[TNT the GREAT]

To solve this matter IMO we ALL have whether to set gamma up or we ALL don't screw with it AT ALL due to the fact that at night time we all suppose to get the same light effect equally OR i personally call it unfair game,as simple as this.

[Pyroknight]

Yeah, someone said to add a particle effect or something that would get more visible with increased gamma settings so that your screen would be a giant mess if you made the gamma too high.

[J!NX]

deadpool{SWE} posted:

You seem to think you need a super computer to play rust.
you only need a half assed one to play the game without lagg.
just because i can play the game without lagg, does that mean i'm cheating? I'm just playing the game the way it's supposed to be played.

Could hackers make the same argument? "I'm so bad at the game so i need hacks."
No the can't.

changing the gamma isn't a hack

nice half assed weak argument but it's not even slightly close lmao

[tbot]

TNT the GREAT posted:

To solve this matter IMO we ALL have whether to set gamma up or we ALL don't screw with it AT ALL due to the fact that at night time we all suppose to get the same light effect equally OR i personally call it unfair game,as simple as this.

The gamma correction is needed as people have to adjust the gfx output to their screen. Even older screens tend to darken out and you need to compensate for that.

Why is it so hard to understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction

[Pallaptink]

thelionnessa posted:

The purpose of creating sound (distance, field of depth) quiet until right behind you is to increase danger. Turning up your volume gives you super hearing, the same as turning up gamma gives you super vision. Both are exactly the same and that argument is not weak. You may not like it because it makes your entire post irrelevant, but I can't help that. If I can't see well enough to get what I need done, I make it easier to see. If I can't hear well enough, I make it easier to hear. If I can't move as quick as I want and my character doesn't respond properly, I fix my sensitivity.

You could also argue that mouse sensitivity gives you a huge advantage, I am just unsure if Rust (spinning or turning around) is effected by mouse sensitivity. Other games, yes. However, your swamp example is equally a weak argument? Why? Because like with hearing and seeing, humans turning at a faster rate than the game intended is equally "cheating" based off your example. You don't have to be in a swamp to understand a human can't turn 180 in a split second, yet with the mouse settings, it's possible.

Super movement, super hearing, super vision. Everyone turn down the volume, leave our mouses at the exact same sensitivity, and keep your gamma at levels everyone feels is absolutely fair. As dumb as that sounds, is as dumb as those arguing it's cheating sounds.



I'll agree that lag, fps, and overclocking is a different argument and a bit weak. However, the point was there are many advantages and disadvantage with hardware and setting differences. Whether the devs intended every computer on earth to run their game exactly the way they envisioned it, that isn't the case. Maybe those of us with computers not so great are reverse cheating by having computers that don't play the way devs intended. Sorry devs. My 12 fps I had my first 75 hours playing was me "bucking" the system.

Next time i ll meet you with increased by 1000% sound effect i will shoot from a shoutgun into your face, so your ears will be bleeding. I think this game is supposed to make your ears bleeding. I think YOU deserve to bleed with that sence of @fair play@. Thats the price for increasing sound effects. And price for encreasing gamma should be your blindness in daytime. Nerves of human (and this game is supposed to be some kind of simulator) have some limits and diapason of work. By DRAMATICALLY increasing sound and changing gamma you are ruining sence and idea of game. I can say than, that aimbot is not hack. Why? I have java+ and c++ on my comp! I can do programm for this. Everyone can.

[TNT the GREAT]

tbot posted:

The gamma correction is needed as people have to adjust the gfx output to their screen. Even older screens tend to darken out and you need to compensate for that.

Why is it so hard to understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction

I understand how "some" people may have technical difficulty with older monitors and hardware also i do understand some medical issues regarding the night time in-game and those are excluded .BUT for normal ones is what i said earlier, oh and you can lighten the surrounding in-game during night time without the need to adjust gamma by tilting the camera to any direction ,i prefer to tilt it downward while running so i can see where i am going or make things ahead of me a lil bit visible, just try it :)

[nooblygoobly]

I have changed my Gamma. One thing I found while playing Rust is, if you use an IPS monitor you cannot see anything for about 5-10 minutes at night, and I mean nothing, not even an outline. Changing the gamma to a certain point makes it easier to see. If I am using my 2nd/3rd monitor for rust, which are LCD/TFT then I don't need to change anything.

