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Post #1
So without looking at my steam profile I believe I've logged 120-200hrs on this game, and I really really enjoy it.. well aspects of it.
I feel like when it really comes down to it, this game is not a survival game, at best its a cheap version of COD. reasons?
I start the game like most, with a rock.. collect some food get a small hut setup, raid some rad towns.. end of a good day I have a m4 or at least a mp5 and a small base.. life is pretty good, but here come the problems.. Once you get setup like this, the rest of the game turns into COD.
Raiding someone elses base? M4 firefight, getting raided? M4 firefight, trying to loot a RAD town? M4 firefight.. (i'm sure you can see where this is going)
Now yes, I know what all of you are going to say.. and the A.D.D. people who haven't read this far down will show their ignorance in their next comment. "BUT DEWM! this is just alpha!, and M4's are just a place holder" true enough, but from everything I've read.. they will 90% chance stay in the game in one fashion or another, and I believe they need to be removed from the game 100% and sooner then later.
Can skip this part if you want, but its just a snapshot of part of my game.
{Me and 4 friends started on a new server, we built up by metal hill right on the coast, down in the rocks. Seemed like a pretty safe place, so one day we were out gathering resources in the large field and someone sniped my buddy, "no prob..we'll just go get him" and we did, we killed him and looted his body, well he came back with around 4 guys, and we got in a M4 firefight in the rocks..they got some lucky headshots and we ended up losing. They found our base (which was near by) and blew down the doors with C4.. with us inside and Mp5's we defended, but once again..we lost.. and they looted the whole base}
Now do I think they didn't play fair? no.. do I think they were hacking? no. do I think I suck at FPS? no.
So why are you complaining Dewm?
Well... I wanted to play a fun survival game, which is 90% of this game.. but if I wanted to play Call of Duty, I would play Call of Duty.
Do I want all weapons out of the game? no of course not, I think some guns like the pipe shotty, the bow etc.. can be tons of fun. I just think that with combat being 70-80% of the game right now, they should focus on new weapons and get rid of these "placeholders"
Miscellaneous:
Garry, please.. we need an actual game. or at least a starter to a game. We can't discuss anything on here because:
Map is placeholder
rad animals are placeholders
guns are placeholders
UI is placeholder
what part of the game is actually going to stay?
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Last but not least, rubberbanding.. wtf.
PC specs:
i7 960 3.2Ghz
Radeon 8750 1gb
24gb ram
I can run crysis 2 on full with 60fps
I can play league of legends at a steady 50ping, and 60fps
I get on a rust server with 60-80ping.. boom rubber banding like a mofo.
I know a thread was already made about this, but I thought I'd throw it out there.. its really annoying, and probably one of the main reasons I hate the FPS combat in this game. There is no way I could play COD or Halo with this rubberbanding. :/
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"we need an actual game."
The game's in alpha. Come back in a year if you want an actual game. Rust right now is like a prototype that's gotten too big for its britches, but it isn't a "real game" yet because it's missing tons of content and balance.
Also, your computer's specs have nothing to do with rubberbanding, that's server performance and Internet lag. Nobody ever rubberbanded for having not enough system RAM (you have plenty of RAM).
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first off, if you had read the post you know that I acknowledge the fact its in alpha. But you can't slow walk us along with the excuse of "everything is a placeholder"
2nd. I know ram has nothing to do with rubber banding, but more often then not people will answer ANY complaint about lag with "your comp is probably shit, get something better!" So by posting my specs up front I negate those stupid arguments.
AND if it is from "server performance" then why is it happening on EVERY server? I've been on probably 30+ now, and about 7 of them I've been a part of for 4+ days.. and every single one of then rubber bands at one point or another.
(I have a 16mbps connection, and on average server I have 60-100ping) which is NOT high enough to create the 40ft rubber banding I get.)
Edited:
Couple ideas I have for making combat a little more interesting, and less Call of Duty..
remove M4's, MP5's, P250's and 9mm
Change bolt action so its truly a single shot, then have to reload.
add real bullet time to bolt action so you have to lead your target
add other weapons that don't have sights (spear/slingshot)
add defensive weapons that can be attached anywhere. (trip wires with grenades/shotties on the other end)
add knifes, and make mele more of standard combat. (if I was stuck naked on a island, i'm sure I'd make a spear/club long before I'd make a pipe shotty)
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The firefights & 'call of dutying' if you will, is not because of the weapons (sure its easier with an automatic rifle compared to a bow but the incitament to ravage people is there nonetheless), people will still do these things with pipe-shotguns, crossbows, bows, spears, swords axes, rocks or whatever even if they remove the military weaponry.
What they need to do is to make it harder to craft & create other things such as food, shelter, clothing etc so that it will be more expensive and give no real time in 'raiding' & marauding randomly.
