1. Post #1
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,876 Posts
    WASHINGTON The Supreme Court said Tuesday investigators don't have to read Miranda rights to inmates during jailhouse interrogations about crimes unrelated to their current incarceration.

    The high court, on a 6-3 vote, overturned a federal appeals court decision throwing out prison inmate Randall Lee Fields' conviction, saying Fields was not in "custody" as defined by Miranda and therefore did not have to have his rights read to him.

    "Imprisonment alone is not enough to create a custodial situation within the meaning of Miranda," Justice Samuel Alito wrote in the court's majority opinion.

    Three justices, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor, dissented and said the court's decision would limit the rights of prisoners.

    "Today, for people already in prison, the court finds it adequate for the police to say: `You are free to terminate this interrogation and return to your cell,'" Ginsburg said in her dissent. "Such a statement is no substitute for one ensuring that an individual is aware of his rights."

    Miranda rights come from a 1966 decision that involved police questioning of Ernesto Miranda in a rape and kidnapping case in Phoenix. It required officers to tell suspects they have the right to remain silent and to have a lawyer represent them, even if they can't afford one.

    Previous court rulings have required Miranda warnings before police interrogations for people who are in custody, which is defined as when a reasonable person would think he cannot end the questioning and leave.

    Fields was serving a 45-day sentence in prison on disorderly conduct charges when a jail guard and sheriff's deputies from Lenawee County, Mich., removed him from his cell and took him to a conference room. The deputies, after telling him several times he was free to leave at any time, then questioned him for seven hours about allegations that he had sexually assaulted a minor. Fields eventually confessed and was charged and convicted of criminal sexual assault.

    Fields was then sentenced to 10 to 15 years in prison but appealed the use of his confession, saying that he was never given his Miranda rights on the sexual assault charges.

    On appeal, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati threw out his confession and conviction, ruling that it is required that police read inmates their Miranda rights anytime they are isolated from the rest of the inmates in situations where they would be likely to incriminate themselves.

    The Supreme Court overturned that ruling.

    "Not all restraints on freedom of movement amount to custody for purposes of Miranda," Alito said.

    Questioning an inmate doesn't bring the "shock" of arrest that free people experience and the coercive pressure that follows, Alito said. There is also no hope for a quick release if the inmate talks to police, like there would be for a free person, and there is also no chance of a lighter sentence or any type of reprisal for not talking because the person is already in prison, Alito said.

    "Thus, service of a term of imprisonment, without more, is not enough to constitute Miranda custody," Alito said.

    The majority looked to the wrong question in making its decision, Ginsburg said.

    "I would ask, as Miranda puts it, whether Fields was subjected to `incommunicado interrogation ... in a police dominated atmosphere,' whether he was placed, against his will, in an inherently stressful situation, and whether his `freedom of action (was) curtailed in any significant way,'" Ginsburg said. "Those should be the key questions, and to each I would answer, `Yes.'"

    The case is Howes v. Fields, 10-680.
    Source
    --

    I know most of you dont really care but, this is big news. You do not have to be granted your rights in prison if you are being questioned about other crimes you have committed. That means, if you dont know your rights.. you dont get them. No lawyers, no pleading the fifth, etc.
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    DudeGuyKT's Avatar
    July 2009
    13,197 Posts
    whaaaat
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  3. Post #3
    Clops with bisousbisous daily <3
    Mr. Smartass's Avatar
    December 2010
    9,188 Posts
    Woah woah
    What the fuck
    What does this solve
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    Squad's Avatar
    March 2009
    3,365 Posts
    They were already arrested? So they all should know their rights?
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  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    DesolateGrun's Avatar
    July 2008
    6,268 Posts
    Yeah when you are arrested you are told your.rights, so now they don't have to repeat it I don't see the issue
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  6. Post #6
    Dennab
    March 2008
    186 Posts
    God damn it. Everyday I'm getting more fearful of my country.
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  7. Post #7
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,876 Posts
    Yeah when you are arrested you are told your.rights, so now they don't have to repeat it I don't see the issue
    Before, you had to be read your rights before any interviewing/interrogations. You did it that way because of the victim not knowing that he has the right to stop talking. (this avoids court cases with "I didnt know that.. ")

