1. Post #1
    Gold Member
    Turnips5's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,086 Posts
    New Scientist posted:


    THE tiny glass bottle in my hand is filled with what looks like crude oil, but it's actually oil's nemesis. If it works, this black sludge will transform the rechargeable battery, doubling the range of electric cars and making petroleum obsolete.


    Today's electric cars are handicapped by batteries that are heavy, expensive and a waste of space. Two-thirds of the volume of the battery in Nissan's Leaf electric car, for example, consists of materials that provide structural support but generate no power. And those materials cost more than the electrically active components.
    One way to vastly improve rechargeable batteries is to put more of that deadweight to work. That's the purpose of the secret sauce in the bottle, nicknamed "Cambridge crude" by Yet-Ming Chiang and his colleagues at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who developed it.


    In a standard battery, ions shuttle from one solid electrode to the other through a liquid or powder electrolyte. This in turn forces electrons to flow in an external wire linking the electrodes, creating a current. In Chiang's battery, the electrodes take the form of tiny particles of a lithium compound mixed with liquid electrolyte to make a slurry. The battery uses two streams of slurry, one positively charged and the other negatively charged. Both are pumped across aluminium and copper current collectors with a permeable membrane in between. As they flow the streams exchange lithium ions across the membrane, causing a current to flow externally. To recharge the battery, you apply a voltage to push the ions back across the membrane.


    The MIT creation is a type of flow battery, which normally has a liquid electrolyte that moves past stationary electrodes. Chiang reckons that the power per unit volume delivered by his lithium "semi-solid" flow battery will be 10 times that of conventional designs (Advanced Energy Materials, DOI: 10.1002/aenm.201100152).
    "This is probably the most exciting development in electrical energy storage in the past couple of years," says Yury Gogotsi of Drexel Nanotechnology Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. "Chiang offers a unique hybrid between a flow battery and a lithium-ion battery."
    Drivers could have three ways of recharging the semi-solid flow battery. They could pump out spent slurry and pump in fresh; head to a recharge station where tanks of spent slurry would be replaced with fresh ones; or recharge the slurries with an electric current. In the first two cases regaining full power should only take a matter of minutes.


    Rechargeable batteries are the heaviest and most expensive components of electric cars by a large margin. Chiang estimates that the cost of manufacturing his team's battery will be $250 per kilowatt-hour of generating capacity. So if one were built to replace the 24-kWh battery in the Nissan Leaf, it would cost $6000. That is about one-third the cost of existing batteries, and just low enough to compete with gasoline. Chiang also calculates that Cambridge crude would let a car travel at least 300 kilometres on a single charge, double what is possible with today's batteries.


    "This is an especially beautiful technology," says Dan Steingart of the City University of New York Energy Institute, because you can recharge the spent slurry. But he adds that even if the team manages to create a prototype car battery within five years, building the recharge stations to support it would take much longer.
    Last year Chiang, his colleague Craig Carter and entrepreneur Throop Wilder founded a company called 24M Technologies to develop the battery. They have raised $16 million in funding so far, and plan to have a compact prototype ready in 2013.
    Source : New Scientist

    Basically, instead of having to recharge a battery in your hypothetical electric car, in theory you could just pump out your flat slurry and pump in new pre-charged slurry, while the "slurry station" or whatever does the actual recharging.

    What I think is most exciting about this is the fact that instead of this being a theoretical, far off idea, they actually have a bottle of the stuff right there.

    Sounds like a plan!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Winner Winner x 53Late Late x 3Disagree Disagree x 2 (list)

  2. Post #2
    Terminutter's Avatar
    June 2010
    6,148 Posts
    Soon it will vanish into the backgrounds, never to be heard of again.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Linux United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 70Disagree Disagree x 4Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  3. Post #3
    Titlepocalypse 2012 participant
    Zedicus Mann's Avatar
    November 2010
    7,935 Posts
    Soon it will vanish into the backgrounds, never to be heard of again.
    It's the Government. If they let electric cars come up now, they'll have to tell us they've been lying about having plenty of oil this whole time.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Disagree Disagree x 3Dumb Dumb x 1 (list)

