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Post #41“We are in very early development. Some things work, some things don't. We haven't totally decided where the game is headed - so things will change. Things will change a lot. We might even make changes that you think are wrong. But we have a plan. It's in our interest to make the game awesome - so please trust us.”
What is Early Access?
Get immediate access to games that are being developed with the community's involvement. These are games that evolve as you play them, as you give feedback, and as the developers update and add content.
We like to think of games and game development as services that grow and evolve with the involvement of customers and the community. There have been a number of prominent titles that have embraced this model of development recently and found a lot of value in the process. We like to support and encourage developers who want to ship early, involve customers, and build lasting relationships that help everyone make better games.
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Dumb person is dumb.. I used asterisks because I didn't wanna get banned... is it the f word? dunno.
And nothing that you said actually had anything to do with anything that I posted.. so thanks for...wasting space?
Edited:
Uhmm PVE zones? no.. not at all. thats dumb.
But if your telling me the only to options are hot and cold. (Hot being Call of Duty and cold being a PVE game)
Then I'm going to call you stupid, and say you know nothing about game development.
Edited:
Annnnnddddd here is MY feedback. :)
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Saying he's "missing the mark" on an incomplete game is silly. Offering your opinion is fine and saying what you'd like to see in the game is fine -- but telling them how they should structure the game based upon your personal experience is not a realistic reflection of the current community perception of the game.
I often see people complaining about the game based around a story or circumstance of them losing everything they've built or getting killed repeatedly -- either by more skilled players, hackers or larger groups of people. With the exception of hackers, I think the other two are fine.. that's part of the game. This is a negative emotional response to a sense of loss, and it is why this game is nothing like Call of Duty. You don't lose everything you've earned in a round-based FPS. It's not the same. I think most people are not even aware that this is the actual root of many of these type of complaints.
A true survival game should leave you susceptible to unfair or seemingly unfair circumstances. Often the true reality is you just need to adapt your strategy or playing style to counteract these forces.
If you're burnt out on the game, give the game a break until the next feature update. Or if you're having a bad time on a server, find one you like with people you like playing with.
As the game develops and more features are added, it will become easier to combat and evolve your strategy to adapt these forces. And they will offer new opportunities to branch your playing style. The game will find it's balance, just give it time.
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Can't compare really as I didn't play FPS games, however played games based on pvp and the difference is clear.
Those other games were fun cuz you were actually fighting; including using your brain :D
Here sometimes you get headshot by a rifle, not even knowing where this came from and w/o having a battle at all.
And this is sth, I clearly don't like.
However I still play the pvp servers, 1. for the adrenaline, 2. because the game is in ALPHA :D
So plenty of stuff to change still..
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No one cares if you curse. It's when you're flaming or trolling that gets you in trouble.
If you're too afraid to use a certain word, just use a different word. Using asterisks just makes you look weak.
You're talking about how you're such a big gamer that's been in the scene for over 25 years and you haven't reached the conclusion that alphas might be missing features, or might not be at the completely playable stage yet? Sounds like you're lying.
You're a person who's been in the gaming scene for over 25 years and you buy games without doing research about their quality before buying them? Sounds like you're not very smart.
You're a person who's been in the gaming scene for over 25 years and you think that "being in the gaming scene for 25 years" earns you the qualifications to spout out baseless claims that a game should be feature-filled and full of content right from the start and implying that the developers are lazy or have no focus? Oh, and that anyone that doesn't like your opinions should go away? Sounds like you've got problems.
Why bother opening a discussion if you can't handle criticism? If you can't handle anyone saying, "You're full of yourself, your opinion is baseless, and you're being ridiculous," then maybe you shouldn't post at all.
Discussion is fine. Discussion is constructive. Saying, "This game is Call of Duty Garry get your shit together," is not.
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The thing is, you think you acknowledge the fact that it's in alpha. But you don't, because you make complaints like if the game is complete. Garry is well aware that the survival aspect of the game is not yet even close to finished.
