1. Post #1
    Ignhelper's Avatar
    November 2009
    9,912 Posts
    [release]
    What price effortless learning? In a paper published in the latest issue of Science, neuroscientists say they've developed a novel method of learning, that can cause long-lasting improvement in tasks that demand a high level of visual performance.
    And while the so-called neurofeedback method could one day be used to teach you kung fu, or to aid spinal-injury patients on the road to rehabilitation, evidence also suggests the technology could be used to target people without their knowledge, opening doors to numerous important ethical questions.
    According to a press release from the National Science Foundation:
    New research published today in the journal Science suggests it may be possible to use brain technology to learn to play a piano, reduce mental stress or hit a curve ball with little or no conscious effort. It's the kind of thing seen in Hollywood's "Matrix" franchise.
    Experiments conducted at Boston University (BU) and ATR Computational Neuroscience Laboratories in Kyoto, Japan, recently demonstrated that through a person's visual cortex, researchers could use decoded functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to induce brain activity patterns to match a previously known target state and thereby improve performance on visual tasks.
    Think of a person watching a computer screen and having his or her brain patterns modified to match those of a high-performing athlete or modified to recuperate from an accident or disease. Though preliminary, researchers say such possibilities may exist in the future.
    But here's the bit that's really interesting (and also pretty creepy): the researchers found that this novel learning approach worked even when test subjects weren't aware of what they were learning:
    "The most surprising thing in this study is that mere inductions of neural activation patterns...led to visual performance improvement...without presenting the feature or subjects' awareness of what was to be learned," said lead researcher Takeo Watanabe. He continues:
    We found that subjects were not aware of what was to be learned while behavioral data obtained before and after the neurofeedback training showed that subjects' visual performance improved specifically for the target orientation, which was used in the neurofeedback training.
    Is this research mind-blowing and exciting? Absolutely. I mean come on — automated learning? Yes. Sign me up. But according to research co-author Mitsuo Kawato, the neurofeedback mechanism could just as soon be used for purposes of hypnosis or covert mind control. And that... I'm not so keen on.
    "We have to be careful," he explains, "so that this method is not used in an unethical way." [/release]

    http://io9.com/5867113/scientists-say-theyre-paving-the-way-towards-matrix+style-learning--but-is-it-safe


    Awesome
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  2. Post #2
    Gold Member
    mastfire's Avatar
    July 2008
    1,847 Posts
    so what pill do we take?
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  3. Post #3
    I do it all
    fruxodaily's Avatar
    November 2010
    13,206 Posts
    so what pill do we take?
    The pill that makes you post quality post.
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  4. Post #4
    Gold Member
    Careld's Avatar
    August 2007
    2,750 Posts
    so what pill do we take?
    The one which has description: "I, for one, welcome our new overlords.."
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  5. Post #5
    imMonkeyGOD's Avatar
    May 2009
    1,524 Posts
    I know kung-fu
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  6. Post #6
    Goodthief's Avatar
    December 2009
    5,965 Posts
    Where do I sign up as a test subject?
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  7. Post #7
    What's brevity?
    ironman17's Avatar
    June 2006
    18,635 Posts
    Automated learning would probably mean less time required for schooling; kids would just have to get into the Feedbacker and download the intel, then show a test or two to make sure that the information adhered correctly. In general it'd mean kids would need less school-time, though that'd raise the question of where kids would congregate and socialise outside of the playgrounds or school corridors.

    The issues of hypnosis and/or mind control come with the territory of working with the mind. Hopefully this can be expanded on for psycho-medical purposes. Y'know, mental health and all that.
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  8. Post #8
    stuky4ever's Avatar
    October 2008
    499 Posts
    If this method falls under the wrong hands...
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  9. Post #9
    Gold Member
    Dippeggs's Avatar
    August 2006
    2,554 Posts
    If this method falls under the wrong hands...
    Go on.
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  10. Post #10
    The King Of Zing
    minilandstan's Avatar
    September 2009
    14,817 Posts
    All republicans could look smart...
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  11. Post #11
    What's brevity?
    ironman17's Avatar
    June 2006
    18,635 Posts
    If this method falls under the wrong hands...
    Needless to say Rick Perry must never get his hands on it. Him or ANY religious fanatic, for that matter.

