Register
Events
Popular
More
Post #1Clearly two issues with the current building system:
It is very easy to grief someone's house e.g. smash a staircase, build a ceiling e.g. wall in someone's doorway, replace their doorway etc
It is very easy to raid by building stairs up the side of your house unless you surround the house totally by pillars i.e. very time consuming, ugly and not really realistic/ fun
Anybody got any thoughts/ ideas on how the new system could address these issues whilst still allowing raids etc?
-
-
From what i understand, the new system uses a framing system where you set a frame for a new structure then build it over time by adding materials.
From http://playrust.com
-
Instead of climbing barricades, we could have 1 wall high ladders that you could use instead. Also believe it or not rust houses are a hell of a lot stronger than normal houses. Ceilings are indestructible, as is the floor, and just a bit of C4 could easily wipe out a normal every day house.
-
All very true but you don't build normal every day houses to defend against groups of raiders with c4 and magical building skills to block stairways/doorways in a matter of minutes... Unless you live in Syria...
-
Except as stated before the new system doesn't work that way
-
I think we have to remember that actually, in the past 3 months, there have been zero gameplay improvements. All of the fundamental complaints about the game are not being addressed- the whole code is being re-written.
When the new version is implemented, we will still be in exactly the same gameplay situation as before. I hope they get to work on the gameplay asap!
-
Furthermore garry has to ask himself: should you be able to be completely save?
strength and availability of c4 drastically change gameplay.
-
people actually grief in this game? that makes me sad.
-
So I imagine with the new building system, at least eventually, building will be a much more resource and time expensive process. Simply throwing up staircases everywhere will be rather more impractical. One can see the possibility of organized large groups doing a sort of siege warfare where they must maintain a defensive perimeter for a long period while they try to build the Rust equivalent of a siege tower or try to break their way through walls. Consider also in the future that inventories will be much more restrictive, it's likely only the largest and most advanced targets will be worthwhile but also require lots of cooperation to pull off.
-
I hope in the future players face problems that only can be solved with multiple people. To get more teamplay going.
-
I like this, though I do think that the servers will require more than 150 players to achieve multiple "communities" fighting each other. I would love to see maybe 400 players online, would be utter chaos and it would make resource gathering considerably harder, forcing people to join up.
-
That would be complete chaos, certainly. A 150 players limit could definitely allow for a number of organized groups of 10-20 individuals though as well as we poor solo wanderers.
-
I think Ebrim is onto something. Fundamentally, building a staircase up the side of my house should be extremely time consuming 'on location'- as opposed to making C4, which is resource consumptive but takes little time 'on location'. So do you spend the time building on location or do you come with C4 and blow all the doors from the floor up. As opposed to at the moment- quickly build up the side and then blow the top floor...
-
The map is huge. 150 will feel barren.
-
You serious? I normally play on a 45 player server and have never gone any longer than 30 minutes without at least seeing someone run along the road.
-
The road? the new map has no road.
-
Procedural map could scale by server capacity
-
Is that an suggestion or is that an actual concept idea of the devs?
-
The maps we have seen so far aren't all that huge. You can generally run into someone within 5 minutes and that's with player numbers around the 25-30 range.
-
hopefully this doesnt make house building into an even longer endeavor. it's already one of the most dangerous things in the game is to build a house depending where it is. craft times + new construction times means you'll be a sitting duck even longer.
-
Building a house takes about 10 minutes tops if you have all of the materials ready. I think people try too hard to build a huge base right off the bat, if you build a 1x1 to keep you safe then you can expand off of that into your super huge base over time.
-
I wouldn't be heartbroken if this led to more clustered building in communities or even less building overall. One thing that bothered me about legacy Rust is sprawl.
-
I, for one, will get back on topic and say this:
The first idea that was mentioned in the blog with the frame building and then team crafting with raw mats was interesting. He mentioned that the frame could be knocked down with one hit. That would make it a hell of a challenge for raiders to grief, because they would have to construct a frame, and bring raw mats, and actually tend to the crafting of building parts to be able to grief.
Unfortunately, it looks like they've stuck to the old method of building.
