1. Post #1
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    This thread has probably been done before, but I've never seen one so here goes nothing.

    Nostradamus was considered by some to have physic visions. Most others call him a fraud that was simply vague with his predictions. Me? I like to consider him an extremely talented person who simply found a way to predict the future based on past events or maybe even the stars. He studied astrology and other "occult" sciences. The way I see it, if you don't believe in the Nostradamus Effect, you are in denial. Sure, some of Nostradamus' predictions never came true. But does this mean that the ones that did come true are just coincidence? I believe not. Here are some of the most famous predictions Nostradamus made:

    1. "From the enslaved populace, songs,
    Chants and demands
    While princes and lords are held captive in prisons.
    These will in the future by headless idiots
    Be received as divine prayers" - This quote is a reference to the French Revolution.

    2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
    Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
    while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb",
    The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - This quote references 9/11.

    3. Out of the deepest part of the west of Europe,
    From poor people a young child shall be born,
    Who with his tongue shall seduce many people,
    His fame shall increase in the Eastern Kingdom.

    He shall come to tyrannize the land.
    He shall raise up a hatred that had long been dormant.
    The child of Germany observes no law.
    Cries, and tears, fire, blood, and battle.

    A captain of Germany shall come to yield himself by false hope,
    So that his revolt shall cause great bloodshed.
    Beasts wild with hunger will cross the rivers
    The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.

    Near the Rhine from the Austrian mountains
    Will be born a great man of the people, come too late.
    A man who will defend Poland and Hungary
    And whose fate will never be certain. - This text is a reference to Hitler and World War 2.

    So, what are your views on this? I realize there are more predictions, but I feel these are the best. Also, if some of these quotes are wrong, let me know and I'll change them.

  2. Post #2
    I love Scandinavians and Ducks
    Thechuz1337's Avatar
    August 2007
    4,145 Posts
    Whilst it does seem impressivly similair to WW2, I'd still place it as a coincidence due to how things can be interpreted into different meanings.

  3. Post #3
    Gold Member
    Yumyumbublegum's Avatar
    January 2009
    7,714 Posts
    His predictions are very vague, and with ~500 years to apply his predictions to major events a handful of them are going to be applicable.

  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    Those predictions are fucking stupid. Not only is the second one, the one attributed to 9/11, fake, but it was crafted by a university student to show how easy it is to make something sound like a prophecy of something important using abstract imagery.

    Edited:

    And Hitler was born 300 kilometers from the Rhine, in a mountain less region of Austria, but okay!

  5. Post #5
    CabooseRvB's Avatar
    September 2009
    12,098 Posts
    Alot of them are vague and they could have fit into any other figure in his own time.

  6. Post #6
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    Those predictions are fucking stupid. Not only is the second one, the one attributed to 9/11, fake, but it was crafted by a university student to show how easy it is to make something sound like a prophecy of something important using abstract imagery.

    Edited:

    And Hitler was born 300 kilometers from the Rhine, in a mountain less region of Austria, but okay!
    Do you have any proof as to how the 9/11 prediction is fake? If it's so fake, then why is it featured on documentaries and such? I don't think national television stations like National Geographic, Discovery, etc. would mention something like that if it wasn't genuine. On top of all that, I think we can both agree that even if the mentioned prediction wasn't genuine, there was some sort of prediction about 9/11 Nostradamus made.

    On another note, you failed to read the rest of the prediction about Hitler and World War 2. Sure, some of it is bullshit, but it doesn't mean the rest of it is.

    Edited:

    His predictions are very vague, and with ~500 years to apply his predictions to major events a handful of them are going to be applicable.
    His predictions are vague, I'll admit that. But with this being said, why did so many of them come true? I mean, it would be one thing if only two or three actually happened. But it's another thing to have several of them happen.

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    Do you have any proof as to how the 9/11 prediction is fake? If it's so fake, then why is it featured on documentaries and such? I don't think national television stations like National Geographic, Discovery, etc. would mention something like that if it wasn't genuine. On top of all that, I think we can both agree that even if the mentioned prediction wasn't genuine, there was some sort of prediction about 9/11 Nostradamus made.

    On another note, you failed to read the rest of the prediction about Hitler and World War 2. Sure, some of it is bullshit, but it doesn't mean the rest of it is.

    Edited:



    His predictions are vague, I'll admit that. But with this being said, why did so many of them come true? I mean, it would be one thing if only two or three actually happened. But it's another thing to have several of them happen.
    Is this a joke?

