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Devblog 38
New (old) clothes have been packaged, shipped, and delivered from Legacy.
Vince has been working on one of the wooden building skins.
Update includes:
- New (old) clothes as seen above
- Animals have metabolism and acknowledge other animals. We finally get to see wolfs chasing chickens and killing them!
- Mindmap instead of Roadmap
- Stability System Fixed, buildings no longer fall down so easily
- Network Optimization
- Hit Detection Fixed
Continue reading →
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Booo!....have to wait until at least mid next week. Oh well...looks like a bunch of great updates!
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This looks like a great round of updates! Can't wait to try it out tonight.
Don't know if this was the planned direction, but it looks like FP is really responding to player feedback about tightening up the current build of the game to reach a semi-stable baseline.
However, whether it was or not, THANK YOU!!
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You know there is a reason they disabled comments on play rust . com. It seems to me that Garry is becoming more rude with each Dev blog that passes. You can feel his lack of care in the comments.
In this last Dev Blog he states that "People are constantly asking for a roadmap for Rust. ...I don’t want us to feel tied down to features and timescale. ...we’re not a game factory – we don’t need that kind of pressure."
This kinda attitude is exactly why i wont be playing. We as a community fell in love with the game that included a map, a town and a certain type of gameplay. I love the new graphics but just because You updated your engine doesn't give you the right to change our game.
Forget about changing your game against the communities wishes, with each Devblog I read Garry is becoming more insulting.
My brother, 5 friends, and I have stoped playing Rust just because of the direction your going. I'm sure many others feel the same way.
I'm Glad Garry Made a lot of money and feels like this is his game and he can do whatever he wants. As a matter of fact it is his game and he CAN do whatever he likes... I just wont be apart of it anymore.
Hash Tag; First and last Early Access. Thanks Garry!
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Via Devblog 35:
garry posted:
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rustrager, I am glad to hear that you have discovered you can't handle Early Access. Kudos.
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Nice progress, Looking at the pic of the leather dude with the old red hoody, boots and jeans makes it that little bit more like Legacy IMO
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Fix the dupers OMG this other stuff is meaninglesss garbage...
(User was banned for this post ("welcome to alpha testing" - Orkel))
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I thought the most awesome thing was the AI interaction of the NPCS. I hope they even push it further down the line with how offspring would effect the habitat.
Example, he listed all the bears ate all other animals. Thus, the bears would die off. If the other animals had offspring, only some of the bears would have. A whole ecological subsystem. One where like if a player cuts down a forest, the food for bears and wolves (and players) dries up so they all start attacking one another for subsistence.
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He kind of has a point
"People are constantly asking for a roadmap for Rust. I’m not a fan of the traditional roadmap. I don’t want us to feel tied down to features and timescale. We’re hobbyists at heart – we’re not a game factory – we don’t need that kind of pressure."
He's treating this as a "hobby" rather than a business. If he wants to create games as a "hobby", then he shouldn't be asking for people to fund that hobby.
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Garry never asked us to fund it. he gave us the option to follow the development of the game and we chose to pay now for the product when it is finished(how ever long that takes), We were never asked in fact we were warned of all the pitfalls before we paid to follow development in both the disclaimer and the early access information.
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and to be fair, we have already paid up front for that right. it's not like we are paying him $20 a month while he develops the game, we paid a one off access fee for a game in development.
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Basic question...don't hate
When there is an update "client side" do we have to update our servers?
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yes although quite a lot of the time you don't need to wipe, but with the next main branch update i know all server will need a wipe.
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No, he's not treating it as a "hobby", he's rejecting the Ubisoft mentality of shitting out substandard products on an annual basis in order to rake in money from franchise fans who'll buy anything with the series name on it.
And that's mentality he'd have to adopt in order to satisfy some of the people around here. And those people will need to deal with it, because FP Studios is a game studio without a publisher forcing them to work to a deadline set in stone. You get a much better result if you let professionals do the job you hired them to do without putting unnecessary pressure and requiring tons of overtime.
The Rust devs have to continue to do productive work or else they won't be working at the studio for long, but there's a difference between making sure everyone is working and not slacking off, and cracking the whip on someone to finish two months of work in five weeks.
