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Post #1First of all, I'd like to point out that I absolutely love Rust. It's a game like no other, into which I've put hundreds of hours, and I believe all of them are well spent.
It has come to my attention, however, that the developers are way behind schedule with content updates. Now I don't want to provoke hateful comments towards anybody, but there has been a significant number of threads on this forum concerning the speed of Rust's development. Fact is, the last actual update that gave us any content at all (which is shared doors and beds) was pushed onto live servers on Jan 26th, exactly 2 months ago, if I'm not mistaken. With the huge amount of popularity Rust has achieved and a significant sum of money that has been forwarded to Facepunch, I can't help but say that the devs aren't really living up to most people's expectations.
I might not be well informed; maybe the devs are busy with something that I (we?) aren't aware of, or they could simply be (hopefully) preparing a massive update. If anyone could correct me or fill me in on information I am unfamiliar with, it would be much appreciated. The Rust Trello isn't updated frequently at all.
I will never give up on Rust; I have faith in the devs, I only with they could work a little faster.
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^^^ *rage-quits the next day*
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http://playrustwiki.com/wiki/Changelog
Lockpicks, new models, the new sky/moon/water system, new UI... content has been added. Not all of it is gameplay content, and that's because this is early days, setting the foundation of the game properly. Content is something that is going to come in the future, and that is the life of an alpha.
If the posters in this forum are anything to go by, 90% of the Rust community carries wildly unrealistic expectations of what Rust is, how fast it's being developed, how far along it is in development, and how software development works in the first place. They are not a reliable or knowledgeable metric in any capacity in this discussion, something they've proven time and time again.
The game is not going to be developed 25% faster just because sales are high. It simply does not work like that. The devs are hiring, but you can't just bring 50 people on-board and have them get to work at 100% output levels overnight. The dev team is pretty small (15 or less people, that I'm aware of), and they're working on a lot of the foundation work right now, so new things to do are going to be slow in coming yet.
You're just going to have to be patient and wait for Rust to grow into the great game it has the potential to become.
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As I said on other topic: what is annoying me right now is the lack of communication by the devs. Seriously, last time Garry spoke with us was 20 days ago, and that was about the "updateless week". Yes, he was clear saying that they were working on "foundations" so they can add content more quickly on the future. We all understand that! But hey, we were used to have one update per week at least, and then all of sudden we have like 1 month without updates. Please, don't mention 18th march update, because that update was only bug fixes from the new sky update (which took place 25th february!).
What would make me happy right now and also the majority of the community? Just a response from Garry saying how things are going at the moment. It would be enough.
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[Removed] I had some weird double post issue, and thought I lost the post, so I reposted below.
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No it wouldn't. People begged and moaned for the bug fixes and then when they came everyone said "wtf is this shit?"
Quit expecting things from the devs. It's unrealistic, they have lives, too. This is exactly what you should have been expecting when you bought a game that has that big blue EARLY ACCESS banner.
Edited:
Things in the Unity Store still get made by people...
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I am curious, what experience or knowledge do you have that makes you a "reliable or knowledgeable metric (what does that even mean?) in any capacity in this discussion"? Do you develop games or even software or manage projects or those that do?
That is an appeal to the extreme argument. 25% faster from hiring 50 people overnight at 100% output levels? How about 2-3 in the last two months (since the millions of new revenue was achieved) at 30% 'output level'? Would that be doable? Maybe they've already done that, and we don't know, but neither do you.
In the absence of knowing, we are left to wonder out loud. It surely seems slower than a couple months ago. It's not unreasonable to me to wonder out loud why a company that said they were going to focus on providing weekly updates didn't even last a month doing that, even after getting a huge amount of capital. We don't know all the facts, but please don't act like it's completely unreasonable to question it. You don't know any more than we do, and your appeals to logic don't come from any more of an informed position than the 90% of posters that you are criticizing AFAICT.
Now there's something we are in complete agreement on.
Edited:
Some people moaned about the bug fixes. Some people moaned after the fact. Those weren't all the same exact people. Yes, some people will never be satisfied, but you can't discount all the reasonable folks asking for reasonable things because of those people.
I have bought a number of games with the big blue early access banner. It is those games that led me to find the communication on this project a bit lacking.
It is not unreasonable to expect feedback. For example, is the delay switching weapons after firing the bow a bug or feature? Who knows. We can waste time posting it in the bug section without ever getting confirmation, but it might not even be a bug. This is exactly the kind of communication you want to engage in with your community during an alpha if you actually have a purpose to allowing early access other than raising revenue (which apparently shouldn't be expected to be applied towards development according to some folks). No 'it's an alpha excuse' works here.
