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Post #41
You didn't buy a game, you invested in a game development process with all the risk that entails as well as benefits such as playing early iterations of that product and later more polished versions as well.
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Uhh you really don't know what you're talking about lol. Duke Nukem Forever was remade numerous times in it's early stages, as was Prey, Aliens Colonial Marines, and many, many more that I can't be bothered thinking of right now. Shit happens, and this case is no different as the devs have realized their original code was no good anymore. Alpha is a stage in game development that's marked with numerous significant changes like that. It's not until you get to Beta that things will start to stabilize because the developers have a much more clear vision of where they're going.
If you really don't like the alpha experience then feel free to treat your purchase as a pre-order and wait for the final release. Otherwise you're just gonna have to learn to put up with it.
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I bet you these guys can become those million dollar companies anytime they want, but they're just taking their time with a small dev group, I mean with over a million dollars of Rust purchases I'd probably start hiring more people and possibly get shit going faster.
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Well, the first thing that comes to my head is Blockade Runner. They're building their own custom engine. The old build, before the complete restart, is about two years old.
You're wrong, deal with it.
Edited:
Oh just shut up. That's not how this works and you're the 80th whinybaby to bring this up. There've been new hires since Rust went onto Steam, but you can't just add 50 people and expect it to be done 50x faster. If garry hired someone today they probably would not be at full productivity for about a month while everything gets settled.
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Uh they are hiring more people. They have been for awhile and if you'd follow the trello and dev blog you'd see that numerous people have been added recently.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2012686
http://www.facepunchstudios.com/jobs/
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Well, aren't those games like not recent lmao. You gotta understand that I'm not purchasing every early access game known to man. I already told you my expectations, and it's the same for every game. I am apparently buying an early access game ok. I will see the development of it and I expect frequent updates "on the current version that I'm playing in." Not some other version of the game.
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It would have been awesome to have released the alpha, fixed 5 bugs and then said "now it's in beta" then fixed 5 more bugs and said "now it's finished" and never worked on it again. That's not how it works.
We're not pretending to be an alpha, it IS an alpha. It's still in early development. You're part of that process. Like Duke Nukem, or Half-Life, it could get restarted from scratch 10 more times until it's something we're proud of. This is the development process, this is our development process. This is what early access is about. Welcome.
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Well, you're wrong. Blockade Runners is in active development beeteedubs. I'm a Founder-era member so I have access to the ongoing dev builds, and they're still going.
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Are you trying to be a smart ass? It is a game right, I bought it, of course it helps the company lol
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Don't expect anything. You're buying the game in the condition it is in right there. You're not subscribing to an entertainment service. You're not an investor. This is spelled out pretty clearly.
http://playrust.com/early-access/
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There you go , the king himself answered Toby , how many developers would've given a shit about your topic ? Stop talking about an alpha like it's almost a Beta . It's far away from that . Other alphas are unplayable and as I said one example of a slow alpha is dayz they have that game for a year and you can barely see any difference from what it was when it got released .
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Yes, I'm glad that I am seeing the process, I'm glad that I had fun. But I'm not glad with it's current state, I mean in end I expect a fun finished product. I don't doubt it all, even a "messed up" game was fun.
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We're not `glad` with its current state either. That's why it's still in development.
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You just countered all you said until now. This is an alpha , it's at the early stage like 10-20/100% , it's not complete so you don't expect something that great because it's far from over. Judge it when it's a FULL release
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Dayz shouldn't even be comparable with Rust, that game is crap, beyond crap. I bought it, and it was instant boredom. I even played the Arma 2 mod (Dayz) apparently that is their end product lool, that is a fuckin joke. I don't understand why Dayz is still topping Rust with purchases.
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And you will receive a finished product. Garry isn't going to abandon the project. Garry's Mod has been supported for a decade, for fuck's sakes. This isn't a Sergey Titov operation.
The issue here is that you want it NOW NOW NOW and that's just not how shit works, and it's what we've been telling you. And you've spent this thread acting entitled about the fact that Rust isn't finished.
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well my bad, you gotta understand people are going to burst after an update less 3 months. I'm one of them
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This is your problem, not ours. Grow up and learn some patience. Discover masturbation or something.well my bad, you gotta understand people are going to burst after an update less 3 months. I'm one of them
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Since garry was already here, are we going to be seeing rad towns on the new map by any chance? Cause Rust isn't Rust without loot spawns in towns.
