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Post #81
i'm torn. i understand why they wouldn't want to waste resources into the old branch, yet i agree that it would be nice to see the old version "completed". its sentimental i know, but i like the old version too, and the further the experimental branch moves from the original, the more it "feels" like a new game. which i guess fundamentally it is. don't get me wrong, i'm loving the work done on experimental; its absolutely stunning graphically, and i'm looking forward to further implementation of the new building system. but i'l miss the old branch when it's gone.
i also think it's this sentiment that is causing a lot of frustrations for people, alongside the entitled bullshit that some people seem to have. it's great that a new game is being coded to replace the old one, but some people just want things fixed in the current build. like some people enjoy playing tf1 because tf2 is not only a sequel but an entirely new take on the game.
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I had a different opinion so far, but I'm forced to change it after facing the facts,
People are coming to this forum everyday for a last resort... but the truth is, in a very few time there will be "20 other survivor games", by that time Facepunch & RUST team will have lost the trust of their community already having it merged to 'other games' (as suggested), a big portion of potential players will be driven into those new games, a small portion will buy RUST for a discount on steam and will actually play it, the game will end as many games I've seen (Showdown Effect for example), it's 22:54 EST there are 89 players playing it.
Now elixwhitetail, with all due respect, you can come here and tell us how they are working so hardly, and I totally understand that, but it's impossible to deny... -
- ...the facts:
- They have our money;
- They don't care;
- You are telling us to play other games;
+ There will be new games released;
Who will recommend RUST when we are playing other new games? You? Good luck with that.
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Ugh...
Lets see whats the normal time cycle it takes for a game to be created 2-3 years? Do you get to pre-order that game at one point? So you drop your $30-65, and don't have a say what so ever.
Now imagine if you could pay for the game before it's done.. and be able to access it wouldn't that be early access right?
So if 2-3 years of early access isn't going to be pretty. Which it never really is. So I guess you should just wait for games that have closed development instead right? This way you don't have to get hurt.
Or you could do the cheap thing, and just watch people play on twitch, and save yourself all that money you would of paid for a pre-order or actually paying for early access.
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The Forest; its like rust but with even more nudity.
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the thing is though, had you never seen oldrust, you would go "wow i love this new rust this is exactly what i was looking for"
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Wow. That's just plain disrespectful.
If they didn't care, do you think the experimental branch would exist? Garry is on record as saying the reason they moved to the experimental branch was explicitly because the old codebase was so clunky and broken that it was too difficult to get anything done in a reasonable span of time. Updates were coming way too slow, and it was way too much of a headache trying to fix all the leaks and holes.
Instead, they took a fresh start with experimental, and the rate at which things have been added has easily been several times faster than they were under the old version. Maybe you haven't noticed, but in the three months since experimental's been under development, they've done more to improve the game than they did in six months of changelogs under the old system.
Garry is often at work on Rust until 11pm or later. I've seen him browsing the forums and responding to people past midnight his own local time. Saying he's taking the money and running because he doesn't care is straight up insulting.
Damn right I'm telling you to play other games, you guys are impatient ragers when it comes to complaining about how Rust isn't fun in its current state. To which I say, do something better with your time.
And why does this have to be a zero-sum game? Why is it now or never for Rust? You'll still have it in your library a year from now when it's fantasticballs. And who cares about other survival games, some of them will succeed, some will fail hard, let those devs worry about that. I don't think any of them will duplicate Rust's experience exactly, without just being a complete ripoff of everything garry's designed, and then we're talking cheap imitations.
I really don't understand the attitudes of new players. It's not a war for mindshare or anything, jeez. People've been coming in here saying "The Forest is going to kill Rust," as if. Good luck to the Forest devs, it's a promising concept. But it's not Rust, not in the slightest.
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Honestly all in all Garry is one of the most trustworthy devs I see out there
and this is coming from a man who has been here for 9+ years
garry only has 2 games (3 counting facewound) and even then I would say this.
I don't support him because I'm a brownnoser, I support him because I've seen how much he cares. I don't care who thinks he's a giant asshole Nazi, he's been doing this shit for almost a decade or more, he knows what he's doing.
IF garrys mod and/or rust suck in your eyes, why the hell are you sitting here bitching about it? This is why I'm not playing Fez right now, because I think the game is bad.
