1. Post #1
    Frodo Baggins's Avatar
    April 2012
    98 Posts
    Hi,

    Whats your opinion on the Conspiracy about 9/11? Some people think it was planned by the government, and wasn't all the work of The terrorists. For example:

    (taken from BBC, link below)
    The question: Why did the world's most powerful air force fail to intercept any of the four hijacked planes?

    Conspiracy theorists say: The then US Vice President Dick Cheney ordered the military to stand down and not to intercept the planes.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14665953
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

    Whats yr opinion? I personally think 9/11 wasn't the US government, but what do you think?

    -Frodo

  2. Post #2
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    515 Posts
    Well, personally I do not think it was the government. I am pretty sure a government like ours isn't that idiotic to crash a plane into a their own building. With thousands of civilians inside, on the plane, and on the ground. The government had nothing to gain if they did cause 9/11.

  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    darcy010's Avatar
    August 2009
    6,986 Posts
    Despite all the 'evidence' I couldn't fathom even George Bush devising the 911 attacks.
    It seems far more likely to just be a terrorist attack.

  4. Post #4
    PolarEventide's Avatar
    January 2012
    637 Posts
    Despite all the 'evidence' I couldn't fathom even George Bush devising the 911 attacks.
    It seems far more likely to just be a terrorist attack.
    Are you implying that George W. Bush isn't intelligent enough to plan such a clever ruse? Not quite sure if I'm just looking too far into what you said or not.

  5. Post #5
    Talkbox's Avatar
    March 2010
    1,124 Posts
    The only thing that really makes me wonder if something funny could have been going on is AE911truth;


    It is still unlikely though.

  6. Post #6
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    515 Posts
    Are you implying that George W. Bush isn't intelligent enough to plan such a clever ruse? Not quite sure if I'm just looking too far into what you said or not.
    Like I said, if the government did really do it. Would would they possibly have to gain?

  7. Post #7
    PolarEventide's Avatar
    January 2012
    637 Posts
    Like I said, if the government did really do it. Would would they possibly have to gain?
    While I don't believe that the government really did it, the gain is rather obvious. By planning an attack against yourself than a foreign combatant would willingly accept claim for, you justify war. Al Qaeda would gladly take responsibility for an attack against the United States. Why would the government want to justify war? Most likely, oil. People talk about the war on oil a lot, but it's rarely understood. In all likelihood, you don't have American companies like Exxon Mobil going into heated combat zones drilling oil. What you do have is the possibility of a new democratic, American-loving, Western-esque regime. Such a regime would probably be more willing to allow American oil companies to come drill.

  8. Post #8
    Like I said, if the government did really do it. Would would they possibly have to gain?
    a easily malleable irrationally fearful public who will do any to protect their safety.

  9. Post #9
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    515 Posts
    a easily malleable irrationally fearful public who will do any to protect their safety.
    Good point, but that may risk the possibility of widespread panic. Which may in-turn cause rioting and other messes for them to deal with.

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Combin0wnage's Avatar
    September 2006
    1,243 Posts
    I personally find the 9/11 conspiracy theories to be just downright offensive to me sometimes, but I understand they have the right to say it.

    Most of the theories point out how impossible an entire building complex and part of the Pentagon collapsing is, but they underestimate gravity, engineering, and fire's effect on the day of September 11th. Not to mention all of the mis-quotes and mis-information that is used amongst conspiracy theorists.

    Edited:

    a easily malleable irrationally fearful public who will do any to protect their safety.
    By bombing and killing several of their own employees?

  11. Post #11
    Marbalo's Avatar
    June 2011
    2,310 Posts
    Like I said, if the government did really do it. Would would they possibly have to gain?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

  12. Post #12
    Ask Me About my Castlevania fetish.
    Derpmonster's Avatar
    February 2012
    515 Posts
    Yea, I forgot all about this. It goes to show that again, I am a total idiot.

  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Combin0wnage's Avatar
    September 2006
    1,243 Posts
    The US has used (Or what seems like) false flags before, but most if not all of them got discovered eventually.

    Imagine being the biggest country in the world, and not a single person that was in on the operation even considered spilling the beans, and go down in history as, "The man who showed America's true colours."

    Edited:

    This article kinda summarizes what I am trying to say:
    http://www.cracked.com/article_15740...nside-job.html

  14. Post #14
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Personally I think the government is not that competent to where they could have pulled off the biggest conspiracy in history without leaving sufficient evidence to prove it.

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    Jim_Riley's Avatar
    February 2006
    1,542 Posts
    There is no conspiracy.