There's also the additional fact that, in alpha, this is where you want to explore with features and really try everything you want to do (if it's not insane), before the design is locked in and adding new things threatens to break everything that's locked in. A day of prototyping and experimentation now will save weeks of scrambled work a year from now.
Trying to set firm deadlines or guarantee a list of features is unnecessarily restrictive, at this stage, because garry isn't making the next in a series of formulaic military shooters, he's creating a survival-building sandbox game that will depend heavily on players to construct their own solutions to challenges. It's not something that has a lot of existing templates to rely on; Rust is doing some new things and the path isn't always clear.
If you prefer Ubisoft's style, you could always sign up for Assassins' Creed: Unity's public beta, only $59.99 ($69.99 in Canada--the country it was made in) on Steam.
Did someone force you to buy Rust at gunpoint? If not, I don't see where you get off blaming garry for your decision to spend money. Especially when you have to get past this to reach the Add to Cart button:
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I tend to wipe everyday, it's a must or it tends to get a little sticky and cramped.
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I wasn't asking about a wipe... I was asking if there is an update that needs to be uploaded to my server when there is an update client side
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Yes.
as i put in the first post to you
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Thanks...just encountered fall damage...Never seen it since playing experimental for almost a month
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Yeah, yeah yeah...we get it elix...you go off on your tangents that have absolutely nothing to do with the comment at hand.No, he's not treating it as a "hobby", he's rejecting the Ubisoft mentality of shitting out substandard products on an annual basis in order to rake in money from franchise fans who'll buy anything with the series name on it.
And that's mentality he'd have to adopt in order to satisfy some of the people around here. And those people will need to deal with it, because FP Studios is a game studio without a publisher forcing them to work to a deadline set in stone. You get a much better result if you let professionals do the job you hired them to do without putting unnecessary pressure and requiring tons of overtime.
The Rust devs have to continue to do productive work or else they won't be working at the studio for long, but there's a difference between making sure everyone is working and not slacking off, and cracking the whip on someone to finish two months of work in five weeks.
There's also the additional fact that, in alpha, this is where you want to explore with features and really try everything you want to do (if it's not insane), before the design is locked in and adding new things threatens to break everything that's locked in. A day of prototyping and experimentation now will save weeks of scrambled work a year from now.
Trying to set firm deadlines or guarantee a list of features is unnecessarily restrictive, at this stage, because garry isn't making the next in a series of formulaic military shooters, he's creating a survival-building sandbox game that will depend heavily on players to construct their own solutions to challenges. It's not something that has a lot of existing templates to rely on; Rust is doing some new things and the path isn't always clear.
If you prefer Ubisoft's style, you could always sign up for Assassins' Creed: Unity's public beta, only $59.99 ($69.99 in Canada--the country it was made in) on Steam.
Did someone force you to buy Rust at gunpoint? If not, I don't see where you get off blaming garry for your decision to spend money. Especially when you have to get past this to reach the Add to Cart button:
We all know what early access stands for. You can quit spamming that in the majority of your posts. You seem to fail to comprehend the issue at hand. Sure, I can spell it out for you in plain English, but your blind faith in FP will still obscure that.
Fact: It was put on Steam in order to garner money.
Once you accept people's money to produce a product, it shouldn't be treated as a "hobby".
I guarantee that if Garry put the disclaimer "We will accept your money for the game, but will treat the creation of this game as a hobby", a huge portion would not have bought it. I would have been one of them. I'm not into funding people's hobby. I'm into funding start up companies that don't have the capital to produce a game and expand their company.
"We’re hobbyists at heart – we’re not a game factory – we don’t need that kind of pressure."
Ok, elix. Just ignore Garry's own words. Now go ahead and reply by squeezing another meaning out of Garry's own words that doesn't exist. The fact is, Garry is treating this as a hobby (his own words) and that's fine. He just needs to put a disclaimer on the store page so people who aren't expecting to fund a hobby don't have to.
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Oh boy, I hope the next thing I write isn't a direct quote from garry proving your "fact" is full of shit...
http://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/com...bn4e?context=3
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/commen...z852?context=3
I am pretty sure he said "hobbyists at heart", not "we treat the game as a hobby."
