1. Post #161
    There is no such thing as an infinitely small number e.g. 0.000...01.
    Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999.....m_in_education
    For there to be continuity, don't we need numbers to be infinitely close?

  2. Post #162
    calzoneman's Avatar
    February 2008
    460 Posts
    For there to be continuity, don't we need numbers to be infinitely close?
    This all goes back to the concept of infinity.
    Imagine that such a number 0.000...01 did exist.
    There would be an infinite number of 0s, and therefore you never reach the one. The entire concept of a non-terminating decimal is that you cannot pick a digit and say "this is the last digit" because you will never get there. Every time you might reach the 1 at the end, there are still infinitely more 0s before you can reach it.
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  3. Post #163
    ~ ducks ~
    Kwaq's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,327 Posts
    its really simple when you look at fractions

    like 0.3˘ x 3 (dunno how to do right symbol)
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  4. Post #164
    Kaelazun's Avatar
    November 2008
    1,818 Posts
    What are people trying to prove here? Math, or what numbers represent and how they work?
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  5. Post #165
    This all goes back to the concept of infinity.
    Imagine that such a number 0.000...01 did exist.
    There would be an infinite number of 0s, and therefore you never reach the one. The entire concept of a non-terminating decimal is that you cannot pick a digit and say "this is the last digit" because you will never get there. Every time you might reach the 1 at the end, there are still infinitely more 0s before you can reach it.
    If we take 0.99999 and instead of "reading it"from the first 9 we "read it" on the 9 in the middle, we can put a finite number of 9's on each side. If we keep adding 9's to the left and to the right of the middle 9, we'll have an infinite decimal with infinite 9's to the left of it. We can't identify how many digits you have to go to reach the first 9, it's infinite. That doesn't mean it's not there, if it weren't the chain would never exist.

  6. Post #166
    calzoneman's Avatar
    February 2008
    460 Posts
    If we take 0.99999 and instead of "reading it"from the first 9 we "read it" on the 9 in the middle, we can put a finite number of 9's on each side. If we keep adding 9's to the left and to the right of the middle 9, we'll have an infinite decimal with infinite 9's to the left of it. We can't identify how many digits you have to go to reach the first 9, it's infinite. That doesn't mean it's not there, if it weren't the chain would never exist.
    What you're saying doesn't make sense. The very idea that the decimal extends infinitely makes it impossible to choose a "middle".

    Edited:

    What are people trying to prove here? Math, or what numbers represent and how they work?
    It's people who know math vs. people who think they're going to disprove the work of educated Mathematicians who gave us the evidence we're arguing.
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  7. Post #167
    Middle can be any digit that is infinitely far away from the extremities of the number, the argument stays the same.

    Let's take a semi-line if you prefer. It has a defined start but stretches to infinity. if you place the origin of your referential on infinity, the origin of the line will be located at infinity, but it will still be there, it'll exist. Not in a finite distance, but it'll be there.

  8. Post #168
    Gold Member
    PederPauline's Avatar
    February 2007
    689 Posts
    0.999... = 1 because we don't allow for infinitely small numbers in our math.
    This does not prove anything.

  9. Post #169
    calzoneman's Avatar
    February 2008
    460 Posts
    0.999... = 1 because we don't allow for infinitely small numbers in our math.
    This does not prove anything.
    People have posted mathematically solid evidence for the past 5 pages. Arguing against this is null, the people who posted the evidence didn't make it up, they got it from websites where Mathematicians proved them.

  10. Post #170
    Gold Member
    PederPauline's Avatar
    February 2007
    689 Posts
    People have posted mathematically solid evidence for the past 5 pages. Arguing against this is null, the people who posted the evidence didn't make it up, they got it from websites where Mathematicians proved them.
    I didn't say their evidence was faulty. You can come up with advanced mathematical ways of showing 0.999... = 1, but all they're really showing is that we don't allow for infinitely small numbers in math.

    Edited:

    Using infinity to prove something is on par with dividing by zero. As far as we know, a true zero or a true infinity does not exist in our universe, so ultimately we are going to make up its properties, so of course 0.999... = 1. That's what the made up properties of infinity tells us.

  11. Post #171
    Gold Member
    Glorbo's Avatar
    May 2010
    5,368 Posts
    Middle can be any digit that is infinitely far away from the extremities of the number
    Every single digit is infinitely far away from the end of the number. 1 is the same distance from infinity as 1 million is. There is no "middle" to infinity, because if there would it would not be infinity.
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  12. Post #172
    Gold Member
    ShaunOfTheLive's Avatar
    November 2007
    9,826 Posts
    0.111... = 1/9
    0.222... = 2/9
    0.333... = 3/9
    0.444... = 4/9
    0.555... = 5/9
    0.666... = 6/9
    0.777... = 7/9
    0.888... = 8/9
    0.999... = 9/9 = 1 end of thread
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  13. Post #173
    Gold Member
    Smashmaster's Avatar
    April 2005
    1,506 Posts
    I feel like this thread should have ended at the OP because there was a perfectly reasonable proof right there. But some people are like "Fuck that; I may be a high-school student who failed algebra 1 but I know better than all of the mathematicians in the world!"
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  14. Post #174
    Ligger Nyncher
    Tacooo's Avatar
    August 2009
    7,109 Posts
    Wat.

