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Post #1I like the honestly in the updates.
Tho you don't need to apologize. The only thing people want to know is that you and your team are still working on the game. It doesn't matter if it takes time.
People just don't want to be left in the dark.
Take your time and make a great game.
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Yeah, such a nice change from the usual politician-like dev updates ive seen from the big boys.
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Swedish people are always nice. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed at the lack of updates but at least they are being honest
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I think the thing a lot of people don't get is that if they don't get the foundations of the game right every patch will just cause more problems.
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This exactly. There's no point in being impatient right now. If they were rushing updates they would just hit a wall further down the line when this game is even more awesome and hard to put down. All that would cause is more frustration. I'm glad they're getting the code organized now and I'm willing to wait on content until they know the code is stable and future proof.
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What I dont like is that comments are disabled with the new update. Feels a bit like censorship.
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Look back through previous blog posts' comment sections. Nothing of value has been lost.
The forums are a much better-moderated, accessible place for discussing updates.
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Last update had 2 separate people under the alias Garry Newman who were replying to everyone's replies with sexually obscene poems. If they wanna reply they can come here where their stupid trolling gets banned.
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I'd kind of like to read these poems...
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which update ? the last is 2 months ago...
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I think it was sarcasm but nobody got it.. you can see this is a RANT thread b/c of the icon..
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someone named rapefruit is reading this right now. thats right rapefruit.
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It's good public relations (PR) to release weekly dev notes on your product. I like how Garry is honest with his feelings but it's simply not necessary.
- weekly update = good PR
- personal feelings = lovely but not really required (I'd focus on positive feelings if any)
- removal of comments on updates = genius
- apologies for slow updates = not necessary, either do weekly and commit to them or release whenever and the public can deal with it
- personal negative remarks to forum users from Garry = disappointing, rise above it mate, it simply reduces your professionalism
- Rust = awesome, keep up the great work :)
Cheers!
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It's a status update. I never understood why they allowed comments, anyway.
It makes about as much sense as "I'm currently halfway through making a three minute egg. Comments? Criticisms?"
edit: .....I used "since" for "sense." Somebody please shoot me.
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People can just come here to discuss shit. The comments page was a cesspool of desperate server advertising, random spam, and absolute idiocy. It really had to go lol.
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The "Garyr Newman" poster was good for a 5 second laugh and a double take though.
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I think were lucky Alpha is even open to the public,. Rust is a nice start,. but we do need some sort of in game bug report feature,. not to mention most people are keeping exploits they find a secret,.
I just hope they have a real team of testers breaking the game and reporting the bugs/exploits they find.
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"Early Access" style game selling is very exhausting for developers and community managers.
Because game development concept consist of an complex software development processes, art, music, color and little fun.
Developer need a piece of serenity, a piece of technic, a piece of imagination.
Not chitchat...
So, even if it's late on this point Garry do the right thing.
(sorry for my bad english (google translate rulaz :)))
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at the moment the game is dead and it will be hard to find the sucess that the game had first with many players dont forget that many great games came out 2014 and so i will not have the time for play rust so much ..at least i hope we see some great content soon^^
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It's not dead to me.
I love it.
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Some of the people commenting there forced Facepunch's hand. It was probably either moderate them or cut them, and the cheapest easiest option won out. Do you really want the team being distracted by business issues other than the current rewrite of the prototype?
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People can not come here to discuss what they want. Complaint threads will be locked, people will be banned, you will be trolled by the resident fanboys who will call you stupid for bringing up valid points or criticisms of anything Rust related. This place can be rough. It's highly regulated and anyone who's critical of Rust is seen to the door even if the point they are making is a good one.
Lets not pretend this a place where free speech reigns supreme. This is FacePunches official forum, I expect it to be biased. They pay for this place and they are selling me a product.
Many of the last posts I saw on www.playrust.com were people lamenting that they wanted refunds. How could it be in FacePunches best interest to have anything to do with that?
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lol, you got banned for being a relentless trolling spaz and for creating a second account to back your arguments up, not for expressing valid complaints in a reasonable manner. You pretended to be two separate people.
You complain about freedom of speech when you've been caught being deceptive by using sockpuppets and pretending they're independent people supporting your viewpoint to make it look more popular than it was. That is not how you make your arguments.
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If I were going to troll this place I'd have used an IP spoofer for my alleged alt account. What are the odds that I have 2 steam accounts worth over a grand each? I don't want to blow your mind here but if you look at my steam account you should be able to tell that it not the same as my kids steam account. Even you elixwhitetail should be able to figure that one out. If you can't I'll walk you through it, slowly of course. It may help if you'd use some logic too.
