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Post #41I was doing homework, not sleeping. Also, I'm not the OP.
This is fair. In this case, asking for help and claiming innocence would be the equivalent of asking for a retrial. In a retrial, the fact that a person was convicted before is not evidence against them.
You can change the analogy around if you want, but it doesn't alter the point. The analogy is just as straight before as it is now. (Though if you don't like the analogy, or if the analogy is inconsistent, we can... just use a different analogy. If you find a flaw in a comparison, that doesn't necessarily change the point being made, it just means the comparison wasn't useful as a conceptual tool.)
Now I'm going to sleep. ;)
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I don't see where anyone said *you* were the OP. It's pretty well established who the OP was and who they were talking about when they said the OP had gone to "sleep." They were taking about...the OP...which just to reiterate is why they referred to him as the "OP."
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Op starts a thread,the other guy continues and defend his(OP's) cause.And talking about all the crap about the VAC system and inaccuracy.
@Amagicalfishy
I'm sure about one thing that, you became suspicious with your attitude,what you typed and of course your "cheat site account".
Also when Chickenlegguy said:"He's probably sleeping" you take it personal and suddenly typed that message:IGotWorms also mentioned about the same thing at above.
So there are 2 possibilities:
You are the OP with 2 accounts,you created this thread with Zoidberg which has only 2 posts(strange enough) and you are trying to defend yourself with "AmagicalFishy" account.Also like it or not you confessed that you can "cheat" in the games while linking the cheat website and told us that you got account.
2nd. Possibility:He is your little brother,he just downloaded the hack from somewhere and get you banned and you are trying to take your account back while defending the OP and many hackers with "Vac maybe inaccurate" If you can prove VAC is inaccurate,then i'll vote for you,other than that you got no evidence,no proof but talking like a pro.
VAC issue is so simple,it's not hard to get and you do not have to think about that over and over.
You inject something to the game files,that will cause a difference between original files and modified ones.VAC can catch this and you could get banned.
Other than that if you do not trust VAC,do not buy any steam game in the first place.If you got a VAC ban,don't come over here and cry.When you created a Steam account,you actually accept their terms and i can't see anything like "Go facepunch if you have a VAC ban" in these lines.
I'm wondering about what people like you gonna do after EAC ?
Probably will blame Gary in the first place.
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You got vac banned = you cheated . Don't know why this whole discussion was necessary in the first place . In real life if someone steals your wallet would you tell him "hey man , np , I'm not gonna insult you nor report you to the police , it happens all the time!" ? I guess you wouldn't so it's the same here , they cheat , they ruin the fun for many people then they try to get unbanned(which will never happen)
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None of the people who've said "Help, I've been unjustly banned" are comparable to someone stealing your wallet (unless you, say, got aimbotted by them). They're comparable to someone who's been punished for stealing wallets, who is saying "I've been punished for something I didn't do! Help! What do I do?"
This is the whole point. I've explained in several posts (as J!NX noticed) why being VAC banned is not evidence that a person cheated.
On another, somewhat stranger note:
IGotWorms, you're... being circular again. My saying I'm not the OP comes from Snickerdoodle saying something like "Of course, OP doesn't respond again after someone asks about his profile." He said this after I stopped responding (while I was doing homework), so I thought he mistook me for the OP.
Stradosphere's post (here) exemplifies well the kind of bizarre assumptions I've been talking about.
I think, for the most part, this conversation has been exhausted. It seems what I've said before addresses what people are saying now. I genuinely had fun doing this, though.
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But they are complaining to the wallet manufacturer, not the police.
That is like saying that being in jail isn't evidence of commiting a crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence
It may be circumstantial evidence, but it IS evidence none the less.wikipedia posted:
And like in the analogy of the pickpocket the evidence is held by the police (Steam). We assert that Steam continues to do their due diligence in building their cases. Therefore we can assert that a VAC ban is evidence of cheating.
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My id is :Her0i17
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no steam id her0i17
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198119334893
is this you?
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Yes i am
Edited:
My Profile >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198119334893
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zoidberg17, the only option you have is to open a ticket with Steam Support to contest the ban.
If Steam Support says it wasn't a mistake and they won't unban you, then that is the end of it.
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I'm afraid zoidberg17, you have modified the game in such a way that VAC (Valve Anti Cheat) has said you are hacking the game.
And before you say it is incorrect:
VAC, has only ever been wrong ONCE.
VAC is a very good system and very fair.
If you wish to play the game again you must rebuy the game on another account and play without editing or modifying the base game.
There is NOTHING Facepunch CAN or WILL do about your VAC ban.
have a good day.
