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Post #1
I did read about that cabinets that pevents other players from building (why? because it's magic!) are not forever, but i missed other thing - they will be swapped with other shit that will do magic barriers on building, or they will be removed at all (with all those crappy magic mechanics) once building system will be back to normal?
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Any suggestions as to what should replace the cupboard to stop grief on bases ?
Sadly the cupboard or something like it is needed within rust other wise a people would just get a few trees worth of wood and barricade your base. I don't like this system either i would prefer something within the realms of reality but despite hours of musing over the problem no answer has presented itself to me,
I would love for someone to come up with a plausible solution this does feel like a magic barrier.
P.s Do you ever have anything constructive to say?
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What was bad with legacy system? You can be stupid and let people break your base with their walls, or you can be smart and place pillars to prevent them from doing that. And, to be true - nobody needs current building system when you can place walls without pillars, we can just return to old, but working without any magic shit system.
I kinda don't want to play a game when i cannot sabotage houses of the stupid people who have no idea how to build things, it makes gameplay very casual - "i don't know how to plan my house, please, give me magic tool to protect me!".
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the legacy system was ok but restrictive, if you built a base that was difficult to raid on legacy you also stopped yourself from expanding your base, if you left room to expand this could be exploited by griefers, Now with the new version of rust, if you look at the DevMap you will note that farming,cars,boats and flight is in this mean we will need to alter our bases as we progress, we may need to build hangers,garages to house our bigger items, or need to make an open area with walls to grow food, the old system prevented this and would have put a block on some of the new rusts features that might be introduced in the future,
Yes the old system as OK but not as dynamic as this new system could be, this systems mechanics are not perfect but i think it's a step in the right direction.
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Remove the no-build zone, keep the bubble, keep the demolish. Based on testing, it appears the game remembers which cupboard was placed first (or in order), so placing a cupboard right next to someone's house won't allow you to demolish it as long as the original cupboard is still up.
So... you end up eliminating a bad stopgap, make all bases raidable without exploits, and players can use demolish to get through even the most determined griefing in a matter of minutes.
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That is why i am saying "smart people think before build something". And if you stupid, or new to the game - after taking a lesson like this you will build another base, and start with building whole first floor just like you need, and only after you will block building around it.
Or, for the real casual gamers they could just make pillars that can be demolished by the person who created them. That would solve any issue with "i dont think before i build something". Even this kind of casual gameplay will be better, then aoe anti-building shiled on the area, that are not allowing even put door behind you if you blow a wall inside the house.
How the hell solo players supose to raid someone? If they start to loot crates - owners will kill them in process. If they start blowing base in search of cupboard... well, that's a huge waste of resourses in order to place 1 door for protection while looting chests. And if they place cupboard in every room of 5-f 10x10 house...
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OH my fkin god, both method is magic, what are you even debating? The very least thing to be defendable realistically in an apocalyptic world (even while away), would be a medieval fort with 3-4m thick walls, and a gorgeous iron-gate.
Also, without cupboards, walls have to go one way: insane for the builder to destruct, or insanely easy for the attacker to destroy that wall.
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Maybe its because alpha? Or you expect people to have ability to destory any wall with just melee weapons in final version of the game? That would be a game of autoclickers =)
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What's the point of the game now? With 3 guys I can't hatchet my way into a home. I can't build near it thanks to the cupboard and if I manage to get on the roof ( rocks near by or building a huge ramp from a distance ) with the new metal roof I can't get in that way.
You've completely pussyfied the game, if I wanted mine craft that's what I'd play. Unless you're going to give us C4 or someway of raiding this game is just Mine craft with a shit ton of bugs and shitty graphics.
and don't give me the " it might be coming soon" it should have been implemented BEFORE impervious home mods were added.
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Adapt and over come, find a new way to raid we all have the same system, some sort of explosives will be in at some point and raiding will be easier, Only griefing kids are disappointed that this system is in, but REAL players that don't just go on-line for a couple of hour Just to troll don't mind this system, these part time players are the reason for the cupboard they are more interested in annoying players than playing the game they want an easy route to progress,
Part time player "I want to be able to take a base out that took 72 hours to build in 5 minutes, I want everything in the first 10 mins of playing by raiding with 1000 wood or i am gonna cry"
Logic dictates that breaking into a base should take longer than building it. otherwise building a base is obsolete. This is why explosives/raiding should be a time consuming activity and should be dangerous, not a walk in the park with the kids.
