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Post #1I just wanted to say I love the new buildng system!
Being able to upgrade and destroy walls, the tool cabinet which allows only you to build, it's great.
Go ahead and improve or tune it, but please don't change it back to the old building system. This one is much better!
Also it would be cool if you would add farming in the long run :) I know you don't want to have a building simulation, but building is such a fun and rewarding part of rust.
Keep up your good work, the game is getting better every week now!
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Yep. Please don't fuck with the tool cabinet. Works great.
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they have to fuck with it some how because a person only needs to demolish the stairs so you can not get up to the second floor.
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take out their supporting walls if its upstairs and try make cupboard fall so you can build :)
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Pretty much. People need to think differently now.
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doesnt helps if someone have build his house on a rock
and i liked the old build System more
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Maybe there could be a solution which brings the best of the old and new system together, if you would elaborate what you liked about it instead of just bashing and flagging my post as dump.
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Yeh, I like the new building system too. I'm not a big fan of the cupboard though. Finding a good balance is key with this system. I think this will be a challenge tbh.
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Building ownership. Your welcome.
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complete opposite of the devs vision. what makes the building yours?
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I guess it makes it mine in that, I built it and I put the hours into gathering to build it. If I can survive the process to get resources, I should be rewarded with a castle of my own. Of course this does not speak to the rights of the raiding, pillaging, medieval bastards roaming the landscape :)
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It's a tricky situation. You have to try and work out what the actual intended game mechanic is.
My fundamental issue with the old legacy system was that you had to go to ridiculous lengths to A) prevent griefing and B) to stop people easily building a staircase to access your highest floors. Spending time surrounding my building with a wall of pillars was dumb and ugly.
So the toolcupboard method actually solves both these issue easily. Great! But now, it is too easy to protect yourself by destroying your stairs each night, for example.
So some sort of middle ground would make sense. For example, perhaps make the 'destroy' function only applicable for 1 minute after placing a block, to allow adjustments but only initially.
But how to prevent easy griefing without stopping raiders from using building blocks to raid?? I just don't know.
Some people will have no issue with the ability to build stairs to raid, but for me it just seems to be poor game design to make it so easy to get into a tall building when height is really your only way of putting a decent number of doors between your loot room and the entrance.
I don't envy Garry his task...
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i like the idea of a time limited "destroy" function, that works well for most of the reasons i use the cupboard AT ALL.
i personally think of my house as mine not for the time i put into it, but the fact that i can maintain possession either by force of arms, or sufficient defenses. that or i'm lucky enough that no-one has tried to take it from me.
by preventing others from building on my house, it also prevents me from building on someones abandoned ruins, or building my way into another persons house to steal supplies. personally i think it makes the game too easy having building restriction zones. i have no problems with people building stairs to my higher floors; i know that people will presume my best gear is higher up, so don't always keep it there. the game shouldn't reward towers with extra security based on height, but it should indirectly reward large bases with more potential hiding spots for your gear.
you don't want a player to break in? have a well thought out base, and balanced wall health/tool damage game mechanics. don't want people to lock you in by building a wall over your only doorway? build your door with just enough distance from a rock that they can't build in between. or have the walls health fair enough that you can break it down if you really want to keep that house.
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Don't know whether someone else has already suggested this, but it would be amazing if they allowed locks to be attached the tool cupboards.
Otherwise I love the new system!
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Actually I suggested the same in this thread, which basically should continue what started here. So like your idea ;)
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1445819
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I am coming round to the new building system now, (I hated it at first). The only thing I really miss from the old building system is the "ladder" style steps, (that allowed you to build steps on 1x1 tile, instead of needing 2x1 tiles for steps). I think they should keep the current "stairs", but also introduce a "ladder" component, which acts like the old-style stairs.
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I agree, i think they should also add vertical ladders so that we can save even more space, plus Rope Ladders would really be a great idea, climb it to the next then reel it in.
