive damage, for keeping with this strategy you can protect yourself desintegrating prejectiles for your own convenience, building more boost and protecting your budies, but as you cannot have the best of all worlds you cannot control enemy movement or use your projectiles against your foes, the crits on the fly are here for better ambushes, and the crit glow makes it fair for the other players since they have been advised about your hard earned crits.
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  15. Post #375
    Gold Member
    RandomGamer342's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,486 Posts
    Personally i don't feel like the mini needs nerf. i myself am annoyed by it, but that's the thing. i'm ANNOYED. not thrown into a blind rage whenever i so much as happen to see it.

    Also, why can't the scout say, run away? scout was never meant to take on sentrys in the first place, Mini or level 3. and whats to say he doesn't down the engie with two well placed scatter shots BEFORE he blindly throws it down? After all, he IS right in scout's ally, up close and personal, right?
    If an engineer runs out into the field and suddenly builds a level 1 sentry, you can shoot it once and it'll be destroyed. Same thing will happen if he carelessly puts out a level 3 sentry next to the enemy team

    Why the hell should the engineer be able to plop down something that's essentially a more powerful level 1 sentry within meelee range of an enemy, without a single thing happening to the sentry?
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  16. Post #376
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Oh, if we're talking about the Phlog...

    The Phlogistinator II
    Level 10 Flame Thrower
    All reflected projectiles increase "Mmmph", activate to refill health and crits for several seconds.
    Airblast disintigrates projectiles.
    -10% damage penalty
    No random critical hits.

    An actual practice weapon for new Pyros, this remake of the Phlog rewards them for good airblasting with tasty health and crits for some nice, forgiving gameplay.

    Some projectiles give more Mmmph than others; for example, Huntsman and Crossbow arrows give the most (a third of the bar), while Stickybombs give the least (a twelfth.)
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  17. Post #377
    Konork's Avatar
    December 2009
    901 Posts
    My guess is that the Phlog was supposed to be a weapon better for ambushing groups. The physics of the flamethrower's flames makes it easy to hit multiple enemies at once, helping you build up Mmmph faster, and the visual noise from all of the teammates on fire may make it harder to pick out the Pyro activating his Mmmph. The taunt is so that enemies can get away if they notice him, but the damage reduction helps keep enemies from just spamming when they get hit. And some quick opinions on different changes for it
    -snip for length-
    I honestly have no idea what type of weapon you're making here. You seem to be just grabbing stats and tossing them on the Phlog without any regard to how they'd actually work. It's just a clusterfuck of attributes
    The Phlogistinator II
    Level 10 Flame Thrower
    All reflected projectiles increase "Mmmph", activate to refill health and crits for several seconds.
    Airblast disintigrates projectiles.
    -10% damage penalty
    No random critical hits.


    An actual practice weapon for new Pyros, this remake of the Phlog rewards them for good airblasting with tasty health and crits for some nice, forgiving gameplay.


    Some projectiles give more Mmmph than others; for example, Huntsman and Crossbow arrows give the most (a third of the bar), while Stickybombs give the least (a twelfth.)
    Besides being useless if there's no projectile-based classes, something like this would be better suited to it's own weapon, because even if I'm wrong about what the Phlog is about and it's meant to be a W+M1 machine, it's a change along the same lines as deciding to make the Kritzkreig charge through damage done. It's far too big of a change to make to an existing weapon, that almost definitely takes away from it's original purpose.
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  18. Post #378
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Besides being useless if there's no projectile-based classes,
    Heavies and Spies are the only classes that don't have any projectile unlocks, and Soldiers will never be without projectiles. Also, keep in mind the Diamondback, Razorback, both Sappers, and other class-specific weapons.

    something like this would be better suited to it's own weapon, because even if I'm wrong about what the Phlog is about and it's meant to be a W+M1 machine, it's a change along the same lines as deciding to make the Kritzkreig charge through damage done. It's far too big of a change to make to an existing weapon, that almost definitely takes away from it's original purpose.
    I think its purpose to begin with was a newb-friendly Flamethrower, which is exactly what this is. You can make the argument that it's meant for ambushes (although i'm fairly sure it's physics are the same as default), but doesn't the Backburner (and to a lesser extent, stock) already do that in a less superficial way?
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  19. Post #379
    DoctorQ's Avatar
    November 2007
    659 Posts
    Sound like it gives an already spammed item more spam ability to me. regardless, besides the regen rate, i like it. it would force spys to stop using it as a safety net 95% of the time and ACTUALLY FAKE their death.
    60% Faster Regen Rate is something the DR already has .-.
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  20. Post #380
    Konork's Avatar
    December 2009
    901 Posts
    Heavies and Spies are the only classes that don't have any projectile unlocks, and Soldiers will never be without projectiles. Also, keep in mind the Diamondback, Razorback, both Sappers, and other class-specific weapons.
    But just because a class has a projectile weapon doesn't mean that they're using them. Also, you can't really count the sapper because it's not an unlock, or the Recorder because it's just another sapper. The Diamondback helps to enforce something that's already a big part of the spy, plus spies are often brought out in response to sentries anyway. And the Razorback is a piece of shit that only really works in a roundabout way because very few spies are dumb enough to backstab you when you have it.
    I think its purpose to begin with was a newb-friendly Flamethrower, which is exactly what this is. You can make the argument that it's meant for ambushes (although i'm fairly sure it's physics are the same as default), but doesn't the Backburner (and to a lesser extent, stock) already do that in a less superficial way?
    I was talking about the general flamethrower physics. The particles it fires pierce through enemies, so a quick sweep should be enough to light up an entire group. And the Backburner seems to be more for solo-ambushes, it's crit angle is narrow enough that you probably won't hit it when you're firing through another player.
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  21. Post #381
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Actually, I agree now. I was wrong and I changed the weapon too much, even though I wish it was the way the Phlog had been from the beginning. I apologize.