    By that I mean he shouldn't be allowed to use it to indoctrinate a congregation of teenagers over the net; he should definitely be forced into one of these things to make him see how wrong he is.
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  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    6,746 Posts
    If this method falls under the wrong hands...
    This could actually be a problem. Companies could pay a LOT to have ADVERTISING put in this. I shouldn't even need to worry about this happening, and yet with the way that major companies seem to be so horribly desperate to gain as much money as possible, I can actually see it happening.
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  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Van-man's Avatar
    August 2009
    15,159 Posts
    All republicans could look smart...
    That would be quite a achievement
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  14. Post #14
    stuky4ever's Avatar
    October 2008
    499 Posts
    Needless to say Rick Perry must never get his hands on it. Him or ANY religious fanatic, for that matter.

    By that I mean he shouldn't be allowed to use it to indoctrinate a congregation of teenagers over the net; he should definitely be forced into one of these things to make him see how wrong he is.
    As President, I'll end Obama's war on religion. And I'll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage!

    I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message.

  15. Post #15
    What's brevity?
    ironman17's Avatar
    June 2006
    18,635 Posts
    IF he'll not see reason, even after heavy neurofeedback stuff, we could always use the tech to shatter his mind, drive him insane.
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  16. Post #16
    CrumbleShake's Avatar
    June 2010
    2,421 Posts
    I've been playing piano for the last 9 years. I've spent a lot of time and energy to get as good as I am and now they're saying they're going to be able to make that sort of thing happen in an instant. It's a little unfair.
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  17. Post #17
    Gold Member
    ForcedDj's Avatar
    May 2007
    2,322 Posts
    Again, like I said, science=awesome in some cases. This time, it is beyond awesome. I would volunteer as a test subject for this so I can learn new shit instantly.

    What about learning other languages, like Tagalog, or German, or Vietnamese?
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  18. Post #18
    I'M A SHAAARK!
    Lambeth's Avatar
    October 2009
    14,832 Posts
    Download all the porn
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  19. Post #19
    Positive energy is space expanding, negative energy is space contracting. Or reverse?
    onebit's Avatar
    July 2005
    6,297 Posts
    this is going to make rich people even worse
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  20. Post #20
    World of Vagax
    darth-veger's Avatar
    December 2008
    21,223 Posts


    Now i really hope all that stuff is actually going to be produced in our lifespan
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  21. Post #21
    -nesto-'s Avatar
    September 2007
    3,864 Posts
    As cool as this is it probably won't be affordable to the masses
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  22. Post #22
    Meet the Pyro
    InsanePyro's Avatar
    April 2006
    4,463 Posts
    Always wanted to know how to fly a helicopter...

  23. Post #23
    Crazy Nuts's Avatar
    November 2011
    185 Posts
    IF he'll not see reason, even after heavy neurofeedback stuff, we could always use the tech to shatter his mind, drive him insane.
    Are you implying he isn't already insane?
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  24. Post #24
    Sexist
    person11's Avatar
    July 2006
    6,879 Posts
    I've been playing piano for the last 9 years. I've spent a lot of time and energy to get as good as I am and now they're saying they're going to be able to make that sort of thing happen in an instant. It's a little unfair.
    I am not sure that knowing these things by instant learning would lead to perfect muscle memory though. You'd still be the better pianist.
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  25. Post #25
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,066 Posts
    WELP, there goes the 100k I'm spending on college!

  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    Crimor's Avatar
    June 2008
    10,332 Posts
    I've been playing piano for the last 9 years. I've spent a lot of time and energy to get as good as I am and now they're saying they're going to be able to make that sort of thing happen in an instant. It's a little unfair.
    You're mistaking wisdom for knowledge, you have a lot of wisdom on how to play a piano, this machine dispenses knowledge.
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  27. Post #27
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,591 Posts
    WELP, there goes the 100k I'm spending on college!
    Don't worry, it will likely cost the same amount for this to teach you elementary school knowledge.

    Edited:

    Not that it isn't damn cool or anything.

  28. Post #28
    Memento audere semper- audaces fortuna iuvat.
    lapsus_'s Avatar
    February 2010
    7,797 Posts
    article posted:
    this novel learning approach worked even when test subjects weren't aware of what they were learning
    Tinfoil hats out, guys!

