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Post #41That's why they are aiming for legacy features now, they want ppl to test the game. The one that they currently develop and not the one that they have abondoned.
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Nothing will ever be as fun as Rust Legacy, end of :) It's one of the games like Goat Simulator, it is just fucking perfect as it is! :)
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Legacy is simple, ppl like it because of the freedom, you can do whatever you want. Rust 2.0 / reboot version / experimental or as we call it the Active Developement branch will allow ppl to do much more stuff, when they implement all the shit they want. They are (were) testing new fun things, but it's hard to know what are new features the most player like while they are playing legacy or another game.
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Reading the blog, I'm a little confused as to whether Garry is giving FP a C- because of the pace of development and state of the game in 2014, or because he thinks they should have spent more effort on recreating Legacy features. I still think I'd rather see them spend a month or two on pure hardcore optimization, getting closer to Legacy's tightness and responsiveness, getting us off of "Low" graphics settings, getting rid of that feeling of playing Rust while RDP'd into someone else's gaming computer.... than putting in roads and radtowns to attract Legacy players away from Legacy.
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I love rust. I have been here since the browser versions. With that being said, I got bored with legacy. Same map, same strategy, boring old PVP with no purpose other than to crow about getting in a base. No intelligence or fun needed, just lather, rinse, repeat. Boring.
This is not the usual "OMG this or that feature is broken and I want my money back" statement, but if Rust becomes yet another boring PVP game with zombies again, I think I will finally part ways with the game.
I have gotten more than my money's worth from the latest version, and I have fallen in love with the need to survive.
The procedural maps and the added randomness has made the game so much more playable than the mindless banality of the repetitive build base, raid, defend cycle that legacy suffered from. Zombies are yesterday. PVP is better served in games like COD, Battlefield, Counterstrike and so many other PVP games. In Rust it is simply tedious.
I hope they can find a middle ground between the need to profit from yet another PVP game, and the beautiful survival with combat game it has become.
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Kowie : I agree with the seeing the weapons, that is a must hehe.
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The people conplaining about this are the same ones who bitched about legacy, minus the cup boards. Those suck.
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Much respect to Garry for being able to be self-critical on how t(he)y handled the reboot.
I agree with much of the sentiment. I also hope Zombies come back just so I can link to the 200+ posts Elix has made saying that Zombies are never coming back.
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I hope that bunch of offensive AI concept art gets qualified. Fuck off with zombies, there were so much really unique ideas.
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i started rust after the zombies were replaced with rad animals. to me, rad animals represent rust as much as the ubiquitous rock, so i would hate to see them "replaced" with zombies again, or any other random creatures. that said, i trust that things will be tested, and if they work kept, and if they don't scrapped, so i do look forward to what happens from here:)
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I'm glad he finally sees that the legacy version of his game got more hours played than all my games put together for a reason.
I went on to 7 days to get my fix, but I love hearing that he is going to start moving more towards the ideas behind legacy. The original idea, the simplicity, the blueprints, and yes, even the zombies, wasn't a bad thing!
I can't wait.
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Yes. Yes it was a bad thing. It got boring for anyone other than raiders or people who thought it was CoD with Forts.
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Don't understand why people want zombies in a game where radiation is a big thing in the theme of the game. Zombies aren't necessarily mutated creatures, they're just human beings coming back to life (correct me if I'm wrong).
I felt the mutated animals were more fitting due to them living near Rad zones and being mutated by it.. it made more sense. But I also agree the execution of it was poor, they were just normal animals with a different color skin.
Just saying.. I'm thinking a mutated human-like creature that doesn't look too much like a human nor an animal nor a drone (as other people suggested which doesn't make much sense to me either).
Sorry if this is kinda off-topic due to it not really being a focus point of DevBlog 40
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Zombies were a stopgap.
The animals models were a stopgap.
The map was a stopgap.
The modern weapons were a stopgap.
The modern armor was a stopgap.
The building system was a stopgap.
The AI was a stopgap.
Replacing zombies with red animals was a stopgap.
Everything you loved about Legacy was a stopgap.
I agree that the playability of the reboot could have been handled better, but 1:1 stopgap fest wouldn't have done anything but piss people off more when it got replaced in reboot.
http://playrust.com/friday-devblog-6/
The animals models have been replaced.