[Frares]

Razor-users are cheaters ! configurating your mouse sensibility is cheating ! configurating your shortcut is cheating ! looking at your screen with glasses is cheating ! using Two screen is cheating ! playing with your both two hand is cheating ! playing using your brain is cheating ! playing looking at your screen is cheating (you can look at your screen through a miror only ! like medusa)? playing while your foot s touching the ground is cheating ! playing if you have more than 10 fingers is cheating (iincluding foot)!i can go far far far ! but to finish : EVERYBODY WHO S KILLING ME IS CHEATING BECAUSE I M A ANGRY !

Comon , what else ? :D

[RBMK1000]

tbot posted:

The gamma correction is needed as people have to adjust the gfx output to their screen. Even older screens tend to darken out and you need to compensate for that.

Why is it so hard to understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction

Sorry mate, but you're mixing up entirely different things.

The purpose of gamma correction in this context is to even out differences between how different screens and different graphics cards display an image. For gamma correction to work as intended you need to know what the reference has to look like. So a proper gamma correction is only possible by using dedicated measuring devices to calibrate your screen and/or manipulate your graphics card's LUT accordingly.

Your comment also suggests that people fiddling with their gamma only do it because their screens are darker than usual (which, again, is impossible for them to evaluate without proper measuring devices). I guess we all know that most of these people do it to gain an advantage and increase the visibility at night beyond what's intended.

I can also tell you that my screen is hardware calibrated using an X-Rite i1Display Pro, yet in Rust it's pretty impossible to see any other player during the night. That means, even people with a bad/unusually dark screen do not have any disadvantage compared to someone playing the game as intended, since there's no "darker than dark". If I can't see shit on a hardware calibrated monitor, what disadvantage do you have on an even darker screen? None, at all.

[GePree00]

Warm posted:

So does more RAM, a better GPU, a better CPU, bigger monitors, VOIP...the list goes on.

No. That's called a fair advantage.

[EKVO]

Warm posted:

So does more RAM, a better GPU, a better CPU, bigger monitors, VOIP...the list goes on.

Lag and low fps is NOT supposed to be a programmed game obstacle.

[thelionnessa]

AmagicalFishy posted:

Turning up the volume of your speakers does not give a player super hearing. It does not allow a player to hear things said player would not otherwise hear if the volume were at a normal level (unless there was some other factor outside of Rust, say, bad hearing or construction outside). The sound works such that you can't hear the footsteps of a person too far away (regardless of how high you turn up the volume)—that is, you can't use your speaker's volume to defeat the purpose of an implemented game feature. Turning up the volume does not give you super hearing, it just makes what you could anyway hear regularly... well... very loud.

Now, on the other hand, say that a person's volume was proportional to how "far" away a person could hear. Someone who turned their volume all the way up just to hear the footsteps of someone else a mile away would, in fact, be cheating. That is, someone who used their volume as a means of overriding a game-restriction would be cheating.

Turning up your volume is equivalent to turning up your gamma (as is your mouse sensitivity settings to make you turn at super human speeds). Wording it in other ways doesn't make a new argument or refute anything I've previously said. You hear better, your depth of hearing is better, and yes, you hear people "further" away. The further they are, the more quiet the footsteps, unless your volume is turned up.

Edited:

nooblygoobly posted:

I have changed my Gamma. One thing I found while playing Rust is, if you use an IPS monitor you cannot see anything for about 5-10 minutes at night, and I mean nothing, not even an outline. Changing the gamma to a certain point makes it easier to see. If I am using my 2nd/3rd monitor for rust, which are LCD/TFT then I don't need to change anything.