If he said "we're kids at heart", do you think it would mean they are programming like 6 year olds?
Early access isn't kickstarter, and Facepunch isn't an startup. If that's what you thought this was, you were very wrong.
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You don't like the direction of the game? Fine say something. You have some suggestions for game play improvements? Great! Let everyone know. You feel like you got ripped off and cheated? Sucks, but you can come on here and whine about it.
But stop nitpicking every damn word like it has some kind of hidden meaning that proves your uninformed opinion. When a creative person says "hobbyists at heart" it only means they love what they do, have a passion for it, and don't feel like they're just cranking out drudgery every day.
A hobbyist at heart is what you want in a game developer!
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One thing Rustrager is right about; we fell in love with legacy Rust when it came out and this has earned them (apart from a shitton of money) a big reasonably big Rust community, a lot of knowledge on the game's concept and which things worked, which things didn't.
I mean of course this was all before all the cheaters exploits and other trash that came to exist, caused by.. I guess the unexpected enormous player base it suddenly got and the fact that the way the game was constructed and coded couldn't really handle all this in terms of frequently updating to fix the issues to satisfy this player base.. We all realize why they started a new Rust from scratch (except a few ignorant kiddos).
Anyway; they got a lot of aspects right with legacy Rust!
I just hope Garry and his team doesn't forget the good things about legacy, the things that worked and definitely will work in the new Rust as well.
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You registered in January, so you might not be aware of Rust's pre-Steam history. Stay awhile, and listen...
Prior to last summer, Rust was basically unknown outside of FP. The Rust subforum was originally hidden from view and you needed to know how to get into it. The forum was made visible eventually as knowledge of the project began to spread through FP. In June 2013, someone from Facepunch told Reddit about Rust. Reddit saw a cross between DayZ and Minecraft and went completely nuts, and the hype train began. People assumed, from the screenshots, that Rust was far further along in development than it actually was. The fact that keys were very limited meant that few people coming in could actually play Rust and see that legacy was very early in and had a long way to go, so the hype and expectations kept building and spreading when the game frankly didn't deserve it yet. (Whether it deserves it now is not relevant here.)
The forums became bombarded with traffic as everyone went insane for Rust. Thousands of people were viewing the Rust subforum simultaneously for months (it'd only dwindle down to <250 simultaneous in the middle of the night). Thousands of threads were made to beg for alpha keys to the webplayer version of Rust . They began to make a mess of other parts of the forum and generally became a massive nuisance--the community was disrupted by a heavy stream of idiots, many obviously children, posting anywhere they wanted in hopes of receiving a Rust key even after garry stopped handing them out.
If you don't believe me, dig back 500 pages in the Rust subforum. I'm simplifying events but it's all there in the archive (except for threads that were deleted or DDT'd).
garry had been giving out keys to Gold Members periodically in the Gold Members Forum, and someone told the Rust kids about this. This led to tons of new accounts with under 10 posts buying Gold because "you get a Rust key". garry more or less immediately stopped handing out keys in the gmf, and now nobody can get Gold Membership now (or change other peoples' titles, but that's for a different reason) because of Rust kids and spammers abusing it.
I'm pretty sure at least one person reversed the charges for Gold (it was all of $5) on garry when they got banned for being a begging nuisance that was only here for a Rust key, and Paypal doesn't like to see payment reversals and punishes merchants for them.
Two months after all key distribution stopped, the forums were still being flooded by beggars. garry built a Dutch key auction that would allow him to put up certain numbers of keys and allow everyone a fair chance at them, because getting a key was now based on money, not buying Gold and refreshing a thread in the gmf until garry updated it with more. This allowed garry to control the release of keys based on the capacity of the one test server to support enough people online at once. If everyone had gotten a key, the server would've fallen over as 5,000 people tried to play.
Even the key auctions didn't stop the begging traffic, not even when garry was putting up 250 keys a day and they weren't all being bought up by the end of the day (even for $5). Thread after thread kept being posted, asking if/when Rust was coming to Steam. Everyone wanted Rust on Steam, and having Rust on Steam had an additional, major benefit: In order to be on Steam, Rust would need to go from running inside a webplayer plugin to a standalone executable. This was awesome in several ways, including not having to redownload the entire game every time you loaded it.