    Edited:

    Explain to me how "two brothers" and "city of god" sounds even remotely like 9/11. Tons of other major cities had terrorist attacks, or were burning for one reason or another. There's a lot of symbolism in two brothers. And I'm pretty sure the dude was right, that prediction wasn't even made by Nostradamus.

  8. Post #8
    bull3tmagn3t's Avatar
    August 2008
    1,453 Posts
    New York is definitely not the City of God, but I think the Hitler one seems plausible.
    Uhm, but why does he have to talk in riddles, can't he just say what he saw or whatever??

  9. Post #9
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    Is this a joke?

    Edited:

    Explain to me how "two brothers" and "city of god" sounds even remotely like 9/11. Tons of other major cities had terrorist attacks, or were burning for one reason or another. There's a lot of symbolism in two brothers. And I'm pretty sure the dude was right, that prediction wasn't even made by Nostradamus.
    Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.
    Allow me to give five reasons;
    1) People blatantly buy into things if it's on the Discovery Channel (just like with the History Channel, it's about science so it must be true!), so making those shows to get advertising funds works. People will watch it.

    2) Because it's still part of history, he was regarded by a group as a prophet, some people find it interesting. Doesn't mean it's right.

    3) Adding on to 1, 9/11 just happened 10 years ago. America is still bleeding about it and will be for many, many years to come. If there's any connection to it, some type of divine symbolism, there will always be a group to watch it.

    4) Just because it's on TV doesn't mean it's real (see: around 90% of Fox News reports).

    5) None of those shows say he is a prophet. They present the case made by a group of people, give supporting evidence for both sides of the argument, explain the phenomenon and allow the viewer to decide.

  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    Chrille's Avatar
    August 2005
    5,408 Posts
    Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.
    I guess that since the History Channel has done several documentaries on aliens building the pyramids, it must be true.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp

  12. Post #12
    black people
    Soldier32's Avatar
    April 2008
    3,917 Posts
    Any of those predictions can apply to anything. It's just the history and discovery channel with their stupid conspiracy shows that apply his predictions to recent events and only recent events.

  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, (Ooh! Thunder! Because that doesn't happen often, right?! There's no such thing as volcanoes. Or gas pipe explosions. Or Earthquakes. Or thunderstorms.)

    Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, (Oh my gods! 1 and 2 World Trade were the twin towers! This must be about them!)

    while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" (Okay, this one is close, but this can be said about a lot of things. Like, for example, the fall of the Soviet Union resulting in the creation of the Russian Federation. Or anything else were the country survives but in a radically different state.)

    The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" (Err. No. Lots of big cities burned, and there have been much, much bigger wars in the time between Nostradamus and the 9/11 attacks. Or even World War II and the attacks...like Korea and Vietnam, and that's just ones the US was actively involved in.)

  14. Post #14
    Gold Member
    rosthouse's Avatar
    November 2007
    6,610 Posts
    No. It's just a simple question of probability (actually, quite a complicated question of probability). Given enough time and events, something that sounds like what Nostradamus said can happen.

    And his predictions are so vague, you can adapt them to a lot of things.

  15. Post #15
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    No. It's just a simple question of probability (actually, quite a complicated question of probability). Given enough time and events, something that sounds like what Nostradamus said can happen.

    And his predictions are so vague, you can adapt them to a lot of things.
    So what you're saying is that he used past events to predict future events? If this is what you mean, then that's better than most of the people here saying that he didn't predict anything.

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    So what you're saying is that he used past events to predict future events? If this is what you mean, then that's better than most of the people here saying that he didn't predict anything.
    We're not saying he didn't predict anything. We're just not saying he predicted specific events down to days (I don't mean to speak for everyone, and I don't, but I'm guessing this is so). I predict some time in the future, a volcano will erupt. Someone will die of the flu. I can make these assumptions because they've happened before, I have data to work with. Cities have burned down in the past. Wars have been fought. It's not hard to say they'll happen again in the future.

  17. Post #17
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, (Ooh! Thunder! Because that doesn't happen often, right?! There's no such thing as volcanoes. Or gas pipe explosions. Or Earthquakes. Or thunderstorms.)

    Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, (Oh my gods! 1 and 2 World Trade were the twin towers! This must be about them!)

    while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" (Okay, this one is close, but this can be said about a lot of things. Like, for example, the fall of the Soviet Union resulting in the creation of the Russian Federation. Or anything else were the country survives but in a radically different state.)