(Hint: start by looking at my steam account.)
elixwhitetail You have some balls calling anyone a troll, all you do is argue with people all day knowing that you've got the backing of the admins. You never make any points other then the daily talking points. What do you bring to anything? You're a fanboy who probably gets paid for posting in this place. It's your job to do spin control so I hope they are paying you and paying you well.
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Damn I wish I got paid for posting in here... I could probably quit my day job!
FatFlint, I've never seen you post anything even remotely constructive. You're always abrasive and rude and then making multiple obvious alts on top of it all doesn't help. You're obviously just trying to piss people off and get banned... I sure hope it works out for you, no one will remember you when you get perma'd.
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I'm not talking about Steam accounts.
I'm talking about the second forum account you made to pitch your retarded conspiracy theory that Rust launched on Steam five days later than it actually did, but that the devs allegedly had the release date on the store page changed so that it was ahead of DayZ Standalone for some petty reason you imagined in your head.
And you agreed with yourself and argued against the rest of us until you got banned for a week and your alt got perma'd. Care to justify that sort of behaviour? Are you high or something?
Besides, if you think that's all I do, you have not even done the slightest bit of research into my posting history, which is public information. I'll let you in on a little secret. I don't really care what you think, jack. Calling someone a fanboy is a laughable tactic around here, too. Calling me a paid shill because I say things you don't like is just hilarious. Oh, your poor, angry little mind.
I don't tell you how to parent your kids. Where do you get off telling garry how to be a game developer?
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*HEADLINE*
"FP Makes Millions on latest iteration Rust, sticks to small dev team but tosses money out the window for FP Forum Trolls."
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"This is The Situation Room on CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. In our top story today, it emerged that a full 90% of the member accounts on misanthropic Internet forum Facepunch dot com were in fact accounts controlled by the owner of the forum, Garry Newman, in an attempt to maintain a positive image about his games. Folks, this may cost me my job, and my ethics as a journalist ordinarily forbid me from saying this, but...*HEADLINE*
"FP Makes Millions on latest iteration Rust, sticks to small dev team but tosses money out the window for FP Forum Trolls."
What the fuck is that?"
*cut to blue screen, then commercial*
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Just got this game and as a total newbie can say I love it! Keep it up
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Liked the story of network library - made me laugh at the corporate BS:
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Except DICE, aka BF4.
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"Upon discovery of the behavior exhibited by Newman and Facepunch, the newly founded Dunning-Kruger society announced their long-time partnership with Facepunch, and revealed that the employment of forum trolls was a project planned long in advance to raise public awareness of the broad ranged non-awareness of the public."
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"It's not dead to me.
I love it."
Same here, got it 4 days ago and can't stop playing, love it.
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Okay, but seriously, let's have an adult conversation about this. Forget what I said earlier in this thread, here is the bottom line:
Rust, and 3D multiplayer FPS game development in general, will take time to do properly. There are a few things at play here, and not every single one is something the devs can hide behind as an excuse. Hear me out.
Rust is going to still be actively being worked on, that is, not completely "finished" (in the way that the current version of Terraria, 1.2, is likely to be the definitive version for at least a couple years) and feature- and content-complete, for probably another two years. Before Minecraft and the Early Access style of getting in very early on and playing builds as soon as the game is bolted together enough for demos, the game wouldn't really be out in the public's hands for another year to year and a half.
Think about what this means. What kind of state is anything 12 to 18 months out? That it's playable at all for real entertainment is not really remarkable, but it is a plus. I'm a Founder-era supporter for Blockade Runner, and in the recent development builds, since they're undergoing a full engine rewrite and are now tackling the title menu UI, the game basically doesn't do anything but boot up to the main menu, and half the buttons crash the game. Resizing the window used to crash the game, and one of the Founder builds was in fact to smoke test the resizing code. This is kind of the life of a game developer.
A coding project of this size, whether it is a game or not, can only be accomplished if you break it down into its many thousands of components. Every one of those components has a very small tolerance for error, most of the time, and can behave unpredictably if the rest of the gigantic machine feeds it something it wasn't expecting, or is correct but will cause unpleasant things for the player.
Making a game is like raising a baby through its first years, where the beginning is spent with it screaming while you wash its own shit off of it, and gradually you can teach it to count and do simple things, and it eventually gets sophisticated enough to get up and talk to others on its own.
A lot of the things the devs are working on are really technical and boring and don't lend well to screenshots. Pages and pages of code modules that don't actually make something happen in the game yet because they're not finished, those don't make for exciting YouTube video updates. Every minute that the devs are writing blog posts about what they have been doing to make Rust, they're not actually making Rust.