The key auctions were a stopgap until garry was able to get legacy into standalone form. Finally, Rust was posted to Steam. Since then, over two million people have purchased it.
garry never wanted Rust to become this popular this early, because coding in a spotlight is nerve-wracking. Look at Notch and what happened to Minecraft. Being the center of attention and having to satisfy 20 million plus demanding players on an ongoing basis ruined his marriage and caused him to bail out and sell Mojang to Microsoft so that he could go back to being an indie dev that prototypes games and occasionally makes one that's popular and fun. This forum is full of negative threads by people with high expectations demanding garry finish Rust faster, or change it in some way to accomodate them (usually by adding a friends list, an automap, or watering down some feature that's core to Rust), and if you read garry's devblogs it has definitely had an impact on him.
Putting Rust on Steam wasn't about the money. It was about unrelenting popular demand. And two million sales is the best proof of this demand. All without once going on discount sale or offering multi-packs to get your friends in the game. People have asked for these many times, and garry's response is always "We don't want to advertise the game in its current unfinished, rough state."
If it wouldn't have wrecked the forum community from the flood of key newbs (someone seriously made a thread begging for a Rust key in the exercise and fitness subforum), I think garry would've preferred to hand keys out according to his pace, which I doubt would've included a Steam release while legacy was in alpha.
If you'd like to argue that it actually is about the money, you're going to have to do a lot more substantiation than simply asserting that it is a fact and proceeding as if that makes it so.
And, I'm not ignoring garry's words, I'm interpreting what they mean as far as FP Studios' development philosophy is.
Dwarf Fortress is being built by one man (with help from his brother) and it's going to probably take him the next 20 years of his life to finish it. It is what he does full-time. His income is entirely based on donations from DF players -- crowdfunding. I don't think it's appropriate to call ToadyOne's project a "hobby", but Dwarf Fortress is being developed by one person with a passion, and that's closer to a "hobby" development methodology than the "factory" methodology we see in big AAA-tier studios like Ubisoft, EA, and Activision. Rust is being developed to be a good game, not to ensure good third-quarter earnings to satisfy shareholders. To that end, garry's priorities are quality and good ideas/design, not rushing for release.
When it comes to game development, you get to pick up to two: fast, good, cheap. AC: Unity left out 'good' and is now four patches into a $59.99 public beta that they have basically been forced to admit (without actually saying it) that they released far too early. I'd prefer the "hobby" style over a development philosophy that produces bug-ridden shit on an annual cycle.
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Thanks for that background Elix, interesting read for someone that only jumped on late January of this year..
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"We never asked for money, it was NEVER marketed as "please fund our game".
Then don't do early access.............................
"Putting Rust on Steam wasn't about the money. It was about unrelenting popular demand."
You can say that all you want and believe it all you want, but there's a simple solution if that's truly the reason: don't put it on Steam.
Edited:
Apparently you haven't read the early access that elix keeps spamming. It clearly states:
We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community. There have been a number of prominent titles that have embraced this model of development recently and found a lot of value in the process. We like to support and encourage developers who want to ship early, involve customers, and build lasting relationships that help everyone make better games.
So, you claim that buying an EA game only gives you the right to "follow" development, but it's expressed right in elix's spam that consumers should be giving input and shape the future of the game. If you guys can't handle dissenting opinions and displeasure with the way the game is going, then you guys are actually the one's that can't comprehend what EA is.
I'm actually pleased with development and the direction. I'd like to see some changes, but overall I'm happy. However, you guys are just too enamored with FP that ANY dissenting opinion is seen as an attack.
I want them to enjoy developing games. I want everyone to have a job doing what they love. But the fact is, rustrager (the only reason I jumped into the conversation) still has a point: you can't ask for money (which they did via EA) and then still treat development as a hobby.
They've done a shit ton of content. They've worked their asses off. Concept art is amazing. What's not amazing is you fanbois jumping on anyone's dick that has a dissenting opinion (which I must stress again IS part of EA).
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You're still misinterpreting the whole "hobbyist at heart". I'm not gonna explain, many people did and you're straight up ignoring it.