The map hap been replaced.
The weapons have been replaced.
The armor has been replaced.
The building has been replaced.
The AI has been replaced.
Adding new stopgaps to make the game playable is a mistake.
The cupboard system continues to be a problem. Time is wasted on maintaining a system that probably will be replaced at some point.
And now you are entertaining the notion of bringing back zombies? Why?
The gameplay in Legacy was born out of a unique set of circumstances. Unless you correctly identify what those circumstances were, you will just be shotgunning in hopes of getting the right mix back. Instead, you should make some concise decisions of how you think the game should be played and make the necessary steps to creating that gameplay, rather than to attempt to rekindle the success of Legacy.
There isn't enough data to back up the notion that people played legacy because of any specific reason. Nor is there enough data to back up why people left.
Rust is on an upward trend right now. Let it grow organically.
Keep on working at the game play. And no more stopgaps.
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I disagree not every single person wants to be forced in that game mode of having to play a bad guy and DMing/KOSing every thing in sight regardless of what kind of threat other players are, it would imo add far deeper better game play/player interactions to the game if players were able to assess what kind of threat they are to each other and then make their own moral/tactical choices on what to do.
Nothing wrong with KOS's but personally myself i prefer to have a good reason for doing it not just because "if i don't that guy might pull a m4 out his arse any second and shoot me", thats just lame gameplay mechanics.
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I think we actually are agreeing. :)
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I agree with what Gary said. I have put some time into the new rust and came away thinking wtf? Legacy is awesome. It was awesome on release day and it is awesome now.
I wished he would have just 1:1 legacy and right now I'd be playing a most awesome game. Instead i'm playing a very good game that is lacking updates (legacy and ignoring their new game all together.
Hell...after this latest run I've had in rust I might just be done for good.
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Yep. Not as much as all my other games put together, but it's number 1 on my most played games. Most of that time was spent in Legacy.
I don't play Legacy any more, because I played it to death - I think I switched to Experimental around the 700 hours mark. If it weren't for the new maps I probably would be done with it. But imagining an Experimental version as crisp as Legacy - it would be better I think.
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I don't see it as a mistake. You're going to be reworking pretty much everything anyway just to change engines. It would have doubled the work in the long run, and we've still got the playability of legacy in legacy.
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considering how stock Unity Garry claims legacy is, I am surprised there isn't more of a sense of urgency around FP studios to get out a finished product in a timely manner.
Someone is probably already working on a legacy clone that might end up being more popular than this "new vision of rust"
"I've been aiming at a version of Rust that we were envisioning, so I didn't want to add things like map based radtowns or roads because those are stop-gap solutions and aren't part of the long term plan."- Garry Newman
How long has rust been in an early access alpha? You guys are lagging.
Stop visioning and get to work. Someone might beat you to the face punch.
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"Our launch on Early Access overwhelmed us. It’s awesome that we sold a shitload of copies and got a shitload of players, but it’s not sustainable. We would much rather have slow burned and been a popular game in a year, than had the huge initial spike. The money we made is great but we didn’t particularly need the money for development, and once we sold a million copies a lot of people expected that we’d hire 50 people to make the game in 2 months and the fire them all. This is probably a miss-understanding of what Early Access is (it’s not kickstarter) and why we’re all Game Developers (the fun of developing a game, not the fun of writing pay-cheques)."
Also:
"How long has rust been in an early access alpha? You guys are lagging.
Stop visioning and get to work. Someone might beat you to the face punch."
"I've been aiming at a version of Rust that we were envisioning, so I didn't want to add things like map based radtowns or roads because those are stop-gap solutions and aren't part of the long term plan."- Garry Newman
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OK, you are all just having fun making a game. cool.
Problem is, the game is available to the public, for a price.
You are competing, with many other people, for market share.
I know you like to pretend this isn't important to you, but look at all the money you made that you don't care about! Would it not be the responsible thing to do to hire 50 more people and NOT fire them, so your game can reach the heights your consumers were hoping for?
To say you didn't need the money your customers paid for the game is outrageously arrogant and kind of childish if you ask me, especially considering how much of a mess Gary's game is at the moment.