I deleted my old post, sorry, but this is in response to me saying that we don't know who they've hired for sure, but there was a rumor that they hired the guy that built the sky they just bought from unity? I am not sure what point you are trying to make.
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Rusts current state is not alpha regardless of what anyone including devs/creators say. They dont know what alpha means
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Okay, so...
1) What is Rust, if not alpha?
2) Who are you to tell the devs what their development phase is and that they're mislabeling their own jobs?
3) In your own words, what is an alpha? What does that word mean? What does something have to be to qualify as alpha-state software?
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Umm, what?
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I am not in agreement with everything posted in this thread, BUT!
Your fanboyism is strong, so strong, that i had to tip my fedora and adjust my shades.
Do you seriously doubt that people know they have a life outside of developing rust?
The stuff that is ready on trellos art page f.ex, where is it? "Its not animated yet, be patient" Fuck, who cares, reuse the old rigs. Its an alpha we expect it.
What i don't expect, is developers so fucking scared to push an update and breaking something, that they end up completely paralyzed.
I realize the game might end up breaking more often, but who cares. We are in this alpha to witness the birth of something awesome. Get rid of that fucking testserver, and let us do the testing. Who cares about frequent wipes, everything can be achieved in a single day, albeit, on a smaller scale.
Take the fanboyism elsewhere, i see you shilling here so often. It is not doing Garry a favor, and i imagine hes a kickass guy, like the rest of the team.
Same goes for you Elix. Stop defending them with the broken analogies...
"The game is not going to be developed 25% faster just because sales are high. It simply does not work like that."
Is that like saying you wont gain more weight by eating one pound of butter, as opposed to one pound of cotton? What? Another broken analogy? Damn right, that analogy is completely devoid of any meaning.
Let them do their fucking work, but allow them to get stressed like any other company under pressure. We are the investors. INCLUDE US IN THE PROCESS, and no, im not referring to another poll.
That was all, have a happy nice sunny day.
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Calling everyone you disagree with a fanboy doesn't help your argument, in fact, it seriously detracts from it because now I definitely won't take anything you say seriously.
If I'm a Rust fanboy, then your the anti-Rust fanboy. You just want to see the game fail and will always tell them how horrible of a job they're doing.
See? It sucks to get lumped into a stupid category like "fanboy" just because of an opinion.
They aren't "scared" to push updates... where would you even get that information? Did you realize that some (if not most/all) of the devs were in San Francisco for GDC?
People just don't understand that this game has years of development left. It's been on Steam for like 4 months, it's just getting started.
I'm proud to be a "fanboy", as you call it. Just because I like the game, I want to see it succeed, and I trust the devs to deliver something that will be awesome.
Since I've already put over 200 hours into the game I've gotten WAYYY more fun for my money than almost any other game. That's a damn good deal to me and I'm looking forward to more.
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Yup, agree with the thread, there is a trello box says explore convar to disable/lesen headbob, and man has that thing been sitting there for a long, long long long time. Ive probably just lost all my hope in the devlopment of this game, who knows what they are up to? I hope Garry hasnt decided to climb a moutain like Rocket Dean Hall did just after releasing his broken game. How hard is it for a first person game to have a headbob option added to it?! Its like a staple for all First-person only games with headbob, have a fucking option to turn it off. And if there isnt an option for it, how fucking hard is it to add one in?!
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So you're saying they should just hire a bunch of new developers on the team, that haven't been involved with the project and they will surely get it finished faster.
Well...looks like you got him there.
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Where did i say that?
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That line of thinking is just as misguided as people who think throwing money at the project will make it finished in a couple of weeks.
There are plenty of people familiar with developing on the Unity engine that in theory could help speed up development. I believe they have hired some additional developers since the early access was very successful and they did this with the belief that it would eventually speed up development. DayZ did the exact same thing, they ended up having a very successful early access release and hired additional developers to speed up the process.
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Well, if anyone has a problem with the current development speed of Rust...guess what? Facepunch is hiring!
http://www.facepunchstudios.com/jobs/
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As I explained above, unless you are incompetent at project management, incompetent at hiring, or are completely flush with people, then yes, hiring a bunch of new developers will get it finished faster than if you hire no one at all. Brooks's law implies that adding a bunch of developers after a project is already late won't bring it back ahead of schedule and will likely even cause it to take longer than if you added no one. FP is not in the scenario where Brooks's law applies.
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No. Stop. Stop this.
You are not an investor.
You are a customer.
You have been invited to give your feedback to Rust, but you are not an investor and you do not hold equity in Rust. You bought the game early. You didn't give it venture capital funding.