Edited:
lol
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"games never get scrapped/completely rebuilt in alpha"
0x10c (which was a shit name btw), halo:ce was originally built for the fucking mac
while they may have not been playable to you, they were most likely playable at the developers office, thus making it an alpha
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They already were before rust, with an estimated 30+ million 4 months ago. Hiring has never been easy, and today it is even harder since the economic crisis is making people steal other people's work not only in the internet but in other places you probably wouldn't expect to.
So not only is it hard as hell to hire the right people but it is also a costly and lasting error if you hire the wrong ones.
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This could be fun at some point...
On topic: I'm happy to be RUST alpha tester. Thanks Gary and his team for letting that happen.
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My humble opinion.
Garry could have thought about hiring a single person to add content to the original Rust each week. Because really, that's all we expected. Make the pigs drop pork, make the deer drop deer meat, make the bear drop bear meat. Just small things which upgrade the details. They added better rocks, rocks that broke, they fixed the moon, they added lockpicks, etc. Some of us were happy just getting these small content updates. The link he posted said the good thing is we will get support and updates, which we are not. The only thing being updated is the hidden unfinished version that says "Get Away".
He could have kept the same team doing the Rust 2.0, and just kept it under wraps. It could have been an entirely new game.
I know that isn't his style, but as bad as he says the code was, he could have still had a small team updating content and "finishing" up the current rust model as we know it, the one that actually sold over a million copies. The Rust 1.0 has enough loyal players in that it warranted maybe spending some of the "alpha profits" (which wouldn't exist) on keeping that version somewhat upgraded, even if just adding one thing a week. How much time does that really take? I personally loved that version.
My two cents.
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Page 1...
That's why the old branch of Rust has been abandoned. Neither one is a 1.0/2.0 "version", they're development prototypes, one of which turned out to be too broken to continue. Keeping the rewrite a secret would've just infuriated people like the thread OP, because this entire thread exists because he's impatient. Imagine if Garry had nothing to show for the months of no updates because the new version was being done completely in secret?
"Garry, what have you been doing with Rust since the last patch in March?"
"Iunno..."
That's a silly notion, and it's a waste of development time to work on something that is broken and condemned.
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@thelionnessa
Even tough I understand your point of view I have to disagree. Even tough is bad for the alpha testers community, I just think that there is no point in updating a version that is going to end in a trash can when the new version gets released. It's both waste of time and money.
Since we are not part of the dev team and there isn't really much anything we can do to help them out all we can do is wait or stop waiting and forget the game.
I'll also be very disappointed to see that RUST community will just forget RUST when survival games like H1Z1 (and others) are released.
Either ways, I understand that RUST isn't just an Alpha game that can be built in 6 months, but in 6 months it could be built much faster than now.
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No, they could have invested a little bit into the version of the game that sold over a million copies. Even if it was just 1 extra person on staff to monitor or add small content to the original alpha release, because they created something some of us loved. Respectfully, it wouldn't have been that hard to add deer meat, or rabbit meat. You know, since Gary says we are not investors (and he is not an entertainment service), what we paid for is what we get. What I paid and spend 800 hours is now called "a waste of time." I get that they are the developers, I get that we agreed to pay for a game that will change and is undone, but unfortunately that didn't change how much some of us loved the current version and wanted to see small changes. That's all. We'll never see it changed, we'll never see that version cleaned up or finished. It's not their job to finish, it.just sucks for us "fans" that liked that model, to never have it complete. Maybe the forum faithful that agree with everything the development team is doing doesn't care, but I loved Rust 1.0. It feels like we were wrong in falling in love with a game, and yes, buying it for many of our friends (paying for server costs, etc), because we should have known better the version we were playing was going to be called a "waste of time" a month later.
This "waste of time" outsold GMod and 1000s of other games. The game that is still being bought on steam as of today, is no longer in alpha apparently, it is discontinued, yet being sold as an alpha. The true alpha version, is literally hidden in the properties and called, "GET AWAY." I don't think it's a "waste of time" to please those who love your original version, and maybe invest one person to updating simple content until the "GET AWAY" version is "THIS IS THE ALPHA."
That's all I am saying, respectfully of course.
And I am not mad at facepunch, I got my money's worth. They made a great game and I am sure they will make an even better version in the months/years to come. But "page 1" didn't change my opinion. I'm glad your opinion is on page 1 I guess Eli. Thanks.
Edited:
I won't lie and pretend to know-it-all, I absolutely bought the game thinking alpha meant there was going to be changes, upgrades, and content added throughout the process. I would purchase the game for a friend and say, "they will be adding more stuff non stop." That was my own fault for being so naive and optimistic or not understanding how alpha worked. Maybe the minecraft blueprint mislead me.
