1. Post #1
    I once worked at a sperm bank, the food was terrible
    The Baconator's Avatar
    April 2011
    9,228 Posts
    The sequel to Defense of the Ancients (DOTA) will be free-to-play "with a twist", according to the co-founder of Valve, Gabe Newell.

    Speaking on a yet to be released podcast shared by the producers early with Polygon, Newell told Seven Day Cooldown that the PC and Mac-compatible real-time strategy game will use a free-to-play funding model, but one that hasn't been used in any other game before.

    "It's going to be free-to-play -- it'll have some twists, but that's the easiest way for people to think about it," Newell said.

    When prodded over what kind of twists players can expect, Newell said:

    "The issue that we're struggling with quite a bit is something I've kind of talked about before, which is how do you properly value people's contributions to a community?

    "We're trying to figure out ways so that people who are more valuable to everybody else [are] recognized and accommodated. We all know people where if they're playing we want to play, and there are other people where if they're playing we would [rather] be on the other side of the planet.

    "It's just a question of coming up with mechanisms that recognize and reward people who are doing things that are valuable to other groups of people."

    Newell provided examples of behavior that would be rewarded, such as players who are useful guides or those who volunteer their time to train others. He said he could not point to an existing free-to-play model that works like the model that Valve has in mind for DOTA 2. He did not specify how valued players would be identified or rewarded.

    Newell added that he wants to see this kind of reward system expand into other games.

    "When you start thinking about the different games that people play and you try to think about how people can create value or a service in one game and benefit somebody in a different game, you can start to see how the different games sort knit together," Newell said.

    "[You can see] how somebody who really likes Team Fortress 2 (TF2) can still be creating value for somebody who is playing DOTA 2 or Skyrim, or if somebody is a creator in one space how it can translate into another.

    "In a sense, think of individual games as instance dungeons of a larger experience, if that makes sense as a concept."

    When asked if this move towards connecting people in games means that Steam is in the process of morphing into a kind of social network, Newell said that Valve is not looking to turn Steam into a social network, at least not in the traditional sense of the word.

    "Most of the time when people try to ask us questions like that, they usually have really specific things in mind that don't map exactly to what we have in mind," he said.

    "So when somebody from the general business press says a social network, they generally mean are you going to have a website that looks like Facebook.

    "If I had to talk about a model, it would be more about how gamers can benefit from a collective action of all the other gamers and there are a bunch of different ways that can occur, whether from things that look like traditional social networking notifications to higher-value activities. As far as I know, Facebook doesn't have the ability for people to fundamentally modify or edit the underlying Facebook experience."

    Newell described his vision of a gaming social network as allowing Valve to make people as valuable as possible.

    "It really is more a legacy of John Carmack's way of thinking about things than it is social networking," he said.

    "It's just that now we have the horsepower and the experience in the gaming community to try and figure out how all these experiences get knit together in a way that's valuable."
    http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...y-with-a-twist

    This was all but confirmed since the beginning, despite what out of touch Facepuncher's kept telling me, but it's interesting to see how they will continue to innovate the F2P model
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    Madman_Andre's Avatar
    November 2007
    7,239 Posts
    I forsee hats. Lots and lots of hats...
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  3. Post #3
    President of the Westboro Baptist Church Fan Club
    Dennab
    February 2012
    2,084 Posts
    Like TF2, the FTP only covers the war-themed part and not the hat simulator.
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member

    August 2006
    772 Posts
    Aslong as you don't pay to win im fine with this.
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  5. Post #5
    foxcock
    Bletotum's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,874 Posts
    so basically it is free if you a good community type of person; it costs money if you are the lazy player, such as myself, who plays the game only once in a while

    it almost sounds like a bad thing, but that is just my jealousy talking
    it's a big title game, giving it for free to some players who keep the game alive seems reasonable

    though i'm curious as to how this works, it isn't like these favored players will get their money back

    so maybe it is free, and some optional things in a shop are easier to come by for favored players?
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    ***zer0***'s Avatar
    May 2010
    3,471 Posts
    I hate to say this, but i'm not liking this whole free to play trend going on.
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  7. Post #7
    HAND.CAT
    barttool's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,609 Posts
    "VAC has detected you're griefing in this server. The game has been blocked. You must pay 15$ to unlock the game again"

    Edited:

    "Click here to buy more SteamCoins"
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  8. Post #8
    Fabulous Vailglorous Extraordinaire
    Haxxer's Avatar
    February 2007
    10,709 Posts
    I hate to say this, but i'm not liking this whole free to play trend going on.
    Yeah, I mean who could possibly like free things?
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  9. Post #9
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,482 Posts
    "We're trying to figure out ways so that people who are more valuable to everybody else [are] recognized and accommodated. We all know people where if they're playing we want to play, and there are other people where if they're playing we would [rather] be on the other side of the planet.
    I foresee system which will force unlikeable (not related to skill, I mean, rude, trolling, etc) players (karma system?) to pay while good, friendly and fair players get to play more for free.