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Cant help to the development, if they don't decide to. Said if I would buy it we could help the development, i guess at a snail pace....
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Source? Where did they say that you would get to help development?
Perhaps they said you would be supporting them, that's true. Perhaps they said that you would get to test features, that is also true.
Never did they say that they had to take your input, never did they say that they would have to give you weekly updates, never did they make any promises about a timeline or what the game would eventually become.
No one is entitled to anything that has to do with the development process. You bought a game that wasn't finished. By paying them $20 you helped support the development and now you get a game that will eventually be finished.
That's it.
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We are an early access participant. Do we have rights? No. Is it reasonable to have expectations of good communication? I say yes. Is FP missing an opportunity to use thousands of folks eagerness and willingness to help? Debatable, but I feel they are.
The example I keep using:
There is currently a delay after firing a bow when switching to a new weapon. Is this a bug? No one knows. Posting it to the bugs forum won't garner any feedback. It wasn't communicated as a feature or change. Not communicating on things like this leaves your early access participants feeling like you don't care or can't be bothered to take the time to communicate, and long term, that is no way to properly leverage your early access participants, IMO.
Now, they could have decided to only do early access to raise capital, but according to some folks, it's silly of us to think that that capital ought to be having an effect by now.
Edited:
Even customers can have expectations, and crazily enough, some of those expectations might actually be reasonable!
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The bottom line is we as consumers and investors expect a little more communication in a stage like this. The company wouldn't be where it is today if alpha access were free or if participation was reserved. So yes we expect to be informed every once in a awhile about the status of your work progress. We bought an incomplete game to help you further your wealth and grow it into something larger that we can all enjoy. If your game is a train wreck then don't expect people to stay for long. If your communication is lacking then don't expect people to stay for long. Shit at least lie to us and tell us your working on something to tickle our fancies. There have been no major updates in the two months I've played. Nothing worth noting. A few graphic changes and bug fixes. No major content upgrades or new activities. Communicate or fall off like the rest of the companies that followed the same path. Trello lately has just been full of fapping material. Still waiting on a decent gsp to host your game without every player rubber banding all over the fucking map. How do you expect people to give you accurate feedback when the server providers are hosted in 3rd world countries with dial up network speed? Step it up face punch, all we see is talk.
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Keys were free, until demand outstripped server resources (and therefore key demand) by at least 50x from idiots getting on the Reddit hype train after they made Rust go viral, primarily on the false assumption that it was built to be Minecraft+DayZ and therefore attracted the worst of both fanbases.
The devs never wanted this popularity in the first place, and even cutting off the supply of keys entirely for a whole month was doing nothing to stop the flood of new users signing up to do nothing but beg for Rust keys. The only thing they could do was begin to satisfy demand, starting with the key Dutch auctions, prior to being able to transition to a standalone exe instead of the Unity webplayer and launching on Steam.
You are not an investor. Stop saying that.
The fact that you fail to recognize a completely overhauled sky/water system, door sharing, Steam group whitelisting, a complete replacement of the UI framework, and the creation of the item editor as significant changes is why your opinion is not likely to hold very much water with the devs. They aren't new maps or building pieces for you to have fun with, but welcome to alpha. If you don't like it, go away and play games that are actually fun for six months and then check back in on how Rust is doing. I'm totally serious. You'll be happier that way. This is not a demand for you to leave the forums, however.
Anyone going to try and claim that this is unclear?
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Did I buy the game? Yeah, that makes me an investor. Door sharing, a new sky and an item editor took 2 months? I fail to see how that is even something to brag about. I like rust, I really do but being in the dark for weeks at a time is really getting old. UPDATE US! What's so hard about spending 10 minutes to type up a few paragraphs letting your players feel like they are part of an alpha.
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"An investor is a person who allocates capital with the expectation of a financial return."
You, sir, are not an investor. You are a game tester. You have no say in the final product whatsoever, let alone the development process.
An investor would have put tens of thousands of dollars into game development and would be getting a cut of the profits and would have some say in development. You put in $20, you get the game. And that's that.
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You have no idea about software development. It's perfectly reasonable that it takes two months to implement a completely overhauled sky/water system, door sharing, a complete replacement of the UI framework, an item editor and Steam group whitelisting.
I'm not sure why you omitted the last two things, either, especially because it's likely that those took the longest time to work on. As the term "framework" hints at, replacing a framework is like replacing the foundation or the structural pillars of a building. It's a very difficult task, and you make sure that your building is still structurally sound and won't collapse in the next dozens of years.
You're also not an investor. The definition of the verb "invest" is "to commit (money or capital) in order to gain a financial return". You're not going to get any financial return here unless you're planning to offer a hosting service for Rust servers. All you paid for is a license to play the in-development alpha version of Rust, nothing more. Don't like it? Don't play it.