  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    Mr.T's Avatar
    August 2010
    2,691 Posts
    I've been playing piano for the last 9 years. I've spent a lot of time and energy to get as good as I am and now they're saying they're going to be able to make that sort of thing happen in an instant. It's a little unfair.
    Hahahahaha, who gives a fuck if it's unfair? At least you learn it.
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  30. Post #30
    Gold Member
    smidge146's Avatar
    September 2006
    875 Posts
    Automated learning would probably mean less time required for schooling; kids would just have to get into the Feedbacker and download the intel, then show a test or two to make sure that the information adhered correctly. In general it'd mean kids would need less school-time, though that'd raise the question of where kids would congregate and socialise outside of the playgrounds or school corridors.

    The issues of hypnosis and/or mind control come with the territory of working with the mind. Hopefully this can be expanded on for psycho-medical purposes. Y'know, mental health and all that.
    They would be taught how to put their new knowledge to good use.

  31. Post #31
    www.bff-hab.de
    Dennab
    February 2009
    7,832 Posts
    Tinfoil hats out, guys!
    More like tinfoil sunglasses.

  32. Post #32
    Gold Member
    JustGman's Avatar
    December 2005
    6,053 Posts
    Instantly learn how to please a woman.
       because you know how, right?   
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  33. Post #33
    Memento audere semper- audaces fortuna iuvat.
    lapsus_'s Avatar
    February 2010
    7,797 Posts
    More like tinfoil sunglasses.
    FULL BODY ARMOR

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  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    February 2007
    13,126 Posts
    Oh how I wish I could be the subject to this.
    Then again if this ever becomes mainstream, artists, musicians, actors, comedians, etc will all gain an extreme amount of competition.
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  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,591 Posts
    You never know, It could just start up a new level of art. If everyone starts with advanced knowledge of this shit imagine how good things could get if they wanted to keep learning and improve on their already amazing skill.
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  36. Post #36
    Gold Member
    Kurtzund's Avatar
    September 2006
    1,421 Posts
    Sounds a great way for governments to brainwash their citizens.
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  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    VistaPOWA's Avatar
    October 2008
    8,370 Posts
    Problem is, what if the government uploads propaganda or such into these machines?
    Or, they could just waltz in, plug in their hard drive, delete everything, and replace that information with a lot of lies and incorrect facts.

    If there'll be a central authority who will control these machines, they will control the facts they give us. They will be able to control the way we think, the way we process the information around us. They will be able to give us the false sense of knowing everything we wanted, when in fact, we will only know what they wanted us to know.
    Who knows when will someone abuse his power, and uploads the information that 2 plus 2 equals 5?
    What if everyone is taught that 2 plus 2 equals five? Does it become a fact, or not?


    Personally, I'll never use these machines. Too much space for manipulation, and there's selfishness in each one of us.
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  38. Post #38
    Gold Member
    squids_eye's Avatar
    July 2006
    5,591 Posts
    Do you think this could be used to teach people with things like asperger syndrome or autism to act more normally in society by just downloading normal social behaviors into their heads?

    Edited:

    Problem is, what if the government uploads propaganda or such into these machines?
    Or, they could just waltz in, plug in their hard drive, delete everything, and replace that information with a lot of lies and incorrect facts.

    If there'll be a central authority who will control these machines, they will control the facts they give us.
    Who knows when will someone abuse his power, and upload the information that 2 plus 2 equals 5.
    What if everyone is taught that 2 plus 2 equals five? Does it become a fact, or not?


    Personally, I'll never use these machines. Too much space for manipulation, and there's selfishness in each one of us.
    It would have to be regulated by a large, anonymous group of intelligent people who don't have anything to gain by tricking the masses. They wouldn't be allowed to know who the other members of the group are either so that they can't work together to corrupt the system without one of them calling the rest of them out on it and they wouldn't be able to use it themselves. Ofcourse that would be incredibly difficult to organise.

    Edited:

    And it should have as little to do with the government as possible.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    GĂ©za!'s Avatar
    January 2008
    5,868 Posts
    It can literally change your mind, without your consent even?

    That sounds a tad bit terrifying
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  40. Post #40
    I WOTCH ANIEM
    Maximo13's Avatar
    October 2008
    8,027 Posts
    Wow, what the fuck. This would've been so useful ~5 years ago.
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