    The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" (Err. No. Lots of big cities burned, and there have been much, much bigger wars in the time between Nostradamus and the 9/11 attacks. Or even World War II and the attacks...like Korea and Vietnam, and that's just ones the US was actively involved in.)
    Yes, but when you put all of them in one prediction, then there is really only one answer - 9/11. You're acting like these are all separate predictions. And if you don't mean this, explain to me what event in history between the time of Nostradamus and 9/11 fits that exact prediction. Do this, and I will consider dropping the whole 9/11 thing.

    Edited:

    I guess that since the History Channel has done several documentaries on aliens building the pyramids, it must be true.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp
    No, you're taking this to a much more extreme level. I never said that the History channel is saying the Nostradamus Effect is true. But when they give evidence to support it, they generally get actual evidence (like an artifact from back in his days) instead of just looking shit up on the internet and reading books from unreliable sources.

  18. Post #18
    CoolKingKaso's Avatar
    March 2010
    5,091 Posts
    His predictions are so broad and vague to the point they can be referred to different situations.

    The 9/11 prediction is the least accurate one out of the three.

  19. Post #19
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    Yes, but when you put all of them in one prediction, then there is really only one answer - 9/11. You're acting like these are all separate predictions. And if you don't mean this, explain to me what event in history between the time of Nostradamus and 9/11 fits that exact prediction. Do this, and I will consider dropping the whole 9/11 thing.
    Because, by my definition, Charleston is the City of God, the explosions of Civil-War-Era artillery is great thunder, the political ramifications of the outbreak of the war bring the US down from its pedestal in the world view count as a great leader succumbing, and I think the Napoleonic Wars and the Opium Wars kinda round out the first two big wars.

    See how things change with definition? Nostradamus was born in 1503. The world completely changes. Context is lost.

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    cricket50's Avatar
    June 2006
    1,011 Posts
    More precisely, its attribution to Nostradamus is a hoax. The passage was lifted from a Web page (long since deleted from the server that originally hosted it) containing an essay written by college student Neil Marshall in 1996 entitled "Nostradamus: A Critical Analysis." In the essay itself, Marshall admits inventing the quatrain for the purpose of demonstrating — quite ironically, in light of the way it was subsequently misused — how a Nostradamus-like verse can be so cryptically couched as to lend itself to whatever interpretation one wishes to make.
    http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/his...tradamus_2.htm

  21. Post #21
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts

  22. Post #22
    The King Of Zing
    minilandstan's Avatar
    September 2009
    14,817 Posts
    The passages seem a little too vague, so that they could be interpreted by anything.

    Plus, 9/11 involved the world trade center, the pentagon, and another building which was not destroyed due to the plane being taken back from the passengers, which crashed in a field.

  23. Post #23
    Gold Member
    yuki's Avatar
    December 2006
    4,209 Posts
    No, his predictions are vague and 90% of them were complete garbage. It's nonsensical mysticism, those who believe it also believe dumb shit like Astrology.

  24. Post #24
    Gold Member
    JustGman's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,053 Posts
    Astrology and occult "sciences" are full of shit. Nobody can predict the future, and your argument of "Well even though most of his predictions are bullshit, that doesn't mean ALL of them are!" no, it does. If you say 5 major things are going to happen and they don't, odds are you're full of shit.

  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    Bredirish123's Avatar
    October 2006
    9,190 Posts
    Anyone can be like Nostradamus.

    For example: I see a great fire glistening on the river Thames as a dark soot descends upon London and the tower of Parliament collapses.

    Although it's not as vague as some of his bullshit, I doubt I'd be considered a future reading prophet if at sometime within the next thousand years London catches ablaze and Parliament is burned to the ground.

  26. Post #26
    Dennab
    May 2010
    1,020 Posts
    No, his predictions are vague and 90% of them were complete garbage. It's nonsensical mysticism, those who believe it also believe dumb shit like Astrology.
    It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.

  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    Arachnidus's Avatar
    July 2007
    7,544 Posts
    It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.
    Yes, it would have. It's called coincidence. He made a few guesses. People interpreted them as prophecies. We live in a world where probability states everything can and will happen at some point. Saying something will happen isn't wrong, but he definitely didn't go ahead and say "SOMEONE'S GONNA FLY A PLANE INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER" or "ADOLF HITLER WILL RAMPAGE ACROSS EUROPE". He made a prediction, that, possibly, at some point in the future, something might happen.