  4. Post #4
    Dougley's Avatar
    May 2010
    501 Posts


    ?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United States Show Events Agree Agree x 13Funny Funny x 6 (list)

  5. Post #5
    Gold Member
    Gareth's Avatar
    July 2006
    2,628 Posts
    Soon it will vanish into the backgrounds, never to be heard of again.
    the sad truth. atleast BP or shell or someone will magically re-invent this when there's no more petrol to make a killing from
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 5Zing Zing x 1 (list)

  6. Post #6
    GeneralFredrik's Avatar
    April 2010
    2,446 Posts
    A prototype ready in 2013? This will certainly go places. I'm excited!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Sweden Show Events Optimistic Optimistic x 1 (list)

  7. Post #7
    Gold Member
    SpaceGhost's Avatar
    December 2010
    4,743 Posts
    Looks somewhat promising, but hydrogen looks like the next-generation fuel, it doesn't have to be refuled frequently, and has better MPG, cars that run off it now get a minimum of 60 to a max of 100+
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United States Show Events Agree Agree x 5 (list)

  8. Post #8
    Gold Member
    KorJax's Avatar
    January 2007
    11,524 Posts
    Yeah lets cut this electric shit and get Hydrogen plz.

    They already have Hydrogen pumps in California I think.

    It's the perfect car - not nearly as toxic to produce as eletric, creates Water as its waste, etc

    Only issue is that Hydrogen sounds like it would be expensive to produce on a wide scale. At least we know it'll never run out.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Linux United States Show Events Agree Agree x 13 (list)

  9. Post #9
    Mort and Charon's Avatar
    April 2009
    1,919 Posts
    This is the way forward with the energy crisis, innovation. Not "We all must live like hermits and walk everywhere and eat leaves!". We're the human race, we shouldn't be looking at reversing things, but looking forward to solve our problems.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 9 (list)

  10. Post #10
    Gold Member
    Occlusion's Avatar
    March 2008
    6,620 Posts
    Yeah lets cut this electric shit and get Hydrogen plz.

    They already have Hydrogen pumps in California I think.

    It's the perfect car - not nearly as toxic to produce as eletric, creates Water as its waste, etc

    Only issue is that Hydrogen sounds like it would be expensive to produce on a wide scale. At least we know it'll never run out.
    We drill miles down in the middle of oceans to get oil, i'm sure we can manage to extract some hydrogen.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 9 (list)

  11. Post #11
    Gold Member
    Dr.C's Avatar
    April 2006
    7,262 Posts
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United States Show Events Funny Funny x 22 (list)

  12. Post #12
    Gold Member
    dogmachines's Avatar
    December 2009
    8,199 Posts
    This is awesome, too bad the oil companies with bury this under money and lobbyists so it never sees the light of day for another 15 years.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United States Show Events Agree Agree x 4 (list)

  13. Post #13
    Gold Member
    Turnips5's Avatar
    January 2007
    7,086 Posts
    Yeah lets cut this electric shit and get Hydrogen plz.

    They already have Hydrogen pumps in California I think.

    It's the perfect car - not nearly as toxic to produce as eletric, creates Water as its waste, etc

    Only issue is that Hydrogen sounds like it would be expensive to produce on a wide scale. At least we know it'll never run out.
    except we need some way to store hydrogen without it being liable to, y'know, blow up in our faces

    though apparently we're having some luck using nanobeads

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/...gen-beads.html
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  14. Post #14
    Dangit Peggy, who threw out this mayon naise jar; I use it to store, extra screws.
    Irishman23's Avatar
    February 2008
    939 Posts
    Seems interesting to say the least. Electric is a better approach, but I thought hydrogen vehicles were unsafe considering a lot of head on collisions occur each year. Is it true that they are unsafe, or is that the media just talking?

  15. Post #15
    Gold Member
    sami-elite's Avatar
    May 2007
    3,810 Posts
    Seems interesting to say the least. Electric is a better approach, but I thought hydrogen vehicles were unsafe considering a lot of head on collisions occur each year. Is it true that they are unsafe, or is that the media just talking?
    Car are unsafe?
    Why did noone tell me this before!?