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I would prefer a time limited placement option. If you destroy a stair you cannot replace it with another stair after several days or at all. Walls, floors or foundations would allow for instant replacement. That way you would eventually Exhaust the replacement locations for stairs on rock builds.
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so then I would not have any stairs, and just destroy the ceiling on the first floor, build a large chest, hop up to second floor and re place the ceiling.....
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Agreed. In fact if you're truly building a multi-story hut in the woods, a ladder is far easier than stairs. Ladders also bring in interesting defensive options, since anyone coming up would be extremely vulnerable.
Not wild about the current stairs, though.
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While I think the whole cabinet idea is awesome, and I like it way more then the old building system.
I have to agree something needs to get tweaked. Right now if you build up to a rock, destroy 1 set of stairs to get up to the rock.. And boom, you have a unraidable base.
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All they need to do is add some raiding tools like deployable ladders and light scaffolding that can be placed.
A temporary solution would be to disable the remove option for stairs.
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Personally I think everything more or less works amazing in terms of building. Until the latest patch, building is causing huge amounts of issues. I have solid foundation, pillars, walls, etc blah blah blah I've been building long enough to know what I'm doing, I know how to build so don't so don't flood me with fixes that won't work. Don't mean to sound rude, but it's clearly buggy. I've had single foundations bug out where they wouldn't allow me to place doors, a 1x1 at that. To add I've built up some pretty sweet places and log off for a few hours and come back. To my surprise random structures are missing and when I try to replace them with new objects they just bounce and fall. I've tried reloging, redling, and disconnecting and connecting servers and nothing fixes this.
Besides all that I do like the building. I think the tool cupboards were the best addition of all. They add enough defense that it'll take forever solo and you'll probably die in the process. Then again you can team up and demolish walls no problem. Now I can't stand the fact that if you log off someone has all the time in the world to break in without an consequences. I have made some amazing structures and farmed mats for HOURS on end to only log back on naked on a beach. It's complete bullshit. You can then tell me it's realistic or some lame ass shit like that, but it's not at all. If I'm sleeping in my bed and someone is hacking at my house with a fucking axe I'm going to wake up and shoot his face off. In no way am I going to sleep through that to the point where he's hacking at my face with an axe in my bed. Now I'm not against having your character remain in game, that's pretty cool. I also not against people breaking in your house, I enjoy the rush of defending it more than anything else in the game. I'm not saying to take anything out or change anything, but give us something that we can do to help us safeguard our homes.
A few suggestions:
* Allow our characters to be AI controlled when a wall breaks down (When logged off). I'm not saying have them pop up out of bed and chase them down the road with a shotgun, not at all. What I'm saying is let your character equip whatever weapon you have and attack them as long as they are within your building area (Tool Cupboard or on built floors). It'll be easy enough to kill an AI guy with a gun when he runs out with an axe, but it's something to think about the next time you raid. 100% of the time there will be a battle when you raid and there should be, unless you're not home. It's more realistic than having 100% of Rust Citizens sleep like they chugged a bottle of Nyquil. I know this is more work than I'm letting on to be, but it's a suggestion.
*Give us traps we can activate when we sleep. Allow us to make code locks for trap doors that we can set before we go to sleep. Someone breaks and and walks over and they fall into a 1x1 stone pit. Do the classic weight on a rope for when someone opens a door. Have arrows shoot out of the walls using tubes filled with gunpowder and arrows. Give anyone the ability to disarm, but make it near impossible to notice unless you're looking for it.
All I'm saying is give everyone, not just the victims, something to protect themselves and all that they've worked for. It's nothing game breaking and still allows plenty of raiding but makes it more believable and fun.
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I wrote about this back before cupboards came out.
The addition of the stability system has made a window of opportunity to combat an unraidable base, but I wholly disagree that bringing down an entire base is the proper countermeasure to an issue created solely by poor planning of a feature.
The fact of the matter is, the raiding tactics used from legacy and being carried forward are largely odd in the grand scheme of things.
