1. Post #81
    Gold Member
    JustExtreme's Avatar
    April 2007
    7,157 Posts
    Welcome the massive growth in the black market and associated crime lovingly :)

    Authoritarian measures like this are not the answer, education is the answer and if people continue to smoke tobacco even when they know the dangers it should be left up to them as it is their liberty and they should have to pay for the associated medical costs.

  2. Post #82
    Rankxerox's Avatar
    June 2008
    875 Posts
    Now do the same with alcohol, if you already want to make more people who've made their own choices mad.

  3. Post #83
    Gold Member
    GoDong-DK's Avatar
    November 2009
    14,894 Posts
    Because the government doesn't belong in my body. I'm a big boy, I can make my own decisions.
    I completely agree that people should decide themselves what they want to do witht heir body, but this is *still* a choice. I think it is a outragous price though, but I don't find the system here in Denmark bad. There's no "gain" from smoking (there's of course the relaxing aspect, but still), and many young people begin early on, which is not a good thing. Lungcancer is pretty expensive to treat as well, and as we have free helthcare here in Denmark, the 8-10$ isn't by any means too high.

    Edited:

    Welcome the massive growth in the black market and associated crime lovingly :)

    Authoritarian measures like this are not the answer, education is the answer and if people continue to smoke tobacco even when they know the dangers it should be left up to them as it is their liberty and they should have to pay for the associated medical costs.
    Now, if we go this route, people should also pay for the education wasted on them - they took away 7 years of their lives, why shouldn't they pay for the education that could've gone to a longer-living person?

    If we had to pay for all state-related wasted resources because of personal choices, society would eb a mess.
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  4. Post #84
    More like; "Your childish actions could end up costing many people the funds that they should get from our healthcare system because of an accident or from no fault of their own. Since you are most likely going to get cancer because of the actions that you take, we are going to make it very expensive for you go take those actions. Then we can put the money we would spend on you to good use saving people that truly deserve it."
    by that logic someone who breaks his leg leaning too far on a ladder also deserves to pay $10k or whatever the ludicrous bills are in the US, purely because a momentary decision.

  5. Post #85
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    Fuck just cigarettes, let's make all drugs legal. Except pot, it's called dope for a reason.
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  6. Post #86
    valkery's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,656 Posts
    by that logic someone who breaks his leg leaning too far on a ladder also deserves to pay $10k or whatever the ludicrous bills are in the US, purely because a momentary decision.
    No, because that was a momentary, reaction that, while unfortunate and possibly preventable, was not a long drawn out group of actions that led to his hospitalization. Also, a broken leg is much easier to fix than lung cancer, diseased liver, and failing kidneys.

  7. Post #87
    Gold Member
    Headhumpy's Avatar
    June 2005
    894 Posts
    Because the government doesn't belong in my body. I'm a big boy, I can make my own decisions.
    yeah but your second-hand smoke doesn't belong in my body either.
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  8. Post #88
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    yeah but your second-hand smoke doesn't belong in my body either.
    Hold your breath.
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  9. Post #89
    -Get_A_Life-'s Avatar
    June 2008
    1,183 Posts
    the problem with cigarettes it's that they are harming not only the smoker, but the people nearby him
    In my country smoking inside a public building is illegal. This includes bars and restaurants. Add to that I don't know many smokers who actually stick to non-smokers in order to blow their smoke right on their face.
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  10. Post #90
    Str4fe's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,104 Posts
    Thats not a good thing. Groups will form over there JUST to sell cigarettes illegally, cause its a good business.

    Now what happens when two of these groups have a fight over their territories where they sell the cigarettes? Figure out the rest.

    And another reason why i think its bad is that smoking is entirely our decision, not the governments.

  11. Post #91
    Fabulous!
    Jack Trades's Avatar
    April 2010
    6,483 Posts
    Thank god the world has governments to protect people from choice!
    I think it's a good idea. :colbert:
    Smokers can ruin their lungs as much as they want, but I'm not a fan of passive smoking.