If you can't adapt and over come, this games systems maybe become even more taxing for you as they add features.
Oh if you are worried that someone going to kill you while you are raiding "check your 6" it's standard FPS game play, building walls/doors while raiding that's magic, building walls instantly is magic, the games systems are evolving to suit the the new version.
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Hyperbole much?
Who was able to break into a house that took 72 hours to build in only 5 minutes, other than a speed hacker?
It used to take 45 minutes (at best) to get through each lvl6 wall. So unless someone was just a really poor builder, their stuff was relatively safe from everyone except the very patient or hackers. The cupboard was only supposed to prevent griefing. As many have said, they could have implemented the cupboard without the "no build" feature and it would still allow the owner of a house to remove any griefed parts in minutes instead of hours.
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I want to be able to raid a home in a hour with a fellow friend and that's not the case now with the heal rates and the stupid cupboard. As noted by others a lvl 6 wall took 45 min to take down, a lvl 5 30 min to get from 6 to zero was hours.
If I hit a stone was it does 1 point of damage while healing .9 points of damage, do the math that's a crazy amount of time for home thrown up in 15 minutes not your ridiculous time of 72 hours.
I am not sure what homes your making that requires 72 hours of building but anybody can make a 2 story home with 10 min of collecting wood and stone and 10 minutes of build time, that would with stand 3+ hours of single person trying to break in the walls.
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Yes maybe a bit exaggerated LOL But it made a point.
I agreed with the above post on this very thread. and this would stop raiders putting walls up when raiding, they would have to destroy the walls to get back out, if they could not reach your primary tool cupboard and take over the base, seem like a good idea.
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Before the new wall updates I played on many servers where the foundation owner could /remove anything placed on that foundation ( by him or griefers ) and a simple method to stopping them from building walls in front of doors or walls around themselves was to place a single row of foundation ( lvl 6 ) around your home and at anytime you can remove walls that or any item that somebody placed on that foundation.
Better fixes than "the cupboard" were available already. It's turned this game into a Care-bear mine craft POS.
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Like i said it was an exaggerated example. i follow Rust and know the statistics of the weapons (like most of us i have read the json files for the weapons for the old system that was in, not the new system implemented last night on the dev branch)
This was my last biggish build it took hours to harvest the wood alone,
from the other other building system
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Yeah. Keep the cupboard but instead of making a "no build" zone, make a "house ownership" plot which is linked to any attached foundation. Anyone who activates this cupboard is the "owner" and can build or REMOVE parts from any attached foundation. This allows friends to build and remove. Only 1 cupboard should be able to be placed on the plot of foundations.
Honestly, this is a simple solution utilizing the already made cupboard and activation feature.
Edit: this would allow raiders to build onto your base like in legacy, but it would allow you to remove anything they added during their raid. This would also allow them to take over your house if they gained access to your cupboard.
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Yes, and it was. Before. To place one wooden wall in legacy you need... how much? 40 wood? And to destory it you need to get 30 explosives (that is around 200 metal and 400 or even more sulfur), leather and flare. And, ofc, recipe, for both c4 and explosives, that was kinda hard to find.
It is only natural that for huge costs of c4 you was able to build your own door in place of wall that you just destroyed to prevent owners from putting another wall for 40 wood cost and locking you inside.
But now? Now they can do it while they have magic cupboard around.
But seems like you are noob crybaby who was punished for his mistakes in buiding, and most important thing for you - is that in any war people cannot destory your poor designed buildings by adding their own walls or pillars to them. You are just yet another casual gamer, afraid of a real challenge.
Why they should have easy way to remove it? There is 2 ways to defeat enemy - raid them, or sabotage poorly built house. If players suck at building, why waste resorses on raiding them, if you can just block their main door with new room? If they allow you to do this - it is their problem.
Only thing dev's need to do - is give back pillars or any building blockers to replace them. They need to be undestructable both by owners and other players, maybe it will be some kind of totems, for example, or other decorations, that will not allow to build stuff not in area around, but in exact spot where you put it.
Weak players should not survive, stong should eat them, that is only natural.
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Personally I think they are missing out on adding gameplay elements with the cupboard system.
