1. Post #11601
    Gold Member
    MAC21500's Avatar
    February 2011
    2,748 Posts
    AN-94 is poop apparently:


    Milled RPK-74:
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  2. Post #11602
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    Sad day, comrades.

    oh god.. what happened.
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  3. Post #11603
    Gold Member
    Camwi_003's Avatar
    May 2008
    1,296 Posts
    Not mine, but "Gun Show Reloads"... Need I say more?

    Also check this one out, a run of the mill Savage in .30-06




    They forgot to remove the bore-sight laser.
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  4. Post #11604
    Gold Member
    Campin Carl's Avatar
    October 2006
    5,257 Posts
    Fuck it, chop off the tentacle parts and just file an SBR application
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  5. Post #11605
    Absolute tosser, manchild, and belligerent douche-nozzle.
    download's Avatar
    July 2006
    11,232 Posts
    Not mine, but "Gun Show Reloads"... Need I say more?

    Also check this one out, a run of the mill Savage in .30-06




    They forgot to remove the bore-sight laser.
    I look at that and keep thinking what it would be like to fire it in that state. I wonder what would happen.
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  6. Post #11606
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Anyone know of a site that sells and ships 8-round stripper clips for 7,62x25 mm Tokarev internationally?
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  7. Post #11607
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    Anyone know of a site that sells and ships 8-round stripper clips for 7,62x25 mm Tokarev internationally?
    Why do you want them? They're only useful for an obscure Czech SMG. I know this because all my Czech ammo for my TT-33 came on them, but they can't be used for the Tokarev mags.
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  8. Post #11608
    Gold Member
    Jagur's Avatar
    May 2010
    1,598 Posts
    copped an AR carry handle sight, yugo m76 barrel is in, also building another ye olde 9mm smg
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  9. Post #11609
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Why do you want them? They're only useful for an obscure Czech SMG. I know this because all my Czech ammo for my TT-33 came on them, but they can't be used for the Tokarev mags.
    Obscure Czech SMG
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  10. Post #11610
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    Obscure Czech SMG
    Where'd you get the Obscure Czech SMG in Norwegia?

    Edited:

    I think it was probably this one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_Model_25
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  11. Post #11611
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)
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  12. Post #11612
    Gold Member
    NuclearAnnhilation's Avatar
    June 2009
    7,384 Posts
    so i need help

    Polish radom built AK 7.62x39 $939+shipping


    PTR G3 .308 for $899+free shipping



    or i buy a vz58 plus a wasr. or 2 wasrs
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  13. Post #11613
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Ew why does that PTR come with a slimline and navy trigger group?

    It's either slimline HG+steel group or wide HG+navy group
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  14. Post #11614
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)
    That still doesn't answer how you managed to acquire a submachine gun in Norwegia.
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  15. Post #11615
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    The secret of welding and lathes.


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  16. Post #11616
    Gold Member
    NuclearAnnhilation's Avatar
    June 2009
    7,384 Posts
    Ew why does that PTR come with a slimline and navy trigger group?

    It's either slimline HG+steel group or wide HG+navy group
    i mean i can change the furniture no big deal
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  17. Post #11617
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    The secret of welding and lathes.


    I thought Norway had a list of approved semis, or are you in a position where you simply don't give a shit?
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  18. Post #11618
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    I really hope you guys don't think I'm dumb enough to post about illegal guns online.
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  19. Post #11619
    Gold Member
    mastoner20's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,239 Posts
    Yeah... That's Umenat's territory, you Commie!
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  20. Post #11620
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    <3 Eesti & Sovjet <3
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  21. Post #11621
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    Well how do I know he's not Umenat in disguise, or maybe he's the Norwegian Umenat? I'm just trying to be accommodating to the investigators.
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  22. Post #11622
    Gold Member
    mastoner20's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,239 Posts
    ...The fact he's not completely annoying, just mostly pretentious... Also, he doesn't exclusively post suicide/execution mockups for no reason with his leet deactivated AK?
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  23. Post #11623
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    It's a Samopal vzor 26 in this case (7,62 mm Tokarev and folding stock)
    Sexy.

    I was going to make one, but the fact that it's chambered in 7.62 tok kinda turned me off of it. Then I built an MP-5 instead.
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  24. Post #11624
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Well how do I know he's not Umenat in disguise, or maybe he's the Norwegian Umenat? I'm just trying to be accommodating to the investigators.
    You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night.



    Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. It's a neat gun, lots of ideas implemented in an era that would have me think the .cz are way ahead of their time. Don't see them here often, so I figured I'd just get it and sell it whenever I need the cash. Value doesn't sink when it sits on a shelf anyway!

    Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box, and it's just a pain in the ass. You have to line the clip perfectly up with the magazine or you just bend it before you shoot it out and it hits you in the leg.

    It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on it :(
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  25. Post #11625
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    8,824 Posts
    You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night.


    Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box. It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on a good-for-nothing load ramp :(
    Do you know what Norwegia's laws are for importing them? Because I could potentially mail you some. I have, like, 200 of them and they're totally worthless to me.
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  26. Post #11626
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    You can tell whatever alphabet agency you contacted to pull around their Geländewagens and go home for the night.



    Got it as a collector's piece/shelf sitter since the Sa.23 series is as unfamiliar as it is to most western firearm enthusiasts. It's a neat gun, lots of ideas implemented in an era that would have me think the .cz are way ahead of their time. Don't see them here often, so I figured I'd just get it and sell it whenever I need the cash. Value doesn't sink when it sits on a shelf anyway!

    Figured I'd get some stripper clips to put rounds onto for photographs, I've tried loading magazines with one clip I found laying around in my spare-parts-and-unsorted-stuff-box, and it's just a pain in the ass. You have to line the clip perfectly up with the magazine or you just bend it before you shoot it out and it hits you in the leg.

    It's entirely useless and the Czechoslovaks behind it wasted good steel on it :(
    Looks like a technically challenging project. Was it fun?
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  27. Post #11627
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Do you know what Norwegia's laws are for importing them? Because I could potentially mail you some. I have, like, 200 of them and they're totally worthless to me.
    We don't have any laws regarding import of things like that, our customs treat stripper clips like stripper clips (pieces of innocent metal). That'd be great, thanks for the offer.


    Looks like a technically challenging project. Was it fun?
    Not quite sure if you're asking if I put it together myself from parts, but if you are, I bought it deactivated (as you see in the first photo). I just disassembled and reassembled it for a quick photo.

    It's sad that guns like these are botchered the way they are. Shouldn't happen in any way, but it still does. If it's any consolation, I personally think it's better that collectors get the joy of getting to handle and enjoy the feel of them, and looking at how they work. Guns like these that aren't deactivated usually get demilled (lot more gruesome than the drilled barrel and ground bolt) and thrown into a crucible..


    It's fascinatingly easy put together. If you're not familiar with it, you push in a small button in the middle of the rear tube end, twist off the cover, pull out the bolt, use the bolt to loosen the barrel nut, and then just pull it straight out.


    Here's a photo of the magazine loader, by the way. You put a stripper clip onto the slot and just pust the magazine against it. When it's empty it pops out on the other end of the loader.
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  28. Post #11628
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    We don't have any laws regarding import of things like that, our customs treat stripper clips like stripper clips (pieces of innocent metal). That'd be great, thanks for the offer.




    Not quite sure if you're asking if I put it together myself from parts, but if you are, I bought it deactivated (as you see in the first photo). I just disassembled and reassembled it for a quick photo.

    It's fascinatingly easy put together. If you're not familiar with it, you push in a small button in the middle of the rear tube end, twist off the cover, pull out the bolt, use the bolt to loosen the barrel nut, and then just pull it straight out.


    Here's a photo of the magazine loader, by the way. You put a stripper clip onto the slot and just pust the magazine against it. When it's empty it pops out on the other end of the loader.
    I thought you'd bought it in parts and assembled it into a functional weapon. Still not disappointed, as it's a nifty little toy now, though a nifty toy that doesn't go bang.. but doesn't get you arrested.. fair trade off.
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  29. Post #11629
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    It would be ten times more nifty if it went bang, but I'm pretty sure I'll get to fire one live someday if I decide to travel to Tallinn. Those drunk Estonians have a habit of renting out F/A guns on their old, worn-down ranges to earn some more eurobucks.

    Edited:

    And you're right in assuming it would be technically challenging! I had always been under the impression that the steel tube is a paper-thin, stamped pipe, but it's really a very beautifully milled piece of heavy steel. It's probably 3-4 mm at its thickest. Weighs a fair bit (3,3 kg I believe).

    There's a huge amounts of spot welds, all around. The trigger group is spot welded onto the receiver and the trigger pins are staked in, no taking them out. It's got a very nifty double-stage trigger, pulling in quickly sets off one round in S/A, pressing it all the way in in one motion switches to F/A.