  16. Post #16
    Gold Member
    DaCommie1's Avatar
    June 2008
    6,821 Posts
    They'll charge five times as much for it at the pumps, and nobody will buy a car running it.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Canada Show Events Dumb Dumb x 2 (list)

  17. Post #17
    TheHypnotoad's Avatar
    June 2010
    2,151 Posts
    Neat! I love sludge!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United Kingdom Show Events Optimistic Optimistic x 2 (list)

  18. Post #18
    Internet Detective (HBIED certified)
    leach139's Avatar
    August 2007
    7,210 Posts
    Combine this easily transportable slurry (for use station <-> car) with Hydrogen plants at the stations themselves to recharge the slurry and you're on to a winner - cars don't have to be fitted with hydrogen equipment (rather expensive & volatile), and gas stations can sell off excess electric (har har) to the grid for mass profit.

  19. Post #19
    Test Card F's Avatar
    September 2010
    1,025 Posts
    Electrified Toxic Waste?!
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP United Kingdom Show Events Funny Funny x 5Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  20. Post #20
    Gold Member
    DarkSpider's Avatar
    July 2006
    816 Posts
    I always figured it'd be some electrically charged liquid. Nice that they specify it can compete economically with gasoline. That makes me think we might hear from this again. As long as the maker doesn't cave to a billion dollar buyout by the oilheads.

  21. Post #21
    kill yourself
    Protocol7's Avatar
    June 2006
    25,732 Posts
    I always figured it'd be some electrically charged liquid. Nice that they specify it can compete economically with gasoline. That makes me think we might hear from this again. As long as the maker doesn't cave to a billion dollar buyout by the oilheads.
    if he's smart he'll realize patenting this technology will land you a lot more than what a buyout will

  22. Post #22
    Voted WORST Gold Member 2012
    Killuah's Avatar
    August 2005
    15,119 Posts
    First problem I see with this is gathering the necessary amounts of lithium.
    Seeing how this pretty much means recycable fuel we'd need MASSIVE amounts of it.

  23. Post #23
    Scar's Avatar
    September 2010
    4,165 Posts
    Electrified Toxic Waste?!
    The stuff that Red Bull is made of?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 Germany Show Events Funny Funny x 6Agree Agree x 3Zing Zing x 1Optimistic Optimistic x 1 (list)

  24. Post #24
    Test Card F's Avatar
    September 2010
    1,025 Posts
    The stuff that Red Bull is made of?
    Yep.

  25. Post #25
    Dennab
    September 2011
    1,790 Posts
    if he's smart he'll realize patenting this technology will land you a lot more than what a buyout will
    He's a goddamn Chinese kid at the MI motherfucking T. Of course he's smart.

  26. Post #26
    Gold Member
    Silly Sil's Avatar
    March 2006
    4,968 Posts
    Oops patent bought out by an oil company for 100 mil and hidden in their archives because it would make them loose many times more.
    if he's smart he'll realize patenting this technology will land you a lot more than what a buyout will
    The problem is he either gives it out for free (making his lifetime of work unprofitable for him) or he sells the patent. If he'd try to go out with it like you're saying he'd get blocked/blackmailed/threated.

  27. Post #27
    Atlascore's Avatar
    June 2011
    8,358 Posts
    Soon it will vanish into the backgrounds, never to be heard of again.
    If it's cheaper to produce than oil, and can easily be mass produced, I'm pretty sure oil company's will still buy it, but instead of shelving it they'll make it themselves and force the car companies to start making electric cars the standard.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows Vista United States Show Events Optimistic Optimistic x 1 (list)

  28. Post #28
    Gold Member
    Electrocuter's Avatar
    December 2005
    5,896 Posts
    Yeah lets cut this electric shit and get Hydrogen plz.

    They already have Hydrogen pumps in California I think.

    It's the perfect car - not nearly as toxic to produce as eletric, creates Water as its waste, etc

    Only issue is that Hydrogen sounds like it would be expensive to produce on a wide scale. At least we know it'll never run out.
    It's also explosive, unlike regular gas that just burns.

