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Post #81Indiscriminately means that this would do nothing to resolve the problem. The megabase would still be invulnerable.
Hell, to me it sounds like this would hurt low level players the most, especially now that hostile environments require you to have your shit together to survive there. The temperate zones would be full of keepers, where all the noobs are, while the arctic and desert zones would be empty.
Edited:
Agreed, which is why the mega base must be addressed.
No one is going to raid a mega-base.
The cost of a 1x1 is much less than the cost of 1 C4, so 40 1x1s don't get you near the amount of C4 it takes to raid a 40 room base.
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The most activity happens around mega-bases and spawn zones. as long as you get away from spawn, your odds wouldn't be so bad. Also the damage to mega-structures would encourage players to stalk caretakers, once they've torn through a wall or two of a mega-structure and moved on, why not finish what they've started?
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You hit the biggest flaw in the logic of your argument against mega-bases, and yet still fail to realize that it's the biggest flaw in the logic of your argument against mega-bases. Mega-bases didn't chase people off servers, newbs getting raped by people that already could produce C4 did. Those C4 people could have been an army of 20 all with 2x2x2s going around picking easy targets, or it could have been 1 dick with a 30x10x10. The size of those bases doesn't matter, it was because they were already being hunted when they didn't stand a chance.
The problems with server hopping compound beyond this, but none of it has anything to do with mega-builds. If that were the case, they'd be leaving as soon as they saw those big bases, and not after they got raided their first time.
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To clarify the legacy server was not modded, default setting community server.
Granted i can say not all of the C4 was farmed, a lot of it was raided and crafted from raided materials.
If i remember correctly we self farmed mats for 23 or 24 C4. Rest was all acquired by raiding others and gaining ready C4 or mats for it from other people. Once you achieved a certain amount it just became more and more easy to raid and the train just piledrived on without the need to self farm, you gained all you needed from other people. People stored C4 for raids and got raided before spending it.
And yes storing that amount would be considered insane, if it weren't for the fact that we played quite a while on one server without resets and the game got boring cause nothing had any value anymore ( you could raid and raid and gain items but you would never be able to spend them all. We were literally just throwing away M4s and full sets of kevlar cause we didn't have space to store it all), having the C4 in that big amounts had no real value cause we couldn't gain anything more valuable with it really.
We didn't even spent all that C4. We both quitted the game and only returned when experimental came the main, cause there was nothing new to be seen in legacy, it's actually highly likely someone found and raided our house after we've been gone and stayed away multiple months and the house eventually decayed. If someone found it must have been a wtf moment finding all the C4, but i haven't been back in legacy since so no way to know if it was raided.
The 36x C4s on experimental was done prior 'using tools to demo'-nerf so 3 weeks ago, the patch which introduced C4 at start of february, this last week i didn't even find the BPs for either C4 or explo, so i crafted zero.
That 36x was also done in non modded default settings server, even more this was on official server.
It actually wasn't done from scratch over night. That was misleading, the sulfur ore was gained along building the stone house over couple of days, as was the low grade fuel. While building food was needed, just saved the fuel ingredients. But gathering the wood (remember this was done before hatchet nerf, at that time you gained 10k wood in matter of minutes) required for furnace, smelting of sulfur and crafting gunpowder and manufacturing the actual C4 was done overnight. And over night means over night, not some 2-4 hour period. I probably started woodcutting around 06pm-07pm and was done the next morning around 11am or so, it was more around 16 hours or so.
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Mega Builds for life!
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I agree that mega-builds are not the only factor in people leaving servers.
I do think they are a significant factor.
I agree that raiding is the primary cause of turnover. I argue that mega-bases are a large factor in why people don't choose servers that didn't freshly wipe.
Sure, there are other factors at play. Other groups might have guns already. Other groups might have C4 and hit your little shelter.
But the megabase is something that I think will force even experienced, determined groups to leave.
Figuring out how to get people to to establish themselves on existing servers rather than only going for wiped servers is a difficult problem that will likely take several solutions, but addressing megabases is definitely something that will have to happen if we hope to solve this.
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So, instead of having the option for new players to stand a chance against a group/person that already has c4 by allowing large builds, you suggest a method that would make it easier for that group/person to dominate the server.
Why would an experienced and established group leave if they have c4 and can easily raid everyone's bases with a handful of it?
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are you speculating or speaking from experience
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I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned (unless I missed it) that not all mega structures are even player bases. What do you do if you raid a mega structure and its not a base? Do these non-base structures need to be dealt with too? And, how do you tell the difference between a base and simply a structure?
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New players aren't going to just walk in and create a megabase. They take quite a bit of material.
An experienced group would be better off if they and the other group could both be raided.
Even if the new group could magically come up with the materials necessary for a megabase, that still leads to a stalemate on the server. Everyone stops raiding and tries to save C4 up until they decide that its better to go somewhere where they can actually raid again.
Edited:
Good point, hopefully it would be possible to distinguish say, a bridge from a base.
But honestly, gameplay mechanics and raiding mechanics in particular should probably come before the ability to build structures creatively. Hopefully both can be accomodated, but if not raiding should take precedence.
There are lots of games that permit creative building construction, and only rust that features a sensible raiding system.
BTW: I posted a follow on to this thread on reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/com...rusts_endgame/
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Since there is no current limit to how big you can build, or any detriments to building big, everything is speculation. Especially what's written below. I'll explain after on why it is.
It is possible for a small group to build big on a new server. Sure it takes a lot of materials, but within a few hours of my very first day playing on experimental, I had a 4x4x3. That was by myself, and only a few hours. By the end of my first day, it would easily be a mega-base. If a group, even a small one, was working together, it would be even faster. It's not magic, all this can be learned easily.