I've been following Rust since shortly after it exploded outside of FP itself, and I've watched how the devs have responded to the community over time. The only real thing that's gone wrong is that Rust experienced an undeserved explosion of popularity (that's right, I said undeserved) and the community increased by about two orders of magnitude too large for tiny Facepunch Studios to adequately address and respond to. As much as I'd like to throw blame on the devs for dropping the ball, I really can't fault them too much, because they never expected or wanted such a huge following this early. It's literally been a curse, although certainly a curse that many indie developers would give a leg to be cursed with.
If you are someone who is anxious to hear about the latest things the devs are working on, there are two things you should do in addition to watching the devs' Trello and the PlayRust blog site:
1) Trust that the developers are working hard to make the game for you, and that they are doing their best to make it the best it can be. Now, there are certainly things that will be included in a patch that don't look like "the best", but in this stage of the game, sometimes a "close enough" drop-in placeholder is the best choice because it's more efficient to just wedge something in there so work can move ahead.
The developers want to impress you with what they're working on. Allow them to choose when something is ready to show off. Nobody likes being marked on their half-finished first draft of the paper they don't yet have to turn for two weeks, and the Facepunch Studios devs are no different. Trust that they are working hard on things that need to be done in roughly the priority they're being done in.
2) Realize that the priorities of the development team and the process of creating Rust do not always translate into straight-forward increases in fun and playability for you in every patch. However, this is because Rust is still in the foundation-building stage. Everyone playing now has come in at a weird time. Not too many months ago, Rust was essentially a playable prototype, with most things placeholders to just demonstrate the rough outlines of what the devs were trying to do.
This prototype exploded into a million-plus sales, and outgrew its britches really fast in the expectations of the player base. Rust's early explosion in popularity on Reddit was largely based on the extreme scarcity of keys compared to the demand, and what everyone thought the game was (a mid-beta-stage DayZ+Minecraft-building FPS by the Garry's Mod guy), and not what it actually was (an early alpha prototype with placeholder everything and no balance or anticheat protection). This created a hype train that is only now really coming down to safe speeds.
Rust has a bright future, but it's been way overhyped for what it is right now. I think this is fair to say. The devs are working very hard to improve the game, but, at this early stage in the game Rust has a lot of problems for the devs to solve. That's not a failing on their part, it's merely the fact of the matter. Progress is going to be incremental (and sometimes not so incremental), but it's that slow and steady grind, hours on hours in the code and in the content creation tools, building up a fantastic machine that you can be proud of having watched grow and given feedback on, that is going to make Rust reach a 1.0 launch status.
About feedback, garry and the devs appreciate constructive feedback. They really do. I'm not a dev, but unless the policy's soured lately, it's an established truth.
What is not appreciated is:
- bitching and whining about how the game sucks right now
- bitching and whining about how the game isn't being built fast enough to suit you
- bitching and whining about how the devs are not keeping us up to date on the daily minutia of game development
- bitching and whining about garry not developing Rust the way you want it to be
- bitching and whining about decisions made by the development team
- demanding the development team do things
- pretty much being a dick in any other capacity
There is a sensible and mature way to deliver feedback. And then there's this:
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happy with the updates. Now if we could just get someone to comment on the missing non-pvp official servers that would be really great.
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FacePunch could have limited keys. I'd still be waiting in line for my chance to buy Rust if they'd decided to release say 10,000 keys for Rust on Steam. Garry absolutely could have done that.
So we're going to blame the community for buying the game? And we're going to say it's a curse for the developer that the game sold so well? That's kind of crazy, isn't it?
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For a game that's in full release: no, that would be absolutely ridiculous.
For a game that's in very early development: yes! Suggesting and blaming are different things that people seem to blur the lines between. Making something public knowledge is one thing, claiming that FP is a tyranny that doesn't let you express your opinions is another (exaggerating).
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I appreciate his straightforward updates but I think deciding to rewrite the entire game at this point was a serious mistake. At least 3 weeks until the next update is crazy. This game is dying. So much potential squandered.
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Okay, so, a lot of history happened in the six months between Rust going viral on Reddit and you signing up on Facepunch, and it's something that I'm aware of and you aren't.
It's less "blaming the community" for buying the game and being interested in it, but it's more an acknowledgement that becoming too popular, too early, is in fact a negative situation to be in, and it is not desireable. A huge number of peoples' first impression is with a game that is very bare and sparse, and it sets the tone.
Now, you do make a reasonable argument about limiting keys. Except, this is where not knowing history fails you.