Now I will explain what it means that the game is in ALPHA. Think about any other game that didn't have early access when it was being developed, let's take Dead Island as an example (random). The game was released to the public when the developers thought the game was finished, not before and not after. They didn't give the public the priveledge (sorry for the bad english, don't know how to spell that word) to play the game while it was being made. Now think before the release of Dead Island, were there any complaints that the survival aspect of the game wasn't finished or lacking? No.
Rust is in ALPHA, they're giving you the priveledge (sorry again for the misspelling) to play the game while it's being developed, unlike most other games. That doesn't mean that the game is finished and it's been released. That means that they're letting you play the game while they're making it.
And making what you think are legitimate complaints to this game right now is like eating cookie dough while someone's baking the cookies, and then complain about the fact that there's no crisp to the cookie (Note: There's no cookie, only dough).
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I'd also just like to point out that according to OP's profile -- he's only 25 years old. So if he's been gaming for 25+ years, his mother has some really awkward/uncomfortable explaining to do.
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I understand that saying we're at "CoD" stage right now is very cliche, and overused. But it's a cliche that is used to make a very accurate and legitimate point (not the equivalent of "racism" as u said).
A lot of what you said actually legitimizes the use of the CoD comparison. Is CoD a survival game? No. Why not? You are trying to survive and kill people with guns. Because the only threat to your survival is another player. Is Rust a survival game? I would say not yet. Hunger, sickness, NPC's, weather, are all not a threat (yet). The only real threat to a player at the moment is another player with a gun who shoots them on sight with an M4, for example. Hmm...sound familiar?
The CoD comparison, is cliche, and not very descriptive, but it stands for very real point, which is that in it's current alpha state, all we have right now is "a twitch shooter where the only threat, and only thing to do is shoot other players." I'm sure down the road this will obviously change, but I'm tired of idiots trying to write off players who have hit that moment of revelation when you realize that's where it is right now.
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Played the game before all you FAGGETS got a hold of it. Oh those were the days, in the first wave of the BETA keys where you couldn't even get in random drop crates
HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW HUH. Thats riGHT m8, i strolled the grass of Rustopia before your brain even ProCESSDED THE IDEA OF GETTING THE GAM/
~~~ Official List of Agreement ~~~
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I think this currently plays out like "an actual game" more so than most completed projects, and personally I like the fact it isn't so focused on survival. I know that'll change, but this isn't DayZ, and I never want it to be so convoluted with stupid survival aspects that it essentially becomes another DayZ (fundamentally broken). This game already has more to offer than anything else I've seen released in quite a while.
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I'm straight, and it seems like I haven't ever raped, or in fact had sex with a woman ever.
July 2008
7,883 Posts
Privilege
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A L P H A
wow..
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i think you're probably wrong here. it's reasonable to assume the devs do intend for you to have fun on rust, alpha or not. yes, OPs point comes down to the lack of content, and this is answered with the alpha shtick. but look at the way it's being sold on steam - i would say people are being mislead with their purchase. i'm not sure how often you play elix, but the state of the game at the minute (hackers, lag, admin abuse, realizing there's nothing to do except pvp) should be highlighted more clearly to punters. telling people "some things are broken" will not prepare them for the shitstorm that rust has became
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First I'll say that I partially agree in that I look forward to seeing the game slowly morph into a grittier survival game. It may or may not do that but all the dev comments appear to be focused in that direction and I welcome it.
But that said, maybe you should change up your game in the mean time? I see a lot of people complain about various things with their Rust experience and a lot sound similar to your rant. I wish the Rust early game was more involved and grindier because I like that part of it more than the current "end game" of being geared out too. But just changing your personal goals and play styles can get you some more mileage.
For example, my play experience is vastly different than yours. I'm 60+ hours in and have never fired first at anyone. I've only been in, maybe, half a dozen firefights. I've never raided anyone, and only been raided 3 times. I lay low and generally play diplomatically in world chat. There's a fun metagame that can be achieved through world chat alone, building a reputation for one thing or another. Player density also changes the game up.
So try a different style for a while, and a different density server. The game will eventually offer tons more I'm sure. But in the mean time, you can't keep playing the exact same way, with the exact same strategy, with the same player density, and expect different things to happen. Change it up for yourself!
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So pretty much what everyone is saying is
CAN"T DISCUSS /alpha
you are retarded. And go ahead get butthurt. I don't care. I still have my opinion.
