1. Post #1361
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    Cool, he should order another investigation.
    he isn't

  2. Post #1362
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    He does give false reports on more than one occasion.

    Informing that it's a armed gang. He even states that they're shooting.

    Which is clearly not the case.

    So he lied, to get authorisation to kill them.

  3. Post #1363
    Mexican's Avatar
    July 2009
    5,753 Posts
    maybe he jumped to conclusions too quickly? i don't know. :s
    pretty much. And we have rules designed so you don't do that. And he did that.

  4. Post #1364
    Gold Member
    Billiam's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,687 Posts
    maybe he jumped to conclusions too quickly? i don't know. :s
    This is what I'm trying to say

  5. Post #1365
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    I can see where he's coming from too, that doesn't mean he made the right call.

    Human lives > helicopter pilot's hunches
    again im not defending the gunner here, i can understand where you're coming from too, i'm just trying to show you guys what may have been going through his mind.

  6. Post #1366
    Gold Member
    Billiam's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,687 Posts
    He does give false reports on more than one occasion.

    Informing that it's a armed gang. He even states that they're shooting.

    Which is clearly not the case.

    So he lied, to get authorisation to kill them.
    At some point didn't he fudge the number of weapons?

  7. Post #1367
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    He does give false reports on more than one occasion.

    Informing that it's a armed gang. He even states that they're shooting.

    Which is clearly not the case.

    So he lied, to get authorisation to kill them.
    no, he is telling his superior what he sees and believes. that is not lying.

    he never said they were shooting.

  8. Post #1368
    Gold Member
    Billiam's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,687 Posts
    he isn't
    We need to get more angry.

  9. Post #1369
    Gold Member
    ilikecorn's Avatar
    January 2006
    3,343 Posts
    Cool, he should order another investigation.
    I'm sure he's too busy doing more important things. The white house has already refused to launch another investigation. My thoughts are: DoD is already preparing charges, IF they found that what they did was wrong.. etc etc.

  10. Post #1370
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    This is what I'm trying to say
    pretty much. And we have rules designed so you don't do that. And he did that.
    well then, lol.

  11. Post #1371
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    We need to get more angry.
    we should email him both threads to get his opinion.

  12. Post #1372
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    no, he is telling his superior what he sees and believes. that is not lying.

    he never said they were shooting.
    First he says there is a suspected group of 20 insurgents.

    He later then says he spots 6 guys all armed.

    He then later says the Van is picking up bodies and weapons. When they only picked up one wounded civilian.

    The guy was clearly fudging the intelligence to get clearance.

  13. Post #1373
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts

    He then later says the Van is picking up bodies and weapons. When they only picked up one wounded civilian.
    to be fair, he didn't know this person was a civillian.

  14. Post #1374
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    But the van was not picking up bodies or weapons.

    So why would he relay that incriminating information?

  15. Post #1375
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    they were picking bodies.

  16. Post #1376
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    But the van was not picking up bodies or weapons.
    i do recall one or two people trying to grab the injured man

  17. Post #1377
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    they were picking bodies.
    They picked up a injured man. Not trying to cover up an insurgent cell.

  18. Post #1378
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    he was a suspected insurgent.

  19. Post #1379
    HUGE RACIST
    TH89's Avatar
    January 2005
    16,347 Posts
    again im not defending the gunner here, i can understand where you're coming from too, i'm just trying to show you guys what may have been going through his mind.
    I understand what was going through his mind.

    What I'm saying is there are reasons military people are trained to follow procedure, and whatever was going through his mind wasn't a good enough reason not to follow procedure. But he decided it was, and broke procedure, and now journalists are dead.

    Edited:

    he was a suspected insurgent.
    Shooting him doesn't make him any more guilty, it just makes him more dead.

  20. Post #1380
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    I understand what was going through his mind.

    What I'm saying is there are reasons military people are trained to follow procedure, and whatever was going through his mind wasn't a good enough reason not to follow procedure. But he decided it was, and broke procedure, and now journalists are dead.


    Shooting him doesn't make him any more guilty, it just makes him more dead.
    Mexican and I came to this same conclusion already.

    and again, i do believe he's referring to what the gunner thought was going on, he's not trying to defend him.

  21. Post #1381
    Gold Member
    Fables's Avatar
    August 2007
    4,239 Posts
    For fuck's sake, I left this thread yesterday to come back with 600 new post.

  22. Post #1382
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    he was a suspected insurgent.
    That's not the issue.

    He relayed the information that the van was picking up BODIES and WEAPONS. Which is a suspicious behaviour, thus command gave him clearance to engage.

