1. Post #121
    Kind of the type of system the world at large could use. People evaluating the situation from their own perspective and helping out voluntarily where they feel it's needed. The fact that such a system has brought Valve such success gives me hope.

    But Human greed...
    There's a reason why getting into valve is so hard, they only pick the best. If they accepted anyone and everyone the company would crash and burn the next day.
    Most of the general public is stupid.
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  2. Post #122
    The Cold Wind Of France
    MaxOfS2D's Avatar
    November 2008
    18,237 Posts
    Welp, I showed this to my father, he said it was stupid.
    He's utterly against the idea of me wanting to work for Valve, he's tried so many times to talk me out of it.
    He even thinks Seattle is in Canada...
    dude, by the time you even qualify for any of the current job openings

    (which are all like, senior-level participation in previous shipped projects — so Valve is almost a retirement place for game devs when you think about it)

    your parents won't have any authority over you any more, or will probably be deceased

    Rockstar usually makes a game every year or so, and they are on the same level of quality as Valve, so if you had to pick a yearly company to work at they would be nice...especially compared to Activision.
    Rockstar and iD software are known in the industry for not treating employees too well

    Gearbox is very open and friendly from what I'm aware, they're a bit like Valve but with the standard hierarchical stuff

  3. Post #123
    Gold Member
    smurfy's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,368 Posts
    I can't help feeling like they are too good to be true...

    I mean, we got EA, Activison, Apple as some of the worst companies with the worst policies out there, who butcher other companies and even their own staff along with its customers, and then there is Valve, where everybody enjoys working there, doing awesome stuff to make customers happy (which most of them are, at the very least) that helps other companies by merging with them in certain projects and letting them help on Valve's own projects.

    At this day and age, thats something rare, to the point of being odd, how a company can still be so loved and even escalate that love further.

    What if their employees are only silent of the "real Valve"? What if there is some evil deep within the company that we don't know about?

    It amazes me how Valve can be this good. Their products might even not be "SUPER EVOLVED GRAPHICS GAMEPLAY THINGAMAJIGS" like other companies that try to make the best graphics/multiplayer/singleplayer/sound/whatevergimickyfeature ahead of everything else, yet Valve creates something that is a mix of all those features with very good quality, and still makes a heart warming product that doesn't costs your ass + your ass bones later (if you get what I mean).

    How is it possible for something like Valve to exist nowadays?
    I don't think it's that amazing

    Making your employees feel like an important part of a reputable developer (i.e. by telling them the instant they join that they are equal to every other employee) will motivate them, inspire them and result in good products

    Making them feel like a disposable cog in the massive corporate machines of Activision or EA will result in shitty products

    That is, it should be no surprise that Valve, a company known for making good games, also treats its employees well, because these things are linked. It's the same for Google

    I think the reason everyone doesn't use this model is that the execs can't get shit done. As it says in this handbook, if Gabe says he wants something done, everyone can just say no and that's it. Who is going to willingly structure their company so that they have no power?
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  4. Post #124
    Charybdis's Avatar
    March 2010
    1,287 Posts
    Valve: Doing it fucking right

    I had dreams of working at Valve when I was a kid but I realized the amount of math skills and practice required for anything that has to do with making games was too daunting and discouraging for me.
    Hey man I have severe dyscalculia, and I got a pretty good job in the games business but then again, I don't work with code
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  5. Post #125
    Glod Menber
    Dennab
    January 2011
    3,249 Posts


    lol
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  6. Post #126
    Gold Member
    Géza!'s Avatar
    January 2008
    5,876 Posts
    I don't think it's that amazing

    Making your employees feel like an important part of a reputable developer (i.e. by telling them the instant they join that they are equal to every other employee) will motivate them, inspire them and result in good products

    Making them feel like a disposable cog in the massive corporate machines of Activision or EA will result in shitty products

    That is, it should be no surprise that Valve, a company known for making good games, also treats its employees well, because these things are linked. It's the same for Google

    I think the reason everyone doesn't use this model is that the execs can't get shit done. As it says in this handbook, if Gabe says he wants something done, everyone can just say no and that's it. Who is going to willingly structure their company so that they have no power?
    Also, since Steam is so massively successful that Valve may as well be printing money, they can afford to be a creative powerhouse instead of a regular company.
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  7. Post #127
    Gold Member
    Schmoe222's Avatar
    June 2005
    875 Posts
    Being a sounds designer/composer for Valve would be kick ass.
    Valve would definitely be awesome to work for, but you wouldn't really be able to compose full time there - they want people who are going to work in many different areas.