I don't like the cupboards because it is limiting and exploitable. garry has done a good job up until now avoiding adding systems that control gameplay, and probably for good reason. This was terrible execution. There are way better ways at solving the issue, but he kinda put the kibosh on that when he stated: 'the other 5% will write comments that start with “Why not just” and end with “instead?”'
To be honest, I felt personally attacked by that statement... probably because I had already offered an alternative and got shot down. But also, because it basically says "we don't want alternative suggestions".
So I haven't suggested any, even though I have quite a few.
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I think cupboard is a good answer to the greving players but can be made better
Just make things wich are build by a player not on the list of a cupboard within the area decay over time (like 2-3h). this way the attack have enough time to destoy the base from above or make tactical positions to attack
The other thing of base raiding: I think you have to be able to destroy bases as a single player
Destroying a base should cost more resources=time than a wall, you could make a siege weapon (C4?) wich decays after its hitted the Strength of the weakest entry of a base (Wall)+ its Healed HP after destroing it. (does this make sense?^^)
This siege weapon should cost as much resources as (3x Wall + 1xDoor + 1xDoorway 1xFoundation +Roof) as this is a basic room and: Or x10 the duration + recource cost for destroing 10 walls.
With this siege weapon need more time in preperation than time in standing infront of a wall and hitting it.
This way u have to think tiwce to if u raid a base. is it worth using ur resources to destroy it? Is its owner that annoying or the loot in that base good enoth. Maybe you have to observe the enemy to estimate its lootvalue.
But as long as you can build indestructible bases (Building cupboards on a large rock or in midair around the rock wich u can jump on only with a ramp and destroying the ramp after u are on the rock) you can forget the things i wrote above. while if u change the decay system for unauthorized players this exploit is fixed.
Other hints:
-reduce player desync
-respawn timer
-abit easier to find his friends
-Is it still possible to build in rocks?
but thanks to the developers, they approach the target of an playable rust 2.0
Its still not reached but i think they can do it.
regards
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This is the obvious way they should use the cupboards. Easy fix that should please almost everyone except people who want to be unraidable.
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I would agree with that solution except it still allows ass holes to take ownership of your base and destroy everthing in minutes by authorizing then Clicking remove on all the foundations. They walk away from your base as it slowly collapes with no real effort on their part.
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I do that in every base I gain access too, because this system is fucking stupid. I don't care if there isn't a single lootable item. I make sure to decay EVERYTHING .. something I would never go through the effort of if I needed to use C4 or hack down every wall.
Seems the level of greifing is higher once you gain access.
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I like the cupboard because it adds something extra to search for when raiding bases and some creative planning on where to place it. I'd also be fine with just having it lock down whatever was connected to the structure it was placed in. What I'd like to see is the ability to recoup some resources when removing walls.
Currently I build on the edge of the ocean, and I place my cupboard in a 1x1 stone building in deep water. Takes me awhile to place it, but no one can get to it!
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So what your saying is be ause you dont like the system you act like a jerk to total strangers? That mature!
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Actually, if a lot of people will start doing it, more people will complain about this, and the fasther this thing will be removed.
Because breaking house with adding new walls and pillar - was fine punishment for those who are thinking poorly about their house planning, but destroying whole house because raiders got to the cupboard? That is too much, and not requires any type of resourses, when usual sabotaging needs you to create walls, doors, pillars, cellings...
Sabotaging houses was a big and one of the most interesting part of gameplay, when you was searching for weak points of the house, and was thinking "what could i build to make owners of this one to go away?". And now... now you just pressing "deconstuct" on everything. No fun in this.
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I'm fine with having my house obliterated. If I get raided badly I usually move and build somewhere else anyways.
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Good to see another one of these threads is getting 10x as many posts and threads that actually matter and help the team. Those of you perpetuating this crap know who you are.
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the cupboard was a stop-gap fix to allow people to continue playtesting.
in reality, i think the whole thing should be removed, because the balance should be enough that if you are boxed into your base with a wall in front of your doorway, you just break your way out. everything should be breakable, that way raids can happen, and players can escape from traps. a cupboard that creates an exclusion zone just makes the game artificially safe, and the destroy function is way too prone to abuse.
that said, i like the current build system to a degree. i don't like that the rock cannot break anything greater than wood, it should just take ages with heaps of health. probably the only way i can see sorting that out is to remove self healing on the building parts. i like the self building, but i think self healing causes more issues than it fixes (ie needing a destroy ability to easily overwhelm the wall healing itself, and stopping particular weapons from actually affecting the wall), including the need for the cupboards at all.
http://support.facepunchstudios.com/...greater-health
i've made a suggestion post if anyone cares to upvote it or comment.