TL; DR
HAHAHA fuck you, you know what you did.
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It doesn't mean the moron wasn't cheating, but that is flat wrong. VAC has only banned 12,000 people by mistake once, but it has had more than one false positive, just not that huge a fuck-up.
Not one VAC ban for Rust has been reversed that we know of, but you aren't helping by being misinformed about VAC. Even a glance at the article for VAC on Wikipedia will demonstrate that you have that basic fact wrong.
zoidberg17, nobody on this forum can help you. Not even garry.
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I know, and i agree. but It's a lot simpler to explain to these cheating cretins that's it's been wrong once and only once.
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utilitron,
I agree, complaining to the wallet manufacturer is not the best course of action. But, being placed in jail is not circumstantial evidence that a person committed a crime when that person is saying "I was placed in jail and I have not committed a crime. The jailing was unjust."
I agree with what you're saying, and am aware of the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence. The circular logic, though, is in this:
"Help, I've been wrongly put in jail! I committed no crime!"
"Well, you've been put in jail, so you must have committed a crime."
The person is contesting the jailing itself (that is, the person is contesting the ban)—you can't use the jailing as evidence for why the jailing is ok. You can't use finding fingerprint as evidence for why finding a fingerprint is valid in the first place. A person being banned would be circumstantial evidence in some cases, but when the person is claiming the ban itself is inaccurate, the ban is not circumstantial evidence for itself. That would be circular.
I uh... am not sure how to word this any other way. It's been said a few different times in a few different posts. I apologize if I don't answer to anyone who comments on this same subject, but I think my point has been pretty exhaustively defined.
Edited:
agree with most of what you're saying*
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If there ever was a false positive, wouldn't literally everyone be banned
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Also i would like remind one thing,people those who bought Rust and hacked having same problem and coming to this forum and crying like "I'm not hacking,i'm a good guy,i'm a good fps player".So as most of us asking for profile id,we are witnessing that account has been banned for a few days.Some of these "cheaters" have huge amount of gameplay time at other games,yet they are receving that VAC ban after they bought Rust and their Rust playing time usually proves they cheated while playing Rust.
So there are 2 possibilities again:
1st-Steam got problems with Rust (Garry) and swinging that VAC ban hammer around and that banhammer hits an innocent guy who has not been cheated in his life.
2nd These people are really cheating and they believe "those hacks cannot be detected and says feck the police(VAC)" and starts cheating.Then they receive their VAC ban and they are coming over here with mostly fresh account,crying about a refund and justice !
So like it or not,these people are throwing their money to trash when they registered an account on a "cheat"site.
J!nx repeated over and over again about VAC ban cannot be lifted by Facepunch.
Setting your Steam profile to public will not bring you any harm unless if you got something to hide !
Forum members asking for Steam profile because it shows exactly amount of gameplay time and Vac ban time.Which leads us to precise answers.
So "some" might call VAC inaccurate but hopefully some members of this forum has their own experience coming from the past and they can see if the person is a cheater or not with their answers and attitude.
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i'm contacted steam and waiting my answer
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You've got 6 friends on Steam, all of whom own 1 or 2 games and are level 0 or 1. Your account is brand new too. You may not know this but such accounts are often referred to as disposable or throw-away accounts when given certain circumstances. They also all appear to be Brazilian. I'm guessing you're Brazilian too. There's someone with the same user name as yours registered on a popular Brazilian game hacking site. Im sure that's just a coincidence but maybe Steam mixed you up with this other Brazilian guy who goes by the name Her0I and happens to be a cheater. I mean since Steam mistakenly banned you from Rust, who knows what other kinds of mistakes they're making right?
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There's an error with this analogy.utilitron,
I agree, complaining to the wallet manufacturer is not the best course of action. But, being placed in jail is not circumstantial evidence that a person committed a crime when that person is saying "I was placed in jail and I have not committed a crime. The jailing was unjust."
I agree with what you're saying, and am aware of the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence. The circular logic, though, is in this:
"Help, I've been wrongly put in jail! I committed no crime!"
"Well, you've been put in jail, so you must have committed a crime."
The person is contesting the jailing itself (that is, the person is contesting the ban)—you can't use the jailing as evidence for why the jailing is ok. You can't use finding fingerprint as evidence for why finding a fingerprint is valid in the first place. A person being banned would be circumstantial evidence in some cases, but when the person is claiming the ban itself is inaccurate, the ban is not circumstantial evidence for itself. That would be circular.
I uh... am not sure how to word this any other way. It's been said a few different times in a few different posts. I apologize if I don't answer to anyone who comments on this same subject, but I think my point has been pretty exhaustively defined.