I know you all want a FPS game, and if that what Garry wants... then so be it. BUT if he really wants a "new type of survival game" one that is NOT based on twitch mechanics and head shots... then he is going in the wrong direction. end of story.
Edited:
I appreciate your feedback.
First off, it wasn't supposed to be a rant.. but most people took it as a rant because they are fanbois.. If you look at the original post it was calm, and pretty friendly (I thought)
As far as changing up my game, I've been on quit a few different servers, first one I played on the average pop. was 10ppl and then I got onto a larger one with 50+ppl online. And the play was much different.
First I'll address the low pop servers.. yes you can get away with never firing a shot, but honestly.. thats because you never interact with anyone, which can be really boring. How is that survival? you just farm resources all day.
2nd would be a high pop server.. and anyone that has been on a high pop server for more then 10 minutes knows, its KOS no matter what. AND with M4's and full autos.. its a rather quick KOS that doesn't provide much counter gameplay...if any.
How is it fun if I am walking(or sneaking) around and get KOS'd with a M4 from behind? there is no counterplay at all..
Anyways long story short, I have played in different settings. And I've found you either:
don't interact with other players or get KOS'd.
sure every now and again you find 1 person that wants to trade with you (and do a legit trade) or something of that nature... but those are few and far between.
(User was banned for this post ("Flaming. Don't be so rude." - postal))
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I'm just going to copy/paste a couple things I said in another thread about pretty much the same topics.
There is a rather diverse group working for Facepunch, it's not just a room full of C# coders and infrastructure analysts.
There are artists, modeling and animation and all that jazz. Do you really want the guy who's designing the new furnace and wicker storage crates to be changing advanced networking settings? Nope, he should be doodling so that we get that unique non-placeholder experience that we all want, too.
(I don't know that person's history... for all I know, he could be the net pro, that's not my point.)
You don't think that someone is working on this? How could you be so naive?
When we say "alpha" what we really mean is "Dude, the game is basically like an infant. Things will take time to grow and change. And there's gunna be shit. Literally and metaphorically."
(Maybe I'm speaking too broadly, but) We all want the game to progress faster because we like it. But it's just not going to happen as fast as we want no matter what.
Rubberbanding was already an issue and has been off and on for a long time. They've patched it before and they'll patch it again. This is because they're still building the very framework that everything else happens on. Small changes ripple through everything else.
Just be patient, wait it out, play another game. If you think the game is good now just imagine how awesome it will be when all of the trials and tribulations have been worked through.
It's a reasonable thing to ask "If so many people are complaining about this then why isn't it an issue for the devs?"
The problem with it is whenever anyone asks that question they don't read the answers, they're generally just upset and need a place to troll... And there are people on this forum who know how to troll lol. (myself not included, I think I try too hard lol)
The devs probably could keep everyone more informed but... there's a lot of things that can go wrong.
They could tell us about an idea they had, everyone loves it and gets super pumped but it falls through. Maybe there just wasn't any realistic way to make it work, or maybe it would have just taken too long. Imagine the shit-storm after that. This way, they keep some of their intellectual assets safe and don't let anyone down by mistake in the process. Facepunch is a business, after all.
Besides, I'd rather then spend time working on rubberbanding and doodling than to keep me informed of every little thing all the time.
And quite honestly they have absolutely no obligation to do so, they give us some stuff on the public Trellos, and we're just going to have to be happy with that.
You don't see Maxis handing out gameplay videos of the Sims 4 while it's in alpha stage, do you? There's plenty of reasons that companies don't share every little detail.
^^(I originally had EA here... but they're just the douchebag publishers. Maxis is legit lol.)
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I would agree and disagree.
I think the Devs did intend for people to have fun, and I have had fun.. the OP was SUPPOSED to be a friendly "suggestion" but because of FPS fanboys on here its become a flame war.
As far as how its described on steam? it does clearly state that its in alpha.. but like with many alpha's that I've been a part of before, (take minecraft for instance) they had a set game, and they were building on it
With Rust, I honestly feel like they sold us a different game entirely... at this point, anywhere from 50-80% of the game is "subject to change" and "just a place holder"
eitherway. my OP was about the military guns in the game, and whether the artwork is just a place holder or not, has NOTHING to do with it. Garry has stated there is a chance those weapons will stay in the game. And I think its a bad idea... it quickly takes the game from a "new survival" standpoint and turns it into a FPS.