The fact they downplay the amount of money they made of their early access really shines light on how cocky and blatantly lazy the facepunch team is.
Get to work on finishing your broken game, rating yourself poorly on a devblog is such a wack ass cop out.
If you know you are a shitty game developer (YOU GAVE YOURSELF A C-) then do something about it, don't broadcast how shitty you think you are to the world.
Stop writing devblogs and put that energy into making your game. Figure out what is holding you guys back from finishing the game, or at least making it playable, and fix it.
Its really not that hard, if you guys are truly as passionate about your game as your player base is, there shouldn't be an issue.
You guys still won't release the server files for legacy, or the code for the game, so the community can't even do anything about the state of the game. It's completely asinine.
CA fucked up Rome 2, but the community is there to fix it, at least CA is decent enough to let their community at least ATTEMPT to fix their game.
I dunno, if I was the CEO of FP studios, this game would have been done a long time ago.
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I'm not a facepunch developer, I just quoted them... lol.
But you seem to forget that the game is Alpha and early access, if you don't know what that means, you shouldn't have bought it.
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"its alpha"
what that means to me is
"I'm Garry Newman, Steam has this great thing called early access that I can use to make a lot of money with a cocktease demo, then drop a bunch of acid and vision for about 2 years before I start working on my game again."
I'm not forgetting anything, except the fact that I think the FP dev team is LAZY and doesn't work hard enough on Rust.
I also love how you responded to my thoughtful and well written post with "its alpha"
classy, bro.
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Irony detected!
You clearly don't understand what it takes to develop a game and you clearly don't want to help the development of rust, so I still don't see why you have bought the game.
While for a bigger company with hundreds of professionals working on an AAA title it usually takes 1-2 years to produce a game, a game that follows the rules of success... FP started rust from scratch somewhere around march or something. OMG the game isn't playable yet?!
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Your number of developers aside, the amount of money you've made off of an unfinished game is ridiculous. The lack of updates, playability and anti cheat are all valid gripes with anyone who paid $20 for your SELF PROCLAIMED piece of software garbage.
At least own up to the fact you aren't working as hard as you could be. Gary is basically soft serving us that message with every devblog.
Perhaps he doesn't have the cohones to lead his company and make sure they are performing at their best.
You seem to be content with mediocrity and excuses.
Comparing yourself to CA or EA or SEGA is useless, you CAN however, work to the best of your abilities and NOT berate yourselves by giving yourself a C- on your own blog. It's like you want us to feel sorry for you.
You guys need an office linebacker.
I will punch all of you in the face. I will rip you from you mac, say goodbye to python, pick you up from your hair, punch you IN THE FACE, and shove cash down your throat while screaming "FINISH THE GAME" at the top of my lungs.
Imagine me, the CEO of facepunch studios. Now, finish your game, and make it snappy.
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firstly, the game is available as early access, with all the potential issues that entails. it's not like it has been marketed as a complete game, it's a prototype that just happened to end up on the hype train because people enjoyed it.
secondly, i don't understand your logic that downplaying the need for the money earnt = lazy/cocky developers. they have stated that they had enough funding from g-mod that they didn't need the extra income, and that it was unexpected that so many people would buy it; that doesn't translate to them not working, hell, it borders on chaos theory.
the game is less complete than legacy. i presume you understand the reasons for reboot, so i won't waste either of our time explaining for the nth time why it was done. the point is, legacy had years of work in it, and included stock items from unity. experimental has new models. new concepts. and they admit, and most of us agree that playability should have been a greater focus than introducing new things. over the last few months, playability and fps rates have improved; that's exactly what they are working on right now.
the team has practically doubled in size, and throwing more programmers in the mix has reducing returns.(ooh i finally get to post the quote, 1 second:))
people fired were fired for reasons, and neither you nor i really know enough about the internal dynamics to make any comment on that.
as for the legacy files, it's their call if they release them or not. same with handing the game to another dev team.
as for "if i was the ceo, this game would be done long ago", i get the feeling you have nil insight into your capabilities. i'm not going to bother arguing the point, but i really doubt you would be able to do a fraction of what FP have done. who knows, maybe you are a software development genius. come back when you can prove it and i'll beleive you.
*edit*
btw, he did say it, but just to be clear... balu is not in any way FP staff.