    Something like limit of games per day you can play for free unless you pay which is adjusted based on how much do others enjoy your presence.


    If you pull this one off, Gabe, I will bow to you.

    Horrible player base is probably the biggest problem of all MOBAs.
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  10. Post #10
    The Feral Chicken formerly known as "El Pollo Diablo"
    RaptorBlackz's Avatar
    January 2008
    4,201 Posts
    real-time strategy game will use a free-to-play funding model, but one that hasn't been used in any other game before.
    Doubt it, Will probs be like the free2play for HON/LOL
    Say phantom lancer early access "play him a month before everyone else and get a exclusive skin"
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  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    Ray-The-Sun's Avatar
    December 2007
    11,865 Posts
    Yeah, I mean who could possibly like free things?
    I see his point: a lot of F2P games have severe balance issues with items that are technically possible to get while playing free, but either time consumingly or impractically.
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  12. Post #12
    foxcock
    Bletotum's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,874 Posts
    I hate to say this, but i'm not liking this whole free to play trend going on.
    F2P is dandy as long as paying does not create a significant advantage

    that said, I am okay with really good games having limited demo types in multiplayer

    it's all about how it is marketed; I hate the idea of a game being free to play in a way that implies an equal footing where paid players dominate.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Political Gamer's Avatar
    October 2009
    5,182 Posts
    -snip-
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    Ray-The-Sun's Avatar
    December 2007
    11,865 Posts
    Something like limit of games per day you can play for free unless you pay which is adjusted based on how much do others enjoy your presence.
    Please, dear god, no. Spiral Knights did the thing where it limited how much you could play for free, and it was awful.
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  15. Post #15
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    26,085 Posts
    It will probably be like League of Legends.

    Free to pay, but cosmetics are paid and you can pay to get higher currency rewards.
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  16. Post #16
    foxcock
    Bletotum's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,874 Posts
    =
    Something like limit of games per day you can play for free unless you pay which is adjusted based on how much do others enjoy your presence.
    yuck
    games with a fee to play singular rounds or to have online access are awful
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  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    Ins4ne's Avatar
    November 2008
    910 Posts
    Hopefully beta access accounts get some sort of reward.
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  18. Post #18
    [img][b][color=red]Fuck this isnt HTML[/color][/b][/img]
    BackSapper's Avatar
    February 2009
    1,649 Posts
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  19. Post #19
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,482 Posts
    Please, dear god, no. Spiral Knights did the thing where it limited how much you could play for free, and it was awful.
    Spiral Knights is a progress based MMO tho. You need to "grind" to progress.

    There is nothing to progress in MOBAs (except LoL but that's not DotA2s case) but your stats and vanity items.

    I would be completely happy with limit of five matches per day for free if it meant the assholes get only two (-3) matches and good players get eight (+3), which means I would meet four times more players than assholes.

    Edited:

    You need to edit the heading to say "Hatseeker"
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  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    TheTalon's Avatar
    June 2008
    20,313 Posts
    I remember when big game companies didn't have to reward you for being nice, people just were
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  21. Post #21
    Desuh's Avatar
    November 2011
    10,659 Posts
    -snip-

  22. Post #22
    Gold Member
    carcarcargo's Avatar
    October 2007
    15,289 Posts

    Something like limit of games per day you can play for free unless you pay which is adjusted based on how much do others enjoy your presence.

    How do you judge how nice a player is? Reports from other players? That would pretty much be used to grief other players by making them pay more for their game, not really fair to be honest.
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  23. Post #23
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,482 Posts
    I remember when big game companies didn't have to reward you for being nice, people just were
    I don't.
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    Lone Wolf807's Avatar
    July 2007
    3,245 Posts
    I forsee hats. Lots and lots of hats...
    There's no hats.

