1. Post #3041
    Waluigi Time!
    Ayane-152's Avatar
    July 2011
    5,484 Posts
    Shit like this:



    Is fucking unacceptable.
    I've had a similar experience like that...except I always try to join their team because they are literally and I mean really god-tier.



    I should feel guilty.

    (I was playing against THE Eric Ruth)
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  2. Post #3042
    I'd love it if Valve reversed the damage nerf of stock flamer and gave it to Back Burner. The degreaser should have an effect that reduces on-demand crit to minicrits for 1 to 1.5 seconds after switching to melee/secondary, that way you can't instakill 90% of the enemies that suddenly appear in front of you without making Axetinguisher completely shit.
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  3. Post #3043
    Gold Member
    Lijitsu's Avatar
    September 2009
    7,414 Posts
    uh isn't that what the pyro was designed to do?
    He wasn't designed to instantly kill a class with nearly 0 chance to counter him once he does.

    Axtinguisher - unchanged since released, coming up on 4 years ago now.
    Degreaser is also unchanged since its release.

    Clearly Valve sees the pyro as an assassination class.
    The Axtinguisher is fine. It was fine before the Degreaser was added, because it still took some time to swap weapons and land the blow. This gave non-Heavies a chance to at least do some damage or try and get lucky with a crit, and gave Heavies a chance to fight back. The Degreaser needs a nerf to make the combo less instantly deadly. As it is, if a Pyro comes up behind you, it's basically the same thing as a Spy. Just with even less of a chance to live, at least with a Spy it could lag and not register a backstab.

    If a Heavy let's a Pyro hit him twice with the Axtinguisher then he deserves it, the Heavy should easily mow the Pyro down unless he got ambushed, in which case the Pyro was doing his job properly.
    So your reflexes are perfect as a Heavy, right? The second you take damage when you're busy fighting the rest of the Pyro's team, you immediately turn in that direction with no delay? Well, that's too bad because you'd be dead anyway, you'd undoubtedly have taken damage and whatever the instant 195 damage doesn't take off the afterburn would.

    And besides that, it's not like Pyros don't take corners as tightly as they can. Call it an ambush all you want, if you and a Pyro stumble into each other when rounding a corner, the Pyro will 100% win if he's using a the Degreaser and Axtinguisher, unless he's almost dead and you get a shot off before he can get you. A Scout might get lucky and jump away, but every other class is fucked. This is different from the same situation with a Heavy, because the Heavy moves at the speed of a turtle when revved, which can give you enough time to find another corner.
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  4. Post #3044
    R R E R R R
    01271's Avatar
    October 2009
    4,909 Posts
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  5. Post #3045
    BanthaFodder's Avatar
    May 2011
    5,957 Posts
    OKAY, IDEA...

    THE DEGREASER

    + 65% Faster weapon switch time
    - 10% Burn damage penalty
    - All critical hits are downgraded to mini-crits


    THE AXTINGUISHER

    + 100% critical hit vs burning players
    - 50% Damage vs non-burning players
    - No critical hits vs non-burning players


    NOTE: Basically, Axtinguisher is the same, but Degreaser gets a slight damage buff at the cost of crits being downgraded to mini-crits. This way, the Axtinguisher is still useful while not being cruise control for Pyros. Some will hate this. Which is GOOD. It will encourage Pyros to use something other than Puff N' Sting, meaning more Pybros using the Homewrecker.

    Edited:

    where's the cancer rating...
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  6. Post #3046
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    April 2010
    14,106 Posts

    This thing right here.They are pain in a life of Saharan Spy. You can't stab them because that noise. You can't gun them because you will lose your disguse. You can't ignore them because they will shoot you. Also most of Razorback Sniper are seen with

    and
    If they wear Gibus and Razorback, I usually stab them anyway, because most of them don't notice.

    Edited:

    OKAY, IDEA...

    THE DEGREASER

    + 65% Faster weapon switch time
    - 10% Burn damage penalty
    - All critical hits are downgraded to mini-crits


    THE AXTINGUISHER

    + 100% critical hit vs burning players
    - 50% Damage vs non-burning players
    - No critical hits vs non-burning players
    Let me try:
    Degreaser stays unchaged.

    Axtinguisher:
    + 100% critical hit vs burning players
    - 50% Damage vs non-burning players
    - unaffected by weapon switch speed stats
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  7. Post #3047
    Tygrys's Avatar
    June 2009
    421 Posts
    Oh wow, how did I forget about the 'Fuck how hitboxes work' bow.
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  8. Post #3048
    slapdown3's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,486 Posts
    OKAY, IDEA...

