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Post #1
I hear a lot of "This is alpha talk these days"
Been gaming over 20 years and you know how many real alphas I have gotten into prior to a few years ago? 3...
In the last few years I have gotten into MANY alphas.. you know why? Minecraft. They changed the model.... Minecraft was not an alpha. They called it one - but it was a product that was pretty playable, and able to be sold as it was. I call that a production ready product that lacked a lot of content.
Alphas of yesterday were not ready to be sold. They were barely playable - The ones I helped out with were horribly bugged and had game breaking issues.
To release something in that state and ask for money was unheard of because the project would fail miserably. You had to get it to closed beta - even then it was messy, but somewhat playable. Once it was in a playable state - you could go open beta. This is where the game is currently stable - ready for a launch and needs polish / community feedback and play time.
Sounds to me like the term "Open Beta" was just converted to "Alpha".
Why would you do something like that? Well, because - when the game sucks or is broken, you can fall back on the "hey this is simply alpha guys" I feel this is a cop-out and people slang that crap around these forums like its going out of style. The framework is set for Rust, the systems are in place and the updates we have been seeing are not major changes to the game. They are small additions - much like additions you would see in Betas.
There are serious issues with this game that need to get dealt with if it is going to last and simply saying "Oh its just an alpha - move along" is not an answer.
Not to mention - we all bought into it way early and have been playing all this time. Honestly for a lot of people I play with, this game is losing its luster. Same thing is Minecraft - we played so long in "alpha" that when the game was "techincally" complete is was old news - we felt like we were at the end of the lifecycle for the game, and it was just officially launching?
There are some real concerns I have for this game like:
Why is it servers only stay active a week or so? People love the beginning, we all gather and build up and get tech. People start raiding and bases get emptied out and people start leaving servers... crying that they lost all their work.
Bases are all 100% raidable so your loot will be taken at some point. The only defense at this point is a good building knowledge and making a base with so many doors on a single story it's just not worth raiding. The time and materials it takes to achieve this gimps your own raiding experience... By the time you complete a base like this the server is usually winding down and is going to be wiped soon anyway.
Players are slowly starting to see that bases or borderline pointless, and that storing any kind of loot is a no no.
Currently the best strat is:
Raid day 1... Pickaxe all wooden doors, KOS naked for materials. Build 1x1 or 2x1 store only what you need to for the time being. Keep teching up - move to a new location build another 1x1 / 2x1 wash rinse repeat.
Stay mobile, use small hidden bang shacks and KOS anything that moves and is in range. The Key is to make anything you can with the mats you have so you are not "turtling up" having a base full of gunpowder, guns, ammo and armor that is doing you no good - and it will be taken at some point anyway.
Bad side effects of this play is that if you do this solo or in a group - people will leave and leave early. So it screws the server....
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the updates we have been seeing are not major changes to the game. They are small additions - much like additions you would see in Betas.
yea cause changing zombies into dinosaurs, removing weapons, etc etc which are very very likely to happen is NOT big changes? lmaowat? this game might look entierly different in a month or so, please don't say they are just doing small additions.
There are some real concerns I have for this game like:
Why is it servers only stay active a week or so? People love the beginning, we all gather and build up and get tech. People start raiding and bases get emptied out and people start leaving servers... crying that they lost all their work.
what is this sentence even trying to say? if the concern is that people leave after losing all their stuff, then well yea, find a solution cause people get mad when they lose, duh.
also coming back in a server where your oponent have 40 c4 and all your shit and you have nothing again is impossible, better go play on a newly wiped one
Bases are all 100% raidable so your loot will be taken at some point. The only defense at this point is a good building knowledge and making a base with so many doors on a single story it's just not worth raiding. The time and materials it takes to achieve this gimps your own raiding experience... By the time you complete a base like this the server is usually winding down and is going to be wiped soon anyway.
how is good building knowledge = good defense. a bad thing? XD shouldn't it be rewarding to use a bit of intelligence lol. also you can build a small smart base somewhere off. or fake bases. much better than giant ones. ( while gathering wood for your house you're probably gathering sulfur and metal aswell for your c4, it's not gimping your raiding experience, it's just something to do while you farm for c4. ) the only ACTUAL problem atm, is that bases are too easy to defend if there weren't exploits to raid.
take away the raiding exploits and make the c4 cost to raid less. and you have a better game.
Players are slowly starting to see that bases or borderline pointless, and that storing any kind of loot is a no no.
what? you obviously only play solo and die after building a 1x1 and then say FUCK ALL BUILDING IS POINTLESS PEOPLE HAVE 2 C4'S!