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I don't know what's worse - idiots who think they understand game development, or idiots who think they're entitled to a working product ASAP because they voluntarily bought the game via Steam Early Access.
I have worked in the software development industry for 3 years. I know, it's not a lot, but I'm very familiar with various types of development process and how developers tend to work. And with that said, the amount of work that has gone into each devblog is... astounding, really. It's monumental.
See, here's what happened with Rust, more or less, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong:
They had an idea for a game, so they started a prototype. The game proved popular in early tests. They introduced more features, more functionality, and then they realized the prototype they developed left a lot to be desired when it came to... well, a lot of things. It was a well-intentioned prototype, but it came short of the team's vision.
So they scrapped it. They wanted to make sure the game was built well, and that includes all this "boring" stuff in the devblog. Sure, nobody cares about animations or whatever. You all want new toys to play with, different building materials and guns. But this attention to detail, and commitment to quality is what differentiates a decent game from a great one. Give them some breathing room. It'll be worth it.
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to add to your point
http://superhotgame.com/play-prototype
this is what we call a prototype
you all already know what a full game is like. This game is an example of what every single game that's ever made had been through.
Rust is in the middle of "Prototype" and "Release"
this is a very awkward spot and is going to take a lot of time to fix.
There are going to be huge changes that, even the devs have no idea will be.
The game may even become something totally different, in fact, that's whats happening right now. It's like its a 16 year old girl right now, basically, when it grows up it could be an individual or a complete slut. We have no idea yet. It's going through some erratic swings and changes.
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So maybe steam should add "prototype" rather than early release. Maybe that's why us idiots aren't getting it.
At this point, that prototype is still being sold with the actual alpha hidden in properties.
It hasn't been scrapped.
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this and we really need to spam an interactive video on the topic of "Early access"
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Are you still on about this? Accuse Garry of false advertising or drop it. I've explained the development reasons for the way things are.
Tell me how you really feel.
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The prototype is plenty playable and contains core concepts that will carry forward in further developmental stages.
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I have no idea what any of that means.Are you still on about this? Accuse Garry of false advertising or drop it. I've explained the development reasons for the way things are.
Tell me how you really feel.
I'm am not accusing anyone of anything. If you're following along, the guy above my reply called it a prototype. And mentioned the old version was scrapped.
It absolutely hasn't been scrapped, as it's the default download when purchasing the game right now. Excuse me for talking about the topic being discussed rather than accusing the company of false advertising. I think their intentions are good and they want the best game possible. I just wish the game I fell in love with wasn't the sacrificial lamb so to speak.
Edited:
Obviously I love the prototype.
Edited:
Or an early access should be an early access.
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well there's snabbo
but that isn't the same kind of game as gmod/rust
Edited:
it's still the default version because the experimental is just that
garry gets you guys bitching about the stability of rust enough, he doesn't want to deal with 10times the level
rust is currently in an awkward situation development wise right now, but i assure you it'll be resolved soon
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I know. Sorry, devils advocate reactions.
Being called an idiot and then being told the old version has been scrapped, while it's still for sell rubbed me wrong. But it had nothing to do with Garry or facepunch. I was replying to protocol. It seems eli wants more.
I hate knowing the developers eyes can see certain criticisms, as they created a game I love, but there doesn't seem to be many other communities to discuss (and sometimes be critical) this game. I am not accusing anyone of anything, my replies are for debate purposes, not to lash out and spread hate. Not my intentions.
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And as the rebuild is really just another step on the path the prototype was taking, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that you or other players will love at least aspects of what we get going forward.
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its alright, that part's not directed at you but at yet another numbnut who keeps spam voting elix's posts. our pal elix is great at making friends;)
i hear what you are saying as "the true alpha game should be more easily and visibly accessible. we shouldn't have to opt into "beta" to play the currently updated version, it should be the primary mode of the game, and what new players are aware they are buying"
not a matter of false advertising, more similar to the tiny print at the bottom of a contract. it should just be idiot proof to play the experimental branch, and pics of that should be what is being shown on the store page to make it blatantly obvious what people are buying:)
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mrknifey has knifed the correct.