The idea of using a breach tactic on a wall is not really realistic.
Carrying around enough materials to build a 6 story scaffolding is not realistic.
When fencing/walls, traps, spikes, barbed/razor wire, ect... are available to protect the area you are building, raiding will become very difficult. Coupling these home protection features with adding weight limits to players, limit the ability of building stairs outside of houses, hopefully will eliminate the usefulness of the cupboards.
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Guys, I really appreciate all your input, but it would be great if you could continue in this thread as it's more fitting. Also most of the ideas you list, are already mentioned there.
I will take over Ideas from here to the other thread if they were new. But please post in the new Thread if you have suggestions.
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On the contrary, breaching walls is commonplace. Two guys with hatchets can get it done in a reasonable time, and four can breach in no time at all. While there's enough time to run out with a shotgun and blow one or two away before getting killed, there's really nothing that can be done when you're offline. The end result is that, just as in legacy, you need to either scatter all your belongings across multiple buildings or crates all over the map, or start fresh every day. A third option is to find another server, but since this is a game mechanic, that really doesn't solve the issue.
It's like the C4 deadlock of legacy. Once a team starts heavily crafting C4, there's no real point to having bases.
There are all kinds of ways to mitigate this without breaking the feel of Rust and without ruining the survival aspect of the game:
- An indestructible "locker bank" with code locks. The tradeoff is that yeah, you have some basic protected items (furnace, hatchet, sleeping bag, spear), but you're now at a "pond". Predators will be waiting knowing that weak players will be regularly stopping by.
- Being able to set fire to your house. This eventually destroys all your loot, denying the raiders their booty. And since it would take about a minute realtime to destroy the building, any raiders who spent time looking through your crates would take fire damage.
- Booby traps. The possibilities are endless, but even a simple explosive would do the trick. Whether it's big enough to destroy a small house or small enough to just do damage to one person, it would raise the cost for the raiding party.
- Hunger and thirst. Once these mechanics get implemented, the act of hatcheting down a wall -- as in real life -- could be made very expensive. This won't stop raiding, but it will make the prospect more expensive instead of the low-risk free-for-all that it is now.
None of these break the spirit of Rust, nor are they implausible -- especially in a world where someone can craft a Thompson out of firewood and cloth.
Don't get me wrong: this isn't new. This has been a constant balance issue for Rust since day one. I don't think making use of physics flaws (eg, building your home on top of a rock and then taking away the stairs) is the way to handle it, and I disagree with the posters who suggest things like "OMG AUTOMATIC LASER DEFENSE SYSTEM". And I'm not complaining -- Rust is still a great game. But being a work in progress, there's definitely a balance issue that needs work here.
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http://blog.homesecuritystore.com/20...enters-a-home/
http://www.cpss.net/blog/post/2014/0...-the-Home.aspx
http://www.safeguardtheworld.com/statistics.html
No mention of how common breaking down a wall is...
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I thought you meant "not realistic" as in "it's not realistic because not many people do it in the game". Blame my lack of afternoon coffee. I agree, it's a mechanic that needs to go. As it stands now, there's really no point to building. Get 3-4 friends together and no structure is unraidable.
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true that.. Only those who find an unclimbable rock are great to go for ever. Even though i had that myself, yet someone was able to get in from the roof side i assume.. Or hacks (my guess). Otherwise those building on the ground are most likely fucked (eventually).
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And for me, that takes away a lot of the game. Building a raidproof house by startup up on an unclimbable rock, building / destroying stairs as needed, and having a magical cupboard (lol) in the right place just feels like a silly workaround to an out-of-balance game element.
To clarify my earlier post, I don't think raiding should disappear from the game. I think that right now it's far too easy, and given the low risk and low effort required, it makes more sense to just raid an entire server than it does to gather and craft. Smashing down walls isn't the problem; smashing down walls with minimal effort and minimal risk and high rewards is the problem.
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