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Post #1
I played rust without changing my gamma for a little while, and I found it to be pretty much impossible to play at night. I've noticed some purists(if you will) on the forum saying that rust should have pitch black night like it used to. I personally disagree, as it takes a full cycle of the day out of gameplay, and would rather see maybe nocturnal animals you can hunt or something of that nature rather than have a point in the day thats virtually unplayable outdoors without a bright "kill me please I'm over here" torch. Some people love pitch black night, and I politely disagree.
Since playing at night on my monitor was just not happening at all, I adjusted the gamma on my monitor to play. However, I didnt raise it to the point where night is as bright as day, because that definitely does give a ridiculous unfair advantage, and I've always felt like cheating in a game takes away pretty much all the satisfaction of whatever you had to cheat to do. I still have trouble understanding why people use things like aimbots, I just dont see the fun in killing someone if some code did all the work for you. When it comes to my gamma, I change it JUST ENOUGH that I can see a little better. No night vision, just a little better than zero visibility.
As rust continues its development, I'm sure we'll see one of those sliders where you adjust it enough to just barely see a logo, but until something like this (which is essential to a game where you play at night) is implemented, I'll be doing my own adjustments in my system settings. I dont deny the potential to really cheat and gain unfair advantage via this method, but until something is put in by facepunch, I wouldnt consider it a cheat or exploit, just a necessary workaround until further development happens.
TLDR:As long as you dont raise your gamma to such a high level that you cant even tell the sun went down, for some it is a necessary step.
Your thoughts?
View Poll Results: Do you consider raising gamma to be cheating?
- Voters
- 123. You may not vote on this poll
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Yes, at any level.
50 40.65% -
No, as long as the feature is not abused
25 20.33% -
No, at any level
48 39.02%
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Is getting a better internet connection cheating? Is getting a better graphics card cheating? Is overclocking your processor to make your computer more responsive than it is by default cheating? Is buying any hardware to get a better fps cheating? Is getting a bigger screen so you can see more area at once cheating? Is setting your resolution higher (also monitor- graphic card) cheating? Is using a controller cheating? Is changing your mouse speed cheating (so you can turn faster)? Any hardware you use that the other guy doesn't use, gives you the same "hardware" advantage. Because you can afford a better card, connection, monitor, and modem, it's okay. However using gamma is bad.
I don't think so.
It's a hardware issue and anyone that can stand the bright gamma look can and will do it. I've never died by anyone at night who was holding a torch. In fact, the bolt action gets more work at night than any other time, and you can absolutely know the guy sniping you had his gamma up. If you use a torch at night, you're dead. If you light a fire in your base at night, you will be raided within the next few days because you've now told the server "look how far across the map you can see my base totally lit up and even see me inside it because my walls haven't rezzed but my fire and me can be seen perfectly..... also, yes this base is active!" So unless we are expected to hide in the corner of our bases at night until the sun comes back up, I don't see why using hardware advantages matter. Everyone can do it.
Also, I play in a daylight only server.
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How is changing settings on hardware that is is 100% independent of the game cheating?
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That's a really weak argument.
I have a really good pc and internet connection.
but if i play against someone with the same stats than i will loose at night because they will be able to see.
It's so obvious that it's cheating. A light version of hacking.
It's ruining the night time.
Is rust a survivalgame or just another battlefield or cs?
Edited:
Because it gives u an unfair advantage.
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And if you play against someone at night (with or without gamma up) with a computer and connection that isn't as responsive as yours and you win, did you have an unfair advantage? Your computer and fps responds much better. Did you cheat? Is overclocking cheating? Is changing the mouse speed cheating? These are both functions independent of the game yet gives and advantage over someone who doesn't tweak their settings.
My argument isn't weak.
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Your argument is weak.
If your computer sucks, than so be it.
But you shouldn't be able to change the game like that. It takes away the purpose of night and darkness.
How can u say that changing the speed of your mouse gives you the same advantage?
It all depends on your way of playing.
making someone able to see in the dark while others run blind is giving yourself an unfair advantage.
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This gets filed in the who cares category of life no matter what opinion one has on the matter. I prefer to play games straight up as intended and in a perfect world would love to see all others do the same. But there is zero fix for the issue so why even bother arguing about it being "cheating." Some people think VOIP is cheating, but once again there is no way to fix the issue so why argue about it in the first place?
