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Post #1My friend got VAC banned and says he [B]wasn't hacking but i don't believe him. I think he was hacking. But he wont stop saying it was him "glitching" through a wall. My question is there any possible way that he wasn't hacking.
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Nope, VAC only detects injection or tampering of the game files while the game is running. It's very common for cheaters to claim it was a glitch or that they changed their gamma settings or something.
Don't let them trick you, VAC is very rarely wrong and when it is it gets fixed QUICK.
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He hacked. No one you can be banned without hacking. Or editing you're game files.
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Unfortunately not, VAC catches cheat signatures while the game is running, if it sees a change in anything through .exe or .dll injection methods it'll flag the account and ban him over a long period of time (Usually used for reviewing the bans in case anything went wrong.) He'd be unbanned if it was false.
Only way he can appeal is Steam Support, no other way really.
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Aaah the good old glitching through walls. A classic.
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Here's how he can prove he wasn't hacking.
He can file a ticket with Steam Support saying they made a mistake. And then wait as long as a week for them to reply.
And then when Steam Support unbans him and replies to his ticket saying they've done that, he can take a screenshot of it and show you.
And if the screenshot he shows you instead says something like "This ban will not be lifted" then you know he's a liar as well as a cheater. And if he won't show you a screenshot at all and Steam Support has had time to respond, he's definitely lying.
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That's not entirely true.
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yep people get unbanned all the time.
(User was permabanned for this post ("alt of mrlordsmexy" - postal))
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Totals to 0.006%, which is much different than all the time.
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I think the previous poster may have been being facetious.
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That's taken directly from their own article about VAC. However, mistakes aren't "cheating" and shouldn't have been caught by VAC in the first place. That article essentially assumes that VAC is perfect and lays down the law, up front, that there are no second chances for cheating so don't even bother asking if you've been legitimately caught and know it.
The fact that VAC is in fact not perfect and that false positives do happen once in a blue moon is just a complication when the point is to tell legitimate cheaters to fuck off in a professional way. People who are genuinely banned for a mistake get handled on a case-by-case basis. It's bad marketing to admit weakness in your all-powerful (as far as VAC status goes) anti-cheat solution.
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It's a possibility, yeah, but—glitching through a wall doesn't trigger a VAC ban. If your friend's telling you that's when he got VAC banned, then he's probably lying. There are few situations where something like that could indirectly get you banned, but I've never heard of it actually happening (as it's pretty specific, and thusly rare).
Contrary to popular statements, though, no one here actually knows how VAC works, or what types of things could cause a false positive. The VAC glitches that get quickly fixed are the ones that end up banning large amounts of players; smaller ones either get reversed or Valve assumes the process was an attempt to hack and leaves the ban. People who do a lot of code-to-hardware programming should especially be careful.
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They're popular statements because they're based on information provided by Valve, the only source where information regarding VAC should be trusted, since it's their software.
We've heard the argument you've made before, but it's just silly to think that with the (at least) 3000 or so people who have been banned from Rust no one has heard or seen proof of a single false ban.
Edited:
J!NX has all of the information about VAC and posts it all the time, it's all direct quotes from Valve.
That's how people know how VAC works, at least enough to understand that false bans (essentially) don't happen.
Edited:
Oh, duh, it's in this thread already lol.
C'mon, AmagicalFishy... just do some research about it. Your argument is pretty invalid, and that's not me trolling or trying to be a jerk, that's just a fact.
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If VAC was substantially more prone to false positives than its defenders say it is (unless they say there are never false positives, 100% of the time, in which case they're delusional and ignorant and can be ignored), there'd be class action suits against Valve, because VAC essentially deprives you of paid content, especially if you get hit with a VAC ban on a Source game that bans across all games on its engine (like TF2). That's not something Valve is going to take lightly.
Add in the fact that a TF2 ban also results in all items from your TF2 backpack that aren't Mann Co. purchases being permanently deleted, and you have a potential for a very serious material loss for someone who's VAC banned. That's not something Valve's going to trust to a "mostly works" system. They're going to need that system to be as close to perfect as possible.
