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Post #1
I understand completely that Garry wants to release his new construction process in stages. But if this update only consists of two levels of walls in the tier system, I fail to see why we should build at all.
Level 1 wooden walls can be broken in about 30 seconds. Level 2 in about 90 seconds. You cannot stack walls to make it effective unless you put down a football fields worth of foundations. I really do hope a hierarchy of metal walls is added in the night. If not, then I am just going to run around spearing people, dropping the loot, eventually dieing, rinse and repeat -- Until next Friday.
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Oh god, I really hope these changes get added soon too. The world of Rust would be in complete ruin with some guy running around with a spear throwing away loot. Definitely more productive than testing limits or bugs for the new system. We'd better listen to this guy and do everything he says.
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Yes, I understand why you are sarcastic. But having a building system with walls that can be broken in a matter of seconds gives people NO intensive to build, or store items. Because they will loose them to the first person who comes by with a hatchet.
This is not just about me "The world of Rust would be in complete ruin with some guy running around with a spear throwing away loot." But if everyone was doing this.... why have a new building system put in if it is not fully ready.
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Yea right now you cant even run to the bathroom and back before someone can be inside. I truly hope that they arwill finish the hitpoints/levels before release to stable.
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Because it has to be tested. If it's never added because its not done, then the initial parts can't be proven to work, therefore more can't be added. You can't just snap your fingers and have a fully functional perfect system. You're expecting WAY too much in WAY too little of time. This update has been out for barely a day. You can't even wait a day to see what changes come or what has yet to be added, and that is why I am sarcastic and impatient with people like you. THINK for just 10 seconds about what its like DEVELOPING this game rather than playing it, like the entitled people who think their voice on this shit is more imporant than everyone elses.
Here's what you need to understand:
1. The system isnt even close to done yet
2. They've stated MANY times that they aren't sure if this still is 100% the system they are going with
3. There's no way to know if any system will work or not until it is added and tested
4. You're saying the same shit everyone else is. The devs aren't oblivious. Calm down, THINK for 10 seconds, and get over this short-term frustration you're having. Its a fucking alpha video game, THINGS WILL CHANGE
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Egh, setting hitpoints for the items can be trivially done at any time. I suspect we will see allot of changes over the next 14 hours Or however long before the friday release.
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Ok. First thing.... I am calm, But I think you need to calm down and learn to have a debate on the forums without cursing.
Secondly, I understand ALL of your points especially how they are releasing this for the alpha testers (That is us) to test and see if they want to use it. But what doesn't make sense is the fact the developers made the new walls for us to "test" out of toilet paper and moist cardboard. why not give us something to test that deserves the time we spent gathering the materials to build it up? Or at-least something to look forward to in higher wall tiers. Wood is in the game... so the devs added a level 1 wood wall. Stone is in the game... so the devs added a level 2 stone wall. Metal fragments are in the game... so the devs, wait. Why would adding a higher tier wall be so difficult? It surely would help testing.
This was my original point. And it is a valid point that should be debated, not argued with curse words.
Also, "There's no way to know if any system will work or not until it is added and tested" it has been added to the development build, and it has and is being tested right now by countless people. I am positive most if not all of them would want a level 3 wall to go along with their level 2 and level 1.
Edited:
Yes... I do hope its the 14 hours and not the Friday.
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Friendly jon, have you been enjoying your experience on our server? ****.ddns.net:****
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Very much so... Thank you for updating so I could test with friends. What is your opinion on the lack of walls in the newest update?
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Do you not have any concept of early access? You're part of the testing process.
If you don't want to be part of the testing process, go play other games for six months, then check in and see how it's doing.
This isn't being updated to please you now, it's to get testing data on the latest work. If you want a stable, unchanging target that's reasonably playable, legacy is still around and the dedicated server is available to all.
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Elix I hope you have this answer saved in a notepad file somewhere cuz I'm already sick of typing this shit and you've been doing this I don't even know how long. How do you stay sane around all this?
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I think I made my ideals about the testing process quite clear in my last quoted post. So this copy-pasted reasonable answer in your eyes is not going to cut it in mine. Just for the sake of redundancy (because it seems to be needed) I understand how alpha works.