The criticism rustrager had was mainly criticism that's completely misplaced and keeps being repeated by people that don't do their own research on where the game is heading and in rustrager's case WHY THERE'S NO MAP.
That's just really annoying.
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You are running this conversation in circles. Putting it on early access allows developers to accomplish broad range stress testing, even more so with a game that includes full Steamworks integration. I don't think anyone is moderating your opinion on the game itself, but saying the game was released on early access just for money is a very ignorant thing to say.
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This thread is everything you need to know about why I don't write long, comprehensive, thoughtful responses like that all the time. Every time, I write a thorough and courteous explanation, and the moron I'm trying to get through to just blows me off.
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early access can be used to generate funding, but it is not only used to generate funding for the completion of a game. in this case, it was respecting the interests of the public to be able to play and follow the development.
the price was/is minimal when compared to other early access titles, which are priced as if they were complete games; some of them cost $60-80 AUS for a game that hasn't and may never be completed. in the case of those titles i can appreciate getting frustrated by a hobbiest attitude by the developers, or slow progress. but in this case, all we have paid for is access, not stocks in the company. they are listening to our requests, but in the end, it's their game and they can do whatever they want with it; we really haven't paid enough to whinge that it is taking to long, or that they are doing it wrong.
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Bookmark the post to send people that way in the future. It was a good post.
Only thing I would (jokingly) bring up is the Fast, Good, Cheap claim.
I know Rust is Good, but which of the other two categories does it fall into?
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cheap:)
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"Cheap" is relatively speaking, of course. A game project that employs 20+ developers isn't "cheap", but trading cheap for fast would require 10x as much in spending as garry hires as many of the best of the best he can find (because we're keeping "good") in order to get Rust finished faster.
Or he could trade good for fast and spit out Infection: Rusty Stories like it was a Sergey Titov production.
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Lets get something straight, you brought up the hobbyist quote, not rustrager. Infact, if you reread his post, he purposefully omitted that part. It was you who brought it up.
I still don't see how you are misunderstanding the statement "hobbyists at heart". You are so hung up on them "treating it as a hobby". Maybe you don't actually know what the word hobby means?
hobby - noun
1. an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure
All this is supposed to mean is to them program is fun, and being tied down to timelines would make it feel like a choir.
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No, actually it's not. Your "thoughtful" response, while wordy, was completely ignorant. You deny the fact that it was put on Steam to garner money. You keep claiming it was due to pressure. You and Garry can say that it was due to pressure all he wants, but that ignores the fact of free will. It's funny. You made a comment in a different post that no one "put a gun to my head and forced me to buy it". Using YOUR own logic: no one put a gun to Garry's head and forced him to put it on Steam. Oh, that's right! You only use your logic when it fits your opinion.
There's 1 reason and 1 reason only to put it on Steam: To get money.
Your logic is just utterly stupid. So EVERY company that has beggars should be peddling out a product early to appease those beggars? How stupid is that?? You must have missed all of the demand for a PC version of GTAV over the past year and a half. There are so many titles that people beg for from large or small companies.
I must keep reiterating what I've stated numerous times: I'm happy with the product thus far. I'm happy with development for the most part. The only reason this argument is occurring is due to a dissenting opinion from a forum member that I basically said "he has a point". It was all downhill from there once the white knights saw that.
Edited:
Posting the definition of hobby definitely doesn't help your argument. Are you implying that FP is only working on Rust in their leisure time?? I'm shocked that you have such a negative opinion on them!! You better watch out for those incoming white knights!
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i thought it was impossible for logic to be stupid.
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Some christian's believe the devil planted dinosaur bones in the ground. That's their logic for how dinosaurs got here due to the earth's young age of 6k years. That seems pretty stupid to me.
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Where is anti-cheat in that MindMap priority list?
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It's only stupid because you choose believe it to be, therefore you, by your own logic are as stupid as those whom you say are stupid for their belief in the devil and bones theory.
Winner x 1
Agree x 1
Dumb x 20
Artistic x 1
Funny x 1
Zing x 4
Late x 1
Useful x 1
Disagree x 2
Informative x 4