  15. Post #175
    Every single digit is infinitely far away from the end of the number. 1 is the same distance from infinity as 1 million is. There is no "middle" to infinity, because if there would it would not be infinity.
    What? No shit. I said extremitieS. I.E. Infinity and the first digit.

  16. Post #176
    Gold Member
    Glorbo's Avatar
    May 2010
    5,368 Posts
    What? No shit. I said extremitieS. I.E. Infinity and the first digit.
    A digit that is infinitely far away from the extremities is infinity. So there is no middle.
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  17. Post #177

    September 2007
    398 Posts
    ITT: People in thread do not understand concepts of higher mathematics such as, infinite series, induction and convergence.
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  18. Post #178
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,897 Posts
    I fucking hate this equation bullshit:
    x = 0.999...
    10x = 9.999...
    10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999... (or 10x - 0.999... = 9.999 - 0.999)
    9x = 9
    x = 1


    You have to be retarded to believe that. Seriously? Do you see the flaw?
    One of the biggest flaws: x = 0.999... ! SO WHY ARE YOU SOLVING FOR x?!

    Ok, lets forget that big flaw.. If x = 0.999 step 3 would look like (9.999... = 9.999...) ; when we subtract x (0.999) it will be 9 = 9! GENIUS!

    The other two are true.. Specially the blue one.
    Holy fuck
    what are you
    oh my god
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  19. Post #179
    A digit that is infinitely far away from the extremities is infinity. So there is no middle.
    What? The "middle" of an infinite series is in infinity itself. Different infinities, that's why 2n - n tends to infinity and not 0

  20. Post #180
    "some of those dragon dildo designs are pretty cool"
    EcksDee's Avatar
    February 2007
    8,897 Posts
    No, otherwise it would be 1, not .999...
    I am adamant about this.
    I used to think this once.
    Until I saw the proofs.
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  21. Post #181
    For there to be continuity, don't we need numbers to be infinitely close?
    The fact that numbers are infinitely closely packed in the real line is exactly why you can't pick a number adjacent to another number.

    Edited:

    Definitions for continuity are carefully chosen so that they rely only on finite numbers.
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  22. Post #182
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Isn't this just proving that our ways of thinking are broken rather than making sense?
    If you pour a glass of water into 3 glasses with exactly the same amount in the 3 glasses, it's 1 glass devided in 3. Saying it's 1/3 is fine, but saying it's 33, etc % is wrong. Just because we can't devide 1 into 3 efficiently doesn't mean it's content is 0,9. Assuming that this flaw makes it right to say 0,9 is actually also 1, is just as flawed or even worse.

    Besides, 0,999 is infinitely far away from being 1. Just because infinity isn't a number doesn't mean it's not there. And even if it was a number, it can never become something between 0,999 and 1 unless you make up some new rules.

    But yeah i am probably too dumb for this with my elementary level math.
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  23. Post #183
    0.111... = 1/9
    0.222... = 2/9
    0.333... = 3/9
    0.444... = 4/9
    0.555... = 5/9
    0.666... = 6/9
    0.777... = 7/9
    0.888... = 8/9
    0.999... = 9/9 = 1 end of thread
    watch as people argue that your logic is flawed and that you are stupid
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  24. Post #184
    Well, I don't mean picking a number just like that. I can't say how it looks like or write it, I can only say it's infinitely close to a number. but if that means the difference is 0, then it is the number itself. So doesn't it form an infinitesimal gap?

  25. Post #185
    Well, I don't mean picking a number just like that. I can't say how it looks like or write it, I can only say it's infinitely close to a number. but if that means the difference is 0, then it is the number itself. So doesn't it form an infinitesimal gap?
    I am confused.

  26. Post #186
    Never mind, it's a bad argument.

  27. Post #187
    Terminutter's Avatar
    June 2010
    6,198 Posts
    I fucking hate this equation bullshit:
    x = 0.999...
    10x = 9.999...
    10x - x = 9.999... - 0.999... (or 10x - 0.999... = 9.999 - 0.999)
    9x = 9
    x = 1


    You have to be retarded to believe that. Seriously? Do you see the flaw?
    One of the biggest flaws: x = 0.999... ! SO WHY ARE YOU SOLVING FOR x?!

    Ok, lets forget that big flaw.. If x = 0.999 step 3 would look like (9.999... = 9.999...) ; when we subtract x (0.999) it will be 9 = 9! GENIUS!