[sarcasm]But the Devs intended on you, specifically with that monitor, not being able to see. Even though on other monitors you can at least make our shapes and function some, the devs intended for your monitor to be absolutely pitch black. Don't touch the gamma. [/sarcasm]

Don't feel any guilt about turning up volume, gamma, or mouse sensitivity if it's how you enjoy playing and it helps you actually be able to play the game. I play in daylight only servers, that's how much I do not care about "night" or the devs "intentions". They allow admin to control daylight, so their intention was to let people who want it to be dark and nighttime, have their dark and nighttime. And those who don't, don't. It's a game. We play it to enjoy it. Your preference.

Edited:

GePree00 posted:

No. That's called a fair advantage.

Not to the guy at a disadvantage. Sorry.

[00alexandre]

Guys !

I have the solution against gamma abuse :

The dev Team can lower the view distance when i's night (or add a big DOF, black wall, ...), so when it's dark you cant see furthen than a few meters even if u are using gamma. This distance can be adjusted if u are using a Torch for example...

I don't know how difficult it is technically for the dev team but it will be effective !!!

[Frares]

00alexandre posted:

Guys !

I have the solution against gamma abuse :

The dev Team can lower the view distance when i's night (or add a big DOF, black wall, ...), so when it's dark you cant see furthen than a few meters even if u are using gamma. This distance can be adjusted if u are using a Torch for example...

I don't know how difficult it is technically for the dev team but it will be effective !!!

oh and what if we turn off the screen of players during 5 min ! everybody will like it !

Hum =_= And no, a cigaret should be seen at 15km with a snipe scope in realty, so let the light be seen during the night !
If you are talking about a basic "war fog" .. oh ill be so happy to feel like in my first videogame "Age of empire" ! so wonderfull graphism incoming !

[00alexandre]

Frares posted:

oh and what if we turn off the screen of players during 5 min ! everybody will like it !

What is the link with what i've said ? I find any.

[Frares]

00alexandre posted:

What is the link with what i've said ? I find any.

"black wall"

i m sory for epic sarcasm, but this topic sound non-sence since begining... guys who love the realism and dont touch just a little of their gamma should be happy to be affraid in the night more than others , because IRL some people see betterly during the night.
ive lightly touched my gama, and this is realy realy hard to see anything during the nomoon night. but i never met people who strangly seen me during the night specialy since the "new moon" update. Moreover i dont feel good to improve too much the gama, because the game could become ugly yurk, so free to you to feel afraid of other player, or diisgusted by your graphism, or just find your point between =_=
So that s why i wonder why a personnal choice become a Debate !

[00alexandre]

Ok, do i need to draw what's in my mind ? Is what Im saying so hard to undertand ?

[brunocasado]

Bernie Stacks posted:

I played rust without changing my gamma for a little while, and I found it to be pretty much impossible to play at night. I've noticed some purists(if you will) on the forum saying that rust should have pitch black night like it used to. I personally disagree, as it takes a full cycle of the day out of gameplay, and would rather see maybe nocturnal animals you can hunt or something of that nature rather than have a point in the day thats virtually unplayable outdoors without a bright "kill me please I'm over here" torch. Some people love pitch black night, and I politely disagree.

Since playing at night on my monitor was just not happening at all, I adjusted the gamma on my monitor to play. However, I didnt raise it to the point where night is as bright as day, because that definitely does give a ridiculous unfair advantage, and I've always felt like cheating in a game takes away pretty much all the satisfaction of whatever you had to cheat to do. I still have trouble understanding why people use things like aimbots, I just dont see the fun in killing someone if some code did all the work for you. When it comes to my gamma, I change it JUST ENOUGH that I can see a little better. No night vision, just a little better than zero visibility.

As rust continues its development, I'm sure we'll see one of those sliders where you adjust it enough to just barely see a logo, but until something like this (which is essential to a game where you play at night) is implemented, I'll be doing my own adjustments in my system settings. I dont deny the potential to really cheat and gain unfair advantage via this method, but until something is put in by facepunch, I wouldnt consider it a cheat or exploit, just a necessary workaround until further development happens.

