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Post #121
uh no they aren't.
you actually have to treat them differently because medically their bodies change.
this is what i'm saying, it's medically stupid to treat pregnant and postpartum women the same.
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And we marines beat the piss out of each other to understand what hand to hand combats like. That is necessary training that is completed by everyone that doesn't single out particular members of the group.
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okay that's great.
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medically and mentally that's all fine and dandy, but when it comes to physical standards we all need to meet a certain standard. The method to getting there is PT, which applies to all.
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yes and uh
that's exactly what this is about.
you know, training medical officers so they can have the best ability to bring postpartum back to physical standard.
that's uh
in the article.
you remember
the article was all like:
physical standards is one thing dude, but please make sure you can also keep up reading comprehension standards because christ allmighty
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And what the program is designed to do is something that they should have been doing on their own. We have pregnant females who PT on their own and recover on their own no problem. Its tending to a perceived weakness that really stems from the woman own initiative. If they want to get back to their unit quick they'll be wise to make sure they stay relatively in shape while in pregnancy. There are already programs in place to tend to the womens needs while in pregnancy, while this becomes redundant and wasteful. What its doing is forcing women to pt instead of relying on their own initiative. If the women were getting out of shape due to their own lack of pt and healthy eating, what does that say about that person?
I have a condition that prevents me from PT'ing, but I still am able to maintain my height and weight standards because I have the initiative to eat healthy and do what forms of exercise I can. My pregnant marines have adjusted their diets and routinely PT and swim to stay in shape, and even though they're not required to stay in height and weight standards while pregnant they all still are while in a full set of cammies (an additional 10 lbs). After they have their child and finish up their month of conleave they are expected to return straight to the PT field like everyone else and participate. They are going to work hard to get back in shape, and they don't expect anything less than what they were doing prior to pregnancy. That's how we do it, and that's how it should be done.
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Well I'm happy to report absolutely no stereotypes about the marines have been disproved over here.
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what?
the military isn't interested in initiative, it just wants healthy soldiers and this program according to the article helps so you still haven't proven why this is exactly wasteful.
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It's easier to look from the outside in. Women dealing with pregnancy in the military have been able to compensate for years without this training. There's already programs for post partum and pregnant women, and they're completely free and voluntarily run by fellow soldiers, sailors, marines and airman who've gone through pregnancy. Physical fitness is a standard in the military and we don't need useless spending to go to a program that's already been established for free in many different ways.
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It's not JUST losing the weight. You don't just pop out a baby human and go on a diet, then back to shooting brown people. First off, what the fuck is going on with the child care? This was happening in Japan, meaning these girls are deployed. Even then, even if it is a simple as you make it out to be, why shouldn't there be aid to post-birth mothers? Because not everyone else gets it?
You can't keep using oversimplification and outright insane comparisons as a way to lower the legitimacy of this programme.
Edited:
Marines are morons, thanks for further reinforcing that point. The fuck does that have to do with anything?
Edited:
"Because the male marines are idiots, lets ignore the female marines and their bodily functions"
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the training isn't fo
fuck it man
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Complaining about useless spending in the military is like complaining that the ocean is too damp.
Edited:
I hate guns and even I know trigger discipline.Sorry, I apologize for everything I said, I didn't know you were such a hardcore bloke.
I googled your name, don't shoot me!
You're pretty scary man
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Edited:
Japan isn't a deployment, pregnant women aren't being sent down range and for that matter deployed.
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You really don't understand how the military works do you, initiative is HUGE in the military.
Its wasteful in that's it's not necessary. Does it help? Maybe. Do we need it? No
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They aren't there on fucking holiday, they're in Japan because it's what the job tells them to do.
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The training is for NCO's so they can better PT their pregnant women so that they have higher rate of success in returning to their unit.
My point is women can and have done that without this program.
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You have yet to prove why it's not needed.
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you mean you don't need it.
others might need it.
the military shouldn't be a breakneck cutthroat human-cattle machine anyway.
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This further aids them.
But lets stop wording this with opinions. Back it up.
Provide us some manner of proof that shows this doesn't help at all.
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There are programs to deal with womens health and mental aspects into play already. This isn't needed.
And what my point was is that we all receive training to get a better understanding of what we may encounter is like. Point being that is all combat oriented, non bias, and focused on better preparing ourselves for the battlefield. We don't just beat the shit out of each other for pure amusement, it serves a purpose.
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I don't see why it matters at all if they're in Japan or not. In a lot of cases you choose your orders, people WANT to come here. Hell, I chose to come here.
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I never said it didn't help, I said that it wasn't needed.
Would giving me a camelback help me out in the field? Yeah it would, but is it needed? No, my canteen from 1987 works just fine.
Edited:
It is, and to get anywhere you need to have initiative. Those who do the bare minimum to get by don't make it far, and it's not uncommon to remain a junior enlisted for ones entire contract because of that.
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why bother training soldiers at all
they should have initiative and train themselves
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You're missing the point. When it comes to your physical well being, the military gives you the tools and you're the one tasked with using them. If you deiced not to, you face the consequences of being placed in a fat body platoon or disciplinary action.
And that's where the marine corps differs from the army, rather than givem a pat on the back and say nice try we penalize the failure. That's more than enough reason to go out and stay in shape, if not you should have never joined in the first place.
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If it helps, why isn't it needed? Unless you got some cold hard facts that state this is not needed, other than "i said so", I don't see how you can claim it's not needed. Putting females straight out of maternity in a generalised training regiment is just reckless, they need specific care.