    One last idea:


    The Quick-Fix
    Level 8 Medi Gun Prototype
    ‹berCharge increases healing by 300% and grants immunity to movement-impairing effects
    +40% heal rate
    +25% ‹berCharge rate
    Can't overheal.
    When target is fully healed: Target's speed is increased by 10%.
    Move at the speed of any faster heal target.

    Just so that the Quick-Fix is more useful on offense.
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  22. Post #382
    Fapplejack's Avatar
    March 2013
    6,372 Posts
    Cow mangler redux:
    Does not requite ammo
    Press MOUSE 2 to fire a charged shot than ignites enemies and stuns sentries for 5 seconds. This laser is certain to be a crit! (Same as before, though now is a full crit)
    -25% reload speed
    Only does 33% damage to buildings (Up from 20)
    No random crits (Buffed from no crits)
    Crit lasers move 33% slower
    All reflected lasers are minicrits (even crits, to prevent griefing).

    This takes out my major gripe of the Cow mangler simply not doing enough damage, and gives it the random and pointless buff of 5 lasers. The laser now has a point, since I rarely remember killing someone with it. It was never worth the charge and clip loss.
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  23. Post #383
    Gold Member
    Prollgurke's Avatar
    January 2013
    2,463 Posts
    Maybe leave the quickfix how it is and just add this:

    You can, at any point, click and hold your right mouse button to uber your patient and when you release the mouse button the uber is over.
    Maybe with a small cooldown of 1 or 2 seconds.
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  24. Post #384
    ScarfaceCrow's Avatar
    March 2012
    244 Posts
    We must agree something about the quick fix, at least one good buff to it is that since is a medigun for keeping your team "topped" it doesn't should have less uber duration for splitting the uber over multiple patients
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  25. Post #385
    TwoYearLurker's Avatar
    November 2012
    1,426 Posts

    Ubercharge triples patient heal rate and allows overheal
    Ubercharge is deployable in quarters
    +40% heal rate
    +50% Ubercharge rate
    Matches speed and blast jumping of heal target
    Cannot overheal

    Basically, the Quick-Fix's uber is changed to work like the Vaccinator's, with the same quick charge rate and the same deployable-in-quarters ability. If always charging at the same rate (regardless of overheal) and not draining faster for charging multiple patients are both hard-coded into the 4-piece uber setup, then I guess it would get those traits too. I actually had to nerf the charge a bit by having it not affect the Medic any more, because otherwise the Medic would get a free almost-invulnerability for himself every 6 seconds and that would be ridiculous.

    I also replaced the knockback immunity with overhealing because it fits the "top off everyone's health" theme a lot more - giving a teammate two seconds of knockback resistance every 6 seconds doesn't make much sense, but overhealing fits the item perfectly, resulting in a Medic who's constantly using his charges and constantly keeping his team's health topped off. Actually, the speed- and jump-matching attribute is completely out of place now, but I kept it in because people would probably complain if it was taken out.

    So what do you think, would it work?
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  26. Post #386
    Gold Member
    NitronikALT's Avatar
    September 2010
    10,904 Posts
    Mhh, re-read the posts.

    I agree on the Megaheal not draining faster if you are not engaging a target.
    How about it not draining at all, if you aren't healing anyone while deploying a charge? Would that make things OP / broken?

    Keep in mind, the medic will not receive the megaheal if he's not healing someone
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  27. Post #387
    Bynine's Avatar
    December 2012
    4,663 Posts
    Here are the three Sniper back items - I find them underpowered, since they're all vastly inferior to the mysterious powers of Jarate or the dependability of the SMG. So here are some new suggestions.



    +25 max health on wearer
    +10% fire resistance on wearer
    -75% reduction in push force taken from damage

    The reduction in push force makes it far more beneficial for Huntsman and regular Snipers alike, as neither of them work effectively while being thrown about with explosions. The fire resistance is just a nice little bonus which would make it more tempting to Jarate-loving Snipers.