TLDR:As long as you dont raise your gamma to such a high level that you cant even tell the sun went down, for some it is a necessary step.

Your thoughts?

please go play tibia.

Change hardware to take advantage is a exploit. While players try play without anything change, you is taking advantage about it. Changing gamma simply remove the immersion game. If so, what is the fun of play at night? for what that torch? for what that flashlight??

I really think you dont understand the spirit of this game.... after apocalipse... in my opinion rust don't need have night vision. This game is a survivor game. SO, i say again. Change gamma is a exploit.

[Bernie Stacks]

brunocasado posted:

please go play tibia.

Change hardware to take advantage is a exploit. While players try play without anything change, you is taking advantage about it. Changing gamma simply remove the immersion game. If so, what is the fun of play at night? for what that torch? for what that flashlight??

I really think you dont understand the spirit of this game.... after apocalipse... in my opinion rust don't need have night vision. This game is a survivor game. SO, i say again. Change gamma is a exploit.

Would you consider it cheating if you adjusted your gamma/brightness to fit your screen in the beginning using one of those "adjust the slider so you can barely see the logo on the left" kind of systems? I think if that was in the game(and I'm sure it will be eventually), then they would have a benchmark for a fair balance of darkness at night. Think back to all the games you've played where you find yourself in dark environments frequently. They have that slider in the beginning, because they acknowledge that different monitors have different qualities, and require the game to be configured to work on each individual monitor.
Also, I'm not saying it should be bright as day. Its still quite hard to see at night, but its not pitch black. I dont think that that has anything to do with my understanding of the spirit of the game. There are still plenty of times that I need to use a torch or a flashlight, and I still avoid travelling at night thanks to poor visibility.

[AmagicalFishy]

thelionnessa posted:

Turning up your volume is equivalent to turning up your gamma (as is your mouse sensitivity settings to make you turn at super human speeds). Wording it in other ways doesn't make a new argument or refute anything I've previously said. You hear better, your depth of hearing is better, and yes, you hear people "further" away. The further they are, the more quiet the footsteps, unless your volume is turned up.

Refuting several points by claiming it's simply "different wording" does not a good refutation make. For all intents and purposes, you may as well not have replied. I explained pretty clearly why a player turning up their sound and mouse sensitivity is not cheating, while turning up gamma is. I even provided hypothetical examples wherein turning up sound/sensetivy could be considered cheating to further clarify the difference. Furthermore, I explicitly described an advantage-independent metric for cheating that was consistent with the rest of the post.

Yours is a bad (see: weak) reply that is equivalent to a more verbose "lol no"

[thelionnessa]

AmagicalFishy posted:

Refuting several points by claiming it's simply "different wording" does not a good refutation make. For all intents and purposes, you may as well not have replied.

Is this a battle of last words? Replying to say I may as well have not replied. And now me doing the same? :)

You can win on this one, I've said my opinion. Nothing changes the fact that super hearing is equivalent to super vision in that you turn up the volume to hear better, the same as you can turn up gamma to see better. I won't backpeddle that point and no it's not a weak argument no matter how many times you say it. Take care.

[Mobbaren]

"Autoaiming".


Clearly VAC-bannable.

[Pyroknight]

Frares posted:

Razor-users are cheaters ! configurating your mouse sensibility is cheating ! configurating your shortcut is cheating ! looking at your screen with glasses is cheating ! using Two screen is cheating ! playing with your both two hand is cheating ! playing using your brain is cheating ! playing looking at your screen is cheating (you can look at your screen through a miror only ! like medusa)? playing while your foot s touching the ground is cheating ! playing if you have more than 10 fingers is cheating (iincluding foot)!i can go far far far ! but to finish : EVERYBODY WHO S KILLING ME IS CHEATING BECAUSE I M A ANGRY !

