1. Post #1
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    Last month, African-American teenager Trayvon Martin was killed by what increasingly appears to be a vigilante “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.” At the time of his death, Martin carried a a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea — his killer, George Zimmerman, armed himself with a 9mm handgun and a concealed weapon permit.

    Yet, even in the wake of this tragedy, Senate Republicans continue to push a reckless effort to force every state to follow the nation’s laxest gun laws:

    Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) and 28 other Senate Republicans on Tuesday introduced a bill that would allow people authorized to carry concealed weapons in their home state to do the same in other states that allow concealed carry, without requiring a federal permit.

    The Respecting States’ Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, S. 2213, is meant to ensure that the Second Amendment rights of people are not infringed upon when they travel between states. But rather than set up a federal permitting process for concealed weapons, the bill would essentially require states with concealed-weapons permits to honor the permits of other states.

    First of all, this bill has absolutely, positively nothing whatsoever to do with the Second Amendment. As Justice Scalia established in his opinion in D.C. v. Heller “the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited,” and laws regulating or even prohibiting concealed carry are entirely consistent with the Second Amendment.

    More importantly, this bill is a terrible idea. As ThinkProgress explained when a similar bill advanced in the House, the bill is strongly backed by the NRA, and it would enable residents of states with shockingly lax gun laws to carry concealed firearms nearly anywhere in the country. Martin’s state of Florida, for example, issued 1,700 concealed carry permits to people with “criminal histories, arrest warrants, domestic violence injunctions and misdemeanor convictions for gun-related crimes.” Indeed, Florida has yet to revoke Zimmerman’s concealed carry permit.

    If Sen. Thune’s bill becomes law, it would mean that Zimmerman would be free to wander nearly any neighborhood in the country, packing a hidden firearm in his waistband.
    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...y-every-state/

    In other news, the Atlantic Ocean is damp.
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  2. Post #2
    I ROLL THE NICKELS
    CodeMonkey3's Avatar
    October 2008
    18,068 Posts
    Good.
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  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    September 2010
    8,080 Posts
    Honestly. The founding fathers wanted people to defend their homes, not these asshats to be able to carry around weapons everywhere.

    Now. I support concealed carry. But it implies that everywhere is like fucking Africa with how much of a threat there is.
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  4. Post #4
    foxcock
    Bletotum's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,874 Posts
    shitty opinionated thread title

    Edited:

    it makes perfect sense to allow someone who can already carry a gun in one state carry it in other states (that have the same gun laws)
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  5. Post #5
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    shitty opinionated thread title
    This bill in particular is a poor idea and it would allow Zimmerman to carry even though he murdered someone. You should read the article.
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  6. Post #6
    Gold Member
    SilentOpp's Avatar
    August 2005
    921 Posts
    This is absolutely stupid to associate this bill with Zimmerman. It's incredibly biased. Talk about jumping on the bandwagon, the same logic took us into war after 9/11.

    You need a permit and a background check to get a state CCW, this legislation is debateably good and covers only your right to travel(not live) through other states. Does anyone understand fucking how broad 'criminal histories, arrest warrants, domestic violence injunctions, and midemeanors for gun-related crimes' is? Florida would never issue a murderer a permit for a concealed handgun, and if he has slipped through the system, then bring your arguments to bear on the police department and the justice system, not a bill that would give people greater freedoms. Especially when you have to take a class and a background check just to get that oppertunity.

    Congratulations, I think you found a source dumber and more biased than Fox News. These guys want to make it illegal for anyone who has ever gotten a criminal speeding ticket on the highway, or not been served correctly a ticket resulting in a warrant, to posses a CCW. And this is just the tip of the crime that would fit into their 'list'.
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  7. Post #7
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    This bill in particular is a poor idea and it would allow Zimmerman to carry even though he murdered someone. You should read the article.
    so this isn't some facade, you're actually just this dumb?
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  8. Post #8
    Ah yes "opinions"
    Jackald's Avatar
    October 2005
    17,004 Posts
    I live in a country where people have to trust trained specialist police teams to defend them, rather than encouraging vigilantism.