I definitely didn't think the version we spent so much time on would be considered a waste of time, abandoned, while the game goes through a whole new rework. It just seems that at this point the game would be taken off the market as alpha unless people are purchasing the "GET AWAY" version.
That was my own fault I guess. I'm learning and admittedly this was the first or second game I purchased on steam.
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thelionnessa, imagine Rust is an apartment building, not a game.
Six months into construction, the lead architect comes running in to the worksite with a folder of paper. He explains to the foreman that there are fundamental flaws in the way the building has been constructed, and that it is unstable and likely to collapse if they finish building it the way it's been designed and built so far.
What is the logical next step:
1) Tear the building down and start over
or
2) Try and finish it up anyway, because a bunch of people need a place to stay, while building the new, won't-collapse building next to it, and hopefully the building won't kill anyone before we finish the new, stable design
It would be insane to put any more work into building a deathtrap of an unstable construction like that. With video games, crashing is not a life-or-death situation, but the waste of effort into a doomed effort is the same.
Do you not understand why the experimental branch is not the default yet? Are you really arguing with garry over his decision to fork development? Do you not understand that this was done in order to actually get Rust finished faster? The old version was a giant bag of shit that was held together with baling twine, from a maintenance standpoint, according to garry himself in slightly different words. Updates were pathetically slow prior to the switch to the experimental version because it was so terrible and broken.
Do you not understand that the experimental branch is a new attempt at capturing the same game concepts that were first experimented on in the old branch? It's not there yet, but god, if you'd tried playing Rust three months after development started, you wouldn't have fallen in love with it like you have this version.
Let it go. The new version is going to be much better.
Rust has been under active development the whole time you've been on this forum. The devs' Trello, the devblog posts, and the experimental branch itself are proof of that.
You didn't expect there to be more than one attempt at making the game. J.K. Rowling rewrote the first chapter for the first Harry Potter book over twenty times. It happens. Game development is not a smooth, straight flat road. It's more like gravel roads in the woods.
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Ok, would you still sell the first apartments knowing it is now unstable and likely to collapse?
That is my question. Do you still continue to sell these apartments to people while hiding your "real" apartments in a "bunch of paperwork" (properties) labeled GET AWAY?
Apparently it isn't that much of an unstable apartment if you are still using it as your main building for anyone that sees all the positive reviews on the build and rents/buys a place?
This is using your own analogy. While it's the main version and what people are currently purchasing the game for, it should be at least given a single person to work on content. If you are saying to me that 1 single person is just too much to invest, because those of us who bought it based off that build aren't worth it, then you don't get my point to begin with. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for being friendly enough to try to explain though. I do like your analogy.
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The apartment analogy is not perfect, I admit. However, if what you're selling is apartments, yes, until the building is finished nobody can actually properly move in. If you're selling apartments in the exact design you started with, no, but that's what this is for:
No, it is absolutely a total, utter waste of time to put even three seconds of developer time into the old version. The only reason you want this is because you want to keep playing Rust as a game, when it's so far from finished it barely counts.
Your attitude is the problem here, not garry's production decisions. Yes, it could've been handled better if garry was psychic, but unless we're going to fault him, some of the responsibility has to lie with you not doing research into what you were purchasing--a game in early, active development, where everything could change.
And, well, guess what. Everything changed, and you weren't consulted on the matter. I don't intend to be overly harsh, but I see all the blame going in a direction it shouldn't.
The old build is dead, and garry has said they will probably keep it around for fun. Right now it's being kept around because the screaming would be totally unbearable if the only version of Rust people could use is experimental: 1 server, no combat, building just getting started, placeholder footstep sound. That's not how it will be forever, and I expect it to be many times better than the old version.
I predict that, if you're still playing Rust nine months from now, you will look back at this clinging love for the old version and wonder what you were smoking, because the new version will have since surpassed the old build in every way. It's just that we still have the intervening months that have to pass for this to happen. And maybe it won't be exactly nine months, maybe 10-12, I can't decide deadlines for garry. I'm just saying, give it time and you'll forget the old version easily enough.
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Going to go with lucky number... 35!
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"I see all the blame going in a direction it shouldn't"
So I should blame myself for purchasing a game where the videos, screen shots, and all content shown is from a discontinued game, but called alpha.
While the real actual alpha that WILL change, WILL be updated, is in properties called "Get Away"?
Ok, I blame myself.