The part about an experienced group being better off if it could be raided made me lol. That's just ridiculous.
And the last part about the stalemate, it only happens when people don't want to fight it out. Even then, people are going to blow holes in a base just to see what's inside. They'll just do it when they know the occupants aren't online. They don't particularly care if they get every single room. By the time a stalemate might occur, people quit caring about how much C4 it takes to get into a base.
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I have always built my Mega bases purely from the joy of being able to do so, not because of external influences
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Also safer, a well built tower not buggable with pillars and barricades increases the c4 required for every floor it has.
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All this anti-megabase stuff just makes me think of N. Korea's comical obsession with N. America... Keep megabases, just gimme a catapult to let me launch myself at them while strapped to the teeth with C4 = problem solved >:D
otherwise, I hope they add mechanics similar to above, but also ones that add functionality to megabases... lemme build a dam and collect enough rain water to blow a hole in it to wash out my neighbors in the valley below...
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An idea i thought off this morning.
Bases become invulnerable (or hard to destroy) when the players who have building rights are offline but become easy targets when in game.
Have a cool down period when they log off of say 3 times however long they have been in game for. So if they play only 1 hour then the base is invulnerable for 3 hours (this is only a suggestion).
Or could even have it that if they player or the building takes damage then that stops any cool down period so players can't just log off as an easy way out of saving themselves and their base. So a wall gets hit and the base owner logs off anyway then the building is not in invulnerability mode but if the damage stops for say 20 minutes then the invulnerability cool down mode kicks in.
This way if players are offline and are not able to defend their base then they have some comfort that it's safe but if they are in game they have a chance to protect it. This would promote team play as well as by having friends who can help defend is better.
(only an idea though so don't shoot me :))
Some of the above can probably be done as a mod first to test it out. I'd even put the mod on my server if someone wanted to do it.
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Your intention is good, but this is too easy to exploit: Build a base, give building rights to 1 player only, log off this player forever -> unraidable base forever.
2nd problem: bases of people that don't play on that server anymore will stay there forever.
I was also thinking of a way to discourage raiding offline and encourage raiding online people, but i was not able to come up with an idea, that is not exploitable.
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if you gave building rights to 1 player only then as i mentioned above after only a little amount of time the base would become raidable again because of the cooldown period. That 1 player would have had to play a very long time to rack up the time to make it invulnerable, could even make it a 1:1 ratio if you wanted to be harsh.
So there is no 2nd problem as bases are only invulnerable if there are no players on and that the last player on has played for a certain amount of hours to rack up invulnerability hour points to protect the base while that player is offline.
2 players build a base that takes 3 hours and 1 logs off
base is still raidable as 2nd player is ingame
4 hours the 2nd player logs off so the base invulnerability mode has now kicked in for whatever ratio the server is set as (1:1, 1:3, etc) unless the base or the player was attacked before that player logged off as that would trigger another attack mode.
so now the base is invulnerable for 12 hours as the server is setup as a 1:3 ratio and as the last player played for 4 hours it's 4x3=12
after 12 hours have passed the 2 players have not logged in yet and so the base comes out of invulnerability mode and is open for attack.
If one of the players logged in before the 12 hours the base also comes out of invulnerability mode as there is a player in to defend the base.
(this is a 1st draft and open to rule change)
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Now i get your idea, it sounds quite good. So basically your idea is, that everybody logged to a cupboard and playing gives some "invulnerability time" to an account, that is used while everybody of that cupboard is offline. The invulnerability only triggers after some delay. This sounds reasonable and it would be an interesting option for admins to implement it on a community server.
The last problem, that comes from this, are player groups who do not play at the same time. Would you say it is ok that there are 2 groups, that are not able to raid each other at all, because they don't play at the same time? I am not sure about this. Another point (might be rare) are groups of people, that play at mixed times:
Player A plays at low server times 8:00-14:00 and generates invulnerability.
Player B plays at high server times 18:00-24:00 and does not log into cupboard.
This way the base becomes very unlikely to raid.
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A few months ago a friend and myself came across what we thought was an admins base (mega base). It was so large that it caused lagging and was wondering if the admin had given himself a helping hand with resources (the weekly wipes suggested that to build so big would require 24/7 materials farming). Our two man army did not fare too well.
http://youtu.be/m-6FoGDlL2o?t=15m9s
How the heck do you insert video. Done it before, but no joy this time.
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Since I always think that large group ruin server and Rust fun, I'll put my 2 cent on this topic.
First let me say that I think the bomber thing is a strange idea and I do not really like it, but I agree with the large clan base problem.
I have put way to much hours (almost 1000) playing Rust, as a clan player and as a lone wolf, in legacy and in the new version...
One feature that was implement in Legacy really promote the clan gameplay style and megabase thing. It was the door sharing... before door sharing each player must have there own base, shack or room. As a clan we build a center base with a single base keeper where we put our valuable stock, but only one people have access to this center base, if he is not there you can't get in. So each other player build his own shack near the main base or attach to it to put there personal item. Since not everybody live in the same base the base size was a lot less, and each small personal base around the main was a more easy target.
After they door sharing possibility "now codelock" base get bigger and almost unraidable and it is a lot easier for a clan to totally dominate.
Door sharing could be the main problem... everybody want this option... but...
And for building lover, single player mega base was never a problem to a server life, so let a player build a castle for himself if it's what he want. He will never endanger a server with his creation. But large group megabase do endanger server life as they can safely harass every other player.
Agree x 3
Funny x 1
Disagree x 1
Winner x 1
Artistic x 1