Comon , what else ? :D

Yes, macros are sort of cheaty.
Everything else is not, because they are either personal preference, or are what the 'average' player has. Your 'average' player has a working monitor they are using, a connected keyboard that allows interaction with the game, a mouse that allows them to interact with the game, decent intarwebz connection that gets then a ping less than 200ms, and a computer good enough to run the game at a decent framerate. Your 'average' player has 10 fingers and 10 toes.
Notice 'night vision' isn't on that list
This is about 'fair' and 'unfair' advantages. Having a better computer is fair, because you are expected to run the game decently and if your running it at 30fps or higher, it doesn't make much of a difference. The 'turning up your sound' argument is 'fair', because there is a limit to how far you can hear. You can't hear something across the map. You may be able to distinguish footsteps more easily, but this is at the cost of your ears exploding if someone decides to shoot a shotgun right behind you

Edited:

thelionnessa posted:

Is this a battle of last words? Replying to say I may as well have not replied. And now me doing the same? :)

You can win on this one, I've said my opinion. Nothing changes the fact that super hearing is equivalent to super vision in that you turn up the volume to hear better, the same as you can turn up gamma to see better. I won't backpeddle that point and no it's not a weak argument no matter how many times you say it. Take care.

You don't really hear better. Unless exploding ears make you hear better. It's not like every sound, every footstep is played, only ones that are near you

[Hozzie]

I have a question to ppl who think that gamma correction is unfair...

Let's say we have two gamers: one of them plays on old pc which can barely take rust up to 20 fps, has a shitty connection with pings around 200-300 ms.

Other one plays on a modern gaming pc capable of handling rust with 60+ fps, has a big 120hz screen and is on low ping connection (pings below 100 ms).

Obviously in pvp situation second guy has an upper hand - do u find it unfair?

In my opinion pc gaming always was, is and will be unfair. Mainly because of different pc specs and setups.
Some ppl invest more money into setting up a gaming rig with decent controlers (highly responsive with macro/hotkey capabilities/more buttons etc.) and with high performence componenets for eg. 120hz screens.

Not only that but some ppl play in 5.1 or 7.1 sound environment. Not sure if u can grasp the advantage u get in shooter games when using 5.1/7.1 sound. With a good setting u can assess location of your target/enemy with your eyes closed (even during pitch black night - regarding gamma correction). What will u tell those ppl?? "PLX MAN USE YER DESKTAP SPIKARS BCS SURRUND SUND IZ UNFIR"??

[Pyroknight]

It's still not blatantly unfair. You can still beat him easily with 20 fps
Meanwhile, you can't beat someone who literally has night vision while you can't see anything

[Hozzie]

Pyroknight posted:

It's still not blatantly unfair. You can still beat him easily with 20 fps
Meanwhile, you can't beat someone who literally has night vision while you can't see anything

It's ok - our opinions differ and I respect your opinion.

But hey - man - I just read your other post and u say that everyone has controler that allows them to interact with the game and that it's fair.

I'm sorry but I will take this into battlefield franchise for a moment mainly bcs it's rly easy to give example in that game.

U know some ppl (including me) use gaming controlers allowing them on-the-fly sensitivity change. So for eg. I can switch my mouse sensitivity while I'm runnin on foot and then when I enter a vechicle and rotating turret get's uber slow I can switch it with single click to high sensivity where rotating turret 360 degrees is same as if I was rotating my "head" on foot. Then when I'm gettin out of vechicle I switch my sensivity down to normal bcs else I would spin the fuck out...what do u think about that?

I mean it's still "same" controler - it's just one guy has mouse capable to do that other guy doesn't.

[Trans_LFE]

My thoughts. Pathetic. Then again my opinion has no real merit, so bright that ish up son..

[AmagicalFishy]

thelionnessa posted:

Is this a battle of last words? Replying to say I may as well have not replied. And now me doing the same? :)

You can win on this one, I've said my opinion. Nothing changes the fact that super hearing is equivalent to super vision in that you turn up the volume to hear better, the same as you can turn up gamma to see better. I won't backpeddle that point and no it's not a weak argument no matter how many times you say it. Take care.