    Ex. 1 (from the article)
    Fields was then sentenced to 10 to 15 years in prison but appealed the use of his confession, saying that he was never given his Miranda rights on the sexual assault charges.
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  8. Post #8
    Trans genders are gays with mental dis orders
    Dennab
    January 2012
    3,881 Posts
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Ekalektik_1's Avatar
    September 2008
    6,030 Posts
    Rated dumb because of the content, not you, OP. This is one of the most pointless laws I've ever seen.
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  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Squad's Avatar
    March 2009
    3,365 Posts
    God damn it. Everyday I'm getting more fearful of my country.
    Do you plan on going to prison? I mean really? Just don't do anything illegal and this doesn't apply to you?
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  11. Post #11
    Last or First's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,599 Posts
    Do you plan on going to prison? I mean really? Just don't do anything illegal and this doesn't apply to you?
    this violation of rights only happens to criminals

    so let's just ignore it
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  12. Post #12
    Dennab
    August 2008
    4,435 Posts
    Do you plan on going to prison? I mean really? Just don't do anything illegal and this doesn't apply to you?
    this is probably the most ignorant view on law ever
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  13. Post #13
    Spooter's Avatar
    August 2007
    954 Posts
    Could you change the title to what the article actually is, instead of the stupid attention getter it is now?
    And as DesolateGrun said:
    Yeah when you are arrested you are told your.rights, so now they don't have to repeat it I don't see the issue
    If they're already incarcerated then I don't see a problem. They've heard their rights read, they should know them. As well, they're told they can leave at any time.

    And now let's see how many people read the two bolded portions, nothing else, and proceed to call for the leveling of the Supreme Court.
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  14. Post #14
    Sorry about the downtime, now buy shit.
    CrispexOps's Avatar
    February 2010
    1,588 Posts
    God damn it. Everyday I'm getting more fearful of my country.
    Better take up arms and start popping cops like every fearful American does.
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  15. Post #15
    LSK
    Gold Member
    LSK's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,388 Posts
    Do you plan on going to prison? I mean really? Just don't do anything illegal and this doesn't apply to you?
    That's like saying it was alright for Hitler to kill off Jews, just because it doesn't apply to you. This may be an extreme example but now do you see why that whole "it doesn't apply to me so fuck it" ordeal is so very wrong? It will get to you eventually if you're just going to sit back and shrug it off.
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  16. Post #16
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,876 Posts
    this is probably the most ignorant view on law ever
    But he has a point. It doesnt affect you unless you go to prison. But if you do end up in prison, you better know your rights first.

  17. Post #17

    August 2011
    772 Posts
    Not planning on going to prison anytime soon, don't give a damn.
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  18. Post #18
    Gold Member
    Squad's Avatar
    March 2009
    3,365 Posts
    this is probably the most ignorant view on law ever
    No, the rights of prisoners is important. However, these guys should already know their rights.

    I do agree that it is pointless to do this, it doesn't hurt anything to read them their rights.

    Anyways, out of here since people shit storm so quickly.
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  19. Post #19

    August 2011
    772 Posts
    That's like saying it was alright for Hitler to kill off Jews, just because it doesn't apply to you.
    Mass murder =/= having to repeat your rights to you when they've already done it before.
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  20. Post #20
    LSK
    Gold Member
    LSK's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,388 Posts
    Mass murder =/= having to repeat your rights to you when they've already done it before.
    I edited my post.

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Squad's Avatar
    March 2009
    3,365 Posts
    That's like saying it was alright for Hitler to kill off Jews, just because it doesn't apply to you.
    ... Not even close...

    It is like saying, people who committed a crime had their rights read to them and went through court and made familiar with what was going on and then sent to prison...

    Thus, they should know that they are allowed to have a lawyer, they can remain silent if they want to etc etc...

  22. Post #22
    Spooter's Avatar
    August 2007
    954 Posts
    But he has a point. It doesnt affect you unless you go to prison. But if you do end up in prison, you better know your rights first.
    And you do! The guy in this case who confessed before did! He'd been read the very same Miranda rights when he was put into custody! Why should the cops have to repeat all of his rights every time they want to question him? Unless the person has amnesia I don't think they're liable if they don't.
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  23. Post #23
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,876 Posts
    And you do! The guy in this case who confessed before did! He'd been read the very same Miranda rights when he was put into custody! Why should the cops have to repeat all of his rights every time they want to question him? Unless the person has amnesia I don't think they're liable if they don't.
    If Apple can patent a rectangle with curved corners, inmates will sue the living hell out of departments because they didnt know their rights. Honestly, I would rather have my rights read to me every-time until I request to have them not read anymore just so that I know that I can stop talking.