And human verification is performed on disputes, so even if VAC made a mistake, someone will check out what's going on and make sure that you were actually cheating when VAC queued up a ban on you.
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I wouldn't make my statements without having done my research.
There is no way for a Steam employee to know whether or not a foreign, kernel-level program is, say, a school project—or a private hack. Valve always assumes it's cheating, unless it's a well known plugin or something.
I understand that Valve gives a summary of how VAC works; I've seen it, but people seem to have this impression that VAC looks for files in your game folder, picks up a cheat, then bans you—and that's it. There are a lot of different ways of cheating, and a lot of different means VAC takes to prevent these. I'm not going to bother arguing; that'd be dumb, but my statements hold true. False positives are rare, but possible, and not rare enough to assume they never happen when someone asks for help.
To the OP: Your friend was probably hacking.
elixwhitetail, I agree. VAC probably bans a huge amount of accounts a day. On top of that, most of the few people who come to ask for help, saying they shouldn't have been banned, are probably lying.
This does not mean I'm not going to give someone the benefit of the doubt. As you said, VAC isn't flawless and those who think it is are delusional. Giving someone the benefit of the doubt literally has no negative consequences.
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Of course he was. But, this is facepunch!
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What? When did someone say this? This is entirely NOT how VAC works and you're the first person I've seen say this.
Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is exactly what they want you to do. They cheated, they got caught, they remember seeing on the cheat forums that they could claim it was a bug and get unbanned, then they come here.
When you give them the benefit of the doubt you're also validating their stupid strategy.
As someone said above, 0.006% of all VAC bans were false-positives. That's close enough to zero that it's safe to assume that any VAC ban is correct.
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N... no. When I give someone the benefit of the doubt, I tell them it sucks their account was banned, and to contact Steam because no one here can do anything about it. That if they did hack and they're lying, there's pretty much no hope for them, but if they didn't, I hope it gets fixed.
I do not berate them, insult them, call them a liar, and revel in their being banned (that was the whole point of the too long discussion in the other thread; I'm not sure exactly what you thought I was arguing).
Also, I've seen many people say something like "VAC checks for injected and altered files and that's it."
I uh... what exactly are you disagreeing with me on?
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No one would also assume you, too, don't know how VAC works and yet you somehow know how it works enough to state whether or not a steam employee would know a foreign or school project program is VS a private hack?
Then again; I'm probably reading too far in... assuming they both inject into the game, is there that much of a difference?
I have no idea why a school project would have to inject itself into the game anyways.
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Most of the time, they haven't bothered to do even the simplest research, because they've created a new thread on FP when nobody on this forum can do anything to help them, since, you know, Valve runs Valve Anti-Cheat.
But sometimes they do say they've been to Steam Support and Steam Support "wouldn't help them". Translation: Their VAC ban has been confirmed valid.
I would give people more respect and more benefit of the doubt if they did not show up pig-ignorant and whiny and only caring about being unbanned no matter what they have to say or do to make it happen. The total disrespect for the FP community (by making a new thread when it will do no good) and the high likelihood that they are a lying cheater trying to weasel out of the consequences of their own poor decisions means that we tend to treat these threads with a dim view, especially if OP's story is almost word-for-word what we've heard before every other time it's happened.
Welcome to Facepunch. We don't have to be fair or nice, and we've gotten pretty fed up with people whose very first post on the forum is to dispute a VAC ban that must have been applied unfairly. The more indignant they get, the more likely it is they're lying, usually.
The very first VAC ban wave thread was the age of innocence for the Rust forum. It was when some of us, myself included, considered that there might be an error in VAC with some of the 300+ bans that were handed out at once. We gave people the benefit of the doubt, we gave their lies credibility, we listened to their stories and said, "Well, only Valve knows for sure."
And then garry contacted Valve and conferred with them, and he confirmed that not a single one of the bans was a false positive, ergo nobody was getting unbanned and everyone in the thread who whined about an "invalid" VAC ban was a cheating liar.
Over the course of that week, this scenario played itself out dozens of times as stragglers trickled in days after the ban. They often were found to have accounts on well-known cheat forums, and in some cases were actively posting on both Facepunch (about their "false" ban) and those forums (about the cheat they used being detected because they've just been righteously banned). They are shameless about it.