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Fuck, just remove headbobbing >.>
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Rust is a game not going anywhere it seems.
There's an insane number of bugs, the most annoying being: Foundations breaking, getting kicked for a "violation" when closing a door and walking through, getting kicked for a violation by entering certain areas of the map, animals going through the map, glitchy shadows, floating rocks/buildings/ammo wedged in the ground.
Wtf was Garry thinking when he said this "We'll replace zombies with animals so people won't complain when we replace them", bitch please.
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Given there is no actual commitment for a release date and the game currently being in an alpha state its hard to argue that they are running 'behind'.
In all honesty if you look at the technologies their currently exploring with a view to implement into the game such as procedural terrain and potentially voxel's then I would have to argue that they are actually well ahead and you simply need to be more patient.
If you are struggling with the seeming lack of updates you should play something else for a while and come back to Rust when the next update is released.
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"You hate them. We know. They’re just plugging a gap for now."
http://playrust.com/6th-feb-update/
Game isn't done yet. Expect bugs. Expect development delays. All part of the development process.
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Man another one of these threads. I've been playing Rust before it came out on steam and I'm more than happy at the rate they are pumping out updates. My best advice is don't bite the hand that feeds you and stop complaining and be patient.
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"we haven't totally decided where the game is headed.."
"..we have a plan"
o-o-kay ...
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i understand other things like new inventory system, sky, and water must be done first to start working on the bigger picture, however the fact is that people not feeling the changes is what makes everyone frustrated, what rust is failing at unlike other alpha's is the implementation of even the slightest gameplay/visuals often enough, update the look of a model or change some small thing that everyone uses constantly in the game so people can "feel" the change. changing the texture or look or mechanic of one small thing a week will keep the people happy while the real work on the game is being done, as the dev's are definitely working hard at what they want this game to be, focusing everything they got on the big long game, they need to do a little bit of the small game to, to keep updates annd interest and the feeling of being part of a developing game.
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Totally understandable to desire weekly changes, even if it's just some little things, so people feel the changes. However it's not as easy as having the idea and just adding the idea in, it takes time to develop the art assets (which include 3d mesh models and texture applications with multiple filters for bumpmaps, LOD, etc) and then adding the items in requires tremendous troubleshooting and codework to assure that the item a) fits along the guidelines of spawning frequency, durability, etc. and b) doesn't break the whole game or other assets in being there. It's like balancing plates on sticks, and then swapping a plate for a different sized plate. Gotta be careful you don't drop the plate and break it, or knock your plate into other plates and break them, etc etc.
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This. ive been playing for like 7-8 month, and the changes ive seen since the dutch auction are pretty big. update speed has been fairly consistent, and despite common forum-beliefs, speedy. im apart of 9 early access games, and this updates the fastest. sure they may not be very content filled, but what the fuck do you expect for weekly updates? Content filled updates, or timely updates. you get one not both.
if this is news to you than you should read more. this was said a looong time ago.
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He's a dissatisfied customer. And he will share his dissatisfaction with others. Based on how many copies of rust that have been sold and how many people are still playing not many people are very happy with the game. You yourself good sir only have a few hours played in the last week. You spend more time trolling the forums here then playing the game.
Oh and everyone understands what an average is. The average player count is down in rust. http://steamcharts.com/app/252490#3m It's going to keep going down until a real patch comes out, one adding something to do in the game and not just red bears or shiny new rocks.
You've responded to your share of unhappy or dissatisfied customers, it must feel to you like you work at facepunch with all the PR you do for them. I think of you as their customer service now.
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And as usual, after a patch the numbers will skyrocket up for a week or so, than slowly fade down. in my opinion, 25k average players per day is solid, alot of AAA games dont even get that many players.
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FYI the last two "patches" didn't really improve the numbers. Sure someday one of the patches that adds new content will. However by then Rust will have even more dissatisfied customers. Less people are playing every week, look. http://steamcharts.com/app/252490#3m
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You don't even respond to my post that you quoted yet you say that I'm the one that's trolling?
Also, you don't need to play the game every day to have an opinion. I've put quite a bit of time into the game and I'm sure I'll play it again down the line.
I don't feel like I work for FP... I post in other parts of the FP forum as well, not just the Rust section.
I'm not surprised you singled me out, you've been rating almost all of my posts dumb for the last couple weeks.
Agree x 18
Dumb x 8
Friendly x 2
Winner x 1
Disagree x 9
Late x 1
Zing x 2
Artistic x 1
Funny x 2
Optimistic x 1