  28. Post #28
    Antdawg's Avatar
    July 2010
    4,883 Posts
    The predictions are too vague, they could be applied to nearly everything, without regard for what or when. In fact I'm going to make a prediction right here:

    Expelled from authority,

    End met down an angry road,

    Power is found with then owned


    (I'm not a poet so don't criticise my rather poor "prophecy")

    The thing is, this "prophecy" I made is just as vague (well, to be a fair a bit more vague) than Nostradamus' prophecies. You could apply it to the recent overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya, or you could apply it to a possible revolution 100 years in the future. When that revolution occurs (if it does), people could look at this "prophecy" and go "look at this! someone predicted the future!" although the same "prophecy" could be applied to numerous events throughout time, such as a revolution maybe 300 years in the future as well. Point is, this prophet is being incredibly vague and is getting unwarranted attention because of his prophecies.

  29. Post #29
    OvB
    Facepunch resident scientist
    OvB's Avatar
    March 2007
    12,731 Posts
    It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.
    He wrote nearly a thousand of these vague predictions. Eventually hes going to get a handful right. He's a pretty shitty future teller if he only got 10 out of 1000 right. Oh wait, he's not a future teller.

    You're going to take a shit tomorrow/

    Wow, I can do it to!

  30. Post #30

    May 2010
    1,092 Posts
    No, they are the ramblings of a superstitious and mad man.

  31. Post #31
    Gold Member
    Bredirish123's Avatar
    October 2006
    9,190 Posts
    I guess that since the History Channel has done several documentaries on aliens building the pyramids, it must be true.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp


    Pretty much all of the History Channel.

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    Nikita's Avatar
    April 2005
    1,875 Posts
    Aside from using horribly generic terms, for just about every thing Nostradamus said, he also said elsewhere that the opposite would happen.

  33. Post #33
    retarded faggot
    Mateo!'s Avatar
    January 2008
    1,408 Posts
    Had he added some kind of date, maybe it'd seem like he had predicted something.

    Instead, he wrote a bunch of vague writings that could apply to a multitude of disasters, and quite a lot of them.

    A very small portion have predicted anything.

    Fuck everyone else has already said this.

    For the most part, a lot of the quotes aren't even what he originally wrote, many have been changed through translation errors and fabrication.

  34. Post #34
    Viking Chest hair simulator 2012
    TheDestroyerOfall's Avatar
    June 2009
    2,378 Posts
    "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Nuclear weapon, Jerusalem
    Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, Israels and Palestine
    while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", While the city remains, The leader of israel steps down
    The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" Iran starts world war three.

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    SigmaLambda's Avatar
    March 2006
    6,428 Posts
    It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.
    if you're just randomly guessing things you'll still be right some of the time if you make enough guesses

    predicting the future is impossible because there is no such thing as magic.

    Edited:

    "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Nuclear weapon, Jerusalem
    Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, Israels and Palestine
    while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", While the city remains, The leader of israel steps down
    The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" Iran starts world war three.
    it's already been shown that that passage was made up:

    http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/his...tradamus_2.htm

    Edited:

    why did you post this in the debate subforum when you're clearly not actually interested in a debate?

  36. Post #36
    Quq

    December 2010
    1,309 Posts
    how does the first one predict the French Revolution? the first two lines don't really suggest a revolution, the thing about "princes and lord held captive in prisons" could be applied to most revolutions, and "headless" clearly doesn't make any sense in that context if it's supposed to mean the guillotine

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    Luxo's Avatar
    February 2008
    4,102 Posts
    Answering this question really only requires placing the best explanations in a logical comparison:
    A) Nostradamus possessed some sort of supernatural way of receiving cryptic visions of the future.
    B) Nostradamus made some generalized predictions about the future that, coincidentally, happened to fit events that occurred at later times.

    Logic cannot specifically say which one of these is true but it can tell us which one is more likely.

    Since coincidences happen all the time, it would reason to stand that B is the most likely explanation.

  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    Recurracy's Avatar
    August 2009
    11,451 Posts
    This doesn't belong in this section, it belongs in Fast Threads. It's too biased.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    matrix_1995's Avatar
    May 2008
    3,684 Posts
    The majority of these predictions are pretty much invalid in the discussion of his powers of prediction, seeing as people have been changing and downright fabricating them to their hearts content for the past ~500 years

  40. Post #40
    8==== ===== ===== ===== ===D
    Dennab
    April 2008
    4,831 Posts
    Saying that the 9/11 predictions or even any of these predictions are true is like saying this
    is true