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Why not have doors that do the same thing as the cupboard does now but in a smaller radius or say 10 building blocks in front and behind the door. at least people wont be barricaded in their base but they can still get raided by people coming over/through walls
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The new building system, in my opinion, solved an artificial problem: a lot was required to build.
the reason I call this problem artificial is because of the constant server wipes and keys being added. people ended up building, getting raided, building, getting raided, building, wipe, repeat
Due to this artificially increased frequency, building become cumbersome. The new system is the polar opposite, and I have a feeling that once the average server life is more than a week it will feel like building is too quick.
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I am pretty sure the cupboard is staying. On one form or another
https://trello.com/c/LxYegsEh/26-tool-cupboard
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Well, then at least we do not have to check on this game uptades anymore, at least before we will hear that is gone away from rewarding casual players, who want to play some kind of minecraft with safe zones.
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Well said and pretty right...if only we were talking about something natural.
Some players have hords of ingame friends, others must play alone.
Some are willing to spend endless hours mouseclicking, others do it only in their sparetime.
But most important: An experienced and skilled player with a kick-ass computer providing 99 FPS still stands chanceless against raiding addicted players that joined a server just a couple of days earlier than him. It's like a caveman against a fully equipped soldier on steroids. Who is "weak" and who is "strong"?
In nature, there is a god making things happen in ways not everyone can explain.
In Rust, there are developers that created a "magic cupboard" as you call it...made to give noobs, part time gamers and server-newbies a chance.
And of course to make self named "server killers" job a bit harder.
Hope that the toilet model shown at trello will be implemented soon. Hate having to piss in the forest while chicken and bears stare at my wiener laughing^^
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This is a very easy question. I played on official server for 6 months, there was no admins or protections, so server was full of cheaters, if you go to any populated area - you would die from their aoe killing cheat, or see somebody flying around, and other stuff like that. In that server - survived only 2 types of people, who was not using cheats:
1) Big groups, who was able to build big bases with ease and hunt on smaller groups and single players, if cheaters destory them - they just build another base very fast.
2) Smart people, like me, and one friend that i found on that server. We don't go to the populated areas, we don't build our houses in front of big gropus. We hide, sneak, scout, find weak places, raid them with protection (building own rooms inside the house), and only then use that resourses to build our own big bases, that cheaters could never raid (they tried on my base 5 times, last time they used more then 80c4 and still got almost nothing).
And how do we defeat big groups and cheaters? And here i will tell you the definition between weak and strong. Actually, strong players is smart ones, who understand how game works and what they can do with it. Weak players depend only on their numbers, cheats, or shooting skills, without using brains. There was a two wasy to defeat them:
1) Scout, follow them to their house (may take a days to complete), look trough gaps, calculate room with loot, raid (if they are cheaters - wait for them to go offline first). Was good raiding cheaters - most of them was incredibly stupid, they big huge bases, but left holes in deffence that could be easily used for raids. For example, i got to the last floor of a big house just because i built shelter on the rock nearby, jump on it with crate, and blow a wall from that position.
2) Sabotage their houses. Why i need to raid my enemies, if they so much retarded to build huge tower with only two exists, and didn't even block it with pillars? I just build walls and celling around - and they cannot leave or enter base anymore, not without c4. Or destroy stairs and build celling - all upper floors are blocked forever! This, and many other methods of sabotage - i found the perfect and most interesting way (better then blowing walls, because it needs from you to find weaknesses in their deffence) to deal with your enemies in this game.
So, the answer to your question - weak players is stupid players, they can have numbers, reflexes, expirience, even cheats - but still make a stupid choices were easy defeated by a single players. Seriously, for all time i played on that server alone - not a single guy (or group, or group of cheaters) was not able to raid all of my rooms, take all of my stuff, and i, sometimes alone, rarely - with help of a friend destroyed everyone in huge area around my house, only decaying ruins was there.