  8. Post #128
    Gold Member
    Scotchair's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,327 Posts
    I graduate from my BA(hons) Animation degree in about 4 weeks, plan on spending the first 3-4 years in London getting industry experience... then I shit you not, I'm gonna submit my CV to Valve, Weta and Pixar every 6 months for the rest of my career.
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  9. Post #129
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    I graduate from my BA(hons) Animation degree in about 4 weeks, plan on spending the first 3-4 years in London getting industry experience... then I shit you not, I'm gonna submit my CV to Valve, Weta and Pixar every 6 months for the rest of my career.
    Why not google, they're awesome too.
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  10. Post #130
    Gold Member
    Scotchair's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,327 Posts
    Cause an animator/vfx artist wouldn't be much use at google...
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  11. Post #131
    RAPISTS ARE OPPRESSED
    mobrockers2's Avatar
    April 2011
    12,403 Posts
    Cause an animator/vfx artist wouldn't be much use at google...
    You never know, they have so many projects going on, I'm sure they have some work for you.
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  12. Post #132
    Gold Member
    Juniez's Avatar
    May 2007
    6,701 Posts
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  13. Post #133
    Also, since Steam is so massively successful that Valve may as well be printing money, they can afford to be a creative powerhouse instead of a regular company.
    Quite a lot of big ass companies would be printing shit ton of money too if they redesgined the way they work. Especially when it comes to realizing customers are more than just cattle with money.
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  14. Post #134
    Ask about my EBOLA fetish
    GameDev's Avatar
    February 2010
    12,357 Posts
    Wisconsin isn't that bad..

    I mean err valve hire me im from WI and i design levels

  15. Post #135
    Gold Member
    Ninja Duck's Avatar
    July 2010
    11,925 Posts
    You know you're slightly different from other people when you're more excited over the structuring than the week-long company vacation.
    I like how much collaboration and real working-together there is. Also that you're not hired to fill a specific role, you're there to use all of your skills to create the best product possible for the costumers along with the other skills your fellow employees have. I'm the kind of guy that would rather have a wider set of skills that I'm very good at, rather than a one trick dog that's a master.

    Now that I have a sense of the working environment, I'm actually going to work towards this as a goal, and not just a dream anymore. I want to see my creative potential, and Valve sounds like the best place to do that, while meeting new people and serve the Steam community that I've been a part of for years.
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  16. Post #136
    Gold Member
    JustExtreme's Avatar
    April 2007
    7,008 Posts
    Kind of the type of system the world at large could use. People evaluating the situation from their own perspective and helping out voluntarily where they feel it's needed. The fact that such a system has brought Valve such success gives me hope.

    But Human greed...
    Indeed, lots of different types of greed too, not all of them monetary or physical resource based.

    There always seems to be people who want to control the private lives and opinions of others.

    I feel Valve is a good example of a community culture that is not compulsory to join and even if you do join your own path is left very much up to you. I'm guessing the hiring/auditing process helps weed out the control seekers.
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  17. Post #137
    One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces.
    AJisAwesome15's Avatar
    May 2011
    5,880 Posts
    None of us will ever get a job at valve.
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  18. Post #138
    Gold Member
    JustExtreme's Avatar
    April 2007
    7,008 Posts
    Whether any of us get a job at Valve or not I think that the real message we should each take from this is that hierarchical traditional business structure is unnecessary and that if we want to do something we should get together voluntarily with like-minded individuals and do it without imposing unnecessary restrictions.

    Natural leaders would emerge and people could voluntarily opt into working under them or alongside them depending on the individually evolving team dynamic.
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  19. Post #139
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  20. Post #140
    Gold Member
    meppers's Avatar
    April 2007
    9,163 Posts
    remember: valve has 250~ employes and they get thousands of resumes each year


    oh and if your life story isn't as amazing as these people:
    http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/people.html


    you have an almost zero chance of being hired
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  21. Post #141
    The Union Jack would look a shit ton better with a Hammer and Sickle in the middle of it
    Bobie's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,167 Posts
    id like to own a company like this one day. maybe not for games, but something in the creative industry
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  22. Post #142
    id like to own a company like this one day. maybe not for games, but something in the creative industry
    Open an outsourcing company in China, treat them well, get rep
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  23. Post #143
    Gold Member
    JustExtreme's Avatar
    April 2007
    7,008 Posts
    Or India perhaps, they're growing like fuck over there and their country produces some pretty motivated and dedicated workers
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  24. Post #144
    The Union Jack would look a shit ton better with a Hammer and Sickle in the middle of it
    Bobie's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,167 Posts
    Open an outsourcing company in China, treat them well, get rep
    every game would end up being a WoW clone or the next starcraft sequel
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  25. Post #145
    Rastadogg5's Avatar
    June 2010
    3,507 Posts
    None of us will ever get a job at valve.
    IIRC there's already a Valve Employee on FP.
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  26. Post #146
    Gold Member
    Fables's Avatar
    August 2007
    4,239 Posts
    What is this? No business hierarchy? Dirty Pinko Communist the lot of 'em!

  27. Post #147
    Gold Member
    Fippe's Avatar
    November 2007
    3,574 Posts
    IIRC there's already a Valve Employee on FP.
    Yes, PersonGuy.
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  28. Post #148
    Gold Member
    Madman_Andre's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,239 Posts
    Half-Life: Episode 3 ARG.