    At least alcoholics don't go around spitting vodka on everyone.
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  12. Post #92
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    I think it's a good idea. :colbert:
    Smokers can ruin their lungs as much as they want, but I'm not a fan of passive smoking.

    At least alcoholics don't go around spitting vodka on everyone.
    It's funny because you can move or ask them to, most people who smoke are fine with accommodating a little bit and most people that I've ever known also step outside to smoke in the first place.

  13. Post #93
    Sexist
    person11's Avatar
    July 2006
    6,998 Posts
    what a kind and compassionate thing to do, drastically increase the price of an addictive substance, surely that is a reasonable way to enforce your own lifestyle on a huge population of people. i can't believe 45 people thought this is a good idea, at least it makes an easy list of people to never take seriously ever again

    Edited:



    huh? what are you even talking about
    The government should discourage through information, not banning or excessive taxation.
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  14. Post #94
    Fabulous!
    Jack Trades's Avatar
    April 2010
    6,483 Posts
    It's funny because you can move or ask them to, most people who smoke are fine with accommodating a little bit and most people that I've ever known also step outside to smoke in the first place.
    And what if I'm already outside, waiting for a bus, for example, and there's some fucker smoking like a chimney?
    No matter where I stand, I still smell his smoke stench that makes me want to puke my lungs out.
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  15. Post #95
    -Get_A_Life-'s Avatar
    June 2008
    1,183 Posts
    And what if I'm already outside, waiting for a bus, for example, and there's some fucker smoking like a chimney?
    No matter where I stand, I still smell his smoke stench that makes me want to puke my lungs out.
    Relocate your so precious lungs 2 to 3 meters away. Smoke won't chase you like it's its only goal to fuck up your health.
    And you just had to deal with a single asshole, most of us just step away from the crowd to light a cig.
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  16. Post #96
    I completely agree that people should decide themselves what they want to do witht heir body, but this is *still* a choice. I think it is a outragous price though, but I don't find the system here in Denmark bad. There's no "gain" from smoking (there's of course the relaxing aspect, but still), and many young people begin early on, which is not a good thing. Lungcancer is pretty expensive to treat as well, and as we have free helthcare here in Denmark, the 8-10$ isn't by any means too high.
    $8-10 is a bit expensive but way better than $100. $100 is like pointing a gun at your head and saying if you smoke I'll shoot you, but you still have choice.

    yeah but your second-hand smoke doesn't belong in my body either.
    I think it's a good idea. :colbert:
    Smokers can ruin their lungs as much as they want, but I'm not a fan of passive smoking.

    At least alcoholics don't go around spitting vodka on everyone.
    Why do people keep bringing up second-hand smoke like it's relevant? I don't care if the government makes laws restricting smoking in public places. That comes down to keeping one person's actions from interfering with other people's choices, which is a very legitimate function of government. Telling people they shouldn't be allowed to smoke in their own homes or something, even indirectly by means of an absurd tax, is not.
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  17. Post #97
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    I don't see the point in this, just tax it so the government makes back what they'll lose from the inevitable health care costs. I also think smoking around children should be counted as abuse, if hitting your child is counted as abuse, then so should smoking around them.
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  18. Post #98
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    I don't see the point in this, just tax it so the government makes back what they'll lose from the inevitable health care costs. I also think smoking around children should be counted as abuse, if hitting your child is counted as abuse, then so should smoking around them.
    K because when dshs(I know this is new zealand) knocks on your door and ruins your family AT LEAST THERE WASN'T SECONDHAND SMOKE RITE?

  19. Post #99
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    K because when dshs(I know this is new zealand) knocks on your door and ruins your family AT LEAST THERE WASN'T SECONDHAND SMOKE RITE?
    So if they beat their kids to discipline them you think nothing should be done?