I have something I'll throw out there, though, let me know what you guys think. I don't know if this has been mentioned before.
I think if you are on the inside of a building, you should be able to "Deconstruct" building parts with just basic Tools + Time. Think of it this way, there's a doorknob, it locks my door. If I'm on the outside of this door, I cannot do anything unless I have the key, or I brute force my way in. BUT, if I'm on the inside, I can either unlock it, or I can pull out a screw driver, and just pull the fucking doorknob off the damn door, and pull the fucking door off the door frame.
Now, this get's interesting, because then, you think about, OK, which way do I put the door on if I'm building vs raiding. If I come to raid and blow down a door, I'm forced to put a door back in the same position, which means the defending team can deconstruct with some time and effort, later. But, the 5-minute door bar thing is important if you want to be able to get in without the defenders putting something back up right away, and wasting your charges.
If I blow down the whole doorway, I can replace with a doorway and door locking to the opposite side, but I risk having them play a defensive move before I can do this. Also, they would be able to deconstruct the door from the outside, later.
This all gets very interesting. I haven't thought it through, but it becomes an interesting dynamic.
-
.phase that is rather interesting... of course, the way I would do it (as a griefer) is to create a 1x1 chamber with both doors facing in (deconstructible if I'm standing in the 1x1). I could then open one door and walk out, close it, lock it-- griefing job complete.
Heck, even if I had to suicide out it would work.
It's an interesting idea, but whatever you come up with is always going to be griefable unless you prohibit players from building on to another player's base and I don't think that is likely to happen (and I don't want it to happen, either).
Interesting idea though!
-
Absolutely, Dionysus9, that would be exactly how to do it. And griefing should be a dynamic of the game, we just need a way such that it's not completely retarded for a defending team to lose out just because some raiders came and locked them in. There's a lot to think about and consider.
I did consider that only the building owner could deconstruct parts to his building, but that didn't seem right for so many reasons.
Also, consider that Pillars may be removed from the equation: that means no griefing with pillars to block building expansion, and also no anti-raid pillars, and no stupid barricade stairs.
So, what is to prevent someone from "clipping on" to your foundation to build that 1x1 lock chamber to grief?
The spike walls sort of work. Maybe a moat? (Because I want a moat for my castle dammit!) In both these cases, the idea is the same: prevent griefing by cutting off the expansion of what foundations you've already laid down. Considering laying down a foundation/pillar is permanent in the game as it currently is, I don't think some method of permanently modifying your exterior foundations to prevent future building is so bad.
-
Currently, we normally build out to a point where no more foundations can be placed and then make that our entrance/exit, and we try and locate other alternate entrances/exits to also allow for other ingress/egress. Pillars can certainly be used to make a grief-free entrance/exit, but as you say it looks like Garry has decided to remove them.
I like the moat idea. They have concept art for shovels, after all. However, moats should be able to be filled in if you want to take the time to sit there and move dirt around.
Being entombed by raiders is not necessarily a death sentence. You can blow your way out with grenades or c4, or you can farm for those (or bring them in from elsewhere [ a sub-base]) and blow your way in / out. It's a huge setback, for sure, and most players with a limp will seem to rage quit.
Yet, as you indicate, there are ways to build a grief-proof base and players should have a certain responsibility to learn how to do that...
-
The map is huge, the playable area is small.
The map experimental branch (where the new building system will be implemented) spawns over the whole map. It is huge.
-
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear, I was talking about playing on the experimental maps. As far as overall area the current map on experimental feels a little smaller than perhaps the overall (not "playable" area) map size of the legacy.
EDIT: Maybe part of the reason it's so easy to find someone is the current crazy footstep sound.
-
If you are just starting and get trolled by developed groups, you are essentially forced to start over/rage quit. That's a recurring topic of discussion: How easy it is to have fun/ruin someone's day by doing such things.
There's got to be a way to balance this out a little better. I've seen so many servers with "No Griefing" rules. There's a high demand for such a scenario, because, let's face it--it's fun to beat the living daylights out of a crew, if your intention is to play full PvP, but when a big group does it a few times on a server, the server is dead. De-popped servers are no fun.