Stay mobile, use small hidden bang shacks and KOS anything that moves and is in range. The Key is to make anything you can with the mats you have so you are not "turtling up" having a base full of gunpowder, guns, ammo and armor that is doing you no good - and it will be taken at some point anyway.
won't be taken if you build smart, it's only fair a team of 10 has it easier to gather c4 to get your stuff than you as 2 people have. the more time invested = the greater the reward. stop complaning about getting raided, dear god, l2build
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Did you actually play survival minecraft in alpha? LOL. The game had no content at first and most of it didn't work. Rust is more playable in its current state then Minecraft was in its alpha. By the way the idea of Minecraft being a "survival" game died very quickly after the game got popular and that idea is long dead now.
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This was a guys argument a few days ago when I complained that a previously working feature (airdrops) had been broken.
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Argument is valid
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They can say whatever they want to change, but untill it's performed it doesn't count.
They can say they'll change everything but who knows?
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Not really - you would expect even at "alpha", games being made would have a test bed being built alongside features. As your game grows you can't possibly hand test each feature and as such, creating one is almost required.
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Im saying the Idea of calling any game "alpha" these days is a marketing ploy made popular by minecraft.
This is not an alpha imo.. I could have used any example. Dayz or Landmark.. terraria... starbound..
They all are filled with people on their forums saying "STFU its ALPHA jesus!!!!" I feel like we are playing established beta's here is all - not alphas.
And no removing items and monsters from a game is a pretty basic and easy change to make programmatically. Balance wise - you might have larger consequences.. but not a big change.
Do you guys honestly feel like Rust will feel new on release after we have been playing "alpha" for many many months? Will it then go into beta? When they "officially" launch you think 1 miilion more people will buy?
Pretty much everyone that will buy rust has already done so - and we are playing it now as it is. They made their money and by the time this actually launches numbers will be low.
Lets face it - games like Minecraft are not around still because of the game itself. Its all about mods in there.... mods the creator himself says he totally disagrees with.
I mean maybe if Rust allows for crazy mods it will be around as long as something like minecraft but I am not seeing that happen.
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With each content patch more people will play the game and more people will find out about the game. Did the Minecraft population decrease during alpha, beta ect as more content was added? lol
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sadly i feel rust is a dead end game. it people will come, but in the end it's one of those games you just grow tired off and stop playing after a certain amount of hours, on average 200 hours or so i'd say. at that moment you experienced everything and there isn't really much to do. it's sad but it happens to most players. i'm just hoping patches and big changes will keep this game alive and the ones who left to come back and visit the game again going; holy shit this is new, this is exciting, lets explore it!
preferably if there was modding like in minecraft i think this game would really hit the big numbers and keep an active playerbase.
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I can pick your posts apart all day and fight it out with you Uikutoru but the fact of the matter is.. I know this game well enough and have built many bases big and small. I have been raided day 1, and a week into it. I've learned from builds, researched builds. build in hidden locations - all of it dude. I've done all this in large groups of 6 for the most part gaining mats at a fast rate than most on the server. In fact most of the time WE are the ones breaking servers by raiding.
Im sick of putting in work on servers and putting IN more effort than most people and my reward is an empty server because we empty them out.
Server hopping is not a solution IMO.
And yes it will be taken - intelligence has nothing to do with it lol. It's painfully easy to raid any base out there today. Most of them don't even protect them properly.
What I am saying is that the most protected bases are easily raided with enough mats. There is no brain power behind that.... you'd know what I am saying is correct if you yourself understood the game fully.
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and the most protected bases are easily defended with enough mats. err i can use your own argument against you :P
also, if you want a server that doesn't empty out, play on one with 60-100+ players on every day. they don't empty out. even if you oblidirate factions people will join for the share amount of people playing.
and if people don't defend them properly, they're stupid. so intelligence HAS to do with it.
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No it didn't because we were playing Tekkit and heavily modded servers that were not even considering close to vanilla - and later people moved into Feed the beast... mods like those are keeping Minecraft alive, not the vanilla version of the game.
Rust modded servers that shy away from the vanilla game will probably be the ones that last. Just like MC - rust by itself currently doesn't offer much to a seasoned rust player anymore.
Currently the mods out for rust - are in their infancy. Im sure that will come in time. It's more difficult to mod Rust when compared to what we had to do to mod MC.
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It's the word Alpha that changed its meaning actually. Nowadays an Alpha is a sort of request of subvention made by the dev to the players. The dev proposes his idea with a draft of a game and the player, by giving his money, will have the possibility to test, propose ideas and guide the development by saying what he likes or not. In other word the player become some kind of investor, he invests money to get a game that he would enjoy when released.
Now this system is not bad actually if and only if the development process is not unjustifiably slowed down and the objectives remain clear (aka good communication).
If not, the investors may become gradually angrier, they may feel robbed, betrayed by the dev.