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Also, I think you are very much romanticizing what it takes to make a video game.
It doesn't take skill. It doesn't really anything except a basic knowledge of computer programming and $14.00 an hour, so don't patronize me about "how hard it is to make a video game"
Please.
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Buhahahahah! Man you went to far with your trolling. You exited the realm of simple self serving ignorance and entered the realm of stupidity.
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Look, I love RuST, I just want Legacy 2.0, like alot of other people. Its like giving me a test drive of a hoverboard then giving me a mini cooper. like WTF
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I saw that film too.
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It's always funny seeing how devoid of intelligence some people actually are. Or you're just trolling of course.. either way just stfu, ye?
Edited:
Well no probs, just get some basic programming knowledge and get to work, it's easy as fuck after all.
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There is a direct correlation between the popularity (number of people playing Rust on steam) of Rust, and the extreme decrease due to the extreme increase of hackers and the release of new Rust. The most important stop loss measure to keep Rust relevant would be to fast track a 1:1 port of legacy and remove hackers. We are not talking about 1 or 2 isolated hackers (that is to be expected in all multiplayer games), all legacy servers are full of dozens of hackers making the game unplayable. There is still a chance to bring back that early Rust player base. However, that chance is waning.
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Wow, now THAT is insulting. Lets get something straight here, you need alot more than "basic knowledge" to program anything.
The average game developer makes $83,000 per year (that is $39.90 per hour for those of you playing at home). That is a far cry from the $14.00 per hour ($29,000 per year) you claim.
Your newly acquired staff now costs $4,150,000 per year. On top of the approximate $2,075,000 you are already paying the 25 staff members that exist.
Now you have to triple your office space... ~88.72 per sqft. Probably 3/4 the staff works at the office the others telecommute. So you need about 100 sqft per person. Your new office costs ~$505,704 per month ($6,068,448 per year) plus other goodies like electricity, internet and anything else I might have missed.
I am not sure how much that would cost, so lets's guess a bit. Comcast has packages for 10 users for 240, you have 57 employees so 240 * 6. $17,280 per year in internet and probably similar for electricity.
So the company is making ~1,571,428.57 per year (before taxes) pre-rust. They had half the staff they have now, let along the extra 50 you just hired. You are now spending 8x last years revenue ($12328008)
Rust may have netted $+30 mil, but FP saw less than half. minus taxes. So now you have $+15 mil in the bank, Rust sales have plateaued. Probably similar to Gmod. So you ran really only bank on about $3,142,857.14 before taxes each year, but you are hemorrhaging 2x that with your new staff. You have maybe 2 years before you have to cut your staff in half to keep the doors open.
Good job. If you were CEO, you would have bankrupted yourself.
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Karma let's go make a new studio and we can beat facepunch to completing their own game. You clearly know what the fuck you're talking about, so I'll let you be CEO while I snort the mountains of cocaine. Then we can let the minimum wage monkeys finish the game for us in a month and rake in even more cocaine money! It's SO SIMPLE
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Its been a long time since old catgut made his opinion known on rust.
legacy was fun! but treading backwards is not going to make people any happier.
they wanted progress as far back as day 1. they wanted a map that was rich with exploration. not the same grassy/snowy/sandy hill they have seen way to many times.
They wanted old world buildings to explore. caves with bat guano all over the floor to step in. they wanted more than just pvp they wanted a environment with more than just players. zombies were ok but i am sure you can do better.
when it comes to building in legacy you needed explosives that were hard to get. which kinda made the game into the haves and the have nots. no one wants to be the nots. the dev team tried to balance this with making all buildings destruct able with a given number a noob sacks. Thus chaos was born. with no defenses this just meant you were wasting your time building that beautiful summer house you have always wanted. do i have the solution to balance this out. no sir i do not.
So in closing to you all (devs and gary) i have no idea what to do either.
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Catgut, WTF is your forum avatar?
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It's a certain part of a familiar naked bald guy, of course.
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While we're still on the topic of new content, was the patrol helicopter ever heard of again once the model was finished?
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Their doing this to make something that's easier to work on and expand than what it currently is.
Edited:
Their doing this to make something that's easier to work on and expand than what it currently is.
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