Edited:
So we might as well shut down the forums now.. right? we can't discuss anything because its still in alpha.. its still an infant..
want to discuss clouds? NOPE subject to change.
want to discuss guns? NOPE subject to change
want to discuss Garry? NOPE subject to change..
see where I'm going with this? If you have a problem with this thread.. to bad? I wanted to discuss how military weapons are a bad idea..and you want to.. tell me we can't talk about anything thats currently in the game.
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If we have to eat every 5 minutes in the final game i'm holding you personally responsible.
But i think the ease at which guns are made and used is the real problem. If everyone just has hatchets or any close range weapon you won't see many people going on killing sprees. And if they do it won't be hard to stop them. Guns, specifically, are the problem. If even one asshat on a server gets one they can fuck over the entire server. Making them rarer will just mean less people able to do anything about it. All firearms should be completely removed, or replaced with inaccurate ones which have a chance to blow up in your face and kill you. People who just want to hop around playing guns have lots of alternatives out there.
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given all the parts were in front of them, I believe 1000 mechanics could build that engine in a few minutes....
But the rest of your post was solid. ^_^
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Yea I remember the rounds of CoD where I had to gather resources and kill npc's to find or craft gear. I remember building my base during rounds of CoD. Just the other day in Rust I got a kill streak and called in an airstrike and UAV to help me find the remaining players on the tiny map filled with corridors.
It is a lazy and stupid point made by people who are too lazy to think outside of a cliched response, much like people who resort to racism to explain a complex problem. The only connection to CoD would be the fact that you can shoot at other players. The map is not similar, the structure of the game is no where close to similar, how people progress is far different, etc etc etc.
The OP makes some relevant points but for myself it is rendered completely irrelevant by the fact that he went with a moronic and lazy comparison to CoD. So while I might have agreed with specific points and disagreed on others I am instead left with the urge to mock the OP as a lazy and unimaginative incapable of making a point without resorting to some tired cliche. I guess that makes his argument the CoD of arguments since both are tired and worn out in the gaming world.
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Agreed.
I've been on my most recent server for 2 days now, I have put probably 4-5hrs on the server.
I have 2 M4's, 3 Mp5, 5 or 6 p250's, a bolt action.. probably 180+rounds of 556, 100+rounds of 9mm
etc. etc..
am I a good player? no not at all.. its just EVERYONE has that. which like i've said countless times now, turns the game into a twitch fps. No one is scared to engage because there is no real risk of losing your stuff.. because you can get it back so fast.
And no one is conserving ammo, because its so easy to get. This is why I think up to this point, Garry has missed the mark on survival. I feel like I'm "surviving" Vietnam, and I have half the weapons of the U.S. military.
So much for a survival island... :/
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No, however you have gone beyond the point of stupid.
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... I never said to shut down the forum or to not discuss things. Stop trying to twist around my words.
Maybe try reading what I said without instantly assuming that I'm trying to troll you. Because that's not my intention. I put some thought into what I posted hoping that it might shed some light on how development works, from my point of view.
Don't "tl;dr" my whole post and then assume you know what I'm talking about. It makes you just as bad as the real trolls.
Edited:
This is the part of my post that's most important concerning your opinion:
Just be patient, wait it out, play another game. If you think the game is good now just imagine how awesome it will be when all of the trials and tribulations have been worked through.
Edited:
And Dewm, quit going around to all my posts and rating them dumb just because you're upset that I put together some of my OWN opinions that happen to contradict yours.
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So what were you saying?
Because I read the whole post.. and thats what I got out of it..
You think that all of my points are irelivent and/or not worth discussing because the game is still in alpha..
And my point was, if talking about the military weapons is not worth discussing because its still in alpha.. then EVERY aspect of the game is not worth discussing because its still in alpha.
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I never said this. I don't know why you have it out for me so much and why you insist on assuming that just because I disagree that instantly means that I'm here just to piss you off.