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So does more RAM, a better GPU, a better CPU, bigger monitors, VOIP...the list goes on.
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Thats a weak rebuttal. Just because you dropped a lot of money for your advantage doesnt make it any less of an advantage. If you're playing on a dial-up modem vs a fiber optic connection, there is a significant advantage on the latter. One could argue that since you have the ability to change your gamma, and people who have lesser systems cant just change that, that you're cheating more than them. Just to be clear, I'm not making that argument, just throwing that idea out there.
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Bullshit.
It takes only a certain amount to play without lagg. It also depends on the server. I can play any game on max settings. Yet i still lagg sometimes.
It does not always come down to the specs in the pc.
what it comes down to is fair play.
Play the game the way it is supposed to be.
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Yea but he said "so be it" to those advantages.
Anyway, in a not-so-perfect world (some would say perfect) we'd all have the same monitors, same computers, same fps, same speed, same connections, and all be forced to play with the same mouse responsiveness, same volume, monitor settings, and processors underclocked to make sure everything is exactly even.
No thank you.
This question is identicle to the following:
"If someone turns up their sound or uses surround sound headsets is that cheating? How high should the volume be before it would be louder than the developers intended and you'd hear someone sneaking up from way too far away?" Can you imagine people saying turning your volume up is cheating. lol.
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Agreed, theres no point in arguing about it. I simply want to see other peoples opinions on the topic. It wont effect how I play, and I wont fight anyone to agree with my opinion, just feeling out the crowd :)
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You seem to think you need a super computer to play rust.
you only need a half assed one to play the game without lagg.
just because i can play the game without lagg, does that mean i'm cheating? I'm just playing the game the way it's supposed to be played.
Could hackers make the same argument? "I'm so bad at the game so i need hacks."
No the can't.
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Hackers can't, but those turning up their gamma can.
Anyway, super computer or not, you playing the game without lag while someone playing the game with lag gives you an advantage. That doesn't make you a hacker because your hardware or your hardware settings are better.
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No, they cant. You're right. But if I can play rust just fine on my desktop without needing to change my gamma, but cant see worth a damn when I play on my laptop, should I just call that how the game is "supposed be played" and not play it on my laptop anymore? And for those who dont have a monitor like my desktop one, and are stuck playing on the quality of my laptop monitor, should they remain with a disadvantage because they dont have the higher quality screen, because thats how the game is "supposed to be played"?
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IMHO
Hardware would not be considered cheating in the least bit.
If it was, then all games would have to be set at a minimum settings
and you would not be able to use your hardware to its fullest extent.
Why would I (if I had a great computer) have to be penalized for spending more money on a computer
and you didn't.
No, if it comes down to software enhancements (from outside source). Burn the barstard.
That is really no fun in my book. You didn't win, the software did. You didn't use
any skill at all. Which equals = 'Loser'
I die often in the game and I get frustrated lots. But it is me doing it.
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No they can't. Being able to see in darkness while others can't is clearly not okey.
and i do lagg. We all do. Rust is far from perfect. But i can play without lagg most of the time.
fighting blind against someone that can see. I can't understand how anyone can think that is fair.
this whole thread is beyond me. It's such an obvious answer.
Edited:
Finally someone who understand.
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welp, i never change my gamma. I find people who do it weak. Also they care waaaay too much about "winning" in a video game. I'd rather die and lose my stuff, than adjust gamma. So thats what will happen. I play the game the way the devs intended(usually on vanilla servers).
i play the game for the same reason i play all games. To have fun. Seems some peoples idea of fun is finding any advantage they can to grief/kill/harass other people. This is not just rust, this is the internet these days in general.
You CAN have fun playing a game WITHOUT ruining other peoples.
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gamma? well..
grass on the other hand should be kind of forced on, only maybe not as dense.
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I don't care about winning, I've never even killed anyone. I do care about seeing at night and turning up the gamma helps.
If I angle my screen it is so much brighter. Is tilting my screen so the gamma naturally is way higher legit then? That isn't even touching the settings. Or is tilting the screen also looked down on?
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"im a girl who wants to play with me", "is X and X looked down on?" u get ur own morale perhaps?
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The poll says elsewise.