    Crazy, I know, but then we have dirty no good communist healthcare too, so what do we know.
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  9. Post #9
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    so this isn't some facade, you're actually just this dumb?
    You can't completely ignore the article, and my point, and just call me dumb and expect you to come out as somehow more intelligent. It just doesn't work that way.
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  10. Post #10
    ExplodingGuy's Avatar
    December 2009
    7,516 Posts
    What does this bill have to do with Zimmerman? Of course, it's dumb to expect unbiased, objective journalism from thinkprogress.
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  11. Post #11
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    This is absolutely stupid to associate this bill with Zimmerman. It's incredibly biased. Talk about jumping on the bandwagon, the same logic took us into war after 9/11.

    You need a permit and a background check to get a state CCW, this legislation is debateably good and covers only your right to travel(not live) through other states.
    Republicans seem to enjoy this 'state rights' position, but why is it a good idea to completely throw that away when it comes to guns?

    They were against Obamacare because it removed healthcare borders, but if you want to carry a gun across state lines, go right ahead.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    You can't completely ignore the article, and my point, and just call me dumb and expect you to come out as somehow more intelligent. It just doesn't work that way.
    you can't post an opinion article from "think progress justice" trying to pass it off as a reputable news source and expect me not to call you dumb.
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  13. Post #13
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    you can't post an opinion article from "think progress justice" trying to pass it off as a reputable news source and expect me not to call you dumb.
    You didn't read the article did you?

    Does your knee hurt from jerking it so hard?
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  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    MR-X's Avatar
    January 2005
    7,385 Posts
    Lol so we're going to generalize all law abiding citizens who carry because one asshole went off the deep end and killed someone.

    That is like generalizing all drivers and banning cars because one drunk driver killed someone.

    Unrelated to the generalizations, this bill is good. Its kinda stupid for someone to carry one CHL for one state and then as soon as they cross borders it automatically be illegal because they don't have that state chl.

    It isn't as easy as going to the DMV and asking "hey can i get my license renewed, or can i get a license for this state" and get a swap. IT takes days, months some people have waited years (rare cases) to go though the CHL process. It is time consuming. So i'm glad to see this in the works because a lot of other states waste time amending and creating law that honors other states chl's so everyone can continue to carry safely and legally.
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  15. Post #15
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    You didn't read the article did you?
    no i read the article, it's just a shame that you think the george zimmerman incident holds any relevance to a nation having uniform firearm regulation statutes
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  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    Tippmann357's Avatar
    July 2007
    1,445 Posts
    What a fucked title.
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  17. Post #17
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    no i read the article, it's just a shame that you think the george zimmerman incident holds any relevance to a nation having uniform firearm regulation statutes
    It's not just Zimmerman. He's not the only case ever of this happening. Americans are violent and they're addicted, in really disturbing ways, to their guns. That is not a good combination.

    The issue is deregulation, Republicans are trying their hardest to make the Second Amendment, which isn't even for self-defence, as lax as possible. First of all, it's a glaring hypocrisy, second of all it's exceptionally dangerous. Especially with the US' crime rates.
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  18. Post #18
    churboi austin
    Trogdon's Avatar
    October 2007
    13,217 Posts
    hey guys, i figure it's not big enough to make a thread about, but there's a petition to try and get an attorney to fight against zimmerman
    http://www.change.org/petitions/pros...e=action_alert

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Cone's Avatar
    August 2011
    19,156 Posts
    Americans are violent and they're addicted, in really disturbing ways, to their guns.
    because everybody who has a gun intends to use it right
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  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    Sector 7's Avatar
    May 2005
    3,173 Posts
    I'm rating you dumb as hard as I can.

    Concealed carry laws have visibly reduced crime rates in states that have adopted them.

    Zimmerman is a murderer - the only travesty of law here is that he was not charged as one. He has absolutely nothing to do with concealed carry legislation.
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  21. Post #21
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    It's not just Zimmerman. He's not the only case ever of this happening. Americans are violent and they're addicted, in really disturbing ways, to their guns. That is not a good combination.

    The issue is deregulation, Republicans are trying their hardest to make the Second Amendment, which isn't even for self-defence, as lax as possible. First of all, it's a glaring hypocrisy, second of all it's exceptionally dangerous. Especially with the US' crime rates.
    >americans are violent and they're addicted to guns

    alright then governor generalization
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  22. Post #22
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    I'm rating you dumb as hard as I can.