    The rear sight rotates on a spring-loaded piston, it's got four settings (100, 200, 300, and 400 metres.. which is a bit stupid considering how useless the sights really are).
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  30. Post #11630
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    It would be ten times more nifty if it went bang, but I'm pretty sure I'll get to fire one live someday if I decide to travel to Tallinn. Those drunk Estonians have a habit of renting out F/A guns on their old, worn-down ranges to earn some more eurobucks.

    Edited:

    And you're right in assuming it would be technically challenging! I had always been under the impression that the steel tube is a paper-thin, stamped pipe, but it's really a very beautifully milled piece of heavy steel. It's probably 3-4 mm at its thickest. Weighs a fair bit (3,3 kg I believe).

    There's a huge amounts of spot welds, all around. The trigger group is spot welded onto the receiver and the trigger pins are staked in, no taking them out. It's got a very nifty double-stage trigger, pulling in quickly sets off one round in S/A, pressing it all the way in in one motion switches to F/A.

    The rear sight rotates on a spring-loaded piston, it's got four settings (100, 200, 300, and 400 metres.. which is a bit stupid considering how useless the sights really are).
    Really ambitious with those sights weren't they?

    That's pretty nifty. One of the reasons I build my own stuff is learning all the in's and outs of the weapon, and it's little secrets.
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  31. Post #11631
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    When you look at the force the bolt has travelling forwards, it's safe to assume that it's hard to hit anything past 50 metres. It has a LOT of momentum.
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  32. Post #11632
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    When you look at the force the bolt has travelling forwards, it's safe to assume that it's hard to hit anything past 50 metres. It has a LOT of momentum.
    "dude how far should we make the sights go out to" "I dunno man, fuck it, lets just make it 400 meters" "but it'll never hit that far" "yea, but it's nice to set the bar high".
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  33. Post #11633
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    Comes to mind:

    That said, there are confirmed stories about Norwegian WW2 snipers armed with Krag-Jørgensen rifles with diopter sights engaging German troops at long over a kilometre out, and hitting with multiple kills.

    A bunch of Norwegian DFS shooters - Det frivillige skytter* and hit, were hiding in a mountainside scree when a bunch of Germans with regular K98ks attacked them.

    They held out for a couple of weeks, if I remember right, and held off the Germans using their 6,5x55mm Krags.



    I'm not sure the Sa. 26 is a gun that can do the same feat, however.. divné, ne?


    * Our national rifle shooting association where people shoot match rifles at ranges from 15 to 500(with diopter sights!!) metres during competitions.
    The DFS totals about 170-180 thousand people. It's the second largest sport in Norway. Pretty sure the old DFS-gets-drafted-in-case-of-a-war-deal is still in effect, Vladimir in the East should probably stay away.
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  34. Post #11634
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    5,863 Posts
    Comes to mind:

    That said, there are confirmed stories about Norwegian snipers with Krag-Jørgensen rifles with diopter sights engaging German troops at long over a kilometre out, and hitting with multiple kills.

    A bunch of Norwegian DFS shooters - Det frivillige skyttervesen, our national rifle shooting association where people use match rifles with diopters at ranges from 15 to 500(!) metres, and hit, where hiding in a mountainside scree when a bunch of Germans with regular K98ks attacked them. They held out for weeks, IIRC, and picked of kraut by kraut using their 6,5x55mm Krags.



    I'm not sure the Sa. 26 is a gun that can do the same feat, however.. divné, ne?
    Its the little machine pistol that could. It thinks it can, and that's all that matters.
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  35. Post #11635
    Bring me a bucket, and I'll show you a bucket!
    PrusseLusken's Avatar
    March 2008
    4,757 Posts
    That must've been the mindset of the guy that designed the sights.

    Proposing this to the approval board of Czech submachine gun designs must have required having balls so hard they can be used in APFSDS projectiles..




    (Avatar is very much fitting)
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  36. Post #11636
    Gold Member
    zombini's Avatar
    November 2010
    4,458 Posts
    Been working on this idea for a few hours. From what i know about ballistics, with a subsonic bullet, heavier is better in terms of energy. So i came up with the idea of loading some 600-700gr .500 S&W Magnum rounds with slow-burning powder to subsonic velocities, building a bolt-action rifle that works with .500 S&W Magnum, then putting a suppressor on it. I think it will put the VSS to shame in terms of armor piercing capabilities(the SP-5 rounds, not steel cored SP-6).