The new building system was released to the development build today for people to test, review, and suggest. So abiding by the parameters given to me, I simply suggested that in order to test the full potential of THIS CURRENT update -- a more extensive wall system would be fitting. Buildings are made to defend, Rust is about buildings, release the first impression update with dependable/defensible buildings. Makes sense? Right? You state that "This is being updated to please you now" and this makes me smile! Thank you for the answer I was looking for this whole time. I unfortunately had to take it out of context to make it directed in a polite manner. But hey! Beggars can't be choosers (Fitting ain't it?)
My original point --> Why was a key aspect of the game not included in this very important update. To which the good answer was --> They are working on it as we speak.
What you thought I said --> Why is the game not finished! I payed $20 for this crap! I want my money back! To which the good answer was the ones you had posted.
Just for more redundancy for the sake of reiteration. I understand that forum moderators (or whatever you are) need to always be right, even if they are wrong (Not saying you are wrong in this instance). Why couldn't this thread go more smoothly? I stated a valid point and got flamed for it.
Looking forward to the replies.
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What you call a valid point is something that's been repeated across threads, without exaggeration, over a hundred times in this forum. If you expect the new building system to be held back until it's "ready" (which you explicitly state in post #3), you don't understand the point of iterative testing.
Wouldn't it suck if the devs built out the whole building system, and only then did players have a chance to find a critical flaw that requires hundreds of lines of code to be changed? There'd be a ton of wasted work thrown out, meaning wasted time, in their haste to build out a complete system without testing the fundamentals.
And that's why Friday's update will probably include the unfinished building system.
FYI, I'm a Gold Member, which in practice is meaningless aside from a larger avatar and access to a few subforums you don't have. Moderators have green names, and FP staff have light-blue names.
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I fail to find the "Over a hundred threads" regarding the lack of walls in a major building update. If I don't recall the last building update (Release of alpha) all levels 1 - 6 were available and relevant. To aid in proper testing. My point is Valid, and remains valid no matter how many other threads you find that are similar (which is 0).
"And that's why Friday's update will probably include the unfinished building system." It certainly is unfortunate that we have the defend roles of toilet paper for the time being. But I will continue to play because I never stated I would cease.
"Wouldn't it suck if the devs built out the whole building system, and only then did players have a chance to find a critical flaw that requires hundreds of lines of code to be changed? There'd be a ton of wasted work thrown out, meaning wasted time, in their haste to build out a complete system without testing the fundamentals." Cant see how adding a level 3 metal wall could cause this much mayhem. Over-exaggeration is a useful tool... when used in CORRECT situations. This would not be a factual outcome of a new wall. But it seems I cannot reason/conform to you so I will no longer be commenting in this thread.
Thank you for pointing out who I cant have a reasonable debate with.
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11th of June foundations were added to Rust experimental
8th of July walls were added to Rust experimental
So not everything was there when the first building system was implemented to the new rust, but over time it got better the same applies to this iteration of the system
that big release was months in the making and a lot of players missed that part of the development process , that was one of the main reasons Garry/Facepunch decided to push experimental as the main branch, to make players aware of the new version of the game.
edit: now Garry and the team have a base to work off these iterations are quicker and testing is paramount, which means some times making things easy for players to do I.E make and destroy things, this can test systems at an advanced rate and be adjusted later for the sake of game play, hold on it's a bit of a ride at times :)
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speaking of accelerated, i always felt the extreme rate that you gathered mats was to speed along building for testing purposes too.
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That's exactly the point, garry explicitly said so in devblogs.
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agh, i thought so, i haven't been following development that long, so i missed those. its just logical when you think about it. especially considering the rapid wipes.
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cupboard + floating house = Does not matter what level your house is, unless someone hacks, and flies on top of your roof.
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Its so early in this process, give it a few weeks then see how you like the new system
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It is definitely not 90 seconds for a level two wall. At least 10, and if you stop attacking it heals. Not to mention it requires a more expensive tool, a hatchet will not do it.
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This was changed recently. This thread is irrelevant now.
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Level 1 with a Salvaged Axe took less than a minute.
I guess that was "hard" to craft (not really). Still not sure what to make of this game at high level; seems like it's just for lawls vs. a survival game in the traditional sense.