    Failure to act sooner comes from a lack of understanding of "terrorism" and taking it seriously. Terrorism against America was a new deal. Our intelligence agencies were not prepared to deal with it like we do now (hence 9/11 being a pivotal point in history for changing quite literally the world and especially how things work in America). It was something we could have taken far more seriously years prior but that's retrospect. We learn from our mistakes.

    9/11 was not done by the government and it's not an inside job. People need to accept how it has happened already and get on with their lives because there is NO evidence to support an inside job and all "reputable" sources regarding that are whack job conspiracy sites that actually purposely construe information to fit their own belief.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member

    May 2005
    2,268 Posts
    Those sources actually do put forward some good reasons why the government would want to do it, I just fail to see how the US government is or ever was competent enough to pull off such a massive conspiracy in front of everyone's faces.

  17. Post #17
    Zambies!'s Avatar
    August 2009
    8,240 Posts
    I believe this comic sums up what noble is saying

    There is no way in HELL that the government could keep a conspiracy of epic proportions intact. It's incomprehensible.

  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    MaikkiBoi's Avatar
    May 2010
    966 Posts
    It was just a reason to attack Middle-East.

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,671 Posts
    It was just a reason to attack Middle-East.
    ... Which the US benefited from, how? Oil imports to the US from Iraq have remained unchanged since before or after the invasion (in fact all it did was further destabilize the region,) and if we somehow knew about the massive mineral deposits in Afghanistan it's moot, since the Japanese own the rights.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2009
    866 Posts
    It was just a reason to attack Middle-East.
    Yeah that went real well now didn't it.

  21. Post #21
    Gordy H.'s Avatar
    April 2010
    1,206 Posts
    The Government would have nothing to gain from 9/11. An excuse/false flag to invade Afghanistan? Well, sure, except for the fact that we already had reason to engage Al Qaeda and its allies.

  22. Post #22
    Dummkopfs!'s Avatar
    August 2010
    1,012 Posts

  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    Madman_Andre's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,239 Posts
    I believe this comic sums up what noble is saying

    There is no way in HELL that the government could keep a conspiracy of epic proportions intact. It's incomprehensible.
    Remember Watergate? Nixon was undone by one disgruntled FBI agent who got pissed about not being promoted and went to the press with the corruption he knew of.

  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    Splarg!'s Avatar
    September 2005
    2,429 Posts
    Because the ONLY thing our government could come up with to get us into a war was killing 3,000 civilians. For fuck's sake.

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    elowin's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,792 Posts
    Remember Watergate? Nixon was undone by one disgruntled FBI agent who got pissed about not being promoted and went to the press with the corruption he knew of.
    They just gave everyone a promotion that day, obviously.

  26. Post #26
    Fluttershy Enthusiast
    thelurker1234's Avatar
    June 2011
    5,586 Posts
    Hi,

    Whats your opinion on the Conspiracy about 9/11? Some people think it was planned by the government, and wasn't all the work of The terrorists. For example:

    (taken from BBC, link below)
    The question: Why did the world's most powerful air force fail to intercept any of the four hijacked planes?

    Conspiracy theorists say: The then US Vice President Dick Cheney ordered the military to stand down and not to intercept the planes.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14665953
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

    Whats yr opinion? I personally think 9/11 wasn't the US government, but what do you think?

    -Frodo
    Why would the air force blow up the hijacked planes with people inside?

  27. Post #27
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    While I don't believe that the government really did it, the gain is rather obvious. By planning an attack against yourself than a foreign combatant would willingly accept claim for, you justify war. Al Qaeda would gladly take responsibility for an attack against the United States. Why would the government want to justify war? Most likely, oil. People talk about the war on oil a lot, but it's rarely understood. In all likelihood, you don't have American companies like Exxon Mobil going into heated combat zones drilling oil. What you do have is the possibility of a new democratic, American-loving, Western-esque regime. Such a regime would probably be more willing to allow American oil companies to come drill.
    If that is true, then why have oil imports from Iraq only decreased since the invasion, and why were the hijackers depicted as Saudis and not Iraqi, and why did we invade Afghanistan first? Please answer these questions, because your story isn't making any sense. Why did a whole new conspiracy with WMDs have to be constructed when the hijackers could have simply been depicted as Iraqi agents?

  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    elowin's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,792 Posts
    If that is true, then why have oil imports from Iraq only decreased since the invasion, and why were the hijackers depicted as Saudis and not Iraqi, and why did we invade Afghanistan first? Please answer these questions, because your story isn't making any sense. Why did a whole new conspiracy with WMDs have to be constructed when the hijackers could have simply been depicted as Iraqi agents?
    Because they were stupid and didn't think it through, i'd say if i thought it was true.