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huh
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Just my ten pence worth, but I think if the hardware in question is directly affecting the game play to a point where it is objectively noticeable, and changes a core element of the game, then you can consider it cheating or as some of you put it, 'light hacking'. Take for example FPS, if you increase it, you're not affecting the game so much that the core elements are changed, therefore you can't really tell objectively and it's not doing any harm to anyone. This would be the equivalent of turning your gamma up just slightly so you're not bumping into things a foot away from your nose.
On the other hand, there are 'hardware options' that allow you to really gain a noticeable advantage in game, such as using ambient occlusion in CoD4 (allows you to see through smoke nades) or turning up your gamma to the point you need sunglasses to see your screen. It's clear from an objective point of view that you're doing something weird and it is actually removing a core element of the game (night time).
Essentially though, you can never stop a player manipulating their hardware in ways like this. If I were an admin watching someone scope multiple players in the middle of the night, would I ban him? Definitely yes. But if he's changed his settings and he's not abusing those settings, no one will be able to tell, no one cares and it doesn't make a difference.
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OMG another one of these... its gamma get over it.
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People who say turning up the gamma is cheating are so dumb, sorry. thelionessa said everything what have to be said. I totally agree him.
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I have never changed my gamma in rust but by default on my monitor nights are never that dark, it's only fair people should be able to up their gamma to compete with those that don't need to.
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I think it depends on what the game "should" be played like. I'm pretty sure the game is supposed to run without significant lag, because they assume your computer will run it. I don't think that you "should" be allowed to modify settings so you can see at NIGHT
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Never have but more being lazy trying to figure out how to change it.
I know I must look silly stumbling through the night as others look at me and then put me out of my misery with a pix axe to the head.
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I feel that in order for Rust to be played to the most fair standard. Nobody gets to use a monitor, just a keyboard and mouse. That way no one can complain about lag or gamma and relies purely and the person's ability to visualize a 3d environment with only sound. Or maybe we should get rid of speakers too, sound gives people too much help sometimes. Then again being able to have a mouse with its own sensitivity modifier, or even changing mouse sensitivity at all should be removed. Then again being able to move in general makes things to hard for others. So we all agree on just playing with a tower right?
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I can't post without apologizing to everyone for keeping this thread's pulse pumping...I just can't help myself. As I've stated before, to each their own...but some of the of arguments "for" are just so damn stupid. You can't dial out lag...if you got it, you got it. You can't dial in a new hardware (please go ahead and make your argument that you theoretically can by just "buying" new components...not the same, but feel free to display further idiocy). You can dial in and out your Gamma on a whim. Any monitor manufactured within the last decade can, independent of anything else you want to try and compare it to. It's just a choice, which gives you an advantage or disadvantage depending on which side of the fence you choose to live on...and I'm cool with it either way.
I choose to not dial it in, in favor of immersion. The night cycle is crafting time for me...and usually gives me a rl excuse to go grab a smoke. Another advantage for me in not dialing it in, is that Gamma tweakers effectively are the new zombies. Roaming the countryside only after dark, prowling around the perimeter of my dimly lit shanty...giving me a reason to think twice before wandering out alone. I could give two shits if anybody nets a higher resource return by being able to farm round the clock. I also get a chuckle out of hearing shots ring out in the night in the not so distant valley, signaling yet another day-walker falling prey to the mutant Gamma zombies.
Ok, I think we all can move on now. Everybody's gonna play how they want to play, in spite of the great (or not so great) debate that continues to rage on in these forums.
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Not fair at all.TheRagingJ posted:
Rust should just be a cutscene.
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Sure, when VAC starts picking up higher gamma as a cheat, it'll be considered as such.
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The reason why thelionnessa's argument is a weak one is this:
The purpose of night in Rust is to drastically reduce a player's visibility and increase danger. When a person turns up their gamma, they defeat this purpose. That is why turning up the gamma should be considered cheating.
Any issues with lag, mouse-response, overclocked graphics, bad computers, etc. are not iinserted purposefully to thematically alter gameplay and are totally irrelevant to the point at hand.
(Example: Let's say the developers implement swamps, and when you walk through a swamp, the rate at which you look around is slowed down. Anyone who turns up their mouse speed when they're in a swamp to counteract this slow is cheating.)
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The most correct term would probably be exploiting. You are tweaking your settings to gain an advantage over others within the game that was not intended by the designers. If the game had been designed around everyone seeing at night then there wouldn't be flashlights and torches. This is the same as using a third party program to gain a reticule which can get you banned. And no having a great PC and Internet is not cheating, the game designers built the game with the expectation that you would run it at a playable frame rate and ping. At the moment there is nothing anyone can do about it but I would not be surprised if there are limits in the future.