    THE DEGREASER

    + 65% Faster weapon switch time
    - 10% Burn damage penalty
    - All critical hits are downgraded to mini-crits


    THE AXTINGUISHER

    + 100% critical hit vs burning players
    - 50% Damage vs non-burning players
    - No critical hits vs non-burning players


    NOTE: Basically, Axtinguisher is the same, but Degreaser gets a slight damage buff at the cost of crits being downgraded to mini-crits. This way, the Axtinguisher is still useful while not being cruise control for Pyros. Some will hate this. Which is GOOD. It will encourage Pyros to use something other than Puff N' Sting, meaning more Pybros using the Homewrecker.
    Then people will just complain that it takes two hits to die just like the heavy.
    The problem is when the weapons are used together, just making so all weapons you use with it get worse is not the way to go about it. I'm dead serious when I say "The pyro is doing his job perfectly" because if you're dead he did.

    Editing this in, I don't main puff'n sting pyro and not because it feels cheap or is "easy", its just that's not how I play the game, I'm a defensive pyro and I wait for you to come to me, not the other way around.
    I can incorporate most of my time into getting kills and playing offensive pyro but I don't like to, I thoroughly enjoy helping my team. I just disagree with thinking that my flamethrower shouldn't be as strong if not stronger than any of the other eight classes main weapons.
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  9. Post #3049
    babycake's Avatar
    January 2012
    199 Posts
    Am I the only one who thinks that the flaregun causing crits on burning players instead of minicrits was a bit overkill?
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  10. Post #3050
    BanthaFodder's Avatar
    May 2011
    5,957 Posts
    Am I the only one who thinks that the flaregun causing crits on burning players instead of minicrits was a bit overkill?
    Agreed.
       as in, you are the only one.   
       kinda like Tigger.   
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  11. Post #3051
    ulvemann43's Avatar
    February 2009
    581 Posts
    Then people will just complain that it takes two hits to die just like the heavy.
    The problem is when the weapons are used together, just making so all weapons you use with it get worse is not the way to go about it. I'm dead serious when I say "The pyro is doing his job perfectly" because if you're dead he did.

    Editing this in, I don't main puff'n sting pyro and not because it feels cheap or is "easy", its just that's not how I play the game, I'm a defensive pyro and I wait for you to come to me, not the other way around.
    I can incorporate most of my time into getting kills and playing offensive pyro but I don't like to, I thoroughly enjoy helping my team. I just disagree with thinking that my flamethrower shouldn't be as strong if not stronger than any of the other eight classes main weapons.
    it's silly how facepunch of all people complain about puff and sting. sure it is extremely annoying, but then again so is getting killed by a sniper. if not more a sydney sleeper sniper. but every loadout has a counter. puff and sting gets countered easily by most setups. sydney sleeper snipers get countered by regular snipers or machina snipers. don't missunderstand me, i find it insanely annoying to get killed by a sniper or a puff and sting pyro. but i don't go about complaining about it. i was puff and sting too myself once, but i changed for a loadout more suitable for helping engineers on my team as well as keeping a strong offensive. but i have noticed when playing soldier that puff and sting pyros have become more usual. as well they are easy to take out if they don't pay attention. which is surprisingly usual i would say. and as has been pointed out time after time after time here, whatever a pyro does, people will insult him. after a while it gets stupid when the 10th [insert class here] is complaining at me for [insert pyro tactic here], it gets silly.
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  12. Post #3052
    Gold Member
    The Calzone's Avatar
    February 2011
    7,357 Posts
    OKAY, IDEA...

    THE DEGREASER

    + 65% Faster weapon switch time
    - 10% Burn damage penalty
    - All critical hits are downgraded to mini-crits


    THE AXTINGUISHER

    + 100% critical hit vs burning players
    - 50% Damage vs non-burning players
    - No critical hits vs non-burning players


    NOTE: Basically, Axtinguisher is the same, but Degreaser gets a slight damage buff at the cost of crits being downgraded to mini-crits. This way, the Axtinguisher is still useful while not being cruise control for Pyros. Some will hate this. Which is GOOD. It will encourage Pyros to use something other than Puff N' Sting, meaning more Pybros using the Homewrecker.

    Edited:



    where's the cancer rating...
    I like this idea. The Axtinguisher and the Degreaser are well-balanced separately, problems don't arise until they're put together. Giving the Degreaser a reward-reducing downside would be the best option, though honestly I don't think the Flare Gun deserves the nerf since the switch speed doesn't really affect the way the Flare Gun gets its reward crits.