    The other two are true.. Specially the blue one.
    Euler is rotating so fast in his grave that I believe we could use it to power Switzerland for the next few decades.
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  28. Post #188
    Gold Member
    Silly Sil's Avatar
    March 2006
    5,009 Posts
    Isn't this just proving that our ways of thinking are broken rather than making sense?
    If you pour a glass of water into 3 glasses with exactly the same amount in the 3 glasses, it's 1 glass devided in 3. Saying it's 1/3 is fine, but saying it's 33, etc % is wrong. Just because we can't devide 1 into 3 efficiently doesn't mean it's content is 0,9. Assuming that this flaw makes it right to say 0,9 is actually also 1, is just as flawed or even worse.

    Besides, 0,999 is infinitely far away from being 1. Just because infinity isn't a number doesn't mean it's not there. And even if it was a number, it can never become something between 0,999 and 1 unless you make up some new rules.

    But yeah i am probably too dumb for this with my elementary level math.
    Nobody here is talking about 0.999 but you. We're talking about 0.9...

    If you pour a glass of water into 3 glasses with exactly the same amount in the 3 glasses it's 1 glass divided in 3. So there is 1/3 in each. 1/3 = 0.3... Multiply it by 3 and you get 0.9... which is everything you had, which is 1.

    1 = 3/3 = 1/3+1/3+1/3 = 0.3...+0.3...+0.3... = 0.3... x 3 = 0.9... These are all equal.
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  29. Post #189
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    watch as people argue that your logic is flawed and that you are stupid
    duuuude its not 1 its smaller than one CANT YOU SEE THE FUCKING 9!
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  30. Post #190
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  31. Post #191
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts

  32. Post #192

  33. Post #193
    Gold Member
    Coridan's Avatar
    April 2006
    1,193 Posts
    I only watched this to fap to the sound of her voice.
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  34. Post #194
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,457 Posts
    My math teacher did so many proofs on this... Can we all just agree .999(Repeating) = 1.

  35. Post #195

    March 2012
    7 Posts
    Middle can be any digit that is infinitely far away from the extremities of the number, the argument stays the same.

    Let's take a semi-line if you prefer. It has a defined start but stretches to infinity. if you place the origin of your referential on infinity, the origin of the line will be located at infinity, but it will still be there, it'll exist. Not in a finite distance, but it'll be there.
    There is no definable 'middle' to an infinite string of numbers, but your second point is interesting. An infinite line is, in every possible way a person might care about, equivalent to a circle, with the north pole representing the point at infinity. So we can define various properties at infinity for 'things' (functions, etc) acting on the real numbers by the way those functions act on circles at the north pole. But this isn't relevant.

    I didn't say their evidence was faulty. You can come up with advanced mathematical ways of showing 0.999... = 1, but all they're really showing is that we don't allow for infinitely small numbers in math.
    No one's sitting around saying 'I won't allow for infinttesimals!'. Their non-existence is a direct consequence of our definition of the real numbers, which is what you happily use everyday without question.

    Well, I don't mean picking a number just like that. I can't say how it looks like or write it, I can only say it's infinitely close to a number. but if that means the difference is 0, then it is the number itself. So doesn't it form an infinitesimal gap?
    Choose two distinct numbers a and b. The difference between them is (a-b)/2. This is non-zero since a and b are distinct. Moreover, the difference is definable as long as they are distinct--it may be very small, but it is definable no matter how close they are together--and 0 if and only if they are in fact the same number.

    So what is the difference between 0.999... and 1?

  36. Post #196
    lord0war's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,812 Posts
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  37. Post #197
    Gold Member
    ShaunOfTheLive's Avatar
    November 2007
    9,826 Posts
    My math teacher did so many proofs on this... Can we all just agree .999(Repeating) = 1.
    nope because apparently people don't know what repeating decimals are, to begin with

  38. Post #198
    Gold Member
    sami-pso's Avatar
    June 2006
    4,759 Posts
    Nobody here is talking about 0.999 but you. We're talking about 0.9...

    If you pour a glass of water into 3 glasses with exactly the same amount in the 3 glasses it's 1 glass divided in 3. So there is 1/3 in each. 1/3 = 0.3... Multiply it by 3 and you get 0.9... which is everything you had, which is 1.

    1 = 3/3 = 1/3+1/3+1/3 = 0.3...+0.3...+0.3... = 0.3... x 3 = 0.9... These are all equal.
    Yes and you lose 0.1 making it impossible for it to be 1 again.
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  39. Post #199
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    Dennab
    February 2006
    22,239 Posts
    My brother told me another way to think about it.

    What is 1 minus 0.9...

    The answer is 0.0...

    That is a fancy way of saying zero. So if 1-0.9... is 0 they must be the same value.
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  40. Post #200
    Gold Member
    ShaunOfTheLive's Avatar
    November 2007
    9,826 Posts
    My brother told me another way to think about it.

    What is 1 minus 0.9...

    The answer is 0.0...

    That is a fancy way of saying zero. So if 1-0.9... is 0 they must be the same value.
    No, you're just going to have the idiots saying that it equals "0.0...1" which makes no sense.
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