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On a wood or stone wall. Took me 17 minutes to get through a fully-upgraded stone wall with a "Salvaged Hatchet". Please retest your results.
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Are you talking about the development branch? That's what I was referring to: a level 1 (wood) wall took me less than a minute to break through with a Salvaged Axe (the one that sounds like ice-picks in the ear drum every time you swing it).
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Then upgrade to stone. This new wood is very similar to the old building system's wood in the case of destruction time. And the new stone acts like the old level 4 stone wall (Cobblestone).
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Because its alpha. This is where they need to test the new system and "make changes on the fly". From a programmer point of view this is 1000x better than making a full system out of nowhere and testing later.
Not sure you know but i'm quite sure 100% of the big game dev companies does this. The only difference is that they have their own internal alpha testers to do this. In rust/Facepunch you have the public alpha test.
People need to stop bitching about facepunch testing new stuff. If you dont like te system at least give a proper reason to it and if you really want to help, give a few tips here and there. I'm quite positive that garry or a few others from facepunch visit this forum trying to grab a few ideas here and there.
With that in mind i have a small tip for garry :
- Instead of a week devblog + "week public patch " make it like :
2 patch per month. 1 at first week of the month that would apply everything that's on the real " dev branch" under steam beta options. And another one on the middle of the month that would give enough time to fix every bug that showed up from the recent patch.
This would let people that really really want to test those kind of unfinished systems try everything,report every possible bug and rollback the default branch and continue playing until you guys sort things out.
Even though most of us here get it that its alpha and this kind of stuff is really needed but you must agree that at least half of the playerbase is problably single minded and just want to play the game and dont care about anything else. One of the worse things that can happen to a game under dev is having a shitload of bad reviews out there.
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How about... don't type it. How about if all the members of the It's Alpha Gestapo stop trolling threads for opportunities to flail their arms in fake exasperation and post the same repetitive shit, regardless of whether it applies or has any benefit to the situation.
The OP acknowledged the situation, the premise of development testing, made some accurate statements about how paper mache walls will disincline playtesters from testing them, and then expressed his hope that wall durability would change somehow sooner rather than later so that the system could be reasonably tested. And guess what? Shortly after, they were!
And now that their bases can keep out rock-wielding newbies for at least a few minutes, now all the development build playtesters can get to work figuring out how to exploit the cupboard's magical Zone of Impotence to construct the next great suicide base.
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No one is bitching. I am tired of people THINKING everyone who states a suggestion or opinion is bitching. You are extremely late, and your post reads ignorant of everything that went on above it. Please read the entire thread before posting.
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I am OK with the constant DEV. Really, how many games out there change from week to week with new ideas and concepts. Its rather fun to have a new game every week. So its not polished, but most can agree it is polished enough to be enjoyable or we wouldn't be so passionate in the forums.
I always find myself trying some new strategy every time I venture or build. I am not very good at the PVP stuff, but if I die, I try something new that will allow me to survive just a little bit longer.
There are three main groups for players in Rust; the PVP ace battlefield 1st person I am the king whiz run around with spear kill and loot everyone and everything, the builder pack rat searcher of the ultimate impenetrable fortress please don't hurt me, and the hacker asshle ruin it for others hack and slash. All are having fun in their group although I would prefer the hacker choose one or both of the other groups. Fun it up everyone!
- Thief in the Night
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I really like the fluidity of the new build system: I like the menu system, I like the general mechanics of the build (I didn't mind hammering and find I still do in the dev branch as it speeds up the stone upgrade significantly), and I like how much of an improvement the alignment/snapping is over the old build system.
Still want to see how the build vs. break balance plays out though.
Couple of ideas: require two or more players to construct or upgrade to highest levels of durability. This is a realism/build penalty trade off. In turn, those higher value levels should be indestructible to hand tools; machinery (siege weapons) or explosives required. Siege weapons would be cool: cut down a tree and craft it into a battering ram, but have it require 4 players to wield.
Wall hit points: I'd like this to be variable at the higher levels, so that you can continuously upgrade (at a higher cost ratio of metal or some other rare element). Couple this with variable explosive levels, I could see a fun/tense counter-balance between "shit, not enough C4! Let's bail and regroup!" and "shiiit!, too much C4, we blew the storage boxes!" or "crap, that was a dud... let's try again".