  25. Post #25
    2014 SH Pun Award Nominee
    Awesomecaek's Avatar
    January 2009
    21,482 Posts
    How do you judge how nice a player is? Reports from other players? That would pretty much be used to grief other players by making them pay more for their game, not really fair to be honest.
    Yeah that came to my mind as well. I guess you would have to obviously take larger samples, and possibly observe the behavior with some amount of automation, perhaps keep the feedback and the whole "favor better players" purely positive, leaving no penalties but simply rewarding those liked.

  26. Post #26
    World's Okayest Comic Guy
    usaokay's Avatar
    February 2005
    17,914 Posts
    I forsee hats. Lots and lots of hats...
    Yeah, there are cosmetics players can purchase.

    http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Cosmetic_Items

  27. Post #27
    Flubascrub
    Flubadoo's Avatar
    August 2009
    10,532 Posts
    I hate to say this, but i'm not liking this whole free to play trend going on.
    HoN tried to do a non-F2P model for a game like this.
    It failed.

    Honestly, I don't see any other reasonable options, seeing as how incredibly different games in the Dota genre are from any other games, and how hard the game can be.
    If they made it one-time pay, the reviewers would all get pissed off since they wouldn't even get close to learning the basics of the game in a few days, then proceed to shit out 5/10s and etc.

    It has to be F2P so people can try it and see if they like it.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Political Gamer's Avatar
    October 2009
    5,182 Posts
    Yeah that came to my mind as well. I guess you would have to obviously take larger samples, and possibly observe the behavior with some amount of automation, perhaps keep the feedback and the whole "favor better players" purely positive, leaving no penalties but simply rewarding those liked.
    It would also have to be spread out over a period of time to deter spammers. Say if a player got x number of similar reports over y number of weeks from z number of different people they would receive a penalty using those factors.

  29. Post #29
    I make sexist and racist jokes all the time yet,i still support the feminist movement and the rights of blacks.
    znk666's Avatar
    July 2010
    5,535 Posts
    Defense of the hats 2

  30. Post #30
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  31. Post #31
    Flubascrub
    Flubadoo's Avatar
    August 2009
    10,532 Posts
    Ohgodwhy.

    GabeN, don't do this.
    Dota 2 would flop like HoN if they made you pay an initial fee.

    Hell, what do you have to complain about? It's not like they will make you unlock heros, it's only cosmetics.
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  32. Post #32
    own-fucking-zone
    Within's Avatar
    April 2009
    4,016 Posts
    Do they have a new hat engine for DOTA 2?
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  33. Post #33
    I once worked at a sperm bank, the food was terrible
    The Baconator's Avatar
    April 2011
    9,228 Posts
    Hat comments are getting old

  34. Post #34
    own-fucking-zone
    Within's Avatar
    April 2009
    4,016 Posts
    I agree.
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  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    Ray-The-Sun's Avatar
    December 2007
    11,865 Posts
    There's no hats.
    What are you talking about? There's tons. Hell, they even had Kunkka's pirate gear implemented before he was even playable.

  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    October 2010
    2,532 Posts
    I hope it doesn't go to the point where you buy heroes.

  37. Post #37
    Yukinari's Avatar
    April 2010
    3,168 Posts
    I hope it doesn't go to the point where you buy heroes.
    In before Hero Rotation.

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Mingebox's Avatar
    February 2010
    14,742 Posts
    Please, dear god, no. Spiral Knights did the thing where it limited how much you could play for free, and it was awful.
    I thought Spiral Knights did it pretty well. At least when I was playing, you could earn enough energy each trip to make enough for the next plus a little left over. The problem was with the insane about of energy it took to craft items.

  39. Post #39
    Axelius's Avatar
    May 2009
    520 Posts
    HoN tried to do a non-F2P model for a game like this.
    It failed.

    Honestly, I don't see any other reasonable options, seeing as how incredibly different games in the Dota genre are from any other games, and how hard the game can be.
    If they made it one-time pay, the reviewers would all get pissed off since they wouldn't even get close to learning the basics of the game in a few days, then proceed to shit out 5/10s and etc.

    It has to be F2P so people can try it and see if they like it.
    F2P opens the game up for more people but Hon was more fun when it wasn't F2P.

  40. Post #40

    March 2012
    56 Posts
    now people can make multiple accounts and lose on purpose and shit like that