The fact is, Rust went through multiple periods of fluctuating supply and ease of accessing that supply. I'll spare talking about the earliest of days when a key was not even needed, and move on to when Rust was starting to go viral on Reddit and demand for keys was swiftly outpacing server capacity, which restricted the key supply.
Once Garry introduced the key system that was in place at this point, he would release batches of keys periodically to the Gold Member Forums, as a little treat for being Gold. As a brief side note, Gold Member status on Facepunch isn't so much a "VIP" status as it is a "veteran" tag. As a Gold, you have a few more forums that others don't have access to, but they're not really that special once you've seen them, and you're also held to a slightly higher standard of conduct that li'l newbies aren't, because you're expected to have been around the block and be aware of what gets you banned. Anyway, the important thing to know is, at the time, you could purchase Gold membership status in the Boostar store, with half the money going into the server maintenance fund, and the other half going into the moderators' tip jars.
This information leaked out of the GMF, and impatient Rust kiddies began signing up for Facepunch, spending the $10 for Gold, and then making a new thread in the GMF that amounted to "Rust key plz". And this began happening a lot. An unacceptable number of times.
Gold was taken out of Boostar, where it would stay disabled for several months, and keys stopped being handed out in the GMF. And, pretty much stopped being handed out altogether due to this and certain other factors that are irrelevant here. I suspect that at least a few of the idiots who bought Gold for Rust keys filed disputes with Paypal for refunds when they were "denied" the Rust key they thought they were entitled to, which keep in mind was never promised by anyone with any authority, and that makes Paypal angry with Garry whenever that happens. I do not have concrete proof that Garry was hit with chargebacks over Gold memberships, but I suspect it to have happened.
A month later, with about 13,000 keys in the wild, and no keys being distributed for four weeks, the daily flood of newbies signing up solely to beg for a Rust key, from a variety of nations around the planet, was not stopping. Account-sharing, scamming using account-sharing and "selling" accounts (the email address could not be changed and could always recover the account, so the account would be "sold" and then recovered and password reset for another sucker to borrow for cash), and all-around shitfuckery were rampant.
The stupidity began to increasingly land in other forums by people who could not even find the Rust forum with two eyes and a working mouse, disrupting the community more and more often. Limiting keys was not working.
Then, the key auctions came along. The keys were set as a Dutch auction, where multiple keys would be put up at a maximum price, and they would continuously tick down for the duration of the auction (24 hours, for most of them). Any of the keys could be purchased at any time, so long as you were willing to pay the current price at the time of your purchase. Allow it to go too far and you risked them selling out before you got one. Once they were out, that was it until the next auction (the next day). Initially, the auctions started around $250, but this was later revised sharply downward as capacity was built out.
This really didn't do much to blunt the flood of stupid begging on the forums, but at least it gave an easy response: You can buy one in the key auction. The rest is up to you, off you go now.
The key auctions were a stop-gap measure while the devs got Rust in shape to transition to the standalone Unity package (which it has used since it was on Steam) instead of the webplayer. Switching to the standalone meant Mac and Linux "compatibility" (with lots of issues), where the webplayer was Windows-only, and it meant they could get Rust on Steam.
Rust launched on Steam because nothing else that they were doing was working. The key auctions were not popular and generated a lot of complaints and accusations of money-grubbing, but they were a necessary evil that served to shut up a lot of the hype frenziers who actually posted on this forum that they would die if they didn't get a Rust key. Yeah? Well, here's the auction, there are 25 keys, price starts at $250, prove it by grabbing one before everyone else outspends you because they wanted them more.
Everything that I have said is buried in the archives of the Rust subforum if you care to read it. I may have simplified for efficiency or slightly embellished for comedy, but this happened.
Rust has been a nonstop hype popularity train, dragging the devs behind it. And, really, it's popularity the game doesn't deserve in its current state. I think the Steam consumer public is a bunch of morons who need to research their purchases better.
As for the curse of popularity, FatFlint, imagine if you had 400,000 pairs of eyes watching you every day, observing how you look after your kids and tut-tutting and shaking their heads whenever some of the huge mass disapprove of something you've done. I don't know what you do professionally or as a hobby, but you mentioned you had kids, so it's what I have to work with. I'd like to point out I'm not judging your actual parenting skills, nor do I want to know anything about your family, this doesn't need to get creepy.
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This is EXACTLY the time to do a rewrite... when do you suppose they do it? After even more people have started playing?
Talk about backwards logic...
x 30
x 7
x 2
x 2
x 1
x 1
x 1
x 1
Late x 1
Funny x 1
Informative x 1
Zing x 1