    Calling it right now.
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  29. Post #149
    Gold Member
    Wormy's Avatar
    July 2010
    7,983 Posts
    Yes, PersonGuy.
    And DrunkenF00L.
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  30. Post #150
    I like cheese...
    lionheart1066's Avatar
    July 2009
    1,942 Posts
    dude, by the time you even qualify for any of the current job openings

    (which are all like, senior-level participation in previous shipped projects — so Valve is almost a retirement place for game devs when you think about it)

    your parents won't have any authority over you any more, or will probably be deceased
    Yes I understand that I have a long way to go, but long distances can be shorterned pretty quickly in some cases. Its just the issue that I have is that some people just don't understand me when I say that I'd want to at some point in my life to work for or with Valve.

  31. Post #151
    I'm also a valve employee



       no I'm not I'm a fucking LOSER :(   


    Please be real.
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  32. Post #152
    Gold Member
    Ithon's Avatar
    March 2005
    3,238 Posts
    I've seen several of the employee's vaction photos to hawaii that's mentioned about the big vaction they had, a few of them went and shoved a shovel into lava to cross it off their bucket list.

  33. Post #153
    Gold Member
    booster's Avatar
    July 2006
    20,799 Posts
    "Any work on EP3 must not be mentioned until the stars are right"
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  34. Post #154
    "Any work on EP3 must not be mentioned until the stars are right"
    where is that?

  35. Post #155
    Gold Member
    hexpunK's Avatar
    August 2008
    15,154 Posts
    Rockstar and iD software are known in the industry for not treating employees too well

    Gearbox is very open and friendly from what I'm aware, they're a bit like Valve but with the standard hierarchical stuff
    Yeah I've heard the stories of Rockstar giving some employees extreme deadlines, but with the scales of their games, and the technologies they have been implementing recently I can kind of see why they'd want their employees on the ball. Plus Gearbox kinda wouldn't be where they are today without Valve I'd say, Valve publishing OpFor and Blue Shift for them must have really helped, and they probably inherited some of Valves' internal structuring from it realising it works for smaller companies.

    That is the only problem with the way Valve works inside. For their (pretty small) number of employees, this system works. It's easy to find out what everyone is up to, easy enough to learn who everybody is and who will be able to help you with certain problems. But for bigger companies like IW, first-party EA devs, etc. This system would not work. There are too many people to easily place, not everybody will be a world class in their speciality, you would need a hierarchy of sorts to make sure that the right people are working to their strong points.

    It's one of the same reasons Anarchy and Communism would not work in society, with small numbers of people it's possible as everyone will want to work towards a greater goal for a better share. But with larger numbers of people not everyone is bound to have that viewpoint, and will use the fact that there are more people to work less and provide less. While these people doing more work will want more out of it. It's more to do with the size of a population than the "rules", smaller developers always seem more free-form than larger ones because it can work there.
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  36. Post #156
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    August 2005
    12,791 Posts
    I wonder what would a guy like me who has little to no experience in programming and modeling and anything of the sort be of use there.

    Not counting janitor duties or anything of the sort, I mean to actually contribute to their products and such.

  37. Post #157
    fuck it says they're working on dota 2 in the timeline but not ep3 wtf

  38. Post #158
    I wonder what would a guy like me who has little to no experience in programming and modeling and anything of the sort be of use there.

    Not counting janitor duties or anything of the sort, I mean to actually contribute to their products and such.
    Probably nothing.
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  39. Post #159
    Gold Member
    smurfy's Avatar
    October 2007
    21,368 Posts
    Yeah I've heard the stories of Rockstar giving some employees extreme deadlines, but with the scales of their games, and the technologies they have been implementing recently I can kind of see why they'd want their employees on the ball. Plus Gearbox kinda wouldn't be where they are today without Valve I'd say, Valve publishing OpFor and Blue Shift for them must have really helped, and they probably inherited some of Valves' internal structuring from it realising it works for smaller companies.

    That is the only problem with the way Valve works inside. For their (pretty small) number of employees, this system works. It's easy to find out what everyone is up to, easy enough to learn who everybody is and who will be able to help you with certain problems. But for bigger companies like IW, first-party EA devs, etc. This system would not work. There are too many people to easily place, not everybody will be a world class in their speciality, you would need a hierarchy of sorts to make sure that the right people are working to their strong points.

    It's one of the same reasons Anarchy and Communism would not work in society, with small numbers of people it's possible as everyone will want to work towards a greater goal for a better share. But with larger numbers of people not everyone is bound to have that viewpoint, and will use the fact that there are more people to work less and provide less. While these people doing more work will want more out of it. It's more to do with the size of a population than the "rules", smaller developers always seem more free-form than larger ones because it can work there.
    Valve's about 3 times the size of IW and slightly larger than DICE

  40. Post #160
    General Stanley's Avatar
    November 2009
    320 Posts
    I don't think I could work for Valve. Their kindness and complete relaxed attitude would just make me feel double the failure if I let them down. Especially if they started saying "Oh well, at least you tried your best."
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