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This is all pretty interesting to see the different ideas of what buying into early access is. In my mind when I bought Rust I wasn't buying the screenshots I saw or the reviews I read but rather a process to create a game that looked interesting to me. The playable content available to me was more a rough demonstration of the larger idea than an established entity akin to looking at concept art, only more interactive. Edit:At first I played with it a lot, then I'd play less but check back to see the progress, as such the rebuild for me has been no different. I loved building skybridge last week with like 30 other people as a massive community project but that window of building floating foundations only lasted a day.
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It is idiot-proof to play the experimental branch. The official Playrust website has a post explaining how, and I've posted instructions, without snarky comments, to anyone who asks in a reasonable way. It's really easy.
The only problems with playing on the experimental branch at this point are bugs caused by the unstable, experimental nature of the branch. And those will improve in time.
But to make the experimental branch be the first thing Rust players get, that'd be a much worse first impression of Rust than the supposed bait-and-switch situation you're worried about. At least the legacy branch, as neglected and hacked up as it is, is something resembling a game at this point. It'll be replaced in time, but to put the experimental branch out as the default install now would just be disastrous.
People don't understand Early Access as it is, they'd lose their shit and demand refunds by the thousands if they had to come to the forums to figure out how to access the old version. The buyer is responsible for researching their purchases.
If you don't even know that the official website is playrust.com, I have no sympathy for you if you ask for a refund or complain afterwards, because you just flatly weren't interested and got bit by it. No, thelionnessa, this is not a direct accusation at you, but it covers quite a lot of the gripers who roll in bitching about no updates for three months.
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i hear what you are saying elix mate. and for a normal person it should be simple. i found rust via youtube, and from there it was a simple google search to find the play rust site, the trello and the forums. but common sense seems to be really uncommon these days. entitled twelvies with mommy's credit card don't have the mental capacity to check details before they shell out money. and they get confused if the box doesn't tell them exactly what they are getting.
so now we have entitled twelvies storming the forums with "this isnt what i paid for, its been like 4 months and no updates" without understanding there is an experimental branch. and then you, and everyone else with a lick of common sense has to explain it to them until we get blue in the face, and say "search the forum, there is literally 100 threads on this subject". and then the next one comes along and says "i paid moneyz for this, why i banned for (not) hacking?"...
if it was really idiot proof, we would have no idiots here, but unfortunately that's not the case. if they made the experimental branch the "game" and had the old branch as a "beta" branch, it would probably be more transparent to the idiots who can't use a forum search function...and maybe reduce the number of times we have to repeat ourselves. yeah it would give a worse impression of the playability of the game, but lets be honest...if they phase out old branch entirely, the experimental branch is exactly what they get for their money :)
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I wouldn't put TF2 and Minecraft in that list. Those are actually finished games except GMod. It gets updated constantly because it never will be complete.
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How are TF2 or Minecraft "complete" when Gmod never will be?
TF2 gets constant content updates and frequent new features (although often those features are for mapmakers and such, not new gameplay mechanics for players, when they're not part of new content). Minecraft is still updated frequently enough, despite having an ending screen.
If both of those games are complete, why are they both being constantly updated? Why can you get weekly snapshots of the development builds for Minecraft?
Why is Garry's Mod excluded from being treated the same as those two?
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tf2 and minecraft were "complete" upon release and patches only supplemented the game. gmod needs regular updates (even many years later) because coding doesnt seem like garrys strong suit
it was a game built my a dwarf on the shoulders on giants. it is only a MOD after all.
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TF2 is going to be around for a long long long long long long long time. Why? Tf2 keys.
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you do realize that every single game that's ever existed has needed this if they wanted to keep the game from having old bugs?tf2 and minecraft were "complete" upon release and patches only supplemented the game. gmod needs regular updates (even many years later) because coding doesnt seem like garrys strong suit it was a game built my a dwarf on the shoulders on giants. it is only a MOD after all.
even half life 2 needs regular updates. The difference is that Garry is trying to add to GMod + refine it.
Shit, even GTA5, an AAA game, needs updates
as well as Halo, Half life 2, Mass Effect, and many others.
Also minecraft was a complete joke on release what the hell are you talking about? That game felt far from complete, and even today that game feels like it shouldn't have been released yet to me. Gmod did but its being updated because he cares.
Shit, did you wake up from a coma having only played NES games?
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You fire up TF2 from the Xbox 360 Orange Box, with zero patches, no non-stock weapons, original set of maps.