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Have you ever been in the middle of nowhere with no light pollution in real life? its fucking dark, and even with moonlight an open field can have visibility of less than 5 feet.
For those of us who play as purists there are torches and for the time being flashlights (im guessing the current mods will be pulled when they remove modern weapons tho.)
Now what your post got right was that there should be nocturnal animals. Maybe some hyenas and ocelots for danger, and some less dangerous animals like hedgehogs for resources (i wouldnt mind building a dart gun that uses hedgehog quills for ammo and snake venom to add poison damage.)
edit: Oh and armadillos to craft a new type of armor!
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The purpose of creating sound (distance, field of depth) quiet until right behind you is to increase danger. Turning up your volume gives you super hearing, the same as turning up gamma gives you super vision. Both are exactly the same and that argument is not weak. You may not like it because it makes your entire post irrelevant, but I can't help that. If I can't see well enough to get what I need done, I make it easier to see. If I can't hear well enough, I make it easier to hear. If I can't move as quick as I want and my character doesn't respond properly, I fix my sensitivity.
You could also argue that mouse sensitivity gives you a huge advantage, I am just unsure if Rust (spinning or turning around) is effected by mouse sensitivity. Other games, yes. However, your swamp example is equally a weak argument? Why? Because like with hearing and seeing, humans turning at a faster rate than the game intended is equally "cheating" based off your example. You don't have to be in a swamp to understand a human can't turn 180 in a split second, yet with the mouse settings, it's possible.
Super movement, super hearing, super vision. Everyone turn down the volume, leave our mouses at the exact same sensitivity, and keep your gamma at levels everyone feels is absolutely fair. As dumb as that sounds, is as dumb as those arguing it's cheating sounds.
I'll agree that lag, fps, and overclocking is a different argument and a bit weak. However, the point was there are many advantages and disadvantage with hardware and setting differences. Whether the devs intended every computer on earth to run their game exactly the way they envisioned it, that isn't the case. Maybe those of us with computers not so great are reverse cheating by having computers that don't play the way devs intended. Sorry devs. My 12 fps I had my first 75 hours playing was me "bucking" the system.
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Turning up the volume of your speakers does not give a player super hearing. It does not allow a player to hear things said player would not otherwise hear if the volume were at a normal level (unless there was some other factor outside of Rust, say, bad hearing or construction outside). The sound works such that you can't hear the footsteps of a person too far away (regardless of how high you turn up the volume)—that is, you can't use your speaker's volume to defeat the purpose of an implemented game feature. Turning up the volume does not give you super hearing, it just makes what you could anyway hear regularly... well... very loud.
Now, on the other hand, say that a person's volume was proportional to how "far" away a person could hear. Someone who turned their volume all the way up just to hear the footsteps of someone else a mile away would, in fact, be cheating. That is, someone who used their volume as a means of overriding a game-restriction would be cheating.
My metric for whether or not a player is cheating is independent of the amount of advantage said player gets. I do not deny that a better computer gives one player an advantage over another; that doesn't have anything to do with my point, so you could argue it, but to no real avail. Comparing mouse sensitivity and night-vision is comparing apples and oranges (unless it is done in regards to the the "swamp" example I gave earlier).
My metric for whether or not a player is cheating is dependent only on whether or not a player is circumventing an in-game restriction. Being able to see at night is circumventing an in-game restriction (namely, not being able to see at night: thus, the implementation of flashlights and torches). It is cheating.
Edited:
Also, "reverse cheating" ... ?
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To act unfairly in order to gain an advantageTeh Dictionary posted:
Don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that changing settings so that you can see everything at night while people who don't know about this can't is unfair, and it's definitely an advantage. Like I said, stuff like you having good fps isn't 'unfair', because having the game run at a playable frame rate is normal. Being able to see at night as if you have night vision, is probably not intended
Also how does higher mouse sensitivity even help isn't it like a personal preference sort of thing
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You should try to change the gamma in your game and come back and tell me how much more you could see. Love it when people post BS because they have no clue what they are talking about.
Dumb x 2
Agree x 1
Optimistic x 1
Disagree x 1
Winner x 1
Late x 1
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