A week after the first ban wave, another VAC ban wave came down the pipe, and another "I was falsely banned by VAC" thread happened, and the cycle repeated itself almost word for word, complete with the slow inflow of late whiners over the week.
Every single time another VAC ban wave culled tens or hundreds of accounts, we got to watch the whole thing happen all over again, exactly according to routine.
And then Cheatpunch came into being and caught over a thousand people by total surprise. A fun activity is using the Cheatpunch lookup tool on playrust.eu and looking up Steam IDs in the pre-Cheatpunch threads. Many of these "innocents" are not only still VAC banned, but they were caught by Cheatpunch as well.
So, "innocent until proven guilty" isn't really a thing that exists here anymore because it's been abused to the breaking point. FP welcomes new members who read the rules and lurk around a bit to learn how things are done here. 98% of the time, the VAC whiners are the exact opposite of that and don't care how disruptive they are to the forum and community in their desperation to get unbanned. They aren't going to get a welcome party with cake and balloons for their poor behaviour.
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Injected code and altered memory is not the same as a file in the game dir.
Edited:
Actually, the fact that you assume that "injected and altered files" == "cheat file in game dir" tells me that you really don't know anything about how VAC works.
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Where... where did I assume "injected and altered files" == "cheat file in game dir" ... ? I know injected code is not the same as an altered file. I said that I've seen people say that VAC checks for injected and altered files—and, while it does do that, this is not all it does, as you stated: Injected code and altered memory is not the same as a file.
Dude, you genuinely seem like you're looking for things to start an argument about, it's kind of shitty. If you're not, then I apologize for the misunderstanding, but I don't quite understand where you're getting at, and I'm absolutely not about to spend even 10% of the time here that I spent in some other thread.
elixwhitetail, I can understand that—but there is no situation where I condone such... malice. It's toxic, and even if someone seems to deserve it, trying to justify it, and people thusly accepting it lets it spread into a lot of different threads. I get the impression vultures circling in a desert, just waiting for something to jump on.
Edited:
impression of*
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Nah, I'm not trying to cause issues or anything, but you said that you've seen many people say that's how VAC works, and I've never seen anyone say that and I spend way too much time on this forum.
If you're going to say that "people" say "this" then make sure what you're (essentially) quoting is correct.
That said, I simply disagree with your approach with the "IM BANNED WTF NO HAX" threads. To me, it seems like you want to hold their hand and say "it's okay, I'm sure you didn't cheat" and on the other side of the internet the asshole (who totally knows he cheated) is laughing because they think their plan will work.
Of course, it won't work, so the joke's on them either way.
I will (and so will others) totally admit that the banned threads can be very entertaining to read and reply to, because these cheaters are just really really dumb and they'll say anything to try and convince people that they're legit.
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I don't want to hold anyone's hand—but at the same time, I think when enough people advocate it, the community ends up being really... bad. It seems like there are always several people ready to (pretty maliciously) accuse and "prove" someone is a hacker for any possible reason or stretch of logic whenever there's a thread of someone asking for help (not necessarily "I am banned!" threads).
It's like watching an episode of Jerry Springer and thinking "This... this is totally unnecessary. Just say 'Can't help. Ask Steam.' and be done with it."
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Lol now the real problems are changing "There was a glitch,i used it and VAC banned me,i'll not do it again,pls unban me oh mighty facepunch" Yesterday we had a similar thread around.
Glitches won't make you VAC banned but Admin ban may happen,if spotted.(Community servers)
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Sorr to tell you but that's not true. I know some kernel-level programmers and am testing new codes(/drivers/fixes) for them from time to time. Guess what? No VAC ban. As long as your krnel-level code isn't used to modify the data of the game in RAM you're safe and why should a driver or somthing like that do this? Also don't you think VAC sends a copy of the modified codes to Valve so they are able to see exactly what it did (read: Is a "scool project" (again: I fail to see why some kernel-level code should change userspace code) or a hack) ?
Funny x 4
Agree x 1
Friendly x 1
Dumb x 6
Artistic x 1
Winner x 1