Your main strength - is your brains, that will help you defeat enemies better then anything else. And now... now they are making game for the people who cannot use their brain properly, so they need magic shields that prevents sabotaging, map to find each other, locks on crates (to make raiding less profitable), and else. I will be not surprised if they will announce pvp-free zones next.
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1. These are systems are still being created, refined and tested. Nothing about them is certain.
2. Who are you to say what Rust's target audience has to be?
3. And no matter who you think that audience is, you're wrong. FP's philosophy regarding Rust can be found pretty easily on Google, and it's not fluffy bunnies. They're trying to find a fair way to adjudicate things, but it's a tricky balance to walk. Testing is necessary for that process.
4. Why don't you spend less time crying like a baby with a soiled diaper and more time coming up with solutions? Seriously, everything you post is just a waste of our time and yours.
Edited:
First of all, it's hilarious to hear you call yourself a smart person. You obviously have autism. Secondly, you are saying you beat big groups by following them to their homes and griefing them. That's not really 'beating' them, is it? The goal is to get their stuff, not just ruin their base, right? Nothing you've mentioned is novel. How is that impressive, and how does it make you a strong player and others weak? Also, there's not really many houses you can just build random walls on to that would keep them stuck inside. That's why most homes had mid-pillars.
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Smart People adapt to the new and overcome obstetrical put in their way, TBH you are starting to sound like a player who after finding a way of playing rust that he was good and could get a foot hold on a server, is now crying because he can't think of any other ways to play.
Prov3rbial Hits the nail on the head :)
I'm outta this thread it's getting to silly.
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A no building zone isn't the solution. I'd just make a 1x1 3 story building and be set forever. I'd put doors an all sides and place it on a small rock, break the stairs to the rock and then break the stairs to my first floor. Bam. Unraidable. A better solution that was shot down by Garry for some unknown reason would be this:
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1441421
It still utilizes the cupboard and activation mechanics already in game, but the end result is different.
"I think it would be great to rework the mechanics a bit. Keep the cupboard and activation mechanic. Tweak the solution, though. Instead of making a "no build" zone, make a "house ownership plot" which is linked to any attached foundation. Anyone who activates this cupboard is the "owner" and can build or REMOVE parts from any attached foundation. This allows friends to build and remove. Only 1 cupboard should be able to be placed on a plot of foundations. This would allow raiders to build onto your base to find weak spots, but it would allow you to remove anything they added during their raid. This would also allow them to take over your house if they gained access to your cupboard. This would also prevent the asshat griefers.
Because the "house ownership plot" is linked to any attached foundation, other's are still allowed to build their own base close to your base. Just make sure you have that cupboard down, or they'll take over your base!"
This is such a simple and obvious solution that utilizes mechanics already in game.
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The goal is to defeat enemy, make them lose stuff, so they will have no guns and ammo to shot me, and would probably get away from my house, my land around it, and live elswere, and will not cause troubles when i farm or just move around. Raiding is only for situations when target are rich or VERY annoying, otherwise its just waste of resourses.
Stupid people wasting every bullet and c4 on most obvious way to fight, smart people finding another solutions to deal with stupid opponents (yes, i think that smart opponents will not allow to block their house).
Smart people can see difference between obstacle and global gameplay change. If my favorite mechanics is no longer in game, why i need to force myself to play game that i do not like? Now you sound really stupid with saying things like "play whatever they thow on you".
Things are very simple - i didnt like the current gameplay, i am not playing, that's all. When things will change back - then i will come back.
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So your leaving an alpha testing situation until you get things your way lol sounds about right for a twelve year old. I think the theory of "play whatever they throw at you" is our job at this point in devlopment, if you dont like that dont play early access games. I find it i teresting how people are so self absorbed that if things are not exactly as they think meet their final expectations of the game then they get all upset and try to justify their feelings by building cases around old game play styles and their preferred strategies. If you cant overcome a few temporary setbacks (yes temporary as everyhing is subject to change) then you had best stick with final release games.
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Good advice, you should follow it, how about some fixes and not insults as you seem to have all the answers??
Edited:
They already have mods that allow anything to be removed on a foundation you place down. If modder's can make this why can't developers?
Dumb x 8
Funny x 4
Friendly x 1
Agree x 1
Winner x 2
Disagree x 1
Useful x 1
Artistic x 1
Informative x 1
Optimistic x 1