No, this was supposed to be a discussion; my telling you that you may as well have not replied was letting you know that you didn't actually address any of the points in hopes of you doing so (thus, my purpose in reiterating)—but that did not seem to work so well, either, and resulted only in you... well... repeating points I had already commented on.

This is not about "winning." I'm not sure where you get off declaring a winner. I think you have a strange understanding of what a discussion is; if your goal is to win, then there isn't a lot more to be said. We should not have engaged in an exchange in the first place.

This, unfortunately, ended up being a much worse conversation than I had hoped for.

To those still discussing the issue of whether or not gamma should be considered cheating:

I think a reasonable metric for whether or not something should be considered cheating is this: If a person is using something outside of the game to circumvent an in-game restriction, it should be considered cheating. Thus, using gamma to circumvent the restriction of visibility at night is cheating.

On the other hand, by this same metric, increasing mouse sensitivity, sound volume, FPS, etc. would not be cheating—unless there was a purposeful, in-game restriction regarding these increases. (i.e. - Say walking through a swamp slows down a player's turning radius. If said player increased his mouse sensitivity whenever he/she walked through a swamp, this would be cheating, as it is an action meant to circumvent an in-game restriction).

I understand being able to see at night is nice and convenient, but I think those who make use of this should not defend it as not-cheating just because they enjoy doing it. I think, furthermore, trying to instead quantify "unfair advantage" and "fair advantage" makes the subject much more difficult to deal with. We should deal only with what restrictions the game imposes on a player, and whether or not a player using outside means to bypass said restrictions is cheating.

[RBMK1000]

Hozzie posted:

Obviously in pvp situation second guy has an upper hand - do u find it unfair?

Of course it's fair, and I'll tell you why:
There's detailed information on required and recommended system specs available on every game, so you know what you'll need to run the game smoothly before you buy it. If you don't meet these requirements and still decide to play the game, well, that was your choice then, obviously.

It's like an amateur boxer competing in a professional box fight and then pulls out a baseball bat, arguing that since he's at such a disadvantage against the professional boxer, he should be allowed to use it. He knew the rules in advance and knew what he's going himself into.

[RallyCar]

The problem with this whole thread is that every monitor/configuration are not equal. You can have two identical computers with different monitors set to their defaults and everything could look substantially different. So unless everybody gets real expensive AV equipment to measure their screens colors and brightness (ohh yeah the room make a difference also) we have no idea what is the "correct" brightness.

I don't even know how you could set your gamma so high you could see during the night like daytime (mine does not have that ability) and then when it actually turns day the view must be terrible. I mean talk about eye strain, do people just keep setting their monitor back and forth that seems pretty annoying?

[hippowombat]

Call me a purist, but changing your gamma so you can see at night w/o a flashlight/torch seems kind of against the whole premise of a PVP survival game that includes night cycles. If the devs intended for people to use gamma cheats so they could see better at night, why would they put in nights in the first place?

Edited:

Pyroknight posted:

Yeah, someone said to add a particle effect or something that would get more visible with increased gamma settings so that your screen would be a giant mess if you made the gamma too high.

I posted this in the suggestions forum :')

Edited:

People keep saying they can't see anything for 5-10 minutes during night cycles, so they have to adjust gamma. Are you forgetting about the torch/flashlight? Yes they make you more visible from a distance, but with that being a risk you have to consider, doesn't that add to the intensity/challenge of nighttime gameplay? If yes, then how is adjusting your gamma not a way to circumvent that challenge mechanic, or, in blunt english, a cheat?

[Guammer]

Pyroknight posted:

To act unfairly in order to gain an advantage

Don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that changing settings so that you can see everything at night while people who don't know about this can't is unfair, and it's definitely an advantage. Like I said, stuff like you having good fps isn't 'unfair', because having the game run at a playable frame rate is normal. Being able to see at night as if you have night vision, is probably not intended

Also how does higher mouse sensitivity even help isn't it like a personal preference sort of thing

You posted a great definition of cheating. Can't argue with that. However, let's look at the word unfair.

un·fair [uhn-fair]
adjective
1.
not fair; not conforming to approved standards, as of justice, honesty, or ethics: an unfair law; an unfair wage policy.
2.
disproportionate; undue; beyond what is proper or fitting: an unfair share.

