1. Post #41
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Just an FYI, I totally agree with you guys, i'm just playing devil's advocate (lol, irony) so to speak.
    I know. I just wanted to endorse Klingon religious philosophy.

    Edited:

    "We killed our gods. They were more trouble than they were worth."

    Edited:

    "With fire and steel did the gods forge the Klingon heart. So fiercely did it beat, so loud was the sound, that the gods cried out, 'On this day we have brought forth the strongest heart in all the heavens. None can stand before it without trembling at its strength.' But then the Klingon heart weakened, its steady rhythm faltered and the gods said, 'Why do you weaken so? We have made you the strongest in all of creation.'

    And the heart said... 'I am alone.'

    And the gods knew that they had erred. So they went back to their forge and brought forth another heart.

    But the second heart beat stronger than the first, and the first was jealous of its power. Fortunately, the second heart was tempered by wisdom.

    'If we join together, no force can stop us.'

    And when the two hearts began to beat together, they filled the heavens with a terrible sound. For the first time, the gods knew fear. They tried to flee, but it was too late. The Klingon hearts destroyed the gods who created them and turned the heavens to ashes. To this very day, no one can oppose the beating of two Klingon hearts."



    Klingons have got it right.
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  2. Post #42
    Gold Member
    cdBiohazard's Avatar
    August 2009
    2,666 Posts
    in the video? there were lots of new points there, like the whole thing about external forces limiting him and how it's just like putting pieces of the puzzle together
    Isn't a new point nor something groundbreaking at all.
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  3. Post #43
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,967 Posts
    If God defies logic, then there's no reason why there should be any evidence for him.


    Just an FYI, I totally agree with you guys, i'm just playing devil's advocate (lol, irony) so to speak.
    Wooo, someone agrees with me!

  4. Post #44
    hello im nobody.
    Eesha's Avatar
    July 2009
    698 Posts
    damn i thought this was a combo video of God Hand.

    now im confused.

  5. Post #45
    I am a moderator.
    Swebonny's Avatar
    August 2006
    13,238 Posts
    You infidels come up with fun theories.
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  6. Post #46
    Gold Member
    MachiniOs's Avatar
    September 2008
    12,517 Posts
    Well the idea of a Demi-God (some one who is powerless/less powerful than God) has been around for a while now.

  7. Post #47
    Xephio's Avatar
    December 2009
    3,696 Posts
    i cant be the only one who thinks that guy sounds like Christopher Walken

  8. Post #48
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,150 Posts
    apatheism best theism
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  9. Post #49
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,336 Posts
    There is no God in the same way as there is no Batman or Spider-man out there running loose.

    Not sure if that means anything to anybody, but that's as far as God goes.

  10. Post #50
    An airbag saved my life
    Drax-Quin's Avatar
    February 2007
    2,121 Posts
    I had a similair argument to this one however I always thought it was weirder that God specifically choose to create our universe or any universe at all. Obviously he was clearly constrained in someway if you buy into the whole 'fine-tuned universe' idea. It does address some inconsistencies, mainly as to why god would construct an entire universe and not say just our planet and why the rest of the universe seems to be completely hospitable to all life.


    From an immediate overview there is no need for an Omnipotent, perfect being to construct anything. On top of that we're supposed to believe God not only constructed the universe but that it's intended purpose is purely just to test the human species (which is even weirder when you add in the whole original sin concept or any adam/eve story from the other Abrahamic faiths). Not just to test them but purely just to place them in heaven and hell, as I've stated before I fail to see what god gets from any of this, why does an all powerful being give a damn. You can't claim he is beyond everything and then claim he created the universe for such a petty need (or arguably even by creating it at all) those two idea contradict each other. Also if he is omniscient whats the point in even creating the test? He would already know the outcome for every single individual.


    On top of this the idea, the specifics of our universe also make a God concept absurd, not just for the above reasons but because God would have had to intentionally constructed each piece of our universe. By that I mean he would have consciously chosen to design each animal in each specific way, each planet in each specific way, each person etc. This means God isn't unknown nor perfect as his character would clearly be embedded in his design, it's like an artist drawing a painting, you can clearly tell each artist apart by the personality in his design, so clearly God is limited if we're to believe he designed our universe in the specific order we see it today, it reflects his character which shouldn't be possible if we're to believe he is Omnipotent. In otherwords god should have no clear design or personality as these are constraints to the idea of an infinitely powerful entity.


    That's just my two cents worth, kinda based on what DarkAntics was talking about, great video by the way.

    Edited:

    It's been my impression that the religious never start the argument, but that may be just the people around me.

    These types of videos always seem to be a huge waste of time to me (just like the entire body of media that TAA has released to the internet)

    Your very niave if you think "the religious never start the argument" when the very video you talk about is against the "fine-tuned universe argument" itself, please continue to make silly assertions without evidence. Also I fail to see how this is a waste of time, I mean arguably that's purely subjective but it gets people to think in different ways and be analytical, I don't like TAA so I can't speak on that behalf but videos like this are very interesting because of their philosophical nature, and also if there's still people in this world who believe in illogical ideas then there will be people to talk about the absurdness of those ideas, and I'm definitely glad there are more of those people. That's how things work sadly.

  11. Post #51
    GOLF WANG
    Alec W's Avatar
    August 2006
    7,607 Posts
    I like this argument.

    I like videos like these.

    They make me feel a little bit less alone.
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  12. Post #52
    Gold Member
    Negrul1's Avatar
    November 2007
    5,326 Posts
    This strays quite close to the Gnostic argument, though it isn't the same. Gnostic thinking holds that the God of the old testament was a flawed being who only believed he was an all powerful creator, and basically the material world sucks because it was created by an imperfect god. It's a fascinating religion.