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i agree with everything in this post. mc survives cause of modded servers. vanilla is just way too... little for someone who played tekkit or so.
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How? lol I've yet to see this. Seeing as how it is currently protected - how would you spend more mats to protect it? Best you could do is replace walls as they get popped IF you could kill the attackers. (rare) Cant replace doors for what 4-5 mins? You gunna barricade doorways? lol
Most raids happen when the owners are gone anyway. Defend that O.o
You show me a US central server with 100 people on and a ping less than 50 and I'll be in love bro. lol I havent seen one yet.
You honestly play in 100+ ping servers and call gunfights fun?
Agian - I said well protected, it is assumed that a well protected base is ya know... protected (defended)
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This. I haven't played for weeks, I just keep checking the website/forum to see if they've added anything. "Updateless Week" has turned into Updateless Month. But I am hopeful that realistically that means one has to be upon us soon.
To people who still play this game, what do you do exactly? After triple digit hours what are you doing to maintain interest?
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Of course you will grow tired of a game you put 200 hours into it. Same with Minecraft. People pour hours and hours into this game. I will gladly take a bug ridden "alpha" for 20 dollars that I can get 200 hours of gameplay out of before I become bored and tired of it. People are so whiny it amazes me.
What people don't really think about is those same people will go and buy a single player only A title on console or PC for $60 that at best is 12 hours of game play. Enjoy the game where it is and hopefully it will be 1000 hours of gameplay. But be thankful a 20 dollar game has provided the amount of entertainment that it has.
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First off, i totaly agree with this dude here.
Second: Calling this game a open beta is just plain stupid. Open beta is when your game is almost done. The only think available here is the Unity engine with some minor changes to thats no way near beta.
That you have played alpha's that were alot more broken is because they usualy build there own engine or atleast a heavy modified one. At that point you will run into game breaking bugs, like broken airdrop huh, and thats just a small one.
So get your facts straight son.
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Exactly this. With 100 hours on Rust I have had as much fun as you can have while sitting at a computer (with both hands above the desk) for the price of 20c per hour. Can't complain about that.
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build a base with more doors than their c4? + fake rooms and small stashes hidden in the rooms which have no boxes so they're more unlikely to go into that room? it takes you much less time to farm for doors and walls than it does for them to farm for the c4. people that raid just usually spend more time and therefore have more c4, hence people feel it's too easy to raid when it's actually the raiders spending insane amounts of hours on the game in comparishment to you.
Edited:
I'm not complaning. just saying that this game if done correctly could amount even hundreds and hundreds of more hours if it allowed more things to be explored. i'm not complaning that it's a bad game, it's a really good game, just concerned that it might die out.
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I played the alpha "Dead State" and it was literally a demo, and says demo. Rust doesn't even have a female avatar and because it's alpha, I can just stop wanting it. Hopefully this game is still in true alpha because a beta would at least have a female. Not to mention, Garry is still voting on what to add (dinosaurs, military), zombies were just removed, and you can tell the clothing is just in game as placeholders. I'd say your original post has some valid points, but Rust does actually seem to be a true alpha.
Just saying..
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You can play with words as much as you want, the game is still in constant evolution. Sure it might be "Open Beta" but the fact is that the game is still being updated constantly. People complaning about the lack of updates after 2 weeks or so are pretty much clueless about the development process behind game mechanics.
Important features have yet to come out. Of course I can't side with the developpers on the time they predict updates will take, but rest assured, they will release updates and there will be major changes over the course of the development cycle.
TL;DR Its not alpha, its early access.
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It's easier to slap beta on something then actually do but fixing before a game releases
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Guys, just a headsup, you forgot to make the basement.
BUT WE'RE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING THE HOUSE!
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Since no one here really knows what the plan for long-term development is...
Is it really anyone's place to decide what stage of development the game is in?
We do not know what will happen or what will change, other than small glimpses that we get here and there.
So how do you know that this should be called a beta? or an alpha? or gamma? or whatever you want to call it.
The word "alpha" isn't what's important. The game isn't finished. Stop trying to pull the curtain over something that's barely gotten started.
Arguing semantics like "nope, it's alpha" or "no way, this is totally beta" is entirely useless because the devs could just as well call it "shithead stage".
It doesn't change the fact that it's just not finished yet and has barely gotten started.
I can only imagine that the devs weren't expecting such a huge surge of players all at once. Can you imagine the extreme overload of new ideas the devs have probably gotten from the community? They probably have just piles and piles of awesome ideas that they want to implement but they can only do so much at once.
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I just needed to quote this:
Now this system is not bad actually if and only if the development process is not unjustifiably slowed down and the objectives remain clear (aka good communication).
If not, the investors may become gradually angrier, they may feel robbed, betrayed by the dev.
Let me repeat: Good communication.