    This is just a basic idea, but i wonder what you guys think of it. I'm gonna work more on the details, but i'm not certain that it will ever happen though. It just seems like a cool idea that might be impractical.

    I realize now that it has already been done with the .510 Whisper. So it seems my idea is more practical. A 20rnd box of .510 Whisper goes for $140 in most places, so a .500 S&W Subsonic handload would be a better option.
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  37. Post #11637
    Gold Member
    mastoner20's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,239 Posts
    The Czech make it possible to shoot an SMG at 400m, but we still can't get windage sights standard on our handguns here... I am shamed...

    (Actually, for that matter, I don't think I've owned a rifle with standard stock open sights that were adjustable for windage, actually.)

    Edited:

    Been working on this idea for a few hours. From what i know about ballistics, with a subsonic bullet, heavier is better in terms of energy. So i came up with the idea of loading some 600-700gr .500 S&W Magnum rounds with slow-burning powder to subsonic velocities, building a bolt-action rifle that works with .500 S&W Magnum, then putting a suppressor on it. I think it will put the VSS to shame in terms of armor piercing capabilities(the SP-5 rounds, not steel cored SP-6).

    This is just a basic idea, but i wonder what you guys think of it. I'm gonna work more on the details, but i'm not certain that it will ever happen though. It just seems like a cool idea that might be impractical.
    Energy (kinetic) is mv²/2. Once you get below sonic speeds, you have to double and triple weights of the projectile to equal the initial energy of a supersonic round. When you start increasing the weights to the same levels, you start to tend to get rounds that deposit energy quickly, as opposed to breaking through with heavy pressure. Being as .500 s&w is a flat-nosed round, it's not going to penetrate armor very effectively.
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  38. Post #11638
    Gold Member
    zombini's Avatar
    November 2010
    4,458 Posts
    Energy (kinetic) is mv²/2. Once you get below sonic speeds, you have to double and triple weights of the projectile to equal the initial energy of a supersonic round. When you start increasing the weights to the same levels, you start to tend to get rounds that deposit energy quickly, as opposed to breaking through with heavy pressure. Being as .500 s&w is a flat-nosed round, it's not going to penetrate armor very effectively.
    I was considering a FMJ pointed round actually. I dug around a little and couldn't find any that were above 300gr, but it's a WIP idea. Plus the heavier round will have far more momentum, so even if there's not as much penetration, you're still hitting someone with an extremely heavy bullet that would have the energy of a 5.56. Unless the target was wearing a vest with SAPI plates, the impact alone would kill them.
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  39. Post #11639
    Gold Member
    mastoner20's Avatar
    February 2009
    4,239 Posts
    Injure, definitely. Kill... maybe. Really depends on the vitals and trauma. Firearms have a nasty way of not killing with blunt force unless penetration is done. Broken bones and internal bleeding will likely happen if the armor isn't failed, but that rarely results in immediate or timely death. But, with heavier weight of the 5-600 grains also comes increased drag which further lowers the velocity, which has a negative impact on the energy, as well since a 4% drop in speed has a 4% drop in energy while the same 4% drop in mass has a nearly negligible amount in energy.

    (Sorry, my math was all sorts of mucked up in my head the first try.)
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  40. Post #11640
    Gold Member
    zombini's Avatar
    November 2010
    4,458 Posts
    Injure, definitely. Kill... maybe. Really depends on the vitals and trauma. Firearms have a nasty way of not killing with blunt force unless penetration is done. Broken bones and internal bleeding will likely happen if the armor isn't failed, but that rarely results in immediate or timely death. But, with heavier weight of the 5-600 grains also comes increased drag which further lowers the velocity, which has a negative impact on the energy, as well since a 4% drop in speed has a 4% drop in energy while the same 4% drop in mass has a nearly negligible amount in energy.

    (Sorry, my math was all sorts of mucked up in my head the first try.)
    The increased drag is more related to size, aerodynamics, and overall velocity. For example, a .22 WMR with a 30gr FMJ round would have a muzzle energy of 325ft-lbf and that drops to 120ft-lbf at 100yd. The same caliber with a 40gr JHP at a lower velocity gives a muzzle energy of 324ft-lbf and a drop to 162ft-lbf at 100yd. A heavier bullet loaded to the same energy in the same caliber will carry more energy further than a faster round would. Even thought the JHP is less aerodynamic than the FMJ, the extra weight overcame this deficiency and carried more energy down range. I got this example from Chuckhawks on his page comparing the .17 HMR and the .22 WMR.
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