My point is not that it shouldn't be discussed, my point is that bitching and moaning about it isn't going to help. Things are going to take time no matter what.
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Dewm, I'm not saying your points are invalid - personally I don't like the idea of sub-machine guns being thrown into the game as a normal occurrence. The problem I have with you is your attitude - you're saying that the game is absolutely falling apart and turning into Call of Duty and Garry needs to jump on working on it right now absolutely this second because other wise the game will just fall into the fiery pits of hell and lose customers.
It's completely okay to make a post like the following:
You could also say:
That starts up a civil discussion in which people can contribute with opinions and ideas.
I'm going to point out everywhere you went wrong in your first post:
1.) Insulting people with A.D.D. is stupid.
2.) Yeah, this entire block of text of you suggesting what the reader is going to say isn't needed and is condescending.
What do you want? What qualifies as an "actual game", or a "starter to a game"? Why does Garry need to provide you an alpha that fits your standards? Why can't they just work on what they want to while taking notes from what people are suggesting along the way?
Who cares, honestly? You're answering your own question by acknowledging that it's an alpha, and the developers are allowed to make the twists and turns as they feel fit. It's their game, not yours. You can give feedback - you can start up constructive conversations about the the game's current or future state - but you're treating this game as if it's in a dire situation with no turning back. Combined with the fact that you're telling people go away for not liking your opinions, perhaps you need to calm down.
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This is why I got defensive, using phrases such as "bitching and moaning" has a very aggressive tone. If you read my original post, I was not bitching and moaning at all..
Like I said before, I thought it was clear, polite and friendly.
And even though I said IN THE OP that I knew it was in alpha.. I still got dog piled on by fanboys.. so If I acted like I "had it out for you" it was probably because I did. I don't enjoy people dogpiling my thread with worthless comments like "its still in alpha"
And I really doubt you read the OP, because you've made statements like "go play another game until this one becomes enjoyable for you"
If you'd read the OP you would have known I am enjoying the game. I just think military weapons are the wrong way for Garry to go.
(I should really just get that statement on copy/pasta, because apparently people can't understand what I'm saying)
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I think this is the point everyone is saying - that right now, it isn't a survival game, it's going to be a survival game. And the stuff that's there is, as has been said, placeholders to test systems. The feel and mechanics of the game are still under development.
And I agree with you, guns are too easy to get and to simply crafted. But I also believe that's an aspect of the game that will change over time once things like the UI, inventory, and other base game play components are added.
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No where in my OP did I say the game was falling apart.. or even eluded to that.
in fact the TITLE of the thread is "I think Garry missed the mark"... how is that falling apart? but thanks for putting words in my mouth to make your argument.
lol, this is an online forum.. not the fking U.N. I'll say what I want.. people with their opinions will say what they want.. no matter how I format my thread I'll get the same response. I bet I could have worded it like the most delicate angel in the world, and put honey crisp and flowers on it..
and I still would have gotten the same deluge of people saying "its still in alpha"
1. I had/have A.D.D. I can insult them..
2. Well it looks like I'm nostradamus, because I called it. I said people would skip most of the OP and just copy/pasta their answer of "its in alpha" and thats exactly what I got.
No one needs to explain anything to me. I started my thread, I stated what I think is wrong with the current build of the game, I expressed a little annoyance that everything in the game is a "place holder" And then I expressed some annoyance that I can't play some portions of it very well, because of rubber banding, despite my PC specs.
What explaining needs to be done?
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Like wauterboi said, starting off by insulting people with a crack at ADD isn't a good start and certainly isn't what I'd call polite or friendly.
And like I said in my own post, acknowledging that the game is in alpha is not a defense against that argument.
I have read the OP, and I've read the thread a couple times. I get your opinion about modern weapons and that's your own opinion and that's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean that other people can't disagree with you.
The game is subject to drastic change all the time. Who are you to say that modern weapons are a bad decision? Who am I to say that they are? (I'm not saying they are, but that's not really my point)
Facepunch is making this game, and they get the final call, no matter what.
My entire point is this: The game will change. What's the point in complaining about it now? In a month maybe modern weapons will be gone and the devs will have a change of heart and add in some laser weapons instead. Who knows?