    Car accidents would be pretty bad with hydrogen cars.

  29. Post #29
    Gold Member
    Swilly's Avatar
    December 2009
    15,042 Posts
    ...Electrified Toxic Waste...

    Wasn't that a joke in Shepard's Mind?
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 4 (list)

  30. Post #30
    Dennab
    October 2007
    2,399 Posts
    Fuck that shit, give me a Ford Nucleon.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 9 (list)

  31. Post #31
    JCDentonUNATCO's Avatar
    November 2010
    5,054 Posts
    Fuck that shit, give me a Ford Nucleon.
    You will die of radiation poisoning before you even make it halfway to the supermarket.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 3 (list)

  32. Post #32
    Dennab
    October 2007
    2,399 Posts
    Atleast I will do it in style.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United Kingdom Show Events Agree Agree x 7 (list)

  33. Post #33
    Gold Member
    kaine123's Avatar
    February 2010
    9,248 Posts
    This won't come into use as long as the oil corporations have a say.

  34. Post #34
    Gold Member
    Dennab
    January 2006
    3,020 Posts
    Atleast I will do it in style.
    Internally bleeding to death in style.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Funny Funny x 2Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  35. Post #35
    Gold Member
    aznz888's Avatar
    September 2005
    3,877 Posts
    i hope people who are advocating hydrogen do realize that you dont get that stuff magically from the hydrogen plants

    it takes the process of electrolysis to extract hydrogen from water, and electricity ain't free. sure, you could say that we'll use solar farms, wind turbines, and other renewable energy sources for the electricity, but our primary source is still from burning coal.

    now if you support both nuclear AND hydrogen, that's a definite yes. incredible amounts of electricity + hydrogen fuel = save the world and save money

  36. Post #36
    Conservative Cunt who fucking loves piss
    Elecbullet's Avatar
    November 2007
    11,443 Posts
    Basically, instead of having to recharge a battery in your hypothetical electric car, in theory you could just pump out your flat slurry and pump in new pre-charged slurry, while the "slurry station" or whatever does the actual recharging.
    I always thought:

    Why don't we make battery exchange stations in cars? Instead of parking your car for 30 minutes while it charges, which sucks, you pull in, slip out the batteries, slip new ones in, put the old batteries in the charge station, pay, drive off?

    Of course we'd have to redesign all electric cars so that the batteries were accessible and removable easily, but it'd be an improvement.
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows 7 United States Show Events Agree Agree x 1 (list)

  37. Post #37
    Gold Member
    ewitwins's Avatar
    December 2009
    14,066 Posts
    I wonder what it smells like?...

  38. Post #38
    HEY GUYS DID I MENTION I'M IN THE ARMY
    SKEEA's Avatar
    March 2006
    3,244 Posts
    Hydrogen is not even an option. The models of vehicle that DO run on hydrogen? One million dollars. I think that electric is the way to go. Safe, efficient, and can go through many leaps in technology. Sounds good to me.

  39. Post #39
    Gold Member
    Kondor58's Avatar
    April 2006
    14,096 Posts
    Source : New Scientist

    Basically, instead of having to recharge a battery in your hypothetical electric car, in theory you could just pump out your flat slurry and pump in new pre-charged slurry, while the "slurry station" or whatever does the actual recharging.

    What I think is most exciting about this is the fact that instead of this being a theoretical, far off idea, they actually have a bottle of the stuff right there.

    Sounds like a plan!
    Rechargeable and replaceable sounds awesome

  40. Post #40
    Gold Member
    V12US's Avatar
    August 2005
    4,425 Posts
    Yeah lets cut this electric shit and get Hydrogen plz.

    They already have Hydrogen pumps in California I think.

    It's the perfect car - not nearly as toxic to produce as eletric, creates Water as its waste, etc

    Only issue is that Hydrogen sounds like it would be expensive to produce on a wide scale. At least we know it'll never run out.
    Sounds good




    Oh wait
    Reply With Quote Edit / Delete Reply Windows XP Netherlands Show Events Funny Funny x 3 (list)