Explosives: See above, but I'd like to see some depth and unpredictable randomness associated with explosives. Perhaps they do a range of damage, not a pre-defined amount, and that's entirely craftable. Throw in a chance modifier making them dangerous to handle (timer is not always accurate) or a dud too.
Before those of the Raider persuasion jump down my throat, I think generally making it tougher to build (two man high level building upgrades), force raid cooperation (siege weapon), but equally tougher to tear down a fort and maybe look to ambush resource gatherers for their key (in my little fantasy, I'd lose the code lock and require a physical key that you can duplicate for your buddies).
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The old building system was PERFECT. You got lots of resources, building was easy and efficient and made the game FUN. Now, you spend hours slapping trees to build three walls, then give up and go play some other game. Why would they change it? Sure, they could of changed some aspects of it to make it more balanced / fair, but instead they just made it boring. That's the problem with survival games. They're BORING. In a game like DayZ, the fun comes from player interaction. The servers are so small (30-50 max) that player interaction is rare, and DayZ has such poor anti-cheat systems that 1-3 player interactions will be with a hacker. In games like Minecraft, the fun comes from the creative effort of building your own home/base/castle/whatever. Rust is obviously a mixture of both, focusing on player interaction and building, yet it still needs more work. I am loving the direction the new version of Rust is taking, but I just feel like... I don't know. I'm just a bit disappointed, I guess.
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Tend to agree. My favorite parts of Rust have always been building bases and raiding bases, and I thought legacy had the best system I've ever seen.
It appears they may be bringing the old system back, however, if you go and look at what's on dev branch at the moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoQLfqK3LoU
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I hate the old system. Way too much resource consumption, bases are too complex (why do you need foundations, walls and pillars? why pillars? WHYYYYY) and it just wastes a lot of time.
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I am tired of everyone whose bitching thinking that their complaint is original. We've heard this shit time and time again, and all it's accomplished is proving that that particular poster doesn't understand what's going on.
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Well surely they could have remade the old system to be better with 3 levels (to keep the artwork down) i.e. wood, stone and metal that way you cut 50% of the hammering down. For me I always went to level 4 walls straight away making the earlier wall levels pointless. Those walls only suited raiders trying to get in a window or from the roof of your base. As for the "we want you to get out of your bases" you could raise the cost of building on the 3 levels remaining. I liked the fact you could build walls within a 1x1 foundation squares to make a little panic room or have a box of high level resources behind it. Having played the Dev branch it feels like a step back to legacy. I understand its not finished yet but to throw out months of work on the last building system without at least trying to save it with some modifications feel to drastic. I think the things people didn't like were the hammering, but the building system itself was ok for most people.
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I think that's really the key issue here though: nobody really knows what the end-game is here with building and the value of shelters in particular, so there's some general anxiety as to what the game is all about.
The concept art in the Trello board sheds a bit of light on where the game may go (traps, NPC Caretakers), but there's no real roadmap that I can see from the playrust.com site (the main Trello is locked), and some of that concept art is the better part of a year old too, so who knows?
And devs lose steam too (financially and motivationally): I've seen a lot of games with grandiose plans that fall well short and end up something entirely different.
Until there is an official roadmap or at least a semi-official response to the overarching questions of building, you're going to see the same questions asked, I'm afraid.
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Garry is experimenting with nice stuff on the new building system. I really like the idea of it.
I'm happy that they seem to return with the narrower plank-like texture on building objects. Can't wait to see how it works out!
http://files.facepunch.com/garry/201...1416319715.mp4
http://files.facepunch.com/garry/201...1416398409.mp4
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Exoquatic has no fing idea what he's talking about. lol
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The new building stability system is in on the dev branch now played with it for an hour.
It works well it does stop impossible staircases and stupidly unrealistic structures, and placement of the components is a lot more dynamic although there is a larger chance of items being placed wrongly.
All in all I like the new system but I am worried about bases being taken out just by taking out the foundations.
Glad I run a server to play with (sorry test) this system I would have had to fell 3 or 4 large forests to build some of the buildings I broke tinight but its great fun lol.
Agree x 7
Dumb x 4
Friendly x 1
Funny x 6
Optimistic x 1
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Artistic x 1
Late x 1
Useful x 1