You tell me it's complete.
You've got to be a troll. This post has actually made my unborn children dumber by merely existing.gmod needs regular updates (even many years later) because coding doesnt seem like garrys strong suit it was a game built my a dwarf on the shoulders on giants. it is only a MOD after all.
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tf2 for the orange box is complete; what makes you think it isnt? I know you're a real white knight for rust and all buddy, but don't take my attacks on the game personal which you seem to be doing with your childish insults
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You should've picked a better example, like something in a programming language for adults. Say, C, ASM, C++, LISP, Haskell, frickin Erlang, R, something that isn't built for the lowest common denominator. BTW, you're not half-replicating any data structure, you're talking way over your own abilities here bro. This looks like a poor mans attempt at encryption converting the unicode to the numeric placement of characters in the alphabet -1.
Bonus points for well-formatted code though. I'm not a fan of the tab indent, I prefer the 2 space indent, but that's really a style choice.
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What do you mean by complete though? I think perhaps part of the point is that you don't necessarily want to go back to that build. Sure it could have been fun but was it the equal to the current one (honest question, I've never played TF2)? I think of a game like Civ V, sure you could play it and have fun (despite the considerable bugs) when it was first released but there's no way I'd enjoy it as much as when playing with BNW. Many games change over time, for marketing purposes there is a "release" build but it's hard to argue that's the same as complete when many games continue to develop and change after that point.tf2 for the orange box is complete; what makes you think it isnt? I know you're a real white knight for rust and all buddy, but don't take my attacks on the game personal which you seem to be doing with your childish insults
(A better but less known example in my mind are Paradox games like the Europa Universalis series which tend to change drastically over the course of their post-release development)
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+1 for Paradox. They put in so much after-release dev time. I think CD Projekt Red does as well, but they resell you their fixes as The Witcher Extended Edition or something.
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I may have agreed 5-10 years ago, but JavaScript has come along way.
Maybe if he had presented it in a more modern style?
(I threw this together quickly, there may be errors)
We don't need to get into programmer-DragonBallZ... I don't think this was a full example of his "true power". His point was that someone with basic understanding of syntax and logic progression should be able to read that. An ability he doesn't believe Gin has.Code:var mysertyUtil = Object.create(Object.prototype, { version: { writable: false, configurable: false, value: "0.0.1" }, /** * Does Mysertious things. */ mysteryFunction: { writable: false, configurable: false, enumerable: true, value: function(workingStr) { "use strict"; workingStr = workingStr.toUpperCase(); workingStr = workingStr.replace(/\s+/g,""); var numcharArray = new Array(); for(x=0;x<workingStr.length;x++) { numcharArray[x] = workingStr.charCodeAt(x) - 65; } for(x=0;x<numcharArray.length;x++) { if(numcharArray[x] > 25) { alert("Invalid input."); return null; } } return numcharArray; } });
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my cat smells like cat food...
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You're right, I missed a closing bracket. Thanks.
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Elix, you should take a Xanax or something.
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Jeeze I never thought I'd see the day people google coding examples to use as means to show how big their penis is online.
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Everything in this post I love.
Also Garry will you have community support like Steam Workshop in the future? If so that would be cool.
Keep up the good work.
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Prototyping doesn't change the definition of alpha.
There is an unwritten rule of alpha and beta access that you should keep up with the latest developments. All the information about the current state, and how to access the experimental branch is posted on their website.
It is a very common occurrence for things to be thrown out and redone from scratch. This causes delays. If they hired a person to maintain a version of each thing they threw out that someone liked... It would be a mess.
I mean some people liked the zombies. Lets hire a dev to reboot that version and maintain it.
Some people maybe like the old sky... New programmer! Maintain this code!
Maybe someone wants it back to a web browser! New programmers!
Squeaky wheel... every time...
https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/stat...72272786374657
https://twitter.com/FacepunchBot/sta...86250010464256
https://twitter.com/FacepunchBot/sta...86245887455232
https://twitter.com/FacepunchBot/sta...86241772847104
Google? Blah. That is how I write Javascript.
Agree x 2
Friendly x 1
Disagree x 1
Dumb x 3
Funny x 1
Optimistic x 1
Winner x 1
Artistic x 1
Zing x 1
Informative x 1
Useful x 1