    Still, I'm in full support of this idea. Something really does need to be done about the combo (And specifically only the combo of the axtinguisher and the degreaser, I feel the need to clarify. When the topic comes up the first thing users of the combo will do is bring up reasons both weapons separately are balanced, which they are. It is their specific combination that is overpowered.).
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  13. Post #3053
    Eriorguez's Avatar
    May 2011
    2,476 Posts
    If a Pyro gets close to you without you noticing, you are meant to die. Pyros are supposed to lurk behind corners, and be the kings of melee range. But everybody complains about it, for some reason you aren't supposed to die fast after getting a flamethrower to the face.

    Things that annoy me: People complaining about Pyros killing them fast at close ranges. The Degreaser is meant to be a combo weapon focusing on the crits Pyros can get, at the cost of lingering damage. Needs a large direct damage penalty and shorter afterburn, so you HAVE to rely on your secondary and Melee.

    A Pyro running at you with a degreaser on open ground is going to be ripped to shreds by bullets. Still, Degreaser Puff-n-sting is not "skill", it is easy mode. It needs larger drawbacks than just ones meant to stop the Axtinguisher, which, in my experience, is nowhere near of a problem as it is made to be. A Pyro killing you fast at close range IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, yet everybody has been complaining about it since 2007. Because people like to complaing.

    I don't even use DG+AX, Backburner/Detonator/Backscratcher master race.
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  14. Post #3054
    Tygrys's Avatar
    June 2009
    421 Posts
    it's silly how facepunch of all people complain about puff and sting. sure it is extremely annoying, but then again so is getting killed by a sniper. if not more a sydney sleeper sniper. but every loadout has a counter. puff and sting gets countered easily by most setups. sydney sleeper snipers get countered by regular snipers or machina snipers. don't missunderstand me, i find it insanely annoying to get killed by a sniper or a puff and sting pyro. but i don't go about complaining about it. i was puff and sting too myself once, but i changed for a loadout more suitable for helping engineers on my team as well as keeping a strong offensive. but i have noticed when playing soldier that puff and sting pyros have become more usual. as well they are easy to take out if they don't pay attention. which is surprisingly usual i would say. and as has been pointed out time after time after time here, whatever a pyro does, people will insult him. after a while it gets stupid when the 10th [insert class here] is complaining at me for [insert pyro tactic here], it gets silly.
    Except in the case of puff 'n sting the people who 'complain' are people who mainly play Pyro like myself (at least from what I've gathered).
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  15. Post #3055
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    April 2010
    14,106 Posts
    If a Pyro gets close to you without you noticing, you are meant to die. Pyros are supposed to lurk behind corners, and be the kings of melee range. But everybody complains about it, for some reason you aren't supposed to die fast after getting a flamethrower to the face.

    Things that annoy me: People complaining about Pyros killing them fast at close ranges.
    Okay, so, this happened to me today:
    I was Demoknight on dustbowl, last stage, last control point. I charged (Chargin' Targe) onto the control point where a Scout was standing, a Pyro behind him, the Scout walked out of my way and the Pyro came step closer. Within miliseconds, I was bruning and had an axe in my face. I had no time to react.
    Now YOU tell ME that Pyro was doing it right.
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  16. Post #3056
    Eriorguez's Avatar
    May 2011
    2,476 Posts
    You charged at a Pyro.
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  17. Post #3057
    BanthaFodder's Avatar
    May 2011
    5,957 Posts
    If a Pyro gets close to you without you noticing, you are meant to die.
    "If a class designed to kill people from a short range kills you at a short range, it's your own fault."
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  18. Post #3058
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    April 2010
    14,106 Posts
    You charged at a Pyro.
    I charged at a Scout, the pyro suddenly stepped up and killed me withing miliseconds, not giving me a chance to even react. That just is not right.
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  19. Post #3059
    Justnobody's Avatar
    August 2011
    2,035 Posts
    I crafted my untradable fez/rambo hair and got a pip boy, which is cool since i've been a lot of playing a lot of fallout

    fallout new vegas

    which i got with the genuine pip boy

    ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffffffff
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  20. Post #3060
    slapdown3's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,486 Posts
    I charged at a Scout, the pyro suddenly stepped up and killed me withing miliseconds, not giving me a chance to even react. That just is not right.
    What melee were you using? Why didn't you cancel the charge earlier if you were using a primary? Were you defending or attacking? Why didn't you assume that it might be a bad idea to get within scattergun range? Perhaps you were unlucky? or do you always chase after scouts that have people trailing behind them?
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  21. Post #3061
    BanthaFodder's Avatar
    May 2011
    5,957 Posts
    I crafted my untradable fez/rambo hair
    Pardon my macro, but...