  24. Post #24
    Last or First's Avatar
    December 2009
    4,599 Posts
    If they're already incarcerated then I don't see a problem. They've heard their rights read, they should know them. As well, they're told they can leave at any time.
    Saying "you can leave at any time" isn't the same as telling them "you can leave at any time, and you have the right to remain silent, without any repercussions for doing so." They may as well be saying "you're free to go at any time. But then we'll interrogate you later. And again. And again. And again."
    And prisoners might assume that they don't have as many rights, since they're in prison, so they need to be reminded that they do still have rights. For instance, they might assume that they aren't necessarily read their Miranda Rights before an interrogation. But that's just silly.
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  25. Post #25
    LSK
    Gold Member
    LSK's Avatar
    June 2006
    2,388 Posts
    ... Not even close...

    It is like saying, people who committed a crime had their rights read to them and went through court and made familiar with what was going on and then sent to prison...

    Thus, they should know that they are allowed to have a lawyer, they can remain silent if they want to etc etc...
    I'm just saying I hate the whole "I don't care if it doesn't involve me" mindset, it's the wrong view to have on things, especially politics.
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  26. Post #26
    Dennab
    March 2008
    186 Posts
    Better take up arms and start popping cops like every fearful American does.
    Ummm, how does this relate to anything?

    I'm not saying this supreme court decision turns America into some dystopian nation, but it is a small step in that general direction.
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  27. Post #27

    August 2011
    772 Posts
    I'm just saying I hate the whole "I don't care if it doesn't involve me" mindset, it's the wrong view to have on things, especially politics.
    And you did so with an analogy that doesn't work. I don't see how we're at fault here.

  28. Post #28
    Sorry about the downtime, now buy shit.
    CrispexOps's Avatar
    February 2010
    1,588 Posts
    Ummm, how does this relate to anything?

    I'm not saying this supreme court decision turns America into some dystopian nation, but it is a small step in that general direction.
    I was poking fun how every decision made leads to people assuming, "They're going after my freedom!"

    I hate to break it to you, but we don't really have "freedom." Our "freedom" comes in the form of doing things only if they're regulated heavily by the government. For example: Firearms, drugs, vehicles, homes, your income, gender, political beliefs, religious beliefs, etc. All if it is documented in some form or another, and all requires the government knowing every single detail of your life. "Freedom" is thrown around far too much. It's a word that gives people a false sense of stability and peace.

    If we're so into freedom, why are we so quick to throw working illegal immigrants out? Don't they deserve our "freedom?" No. Becuase they're undocumented. Everything in America is logged and on the record. That's the way it works. Freedom is a piece of political bullshit that is thrown around to try to get us to get involved in other countries' conflicts, and to control the general population.

    A good example is how people in America still think that Europe is this huge evil place that won't let you read the Bible and won't let you own guns, etc.

    Because that's all "freedom" really is to an American. The right to pray to whatever god you want, own guns, and voice your unwanted opinion.
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  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    Snake7's Avatar
    May 2011
    1,765 Posts
    To people that say stuff like this doesn't effect them because they don't plan on going to prison:

    Who does plan on going to prison? You never know where life is going to take you or people you know, so you should be aware about things like this dealing with the law.

  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    wraithcat's Avatar
    December 2007
    13,054 Posts
    To be honest this isn't a big deal as the miranda rights being told to you is a way to bring a person back to reality to make them realise they do have legal rights.

    If they are already imprisoned they are fully aware of this and the shock isn't the same. As a result they can be expected to still know where they stand.
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  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Deaglez7's Avatar
    March 2007
    486 Posts
    Makes me think of this.

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Xenocidebot's Avatar
    April 2006
    5,075 Posts
    Before, you had to be read your rights before any interviewing/interrogations. You did it that way because of the victim not knowing that he has the right to stop talking. (this avoids court cases with "I didnt know that.. ")
    No, you didn't. I was actually told that this was not the case just semester year in my constitutional law class, so it sounds like it's just being codified now via case law.
    Woah woah
    What the fuck
    What does this solve
    Reading helps.
    The Supreme Court said Tuesday investigators don't have to read Miranda rights to inmates during jailhouse interrogations about crimes unrelated to their current incarceration.
    Which has always been the case. Your fifth amendment rights protect you from self-incrimination in a particular case, not your right not to incriminate others, or shit that doesn't attach to that case. You have a right to silence, though, which is a portion of a Miranda warning, but as the majority of it applies to you, as in, suspect being looked into for X currently, where it is there to protect you from being "compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against" yourself, it's pretty much irrelevant. This is just it hitting the court and people now having indisputable proof that that's how it works.