    Do you honestly think they would have had clearance if they said something like they spotted a civilian vehicle, in a busy civilian suburb, and that the occupants were trying to move an unarmed wounded man?

  23. Post #1383
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    i feel bad for you Makol, i pretty much said the exact same thing earlier and i had a bunch of guys go after me acting as if i'm trying to defend the gunner

  24. Post #1384
    Gold Member
    Billiam's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,687 Posts
    Mexican and I came to this same conclusion already.

    and again, i do believe he's referring to what the gunner thought was going on, he's not trying to defend him.
    Hey fuck you, I was there too. :colbert:

  25. Post #1385
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    Hey fuck you, I was there too. :colbert:
    alright alright, sorry. cred to you too :love:

  26. Post #1386
    Mr Jazz
    Makol's Avatar
    January 2009
    38,811 Posts
    i feel bad for you Makol, i pretty much said the exact same thing earlier and i had a bunch of guys go after me acting as if i'm trying to defend the gunner
    I'm not trying to defend anyone, I'm just stating my opinions. what the gunner did was wrong but to him it was the right thing.

  27. Post #1387
    Gold Member
    Sleepy Head's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,452 Posts
    I'm not trying to defend anyone, I'm just stating my opinions. what the pilot did was wrong but to him it was the right thing.
    thank you holy shitting jesus. this is what i was trying to do.

  28. Post #1388
    Gold Member
    hypno-toad's Avatar
    October 2006
    14,593 Posts
    ehhhh, another 20 pages of arguing coming up.
    Hey, check this guy out, he's totally right.


    Same people too, hahaha.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Canada Show Events Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  29. Post #1389
    Gold Member
    Billiam's Avatar
    July 2008
    7,687 Posts
    Hey, check this guy out, he's totally right.


    Same people too, hahaha.
    This is 35 pages.

  30. Post #1390
    Mexican's Avatar
    July 2009
    5,753 Posts
    I'm not trying to defend anyone, I'm just stating my opinions. what the gunner did was wrong but to him it was the right thing.
    And to everyone else and the military it was the wrong thing so whee.

    Charles Manson was also doing "the right thing."

  31. Post #1391
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    March 2010
    445 Posts

  32. Post #1392
    Actually a cool guy
    David29's Avatar
    June 2005
    2,984 Posts
    What the people who are claiming they are not carrying weapons seem to be forgetting is that this is a warzone. Yes, they could be carrying camera equipment, but the picture is grainy and it is impossible to tell for certain what they are carrying. Out there, both on the ground and in the air, soldiers and pilots alike cannot afford to take the chance that they are not carrying weapons when they can see weapon-like objects.

    I don't know what they are - it's too blurry to tell - but I don't blame the pilot for his actions. The van, I admit is slightly more controversial and I don't really have any comments on that, but I think some people need to start looking more at the weapon issue from a combat point of view.

  33. Post #1393
    Gold Member
    Ickylevel's Avatar
    March 2007
    1,679 Posts
    It's a camera , not a RL. Ok I'm late.

  34. Post #1394
    Gold Member
    evilweazel's Avatar
    June 2009
    11,596 Posts
    Why cant journalists just make arrangements with the military to say "Hey, me and my guards with AKs and an rpg(hurr) are going to take pictures today, please do not shoot at us." seems like it would solve a lot of problems.

  35. Post #1395
    Gold Member
    Ickylevel's Avatar
    March 2007
    1,679 Posts
    Look at how they walk in the beginning, would soldiers do that ?

  36. Post #1396
    Gold Member
    evilweazel's Avatar
    June 2009
    11,596 Posts
    Yeah this, insurgents pick up their allies weapons and bodies when they die so no one will know how many people they killed, if any at all.

  37. Post #1397
    Gold Member
    massn7's Avatar
    October 2005
    1,640 Posts
    I'll post this again -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-2

    Not every RPG has to be the tried and true RPG-7. What the one guy is carrying definitely fits the outline of an RPG-2, I'd say.

    As for the van... really nothing to say on that.

  38. Post #1398
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    June 2005
    15,081 Posts
    What the people who are claiming they are not carrying weapons seem to be forgetting is that this is a warzone.
    People are also forgetting, it's a city, not just a warzone.

  39. Post #1399
    Gold Member
    dryer-lint's Avatar
    May 2006
    2,021 Posts
    Well icky they're not professional soldiers, they're a bunch of ordinary people who one day decided to go and shoot at people without any real training.

  40. Post #1400
    Gold Member
    massn7's Avatar
    October 2005
    1,640 Posts
    People are also forgetting, it's a city, not just a warzone.
    Which happens to be in the middle of a warzone.

    Ergo, it's a warzone.