    (User was banned for this post ("Image Macro" - Seiteki))
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  22. Post #3062
    babycake's Avatar
    January 2012
    199 Posts
    Agreed.
       as in, you are the only one.   
       kinda like Tigger.   
    ;-;
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  23. Post #3063
    Petachepas's Avatar
    April 2011
    2,458 Posts
    I charged at a Scout, the pyro suddenly stepped up and killed me withing miliseconds, not giving me a chance to even react. That just is not right.
    One day, I was standing still. And a random critic grenade teared me into pieces. That just is not right

    If you didnīt saw the pyro... he did his job well "ambushing" you (even if you were the one that went there): I mean, iīm sure you even thougth that scout was a easy victim, and the surprise pissed you off. Almost 90% sure
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  24. Post #3064
    unrezt's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,031 Posts
    Really, what is all that different between the demoknight and puff and sting?

    Both give crits. Both can instakill most classes. Both dominate in close quarters, and the demoknight doesn't even have to work to get there.
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  25. Post #3065
    Gold Member
    Fillmore's Avatar
    June 2010
    1,267 Posts
    Really, what is all that different between the demoknight and puff and sting?

    Both give crits. Both can instakill most classes. Both dominate in close quarters, and the demoknight doesn't even have to work to get there.
    Probably it's the "shield charge needs to recharge" thing. Imagine a Demoknight who can just pull out crits out of his black ass everytime he feels like it.
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  26. Post #3066
    slapdown3's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,486 Posts
    One day, I was standing still. And a random critic grenade teared me into pieces. That just is not right

    If you didnīt saw the pyro... he did his job well "ambushing" you (even if you were the one that went there): I mean, iīm sure you even thougth that scout was a easy victim, and the surprise pissed you off. Almost 90% sure
    Oh god, that hurts my brain to read.
    Another thing that annoys me, when someone blames me for something I couldn't really help out with like stopping that scout or stopping that other pyro.

    Probably it's the "shield charge needs to recharge" thing. Imagine a Demoknight who can just pull out crits out of his black ass everytime he feels like it.
    Degreaser+axet is 1v1, you don't really get the chance to kill more than one person unless they're terrible

    Why can't the pyro have a combat niche? Why does the pyro have to be confined to one role?
    All the other classes can pretty much specialize in any scenario given they have the right loadout, why can't the pyro dominate in something? He was designed as a close range combat specialist and yet everyone else tries to decide what they want him to be good at, (which is usually wanting him to be bad.) seriously, every other class has that ONE specific role they are good at, but the pyro just gets kicked around when he does GOOD at his.
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  27. Post #3067
    Rawbutbull's Avatar
    May 2011
    274 Posts
    Really, what is all that different between the demoknight and puff and sting?

    Both give crits. Both can instakill most classes. Both dominate in close quarters, and the demoknight doesn't even have to work to get there.
    Demoknights can't airblast people up to corners and get unfair kills. And after landing 1 crit you have to wait 15 seconds for a new one. Pyro gets it constantly with the Axethinguisher.
    Unless you're reffering to the Splendid Screen + Persian Persuader loadout. I wouldn't even consider it as a "Demoknight".
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  28. Post #3068
    How about we remove the Degreasers Airblast, or atleast remove it's ability to knock back PLAYERS.

    That way you can still quick-switch-(actual-skill) projectiles coming towards you, but not fuck up players with the Reserve Flare-Stinguisher.
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  29. Post #3069
    Gold Member
    The Calzone's Avatar
    February 2011
    7,357 Posts
    How about we remove the Degreasers Airblast, or atleast remove it's ability to knock back PLAYERS.

    That way you can still quick-switch-(actual-skill) projectiles coming towards you, but not fuck up players with the Reserve Flare-Stinguisher.
    how about that doesn't solve the problem because the Flare-Stinguisher is the problem
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  30. Post #3070
    You can still fuck them up, but the desoriantation is completely fucking overkill, and I MAIN PYRO.

    Edited:

    how about that doesn't solve the problem because the Flare-Stinguisher is the problem
    No? Well, the Flare's crits are, but the Axtinguisher actually is fair to an extent. The pyro found you, and you didn't notice. Without airblast, he can't disorient you to shit.

    And adding on that:

    Axtinguisher
    -100% Critical Hits Vs. Non burning players.
    +100% Critical Hits Vs. Burning players who have been on fire for 3 seconds.
    -50% Damage Vs. Non burning players.