We can all agree that introducing software to the Rust experience to gain an unfair, or unapproved, advantage is certainly cheating. Without seeking out "unapproved" software (think VAC/facepunch), a person cannot have the advantage of running fast or aiming flawlessly for example. However, since we're all playing on PC's with graphical controllers and display options, by default we all have this ability and we don't all have the same default visual experience based on our different hardware.

The real misfortune lies in the fact that you can be absolutely certain that many players WILL use the naturally afforded options to their advantage, yet others won't. I prefer not to be a victim as one of the latter. I would also still very much prefer to enjoy the added challenges of a "vanilla" experience. However, being that I know for a fact that others can definitely see much better than me if I don't adjust my monitor or display, I'm not going to throw hours of my game experience away by spending it in the corner of my base in the dark or getting killed and looted by someone who has chosen to exercise the same options I have. Truth be told, without gamma, some monitors and GPUs without any correction are going to provide better vision at night than others. Thats the bottom line believe it or not.

An unfair advantage isn't the same as cheating. I have two legs in life, some people have one. I'm not cheating because I can get across the street faster. And it certainly isn't fair to them that they can't unless they did something to deserve it. I'm also not cheating if I put my nikes on and sprint across the street instead of trying to do it in my business shoes. Life just isn't fair and some of us know how to make it easier without doing anything wrong.

[AmagicalFishy]

The above post is a good example of why "unfair advantage" and "fair advantage" should be left out of the metric for determining what is and is not cheating. "Fair" and "unfair" are too... blurry to be useful in a definition, I think.

[Pyroknight]

Guammer posted:

You posted a great definition of cheating. Can't argue with that. However, let's look at the word unfair.


We can all agree that introducing software to the Rust experience to gain an unfair, or unapproved, advantage is certainly cheating. Without seeking out "unapproved" software (think VAC/facepunch), a person cannot have the advantage of running fast or aiming flawlessly for example. However, since we're all playing on PC's with graphical controllers and display options, by default we all have this ability and we don't all have the same default visual experience based on our different hardware.

The real misfortune lies in the fact that you can be absolutely certain that many players WILL use the naturally afforded options to their advantage, yet others won't. I prefer not to be a victim as one of the latter. I would also still very much prefer to enjoy the added challenges of a "vanilla" experience. However, being that I know for a fact that others can definitely see much better than me if I don't adjust my monitor or display, I'm not going to throw hours of my game experience away by spending it in the corner of my base in the dark or getting killed and looted by someone who has chosen to exercise the same options I have. Truth be told, without gamma, some monitors and GPUs without any correction are going to provide better vision at night than others. Thats the bottom line believe it or not.

An unfair advantage isn't the same as cheating. I have two legs in life, some people have one. I'm not cheating because I can get across the street faster. And it certainly isn't fair to them that they can't unless they did something to deserve it. I'm also not cheating if I put my nikes on and sprint across the street instead of trying to do it in my business shoes. Life just isn't fair and some of us know how to make it easier without doing anything wrong.

Unfair: not conforming to an approved standard.
Pretty sure night being dark is the standard.

[Guammer]

Pyroknight posted:

Unfair: not conforming to an approved standard.
Pretty sure night being dark is the standard.

A few years ago I couldn't drive well at night. Then I got glasses.

[Hozzie]

Pyroknight posted:

Unfair: not conforming to an approved standard.
Pretty sure night being dark is the standard.

Now the question is what level of darkness was night intended to be by the developers. U ever been in the woods during night? I've been...numerous times and I can tell u that humans can see during night even without flashlights/torches/whatever source of light. Stars and moon give enough light + our eyes get used to dark environment. In Rust night for me is pitch black. I see 0...as if my monitor died.

Edited:

Guammer posted:

A few years ago I couldn't drive well at night. Then I got glasses.

U obviously hacking.