    If it is about you, the warning just changes. Which was also almost always the case. NBD, really. Why would you need clarification of a bunch of shit that doesn't currently apply to you?
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  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    MR-X's Avatar
    January 2005
    7,385 Posts
    To be honest this isn't a big deal as the miranda rights being told to you is a way to bring a person back to reality to make them realise they do have legal rights.

    If they are already imprisoned they are fully aware of this and the shock isn't the same. As a result they can be expected to still know where they stand.
    Believe it or not, when I worked in corrections a lot of people have little knowledge of how the system works or their own rights. A lot of them just sit in front of a judge and don't listen to anything until the hear their bail.

    I've had people come up to me from the housing unit and ask "can you set my bail so i can go home", "When are you guys going to set my bail (meaning guards)" and the funniest thing I've heard was "Hey, are you a judge?"

    Just a few people, however a lot of them have no grasp or even the slightest interest in their rights.
    A lot of them don't even get involved in their damn cases, only a few stay on the ass of the public defenders.

    Normally when we did interviews for in-jail crimes we told the inmates that they can talk to us if they want, however if they don't want to answer questions they don't have to. A lot of them don't simply because "snitches get stitches" mentality. As for crimes that take place and require a peace officer to do a report (Actual crime) normally they just write up a report and slap the charge on them after all the proper information/investigation is given. They're already incarcerated so it is kinda pointless to say their rights again when an arresting officer already did it, and so did a judge.

  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,732 Posts
    Is it bad that I'm actually fairly impressed Facepunch didn't immediately go into a "Police state" bandwagon at this?
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  35. Post #35
    l l
    lmao
    Dennab
    December 2011
    10,758 Posts
    Do you plan on going to prison? I mean really? Just don't do anything illegal and this doesn't apply to you?
    NOTHING TO HIDE NOTHING TO HIDE


    Awful.

  36. Post #36
    Shiftyze's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,876 Posts
    This is some bullshit. I got arrested once, half the charges I never heard of. Now I'm more aware after thousands of dollars in fees and classes. I got out of the system, I got very lucky. I got my felony dropped. I had no idea what I was doing was a felony, I was only 18 and completely uneducated about the laws. Yes, some stuff is obvious but I had no idea what I did was a felony (Outrunning the police by vehicle, I wen for only a minute then parked, ran, and got away. They were just pissed off they failed to catch me) otherwise I would have never had done that.

    This helps nothing with the abusive power the police have become so use to using. They get in trouble if they don't read your rights.
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  37. Post #37
    Movie quote goes here, because...
    Dennab
    October 2008
    8,076 Posts
    Tell me again why America is considered civilized? Is it because Hollywood?

    Edited:

    This is some bullshit. I got arrested once, half the charges I never heard of. Now I'm more aware after thousands of dollars in fees and classes. I got out of the system, I got very lucky. I got my felony dropped. I had no idea what I was doing was a felony, I was only 18 and completely uneducated about the laws. Yes, some stuff is obvious but I had no idea what I did was a felony (Outrunning the police by vehicle, I wen for only a minute then parked, ran, and got away. They were just pissed off they failed to catch me) otherwise I would have never had done that.

    This helps nothing with the abusive power the police have become so use to using. They get in trouble if they don't read your rights.
    You didn't know that running from cops ordering you to stop is illegal? Christ son! What are you?
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  38. Post #38
    JamesRaynor's Avatar
    May 2011
    393 Posts
    Woah woah
    What the fuck
    What does this solve
    Streamlining the criminal system, because rights are rather inconvenient.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Canuhearme?'s Avatar
    April 2008
    16,732 Posts
    Streamlining the criminal system, because rights are rather inconvenient.
    This just means it's not necessary to read your Miranda Rights every time you take a prisoner in to be questioned, since it's still in effect following the first time the rights were given.

    After re-reading the article again this thread's title is grossly misleading compared to the actual subject matter of the article, is there any way it can be changed?
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  40. Post #40
    Fight until death, shoot until empty.

    November 2009
    15,876 Posts
    This just means it's not necessary to read your Miranda Rights every time you take a prisoner in to be questioned, since it's still in effect following the first time the rights were given.

    After re-reading the article again this thread's title is grossly misleading compared to the actual subject matter of the article, is there any way it can be changed?
    What do you mean? This is big news. Not having your rights read to you before questioning is something that normally ends in a court-case being thrown out.
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