  29. Post #29
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Because they were stupid and didn't think it through, i'd say if i thought it was true.
    They were smart enough to plan such an intricate and thorough conspiracy and keep it a secret from everyone for a decade, yet they did it all for no reason whatsoever because they didn't think it through?

    Yeahno

  30. Post #30
    ♥ Futashy is best pone ♥
    Futashy's Avatar
    April 2010
    747 Posts
    Like I said, if the government did really do it. Would would they possibly have to gain?
    A green light to invade a country that has oil n shit

    Why would the air force blow up the hijacked planes with people inside?
    its a "kill 50 innocent people to save a 100 lifes" type of thing

  31. Post #31
    About as smart and adept as a pile of turds
    oakman26's Avatar
    January 2010
    3,467 Posts
    I doubt that if it was the government there would be no way to keep it secret

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,671 Posts
    A green light to invade a country that has oil n shit
    Thing is; if we were going to invade a country for it's oil, why not Saudi Arabia? They have a lot more oil, coastal shipping, and many of the terrorists were Saudi Arabian.

    Besides, if you look at the amount of oil shipping that's been going on following the invasion of Iraq there hasn't actually been any large-scale extraction of oil for American interests, in fact we probably lost more then we gained from invasion.

  33. Post #33
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    10,969 Posts
    Three points I'd like to make that pretty much destroy the conspiracy theories:

    1. There was no stand down, in the entire decade before 9/11 one aircraft was forced down and it took more than twice the amount of time the hijacked planes were in the air, there was not any secret standdown, planes were sent up to intercept the second the government became aware of what was going on, they even broke protocol and the sound barrier to try and get there in time, they simply couldn't do it fast enough.

    2. That whole "architects and engineers for 9/11 truth" consists of 00.01% of the world's architects and engineers.

    3. This is the Bush administration we're talking about. The Bush administration, do you really think they're capable of anything near this?

    This is not a question of whether or not the US government had the motive to do something like this, it is a question of whether or not the US government had the capability to do this and not be blamed, and the answer is no. We got outplayed, simple as that.

  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Sgt Doom's Avatar
    March 2005
    20,195 Posts
    Oh christ, not this again.
    2. That whole "architects and engineers for 9/11 truth" consists of 00.01% of the world's architects and engineers.
    This is absolutely vital for people to know.
    The vast majority of the people who signed as part of this nutcase group are either faking it, have arse-wiping-value degrees, or are in a completely unrelated field, like landscape architect. For those not in the know, that's a fucking GARDENER.

    Edited:

    Thing is; if we were going to invade a country for it's oil, why not Saudi Arabia? They have a lot more oil, coastal shipping, and many of the terrorists were Saudi Arabian.

    Besides, if you look at the amount of oil shipping that's been going on following the invasion of Iraq there hasn't actually been any large-scale extraction of oil for American interests, in fact we probably lost more then we gained from invasion.
    Not that i'm taking the conspiracy theorists' side, but invading the very beating heart of Islam wouldn't go too well.

  35. Post #35

    April 2012
    30 Posts
    Yeah that went real well now didn't it.
    It's been great for defense contractors and some oil companies.

  36. Post #36
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    If you truly think the government did 9/11, you're an idiot.

    (User was banned for this post ("This is not debating." - Megafan))

  37. Post #37
    It's been great for defense contractors and some oil companies.
    To lose tons of people and have to pay the families and to have oil exports in the middle east actually lessen?

  38. Post #38

    April 2012
    30 Posts
    To lose tons of people and have to pay the families and to have oil exports in the middle east actually lessen?
    Who is having to pay families? Reducing oil exports is bad for the US economy and US consumers, but it seems only to have helped oil companies become more profitable. Mission Accomplished. War is the ultimate government program. The costs are socialized, while the profits are private.

    If I'm wrong about the reasons for our wars, I challenge you to come up with a motivation that makes more sense. Do you honestly think the Bush Administration was actually concerned about "weapons of mass destruction?"

  39. Post #39
    Gordy H.'s Avatar
    April 2010
    1,206 Posts
    A green light to invade a country that has oil n shit



    its a "kill 50 innocent people to save a 100 lifes" type of thing
    Except 9/11 only gave us a 'green light' to invade Afghanistan, which is devoid of any oil. It does have large amounts of rare minerals but US companies don't have contracts to mine any of it(last time I checked, anyway).

  40. Post #40
    Not that bad of a seed
    asteroidrules's Avatar
    January 2011
    10,969 Posts
    Who is having to pay families?
    The government? Contractors?