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I agree that communication could be better, but frankly I'd rather them just work on the game and be able to have some semblance of a life outside of work than sending out tweets every day and keeping the Trello constantly up-to-date.
Yes, I realize that neither of these things sound terribly difficult but when it's just another thing to do on top of everything else I'd imagine it can get easy to just focus on the task at hand.
Quite frankly, if I were Garry and I was seeing all of these threads on the forum, I'd say "fuck you" and just not give any communication at all since it obviously only stirs the pot more.
But I like to think that Garry is classier than myself.
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probably the most intelligent post in this forum
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...but isn't that the issue people are complaining IS happening?
Compared to beta/release/post stages, alpha is when the MOST progress should be happening. Huge chunks of the game, additional mechanics etc. When exactly is it okay to expect progress or talk about issues? Beta? No, that's for small refinements, tweaks, fixes. Release?
People keep saying it's alpha, it's not done, as if that explains a lack of progress or "don't mention any concerns you have". Wake up people, alpha is the stage where most progress/change should be occurring. That's not to say huge progress isn't right around the corner, but come to grips with what it is valid to expect in alpha phase.
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You didn't even read my post when you quoted it, did you? Didn't you see the part where I said that the words "alpha" or "beta" don't even matter?
If you're going to quote me then at least attempt to understand what I'm saying, please.
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Huge progress is being made, but it is largely framework, rather than definitive tangible features
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You should take your own advice, since you didn't respond to anything I said.
Yes I read yours, and I agree "we could call this phase anything" etc. The point isn't the label you give it, it's the fact that of ALL the stages of game life, whatever you decide to call them, now is when the most progress should be seen. And that could happen later, who knows, maybe it's all top secret and they really are dropping a huge content update 5 minutes from now, but it doesn't appear to be happening. This would be the time for significant progress, and it's okay for people to wonder why it's not happening.
Saying "alpha" or "it's not done" is actually a good argument for exactly why we SHOULD be seeing lots of progress, not why we shouldn't talk about it.
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Who are you to dictate the priorities and work pace of the studio?
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It's equally as good an argument for why we wouldn't be seeing updates for a few weeks, because they're still working on it. Could communication be updated to at least one announcement every week? Probably. But hey, Garry's rocking 11 hour plane rides and 2 hour drives all over the place and everyone else is (in all likelihood) in the seventh circle of coding hell.
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People also often forget that Facepunch is a company.
They likely have other projects and games that they are working on as well, all behind the scenes.
Rust isn't all of what FP is and they shouldn't be spending all of their time on it.
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You are 100% correct. It's a trend that will kill itself off over time. It's not alpha. Alphas generally aren't playable at all (Go play the old doom alphas).
Steam didn't help with Greenlight.
What the hell are you even talking about? FP should be spending all their time on it, since it's unfinished and one of the top sellers on steam.
Yes, yes. You post this on every thread. Getting rather boring. Who are you to dictate our opinions?
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Except for the fact that the term Alpha with redards to software development means the very early stage of development reserved for a select few to see the product at its worst to start to help shape it into something resembling a usable product. At that point it is referred to as a Beta and more people are introduced to the product. Once this stage is complete it typically goes into Open Beta where everyone gets their hands on it product. For the most part the product is complete for a release 1 and is stable.
Calling a product that is completely stable and functional without major bugs an Alpha is a trend I see happening in the gaming market lately to basically push an otherwise finished game out with an alpha tag carrying with it the clause that we can make changes to this at any time because its so new and is only an alpha - if something were to happen "it's ok guys - you are covered.. still alpha"
What you are saying is why label it all? If the label doesn't matter - it wouldn't need labels right?
The problem is if Rust launched as it was day 1 as a finished product people would have been screaming bloody murder. Things like "I PAID MY HARD EARNED MONEY FOR THIS!!!! I EXPECT SERVICE!" blah blah blah
That is simply done away with by saying "Alpha" You immediately arm all the forum nazi's with the "It's just Alpha" comment and the devs can simply relax and say hey "It's not like this is a full release... it's an alpha guys.."
This isn't all about Rust either - because I enjoy the game. What I don't enjoy is the loose use of the word Alpha and inserting it anywhere someone decides to speak negatively about any game.
Rust is not the only game doing this.. I stated that games like Minecraft paved the way for it and you see it more and more today in games.
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I doubt they have much more content to add to the game. They havent added/updated anything useful at all.
What did they do? Add durability, add lockpicks, new sky, new "zombie" mutant animals(just painted red). All very bland. Hurry up, you're very slow.
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The customer. Not that complaining about the slow pace (FP is the one who claimed they were going to move to weekly updates, by the way) and the odd priorities (yes, what the game really needed was a new furnace model) is even remotely the same thing as 'dictating'.
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