    Concealed carry laws have visibly reduced crime rates in states that have adopted them.

    Zimmerman is a murderer - the only travesty of law here is that he was not charged as one. He has absolutely nothing to do with concealed carry legislation.
    Got a source on that?

    and it does, because people like him will be effected positivity by it.

    Edited:

    >americans are violent and they're addicted to guns

    alright then governor generalization
    You have to be a special kind of ignorant to think there's a general support of violence in the US.
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  23. Post #23
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    You have to be a special kind of ignorant to think there's a general support of violence in the US.
    welp i clearly lost this argument
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  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    jimhowl33t's Avatar
    January 2008
    5,596 Posts
    I've heard of people having trouble going from state A to state B with a gun perfectly legal in state A and B, and they got into a lot of bullshit because they had to go through state C which did not like permits valid for state A and B. This makes sense.

    The issue is deregulation, Republicans are trying their hardest to make the Second Amendment, which isn't even for self-defence, as lax as possible. First of all, it's a glaring hypocrisy, second of all it's exceptionally dangerous. Especially with the US' crime rates.
    Because even removing the 2nd amendment altogether, all criminals would just give up their weapons and suddenly become nice, right?
    Giving people the rights and means of defending themselves against criminals is not a bad thing in the slightest.

    OH AND: what Zimmerman did is already a violation of the Stand Your Ground law, since he pulled a weapon first, followed and killed an unarmed man, so he'd be a criminal with or without CCW and 2nd.
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  25. Post #25
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    welp i clearly lost this argument
    It's an obvious typo.

    Look at the US' crime rates, its fucking support for useless wars, obsession with guns, paranoia about people trying to kill them, jesus christ, go outside. As much as you want to think, the US isn't infallible and perfect.
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  26. Post #26
    foxcock
    Bletotum's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,874 Posts
    and it does, because people like him will be effected positivity by it.
    that makes as much sense as banning ice cream because a murderer might eat it
    if someone is a crazy killer, I doubt that someone cares about the law

    gun laws cannot be expected to guard against random crime, and instead must increase personal protection

    dumb/trolling
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  27. Post #27
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    I've heard of people having trouble going from state A to state B with a gun perfectly legal in state A and B, and they got into a lot of bullshit because they had to go through state C which did not like permits valid for state A and B. This makes sense.



    Because even removing the 2nd amendment altogether, all criminals would just give up their weapons and suddenly become nice, right?
    Giving people the rights and means of defending themselves against criminals is not a bad thing in the slightest.

    OH AND: what Zimmerman did is already a violation of the Stand Your Ground law, since he pulled a weapon first, followed and killed an unarmed man, so he'd be a criminal with or without CCW and 2nd.
    Except the 2nd amendment doesn't have anything to do with self-defence.
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  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    SilentOpp's Avatar
    August 2005
    921 Posts
    welp i clearly lost this argument
    What did you expect? This is like the Glaber of the other side.

    There is no support for these useless wars anymore. No one is paranoid about people trying to kill them, and guns are a hobby to some Americans just like cars are to others. You can call it obsession, doesn't make your point any less stupid or invalid.
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  29. Post #29
    Governor Goblin's Avatar
    December 2011
    2,782 Posts
    that makes as much sense as banning ice cream because a murderer might eat it
    if someone is a crazy killer, I doubt that someone cares about the law

    gun laws cannot be expected to guard against random crime, and instead must increase personal protection

    dumb/trolling
    Oh no, that's a perfect analogy, totally. Because ice cream is a common way to kill someone. Lets ignore the method of killing someone and bring up something that has nothing to do with it!

    What is with this gang opinion that ANYONE who has any problem with guns is somehow this massive idiot? FP is a bit too obsessed with guns.

    Edited:

    What did you expect? This is like the Glaber of the other side.
    yeah, I must be glaber if I have any issue with guns, obviously.
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    jimhowl33t's Avatar
    January 2008
    5,596 Posts
    Look at the US' crime rates
    Look at how some of the states with the laxest gun laws (New Hampshire, Vermont etc) have piss low crime rates and California (possibly the one with the strictest laws) is the 35th safest state, out of 50.
       And that means it's bad.   