God fucking forbid the military reaches out, just a bit, to help their soldiers. What about the Suicide Prevention Training in the military? Is that also "initiative"?
This has nothing to do with the bare minimum.
I'm off topic anyway.
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Because you know, being pregnant doesn't transform you into an incapable piece of meat. For a larger part of the pregnancy most people don't have any issues really.
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No he's not missing the fucking point, you're picking and choosing things. I theorise, that perhaps there's some misogyny in this.
Edited:
Most women don't jump out of pregnancy like nothing happened. Not sure what pregnancies you've seen.
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They don't go into PT straight out of maternity, they're given a month after childbirth to relax before they're expected to PT again.
The cold hard fact is that women have been doing this fine without this program, they get all the specific care they need already from a shit ton of other programs they already have put into play.
Suicide prevention training has nothing to do with promotion, physical fitness, or combat readiness. You're confusing preventative training that is mandatory for all with whats needed to get anywhere in the military.
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Reading comprehension much? Obviously the later stages of pregnancy and postpartum have a pretty severe impact. That doesn't stop most women from performing fairly normally during a fairly big stretch of the pregnancy.
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Cold hard proof? Can't you take the word of two service members when it comes to this matter? For goodness sake I work in a hospital haha, and a main facet of my job is talking to pregnant and post partum women.
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that shows how little you know
it's to recover after the normal vaginal tearing and subsequent stitching, or after an incision is made to increase the size of the vagina, rectoceles and plenty other of stuff
not simply 'relaxing'
I didn't think you had an infantry MOS anyway?
Edited:
No because the service itself said it was a good thing
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And you don't understand how pregnancy in the military works, so allow me to give you the lowdown.
When a woman becomes pregnant she is required to inform her command. Upon doing so she is put on a limited duty status where for the duration of her pregnancy and some time after she is undeployable. She is required to enroll in multiple classes to help teach them what to expect and to help them go through the emotions and changes that they will face. While not required by the marine corps, they are expected to continue PT at their own pace and to watch their own diet. After the childbirth they are given one month of convolecent leave to recover from the childbirth and to help arrange whatever changes need to be made to their life style. If they are a single mother they are given the option to 1. stay in active duty and have the child placed in child care 2. put the child up for adoption or send the child to a relative 3. leave the marine corps. If they are married they are to have the spouse take care of the child or place in childcare. Regardless they are required after the 1 month period to return to full duty and come back to work. They are given 6 additional months to get back into weight standards as well as ready their bodies to be back to basic conditioning. They are then fully eligible to be held responsible for their weight and PT scores. If they are not back to weight standards or score below the minimum PT score they are placed into the fat body platoon where they are forced to PT everyday for a week before they can retest, if they fail again they do it for another week up to a total of one month. If they are unable to achieve weight or pt standards, they are administratively separated.
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[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;34857662]an't you take the word of two service members when it comes to this matter?/QUOTE]
Wait who was the second one?
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I'm an aircrewmen on hueys. Pardon my simplification of a complicated matter
Because brass with big shiney collars who look at numbers and listen to SNCO's that want to look good to get promoted said so.
Edited:
InvaderNouga, he's a corpsman.
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Let me put this in simple terms that hopefully you can understand:
Post-pregnancy weight loss is far different than just losing weight in general. If some women can do this on their own, good for them. Some may not know what to do. Some may have had C-Sec, which weaken them for a while, some may have post-birth medical issues. These all come together, which is why it's FAR more preferable to have a specialised process to usher mother soldiers in to bring them up to speed. It's also a lot better than shoving them out into the middle of the field to do male marine things, like punch each other or jerk each other off, or what the fuck ever is included in PT.
You can't call it cold hard fact unless you back it up. Sorry, you just can't.
I'm not categorising anything, I'm speaking as a whole. Why should initiative be pick and choose inside the military? and not mandatory things that help your fellow man? I would argue mental health is as important to fitness and 'combat' readiness as anything else. Not that the military cares, you guys still allow neo-nazi's in your club. But no gay people.
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no because that's anecdotal.
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Is that supposed to be an insult?
Aren't 'numbers' generally considered superior to some bullshit anecdotal evidence?
Edited:
Not to say that your evidence is bullshit because it's yours, but because it's anecdotal and you're not even an NCO whose done this, or the report writer, or a previously pregnant marine
and even then you can't possibly know what every other experience was like, unlike you were the report writer
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they're trying to appeal to our anti-bureaucratic tendencies.
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Me and thisispain also work in the medical field.
As I stated before, there may be a group of women who don't need it, if you state it as a 'cold hard fact', back it the fuck up. Anecdotes my love, do not really work when discrediting a programme.
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What you're not getting is there are already things in effect for things like C-sections, and saying they don't know what to do is not truth. All women are told what they should do by their doctor, OBGYN, command, SNCOs, NCOs, and their support programs.
1. Helping your fellow man in the military is one aspect, but if you don't want to help yourself forcing you to wont do any good. The mental health aspect is handled completely different then physical aspect.
2. There aren't any neo-nazis in the corps. I assume you're poking at the SS bolts being used by the scout snipers, something that you as a civilian take as face value.
3. Gays are allowed in the military, and just like the rest of the country we're having a hard time accepting that.
Edited:
Allow me to get what a pregnant marine has to say about this, they will give you a better understanding from their prospective.
Agree x 2
Useful x 2
Funny x 2
Zing x 1
Winner x 1
Dumb x 1