  20. Post #100
    Abused by Girlfriend
    geogzm's Avatar
    January 2010
    19,785 Posts
    smokers irritate me in public places when they blow their smoke (which smells like roasted wheat + shit) around and it often ends up drifting over to my nose

  21. Post #101
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    I don't see the point in this, just tax it so the government makes back what they'll lose from the inevitable health care costs. I also think smoking around children should be counted as abuse, if hitting your child is counted as abuse, then so should smoking around them.
    yes let's dilute the recognition of an extremely serious crime with your silly bullshit.

    Why not just call smoking nose-rape so you can put smokers on sex-offender registries as well.

    COMPLETELY rational.

  22. Post #102
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    yes let's dilute the recognition of an extremely serious crime with your silly bullshit.
    I'm talking about using corporal punishment not beating your kid senseless for the hell of it.

  23. Post #103
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    I'm talking about using corporal punishment not beating your kid senseless for the hell of it.
    No.

    That is the dumbest fucking thing.

    That's about as dumb as when premarital sex between teenagers was defined as a form of rape (statutory) and remains so to this very day.

    We already have laws in place to protect children. We don't need more to vindicate your own personal sensitivities.

  24. Post #104
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    No.

    That is the dumbest fucking thing.

    That;s about as dumb as when premarital sex between teenagers was defined as a form of rape (statutory) and remains so to this very day.
    So you think hitting kids as a form of discipline is okay?

  25. Post #105
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    So you think hitting kids as a form of discipline is okay?
    I think you're fucking delusional if you see smoking as equivalent.

  26. Post #106
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    I think you're fucking delusional if you see smoking as equivalent.
    So smacking a kid on the arse when he's bad is worse than potentially causing him breathing problems?

  27. Post #107
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    So smacking a kid on the arse when he's bad is worse than potentially causing him breathing problems?
    Child abuse is a very serious thing, don't act like secondhand smoke should be treated at all the same.
    I don't want families broken up and ruined over someone deciding to light a cigarette near their kids.

  28. Post #108
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    So smacking a kid on the arse when he's bad is worse than potentially causing him breathing problems?
    Yes.

    I don't understand how far your head must be up your own ass if you think smoking a cigarette and (potentially) inflaming minor asthma-like symptoms is as bad as fucking beating a child.

    You need to drop it. I don't care what you think of cigarettes. Don't go attaching your bullshit onto legitimate issues just to vindicate yourself. It does your argument no favors and simply makes a fool out of you.

    If you don't like cigarettes, talk about cigarettes. Don't pull this "OH SO YOU THINK BEATING A CHILD IS OKAY, THEN?" horse shit you just tried.

  29. Post #109
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    Yes.

    I don't understand how far your head must be up your own ass if you think smoking a cigarette and (potentially) inflaming minor asthma-like symptoms is as bad as fucking beating a child.

    You need to drop it.
    Very easily, smaking a child when he's bad has the potential to cause psychological problems, much the same as how smoking might cause the child asthma, either way you're potentially harming the child and please stop trying to make it out as though I'm comparing it to parents who beat their kids senseless every night and argue properly.

  30. Post #110
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    Very easily, smaking a child when he's bad has the potential to cause psychological problems, much the same as how smoking might cause the child asthma, either way you're potentially harming the child and please stop trying to make it out as though I'm comparing it to parents who beat their kids senseless every night and argue properly.
    K go get beat as a child then go get a little smoke blown in your face and tell me which is worse.
    Smoke is terrible but fuck you for making this comparison and acting like peoples lives should be ruined over it.

  31. Post #111
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    please stop trying to make it out as though I'm comparing it to parents who beat their kids senseless every night and argue properly.
    You are.


    So you think hitting kids as a form of discipline is okay?
    I said something about smoking, and you came back and indirectly accused me of being a child-beater.