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Do you think the experimental build is:
a) ready to replace the old version, or
b) going in a totally different direction from the old version?
Do you feel like Facepunch Studios is legitimately acting in a fraudulent manner by having the experimental branch not the default, and the default a three-month-stale version that's fairly representative of what the devs want to do?
Do you feel that advertising laws are being broken here?
Edited:
Also, the "blame" section was slightly clumsily worded. I was not trying to say that all of the blame should be on you, the consumer, but that's kind of how it came out.
Instead, I was saying that not all of the blame can only go in one direction. Caveat emptor and all that. Sorry for not being clearer.
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I'd think of the legacy branch more as concept art than anything laid in stone. It was a developmental stage to test things out, if they had gone optimally they would have continued with it but instead one of those "things will change a lot" hinted at in the disclaimer was deemed necessary. What's important is that the core concepts of the game remain intact and will be carried forward in a much more optimal environment. This same design principle we see in much more micro forms if you consider how the devs have talked about 3rd person availability. Right now they're trying it, if it proves shitty, they'll remove it.
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Rust is by far the best post-apocalypse game I have ever played! I really think garry is doing this game justice by far. This game could had already been released and it still would had been fucking awesome, so stop hating on this game you guys obviously seem to like the game otherwise you would not waste the time to post a shit post about this game on this form.
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It can't be as bad as hearing about DayZ SA's direction:
http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comment...s_moving_to_a/
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I can understand everyone's point of view here...first off, I'll start with some positive stuff.
I love the way the new branch is shaping up. Every screenshot and video excites me, and I can't wait until it's done enough for mass player migration. Also a MASSIVE thank you to getting experimental working on Linux. That really made my day, being part of early access is definitely being able to see the newest builds available etc.
I also completely understand the abandoning of the old branch and agree with it. Spend your time making new assets for the new game. I don't care that every animal drops chicken in the old branch.
The only thing I would ask for (and I know it's impossible to ask for it and also a waste of the developers time, I know this) is something to be done about all the hackers. I see this being brought up on the steam forums time and time again.
A lot of people play this game. A lot. Every day. And every day, hackers ruin it for everyone. Peopel may bitch about c4 balance, but it's nothing compared to some guy one-shotting you through a wall from miles away. People getting their bases looted not legitly etc...like I said a LOT of people play this game and the hackers cause a shit-ton of butthurt daily. They are the most game-breaking thing there is.
I wish there were some way to deal with this, because although I am excited as fuck for the new branch, until it gets here the old branch is what we mostly play.
This is quite a pointless post really, because I know nothing will change, it's just a wish. And if wishes were horses beggars would ride etc.
Anyway, great game, I've got over 350 hours played so far and showing no signs of stopping any time soon.
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I'd like to remind you that experimental is now running EAC. They are doing things about the hackers.
In fact, that's another reason for the old version of Rust to be abandoned: It wasn't at all designed to be secure, for speed and simplicity, because garry didn't expect to have 1.6 million plus players, and the huge contingent of hackers that come with it.
Experimental was born in these conditions, so it should be much better built against hacks. It won't be hackproof, but it'll be like starting with walls made of wood, not paper, and then trying to fix the holes.
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No, the experimental branch is not ready. No, I don't feel any laws are being broken and I love Rust. My opinion is my opinion but I don't want to be booted from the community because I may be a bit passionate about the first build. I loved it, but it's definitely incomplete and will be forever.
That sucks to me. :(
The new game will have different maps, different building methods, and almost be a totally different game. In fact, with me searching around for other games (as suggested), I may not like the new version. I believe by the time it's playable, there will be 20 other survivor games just like it.
I don't think legally facepunch is doing anything wrong and from my first day buying it I knew the developers were dedicated and would finish what they started. I was told how long they worked on GMod.
However, eventually, when a company grabs the money and runs, I do think the alpha / pre release format could cause a lot of problems. What's the incentive to keep a million and half people happy when you already have their money. I've already seen multiple times, "If you don't like it, we don't need you... play something else."
Easy to say when you already have my money.
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It's almost as though you didn't read the rest of my post.
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My point is that the legacy branch is about as hackproof as a boat made of salt is waterproof. I didn't feel the need to beat the "legacy isn't being updated, it's a waste of time" because you knew about it and know the answer about what will be done about hackers on the legacy branch. I'm pointing out that they're not ignoring hackers, but their efforts are going you-know-where.
Agree x 1
Dumb x 7
Winner x 3
Artistic x 1
Friendly x 1
Funny x 1
x 2
Disagree x 7
Optimistic x 1