    Look at how the UK, where you can't carry anything for self-defense other than a rubber spoon somehow has higher rates of muggings, rapes, robberies and such.
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  31. Post #31
    Gold Member

    February 2009
    2,339 Posts
    yeah, I must be glaber if I have any issue with guns, obviously.
    it's not that you have an issue with guns, it's just that you're openly embracing misinformation
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  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    jimhowl33t's Avatar
    January 2008
    5,596 Posts
    Except the 2nd amendment doesn't have anything to do with self-defence.
    Yeah, I guess the right to keep and bear weaponry only has to do with hunting and uhh... fine pottery?
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    SilentOpp's Avatar
    August 2005
    921 Posts
    Oh no, that's a perfect analogy, totally. Because ice cream is a common way to kill someone. Lets ignore the method of killing someone and bring up something that has nothing to do with it!

    What is with this gang opinion that ANYONE who has any problem with guns is somehow this massive idiot? FP is a bit too obsessed with guns.

    Edited:



    yeah, I must be glaber if I have any issue with guns, obviously.
    I totally get it if you have a problems with guns, my girlfriend is just like that, it's normal.

    I understand if you don't like the idea of a CCW and will be willing debate that with you.

    I too do not like that Zimmerman took advantage of his weapon and license.

    But this is one of the dumbest, most biased, and wrong articles I have ever read. It's entirely sensationalist and misleading. That's what you are being called out for. Oh, and you're 'Americans love violence' comment.
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  34. Post #34
    Awesome Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    40,350 Posts
    Look at how some of the states with the laxest gun laws (New Hampshire, Vermont etc) have piss low crime rates and California (possibly the one with the strictest laws) is the 35th safest state, out of 50.
       And that means it's bad.   
    incredibly selective reasoning. South Carolina has a high crime rate and lax gun laws.
    not to mention NH and vermont have little in common with california when it comes to poverty and urban squalor.
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  35. Post #35
    Garb is the dry stuff in the corner of your eyes when you just wake up.
    Garb's Avatar
    May 2010
    2,031 Posts
    Except the 2nd amendment doesn't have anything to do with self-defence.
    HAhaha good one.
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  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    jimhowl33t's Avatar
    January 2008
    5,596 Posts
    incredibly selective reasoning. South Carolina has a high crime rate and lax gun laws.
    not to mention NH and vermont have little in common with california when it comes to poverty and urban squalor.
    My point was, gun laws have very little to do with crime or lack thereof. If a criminal wants to shoot someone in the face, he will find and get a gun regardless of laws telling him not to do so.
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  37. Post #37
    Hello, my name is Penis. Please refer to me as such. I'm totally cool with it.
    SPESSMEHREN's Avatar
    November 2009
    4,821 Posts
    Wow, look, a national tragedy. I hope people have the respect and decency to not inject partisan politics into said tragedy to push an agend-

    oh, too late.
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  38. Post #38
    Facepunch Babysitter
    BANNED USER's Avatar
    July 2009
    12,426 Posts
    There is nothing wrong with this law, the only problem is with the stand your ground law.
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  39. Post #39
    OvB
    Facepunch resident scientist
    OvB's Avatar
    March 2007
    13,191 Posts
    "Senate Republicans Want Citizens To Be Able To Carry A Concealed Weapon In Nearly Every State"

    Change the title to that because this has basically zero to do with Zimmerman other than to sway the article in your favor. Senate Republicans are not arguing that Zimmerman himself should be able to carry in every state like your title implies, rather, they're arguing that normal everyday people that carry should be able to carry legally in every state. (which indeed, would include Zimmerman at this point, but I believe that has more to do with shitty regulation and screening, as well as the horrible injustice keeping him free) therefore it is incredibly bias and quite sensationalist.

    Whether or not you support the subject, your title is shit.
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  40. Post #40
    Gold Member
    Tippmann357's Avatar
    July 2007
    1,445 Posts
    Kennesaw, Georgia has a law where it is mandatory for every house to own a gun. Guess what? It has incredibly low crime rates.

    http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/
    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...7/223955.shtml

    If people were required to carry guns, less people would commit violent crimes. You're not going to shoot someone knowing there are people with guns in the area.
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