    Drop the fucking act.
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  32. Post #112
    churboi austin
    Trogdon's Avatar
    October 2007
    13,241 Posts
    using analogies in the news section should be a bannable offense
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  33. Post #113
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    K go get beat as a child then go get a little smoke blown in your face and tell me which is worse.
    Smoke is terrible but fuck you for making this comparison and acting like peoples lives should be ruined over it.
    My parents did smack me as a child before it was discovered to cause mental problems in children. Personally I've had no problems from it what so ever and would for prefer what they did to asthma.

    Edited:





    I said something about smoking, and you came back and indirectly accused me of being a child-beater.

    Drop the fucking act.
    Erm, don't remember accusing you of being a child beater sorry.

  34. Post #114
    Gold Member
    Sniping Robot's Avatar
    July 2010
    993 Posts
    Governments should educate the public on health issues related to smoking and advertising of cigarettes should be banned.

  35. Post #115
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    My parents did smack me as a child before it was discovered to cause mental problems in children. Personally I've had no problems from it what so ever and would for prefer what they did to asthma.

    Edited:


    Erm, don't remember accusing you of being a child beater sorry.
    Obviously you have had problems from it with those fucked up views.

    And when you say child abuse I don't envision spanking or whatever to a small degree(still borderline child abuse) I think of beating the shit out a kid. Don't compare smoking to that.

  36. Post #116
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    Obviously you have had problems from it with those fucked up views.

    And when you say child abuse I don't envision spanking or whatever to a small degree(still borderline child abuse) I think of beating the shit out a kid. Don't compare smoking to that.
    Right so I miscommunication the point and you mistook what I was talking about as serious child abuse (despite the fact I cleared that up in an earlier post), however my point still stands, if physical discipline banned because it might cause harm to children, why shouldn't smoking.

    And don't start with the "oh you are fucked up though with your fucked up views" bullshit, nothing I actually meant was fucked up, you just misunderstood it.

  37. Post #117
    gay mexican
    Lankist's Avatar
    July 2006
    14,576 Posts
    Governments should educate the public on health issues related to smoking and advertising of cigarettes should be banned.
    in the US advertising of cigarettes IS banned.

    Not only that, but cigarette companies are legally required to fund anti-smoking campaigns such as TRUTH.

    And studies have shown that smoking among minors has become MORE common since. That strategy has been tried and it is failing miserably. Same with DARE programs.
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  38. Post #118
    zakedodead's Avatar
    September 2007
    3,256 Posts
    Right so I miscommunication the point and you mistook what I was talking about as serious child abuse (despite the fact I cleared that up in an earlier post), however my point still stands, if physical discipline banned because it might cause harm to children, why shouldn't smoking.

    And don't start with the "oh you are fucked up though with your fucked up views" bullshit, nothing I actually meant was fucked up, you just misunderstood it.
    My point isn't even with the physical abuse being worse than smoking(it is) but more of what dshs or other social welfare groups do to families with child abuse. Being taken out of a quite possibly loving family and put into some foster home that's likely to be even worse for you in the long run just because someone likes to smoke is fucking stupid.

  39. Post #119
    Gold Member
    reedbo's Avatar
    July 2005
    2,488 Posts
    And what if I'm already outside, waiting for a bus, for example, and there's some fucker smoking like a chimney?
    No matter where I stand, I still smell his smoke stench that makes me want to puke my lungs out.
    Your so called 'right to breath clean air' also happens to interfere with that man's 'right to smoke in public'. Get over yourself and ask him politely to leave or leave yourself.
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  40. Post #120
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,300 Posts
    My point isn't even with the physical abuse being worse than smoking(it is) but more of what dshs or other social welfare groups do to families with child abuse. Being taken out of a quite possibly loving family and put into some foster home that's likely to be even worse for you in the long run just because someone likes to smoke is fucking stupid.
    Of course they wouldn't deal with it in the same way as serious child abuse where the child is severely beaten, but something should be done about people smoking around children, it's not fair on the child.