    Blocks a single backstab attempt
    -40% damage taken while scoped

    For Snipers who want to feel safe and comfortable while sniping, so they can focus on their job. The damage reduction while scoped means it will be difficult for even Ambassador Spies to take out a Razorback Sniper without having to mano-a-mano with him.



    +1 health regenerated per second on wearer
    No flinching when aiming
    Knockback reduced by 20% when aiming
    -50% slower move speed when aiming
    On Taunt: Throws Jarate down at your feet.

    This backpack is closer to good than the other two, so there are only some minor changes. I reduced the reduction in move speed and gave it a taunt instead which can be beneficial for putting out your team and for Spychecking. Of course, it is a taunt, so you can't use it in the middle of combat, but it's still more helpful. (You'd use the taunt with your melee weapon out.)

    Reposted from the Original Original Weapons Idea Thread.
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  28. Post #388
    Sockson's Avatar
    July 2012
    108 Posts
    REDACTED
    huh
    yeah guys the huntsman doesn't seem cheap at all
    everything's good here keep moving
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  29. Post #389
    Gold Member
    Zannabluke's Avatar
    February 2011
    6,772 Posts
    huh
    yeah guys the huntsman doesn't seem cheap at all
    everything's good here keep moving
    are you serious or what? 2/3 of your kills were on completley still targets.
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  30. Post #390
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,217 Posts
    1/3 still targets, 1/3 results of spamming a group of people, 1/3 luck.

    Huntsman isn't overpowered, maybe a little annoying in the right hands but not overpowered.
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  31. Post #391
    Gold Member
    Mentlegen's Avatar
    December 2010
    8,755 Posts
    I just think the Quick-Fix should heal the Medic when he Megaheals in the least. It's kind of bullshit that I can't activate it for a quick escape.
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  32. Post #392
    Sockson's Avatar
    July 2012
    108 Posts
    are you serious or what? 2/3 of your kills were on completley still targets.
    no it's not serious lol
    i'm trying to show how high of a reward i can get with such low effort.
    here, i'll edit the video and reupload it with captions so it'll render itself more sarcastic.
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  33. Post #393
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,217 Posts
    You can one-hit pylon-people with sniper rifle too, you know.
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  34. Post #394
    Gold Member
    OzzyCockroach's Avatar
    September 2012
    3,337 Posts
    Imagine if the Liberty Launcher's 40% faster projectile speed was an 'on-wearer attribute'.

    40% faster Righteous Bison rays for days!
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  35. Post #395
    Mr. Jelly's Avatar
    April 2013
    2,971 Posts
    Imagine if the Liberty Launcher's 40% faster projectile speed was an 'on-wearer attribute'.

    40% faster Righteous Bison rays for days!
    Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

    Look out, Scouts

    Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)


    Current stats
    +50% Mini-sentry resistance

    Now it's a viable weapon (not really)
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  36. Post #396
    MyBumBum's Avatar
    March 2013
    743 Posts
    Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

    Look out, Scouts

    Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)


    Current stats
    +50% Mini-sentry resistance

    Now it's a viable weapon (not really)
    Maybe even apply this to the sticky jumper
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  37. Post #397
    Gold Member
    kariko's Avatar
    May 2011
    3,545 Posts
    Homewrecker needs some sentry resistance too. I use it as it is because I like being a Pybro but still, it would be cool to use the building damage bonus.
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  38. Post #398
    Top 2hu
    HouraiDoll's Avatar
    October 2010
    657 Posts
    Homewrecker needs some sentry resistance too. I use it as it is because I like being a Pybro but still, it would be cool to use the building damage bonus.

    Deals double damage against enemy buildings
    +50% Sentry damage resistance on wielder (Passive)
    +45% Damage done from melee sources while active.
    Deals 25% less damage against players.

    Many people might disagree with these stats, but it makes it more offensive. Suggestions are open.
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  39. Post #399
    Gold Member
    Metaru's Avatar
    June 2012
    9,024 Posts
    the homewecker is meant to turn you into a buff for sentry nests and literally the only help engineers get from another class, not to become a bullet sponge to tank sentries.

    let alone the downgrades would still kill you way before you could reach your target. remember no class should ever rush agasint a sentry without backup or unles they're a disguised spy, otherwise, they render them completely useless(the sentry).

    you already have plenty other resources to take down entries besides simple brute force, and isnt like a sentry, even a lv3 one won't get taken down by two or three players ifleft unnatended.

    most sugestions in this thread fail to fix weapons without actually considering how they will affect both the user and his target. adding defensive buffs to a weapon for situations where you are not meant to be alone doesnt fix anything at all, let alone nerf. remember you're not playing Quake 3 Arena.
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  40. Post #400
    Gold Member
    Drury's Avatar
    April 2011
    13,217 Posts
    Only if it also makes me swing 40% faster

    Look out, Scouts

    Also I figured out the perfect (not really) Rocket Jumpadumper buff (note: not really serious)


    Current stats
    +50% Mini-sentry resistance

    Now it's a viable weapon (not really)
    The thing is, this only fixes the minisentry for trolldiers. There are x more roaming classes left neutralized by it.
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