It doesn't matter for now, because we aren't really looking at a game, we're looking at a whiteboard that's slowly being filled in with more and more detail.
Not to mention that right now I think the most important thing is to develop the engine that the game is running on... not worrying about which guns to add/remove.
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And hopefully this is the case, its all just a placeholder. And if more people spoke up on the forums, I'm sure Garry would take note.. and steer the direction of the game away from "military weapons, twitch style of gameplay and fps combat"
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Then why the actual fuck are you posting your opinions on the forum?!
If you literally refuse to read and comprehend anything that anyone else says and sweep it all under the "it's alpha" rug then why are you here?
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And this is where the problem is.
I posted thread as a discussion, and you read it as a complaint. they are not the same thing. you can be Critical of something you enjoy. Maybe you should remember that next time before you jump on the "its alpha" bandwagon.
Edited:
Once again.. I think you need to look up the definition of "discussion"
Its not complaining.
its not explaining.
its something...more...
dis·cus·sion
disˈkəSHən/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
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In case you don't recognize that quote, that's from your OP, asking yourself why you are complaining.
Also, you can quote definitions all you want but you were the one who said "No one needs to explain anything to me." Which sounds pretty much like "I do not want to exchange ideas. I just want to post my opinion and I'll do anything to negate everyone else who doesn't agree."
Maybe you should read that definition of "discussion" again.
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I'm starting to think you are a Rust: Black Ops 2 player. If you don't want a survival game, you could play DayZ: Modern Warfare or Nether: Ghosts, or any of the hundred other 1-dimensional games that boil down to just another twitch shooter. I for one am looking forward to this being the first real survival game someday.
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Lol, last time I am going to respond to you.. clearly you have a reading disorder. And I'm sad for you.
BUT people trying to shout me down (you included) with "its alpha" is not exchanging ideas.
If you go back and look at the thread, and actually look at the people who responded to the OP with a REAL statement, I treated them fairly, was kind and friendly. Anyways.. have a nice life.
Edited:
Agreed!
I honestly think that DayZ is a perfect middle ground for someone who wants a rust like survival game, along with the twitch combat of a fps (like COD)
I have played the DayZ stand alone for around a month or so.. and its tons of fun..
But its not what Rust is, so hopefully Garry will start to steer the game in the other direction.
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Way to go, you can't argue anymore so you reduce yourself to personal attacks against me. Bravo.
And IT IS ALPHA. Why do you think we keep saying it over and over?
We say it because you clearly do not understand what it means.
I left plenty of real statements, quit trying to reduce what I'm saying to nothing just because you can't come up with anything better.
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What the hell? So what if you have A.D.D., why do you choose to represent and insult others with A.D.D.? Having a disorder isn't a blank check to be as offensive as you want with no repercussions.
With that said, I don't think you're receptive to opinions or criticism, so I don't think there's much to be done here.
Yeah, you're an asshole.
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How is this misleading?
Gee, good thing the game's not close to finished, right? Read the image I linked above and realize that that is what you were promised, and it is what the devs have, so far, been delivering.
The whole point of wauterboi pointing those quotes out to you is that you claimed to have just made an innocent and civil post and that us "fanboys" turned it into a flame war. Now you're saying, fuck being polite, this isn't the UN, I'll say what I want, I could've been nice and it wouldn't have been any different.
You were perfectly civil and innocent and it devolved into a flame war, or you didn't give a fuck because you knew it'd devolve into a flame war. Which of these two things did you do? Because it sure looks like you were lying about that first one in a farcical attempt to reframe what everyone can read.
"You can't ban me for calling people niggers on this forum because I'm black."
See how far that line of logic gets you around here.
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Lol, can't gel up a real thought in your head on the OP... so you gotta come and pick apart every last word I've said, and take them out of context.
Get a life dudes. lol, all 3 of you sound like what you are, butthurt little kids, who really want the FPS model to stay in Rust. and reject any sort of criticism.
And clearly calling me an "asshole" makes you such a better person.. haha seriously.
Dumb x 1
Artistic x 1
Agree x 2
Winner x 2
Funny x 1
Informative x 2
Disagree x 1