    So basically, the argument has been done before, over a millennium ago. Still clever though.

  13. Post #53
    Twitty's Avatar
    May 2008
    480 Posts
    He speaks as if we are on the same level as an almighty being. What if God just thought "external restrictions" would be an interesting obstacle for life to overcome so he created physics.

    Sounds to me as if he likes to hear himself talk.

  14. Post #54
    An airbag saved my life
    Drax-Quin's Avatar
    February 2007
    2,121 Posts
    He speaks as if we are on the same level as an almighty being. What if God just thought "external restrictions" would be an interesting obstacle for life to overcome so he created physics.

    Sounds to me as if he likes to hear himself talk.
    It's a refutation of the fine-tuning argument what don't you understand J-Dude summed it up pretty well to someone who claimed the same thing:

    This video is going a step further into the SOUL of the fine-tuning argument, and saying, if god is all-powerful, why does he NEED to "fine-tune" the Universe? Can't it just work because he SAYS it works? If the only way any of it works is because god HAD to make it a certain way, then obviously god has no control over the conditions in which life works, and is working WITH pre-existing conditions, like we do, and not MAKING the rules himself, as the notion of him creating EVERYTHING ultimately demands.
    Also as I stated it's illogical to assume an Omnipotent god would need to create a universe for any purpose to begin with, and that the current universe's design regarding physics or any chosen "external restriction" he placed is an embedded characteristic of his personality, if God has such clear set characteristics in that he choose to define the universe as it is and not in any other possible way then you cannot also claim him to be beyond all creation, as his creation is inherently part of his chosen design, he CHOOSE to create this universe like it is and not any other possible way he could have. How therefore can he be said to be beyond everything in existence if he clearly must par-take in the simple conscious choice of design.

  15. Post #55
    Gold Member
    bIgFaTwOrM12's Avatar
    October 2010
    1,523 Posts
    This argument makes a lot of assumptions, such as the idea that God would never consider working within the realms of the laws of nature to do as he wishes, although there are many examples of him doing so within the bible(a woman turning into a pillar of salt instantaneously, turning a staff into a snake, splitting the red sea, a friggin' chariot of fire taking a someone into the sky, etc.). I'm of course making this argument within the realms of what I believe as this argument is trying to use Christian's beliefs against them.

    The argument is just as useful as asking why JRR Tolkein didn't have Frodo just turn into a giant steel titan, run into Mordor and destroy the ring without any need for the events of the book. The answer is that there was a plan for how the events would occur and the design he chose was in accordance to it, I believe the same in the case of God.

    As for the rest of the video where he asks why the universe isn't an endless garden of Eden, I find it interesting that he mentions that because it's explained right in Genesis when Adam and Eve are banished from the garden. It's clearly stated that once they committed the original sin life would be much harder and they would have to fight for their survival.

    As I said above, I'm not asking anyone to believe this, I'm just offering evidence against the videos arguments which are meant to use arguments for God against him.

    Wouldn't free will also go against god since its something outside of his control?
    Well it's something he created and chose for us to have so that our love for him could be genuine, I see it as he chooses not to control us like robots.
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  16. Post #56
    imasillypiggy's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,851 Posts
    Wouldn't free will also go against god since its something outside of his control?
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  17. Post #57
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,336 Posts
    If God is this and that, then how come God ISN'T this and that?

  18. Post #58
    REMBER's Avatar
    June 2010
    2,595 Posts
    This video is pointless. This thread is pointless. This is pointless.
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  19. Post #59
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,150 Posts
    This video is pointless. This thread is pointless. This is pointless.
    religion is a funny thing

    the only winning move is not to play

  20. Post #60
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,336 Posts
    The only winning move is to be a winner at life, having an advanced philosophy/outlook, being a strong, good-hearted individual who believes in something bigger than himself; his society, no?

  21. Post #61
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,150 Posts
    The only winning move is to be a winner at life, having an advanced philosophy/outlook, being a strong, good-hearted individual who believes in something bigger than himself; his society, no?
    from a spiritual point of view maybe, but look at it objectively; if there's a god he has no impact on your day-to-day life. why should you concern yourself with his possible existence? just be a nice person and try to minimalize suffering. that's more or less the point to human life, not trying to prove or disprove irrelevant matters, that'll just waste time that we only have so much of
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  22. Post #62
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,336 Posts
    I don't concern myself with God's "possible" existence.

    There are literally hundreds of different Gods to start with, so..

  23. Post #63
    Liamhailhail2.0's Avatar
    June 2011
    1,121 Posts
    I think the idea of a 'god' isn't actually a real being, it is more of the feeling of comfort and happiness that you have inside you and around you. To be in 'touch' with god is actually being happy.

  24. Post #64
    Bat-shit's Avatar
    October 2010
    13,336 Posts
    I think the idea of a 'god' isn't actually a real being, it is more of the feeling of comfort and happiness that you have inside you and around you. To be in 'touch' with god is actually being happy.
    Very good, only most people don't give a shit about shit like that. I do though, at least I think I do.

  25. Post #65
    Mr. Scorpio's Avatar
    May 2010
    11,298 Posts
    I think the idea of a 'god' isn't actually a real being, it is more of the feeling of comfort and happiness that you have inside you and around you. To be in 'touch' with god is actually being happy.
    I believe that is literally word for word what parents say to their kids when explaining how they didn't lie about Santa Clause.

  26. Post #66
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2008
    1,912 Posts
    I don't get it, what is this "finely tuned-argument" he's talking about?