The "Deconstruction" scheme isn't an anti-griefing campaign, but it does seem to help the defenders more than the attackers. If you have to make 1x1 lock rooms to entomb a base, you are using more materials. The defenders will essentially only have to use the same amount of explosive to begin getting back into their base, granted, they'll need to spend some time to deconstruct the next door.
-
An "emergent gameplay" strategy that might result from your proposal (that meshes quite well with the paradoxical nature of warfare) would be for the as-yet-under-established crew to "grief themselves in" to their own base, such that it would appear they had already been griefed and could not exit... but then they could just deconstruct the barriers and walk out.
However, once the raiders know about that tactic they might slap their own walls around probable exits to truly grief the base... but you can't do that for every wall, can you? That would be a huge drain on resources....
-
mmm! very interesting.
Yes. See, one of the problems now is that the exit/entrance point is much too obvious. A metal door on a wood doorway, sure, there's no hiding that. But a wood door on a wood doorway, why should that be so obvious? Right now, you can tell just by looking where the doors are.
Random tangent of thought: grappling hooks! If you could use grappling hooks to get back into a higher level door on your base after a teammate has opened it from the inside, that would be great.
I can already see the stalkers hiding in the hills waiting for a team to open their door and get sniped, leaving their entrance vulnerable to a scaling attack.
Oh, sometimes it's depressing how far off this stuff can all get without any hope of being better. Then, there are times where it's beautifully optimistic. :)
-
Not being able to snap a foundation onto someone else's base might seem like an easy fix, but of course the enemy can currently just build a foundation close by and 'lean' over to place C4 and then jump into your base. Full pillar surround or a base where NO foundations can be built within 5m seem to be the only defense at the moment.
I love running round a server looking at players' attempts to stop raiding e.g. pillars only on the centre of foundations, pillars only half way up etc.... all useless!
-
The pillars are useless to, you can put spikewalls between them, spam medkits and climb up!
-
Prevent easy raiding? They are making a bazooka! Did you want more easy than that? rsrsrs :P
-
Personally, I am liking the idea of getting rid of pillars. Sometimes I (another players I talked to) would misplace a pillar because of a sudden frame drop.
As for raiding, I am thinking that it would have more stages to it than "first one to get C4" and building stairs. However, I think a more in depth discussion should go into the suggestion thread.
-
I don't think the bazooka will have overly explosive bullets, but simply launches a projectile to damage players. (like the pipe shotgun of explosives)
-
What I'm expecting is that the Bazooka itself will be very expensive to build, and the ammunition to cost twice as much as a C4 charge. And that both will be hard to get hold of, a similar situation to C4 and explosives.
-
One can hope that it plays out like this. A rocket launcher is the kind of thing you only want to see when someone fires it at a really tall tower full of bolt rifle campers.
-
To help (but not completely prevent) griefing (as it is part of the game) I think that any foundation segment that is not connected to another foundation segment (ie. The outer edge of your structure) should stick out from the actual wall segments by about a foot or so, making it so that people can build ramps and jump on to your roof from them, but can't actually block doors so you can't get out.
I also think that you should be able to "lock" foundation blocks with a pin code the same way you can with doors and only people who have the pin can then build any structure sections on that foundation, but they can place doors and other objects (the pin should have a decay timer in case the house is abandoned). On top of this each house should have a "foundation stone" which can be placed by the owner when they construct the house. If someone can destroy the foundation stone then the lock on the foundation is removed and they can then patch up the sections of the house to seal of back up so they can use it. After 48 hours a new foundation stone will be generated and the first person to "use" it takes ownership of the whole foundation and can set a new pin. This gives the person who was attacked time to try and get it back before the raider can take full ownership.
Would need extra thought, but would add an element of structure to the whole thing and help people keep their homes even if they get raided, as the house itself is usually the most expensive thing they own.
Zeb
Dumb x 1
Agree x 1
Informative x 2
Funny x 1
Optimistic x 1
Zing x 1
Disagree x 1
Useful x 1
Winner x 1