Edited:
agree with most of what you're saying*
If we're talking about jail, this can be because of human error or a corrupt police force if the person actually didn't commit a crime.
We're talking about VAC. It isn't operated by anyone. It's simply:
Code:if (the player has modified the game's essential files || injected a program into the game while it is running) { Place a VAC ban. } else { Don't do anything.
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I think its strange how much hate(and suspicion) is being directed at amagicalfishy for simply logically debating our, as a forum's, anger towards these ppl claiming they didnt hack. It's not up to us to condemn them, they lost their game as a consequence. I guess if nothing else understand that just because you have the option to be hateful doesnt mean you should be. Even if it's a hacker who doesnt deserve it, it doesn't cost anything to be polite.
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It's not about hatred,most of these "cheaters" have actually accounts and questions or dialogs at those cheating sites.Yet they are talking about same "crap" all the time."I'm innocent,help it's a bug or my little brother did that" This is just become annoying and i myself see those messages like spam.
All these people are coming to this forum and asking about help VAC Ban lift.As you can see,several members reminding that "VAC Ban cannot be lifted by Facepunch" all the time.It's just not hard to get or finding that "message" in this forum.
So just think for a second,"cheaters" believe Facepunch banned them and asking from both forum admins and forum members.With that request, they already give forum members and moderators chance to tell their opinions and of course blaming them for what did they did (cheating).
J!NX posting Vac ban video all the time and i admire his patience,some of us unfortunately has not been gifted with that virtue called "patience" and starting to give more harsh answers more than polite ones.Search button is a friend,most people are avoiding this button and creating similar topics all the time,just as like this one.So that action makes people angry because those who have been cheating over time also trolling in the forum and not putting half of that effort to use that "search" button.
Long story short,let's face it cheaters lost their account because of their foolishness.There is no way to reverse that process or make it "legit".They are just throwing away their money for nothing.
Amagicalfishy talking about a crack or failure in a system which he cannot proved or shown any evidence.That's why some people quotes him all the time.
VAC is really a simple system,we are not turning that into "more complex" situation.If you modify game files no matter what,you could and will be banned.
Comparing jail system and cops with a system like this just wrong too.VAC is not controlled by some kind of cartel or gang or any human being.Especially not controlled by members or moderators of this forum.
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VAC will not ban you for glitches. VAC only bans for editing the game files or process. I would say research VAC before you post about how you got banned it saves everyone a lot of time and forum popcorn.
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Providing a logical argument isn't "hateful".
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Yea and vac means valve anti bug/glitch .... oh w8
Vac checks for injects not for bugs.
Why hve those poor hackers 50 bucks and more for hacks but dont hve 14 bucks for a new cd code, totally poor.
Go to check daddys credit card and dont cry
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People(cheaters) using glitch as a word instead of "hacks" in these days. There are already funny examples around, like: "i have found a glitch in the game so i got banned" "Door glitch banned me !" and so on.That makes me laugh ofc.
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After some cheat maker told the losers to try it to report it as a bug to maybe get unbanned its now cheater tradition. Once in a while you see some variations on what was suggested to say but its all the same amount of shit.
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Very true but i must admit they are really putting much effort for that(defending themselves),i think that "cheat-maker" is really a master about brainwash operation as well.He/she makes them believe in a solution about unban at Facepunch forums.
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It would be a debate if the user actually presented logical reasoning. But everything I have read from his texts has been from opinions of others read over and over again. And of those others, 9/10 of them were the OP's claiming the random catastrophe of being VAC banned.
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You're right but you misunderstand my point. In the part of the quote of mine you bolded im referring to our hateful treatment of those who post on here claiming they were falsely banned. Because I know ppl will post on here saying they deserve it, I'll say again that just because you can be hateful that doesnt mean that you should be.
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I'm so happy someone is getting banned with so many hackers around. I only hope is a legit ban, but I assume so for now.
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I disagree with this. From how I read his comments they sounded like he was 'presenting logical reasoning' as to why our anger towards these ppl as cheaters is unwarranted. He repeated himself and attempted to explain it differently because nobody seemed to get his point.
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The people that have been banned were cheating. There's no way around it. VAC isn't wrong often, and if someone was wrongfully banned then there would likely be more cases of it.
With the (at least) 3000 players who have been banned from Rust, I'd assume that between the FP forums, Steam forums, and the game itself SOMEONE would have heard about an overturned ban. It would be common knowledge.
The people who claim that a glitch banned them or that they changed their gamma settings or w/e bs they're spouting are just trying to get unbanned. They know they cheated, they're just trying to get around it so they can go back to cheating.
That's why people give them a hard time, they're trying to beat the system.
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