    So you atleast have a chance.
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  31. Post #3071
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    6,317 Posts
    Shit like this:



    Is fucking unacceptable.
    friends playing together in a team-oriented game

    how dare they
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  32. Post #3072
    unrezt's Avatar
    August 2009
    1,031 Posts
    +100% Critical Hits Vs. Burning players who have been on fire for 3 seconds.
    So then people can return to bitching about "W+M1"?
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  33. Post #3073
    OZZY INTENSIFIES
    GastricTank's Avatar
    August 2009
    8,515 Posts
    I've been seeing some more Degreaser+Axetinguisher hate again on here.

    I necessarily don't like how people think it's balanced and fair because "You can simply just not get in their flamethrower range, boom, countered." That's like saying "Never get in a Sniper's line of sight, or never get caught when you're a Spy". It's bound to happen eventually, there is nothing you can do about out-of-the-blue occurrence.

    If he is actually ambushing, good for him, as the Pyro is doing his job. Although, as stated before, he has changed into a psudo-Spy for taking out key targets in a seconds time. But if you simply bump into the Pyro head on without warning, you should at least have a chance to fight back, although this usually isn't the case, as the reaction time is so limited. During the time you are being puffed in the air, you have a split second to assess the situation, turn if needed, and adjust your aim, and shoot, and pray that the Pyro has low enough HP that you'll kill him in 1 or 2 shots, provided you actually hit him, as you probably won't get any more in. Not exactly sporting, it's too much to fight against 1 on 1.

    As for W+M1'ing, there really isn't anything to complain about. It at least gives you a fighting chance (more than a split seconds time, without being immobilized) against the Pyro, and is often out-maneuvered.

    At least charging Demomen have to re-charge their insta-crit abilities, even if there are some bugs in the system. And Dr. Enforcicle Spies are no more than pests running around picking up all the ammo boxes.
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  34. Post #3074
    slapdown3's Avatar
    July 2010
    1,486 Posts
    Axtinguisher
    -100% Critical Hits Vs. Non burning players.
    +100% Critical Hits Vs. Burning players who have been on fire for 3 seconds.
    -50% Damage Vs. Non burning players.

    So you atleast have a chance.
    Those are some pretty good stats
    Here I have an idea too

    The Axtinguisher
    Shit
    Stats
    All
    The
    Way

    There, since its shit no one will ever play pyro because it takes 3 seconds to kill someone with the flamethrower anyways
    Whats the point of the degreasers switch speed if they don't need to switch for three seconds anyways? They are just going to use the backburner and kill you in 2.98 seconds compared to 2.99.
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  35. Post #3075
    Gold Member
    Hell-met's Avatar
    April 2009
    6,317 Posts
    axtinguisher by itself is fine. The standard switch time is long enough to get blasted to bits in before you land a hit.

    the degreaser is the one to blame. A good way to understand why the degreaser is unbalanced is to think of it this way : what if all classes had a primary unlock that did the same thing? A scattergun, rocketlauncher, minigun, grenadelauncher, shotgun, syringun, sniper or revolver that have +65% switch time at the cost of -5% damage.

    It would be downright broken and overpowered on literally every single character. But since it's for pyro, apparentely it's okay.
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  36. Post #3076
    Eriorguez's Avatar
    May 2011
    2,476 Posts
    The Degreaser needs EXTENSIVE damage nerf, to the point that it wouldn't be a viable way as a standalone weapon, its only power being combos, AND shorter afterburn duration, so you need to act fast. Maybe even have its afterburn not damage enemies, just light them on fire.

    But then I dunno how the Gas Jockey set will behave...

    Would moving the bullet vulnerability to it from the set would help?
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  37. Post #3077
    OZZY INTENSIFIES
    GastricTank's Avatar
    August 2009
    8,515 Posts
    Ah, thinking up fixed stats for the Degreaser and/or Axetinguisher is really difficult.

    Maybe the Degreaser could de-buff crit boosts on the Pyro's other weapons?

    This would force those who wish to "sting" to use the other, much more forgiving Flamethrowers.
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  38. Post #3078
    AlphaAGENT's Avatar
    March 2011
    2,117 Posts
    Probably it's the "shield charge needs to recharge" thing. Imagine a Demoknight who can just pull out crits out of his black ass everytime he feels like it.

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  39. Post #3079
    Bazkip's Avatar
    July 2011
    3,274 Posts
    Can we all just unanimously agree that it's overpowered and that we hate and and move on?
    I'm starting to get tired of this thread being only about the Degreaser and Axtinguisher
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  40. Post #3080
    friends playing together in a team-oriented game

    how dare they
    It would be more fun for everyone involved if they split themselves evenly between the teams. I'm not objecting to them having fun, I'm objecting to them having fun at the expense of everyone else on the server, including the other people on blue.
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