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One thing to keep in mind with the development of a game is during alphas, features take longer to develop with good reason. Often times the game will lack the framework for many new features, and in addition to the framework, the actual feature will need time to be developed. However, once the framework is already in place, you will see subsequent additions come faster.
A lot of the "modern" weapons such as the M4's were just generic unity engine assets. They are to be replaced, or (perhaps) only obtainable through drops.
Planned
Planned.
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Good points, And for reference I was a part of minecraft since its super early days, I've been a part of the DayZ alpha, I've been a part of 2 or 3 alphas for different MMO's (including final fantasy 14 ) and I've been a part of Planetary annihilations alpha.
So I figure I'd "know what to expect" and when I bought this game, I knew it was in alpha..
But none of the alpha's I've been a part of have passed off 70% of the game with "its just placeholders" I mean, on some stuff its aight.. but literally 70% of the current build is "a placeholder" its just...almost amusing.
Edited:
I realise this, and I would enjoy a little bit more "grungy" combat, what I don't enjoy are the 2headshot kills from 60ft away, or the full auto firefights from across a field...it just feel WAY more COD then "survival"
IMO
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The bow is the weapon that shoot the farthest actually.
Play solo, takes usually 20-30 hours to get an m4 on a stable 80-100 pop server that is fresh.
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Rust has placeholder content everywhere because, as a Unity game, it has access to all of the stock assets in the Unity store, and in an alpha, you just want systems to work. If the models are ugly, whatever, that's not the concern of the moment.
Minecraft was built from scratch by Notch and didn't have the luxury of stock assets to import for speed and efficiency during prototyping.
We're at the foundation-building stage, not the "polish and perfect content" stage. Items right now can only be added by two coders on the team. The devs are working on a way to make that work a lot better, and to overhaul a lot of the fundamental systems, like the GUI. Read.
This is why I said "it's alpha, calm your tits and be patient." You're getting too far ahead of the devs because your expectations are too high.
Rust isn't meant to be fun right now, it's meant to be tested so that it's got a solid foundation going forward. If you're playing Rust for fun, be aware that your desires and needs are secondary if not tertiary in the devs' priorities.
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I tried to pay a prostitute for a hug, but she turned me down because I'm a huge faggot.
July 2010
3,049 Posts
Haha you love Garry!
Gay!
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Solution?
Play on a server with built-in slower tech progression like the Omega server.
It's nice playing on a server where people don't have M4's after less than a day of work. Lots of fights with revolvers and pipe shotguns - it's quite enjoyable.
Link to server info:
http://toprustservers.com/server/1029
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Rust isn't passing 70% of the game content off as being placeholders, though. It's passing off possibly 5-10% of the game content as placeholders. Because that's about how much of the total game content we currently have.
You've clearly never been in a hard alphas, bordering on pre-alpha. You've been in pretty alphas, bordering on betas. If you had taken ten minutes to watch some video or browse the forums you'd have known what you were in for.
At this point, saying that "70-80% of the game is PvP / CoD / BBQ / ETC" is silly because 70-80% of the game doesn't exist. It's like driving a project car with an engine and four wheels on a frame with a plywood body for proof of styling concepts and saying they need to replace the plywood body with the finalized parts. You can't do it because the rest of the vehicle isn't built under it yet. If you build it out of sequence you're just making more work for yourself in the end by developing parts that won't fit with the others in the end.
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I still support the view that the problem with so many people having the same gun would be solved if we had more basic weapons to fill the transition between carrying a rock, to a pistol, to carrying a rifle. Which should eventually happen when they start adding weapons like swords, clubs, or crossbows, causing it to make sense for guns to be harder to craft and much more unobtainable, and relatively new players will still have it balanced enough so they'd have medium power weapons to defend themselves from the players with the best gear.
I also think ammunition for rifles should be much harder to craft, compared to ammunition for a pipe shotgun, or a pistol, for example considering how much of an advantage it gives you over players who don't have these weapons, and how often they get used pointlessly on freshspawns.
Item deterioration was a good thing to add, because it means expensive and stolen gear will be much higher maintenance to something easy to replace like a bow.
Also this "game's in alpha" response doesn't make feedback any less valid; keeping in mind we are testing their game for them.
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"Fill out content" is typically a beta goal, not an alpha goal. The devs are working on a new item system that they eventually intend on opening for public submissions, although they will be moderating and filtering the submissions and not just accepting everything that comes in. That's going to start the process of filling out the content, and it's one that will take time.
Your feedback is valid, but in some cases as much as a year ahead of itself.
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Thank you for a toxic reply, and jumping to assumptions that you clearly know nothing about. Its really informative.
I've already listed SOME of the alpha's I've been a part of, and if you knew anything about the early days of Minecraft alpha and/or Planetary annihilation then you would shut your pie hole, because child...you know not what you speak.
Edited:
Thank you for actually responding to the content of the thread, with more content. Better then I've gotten so far.
And I would agree 100% on the ammo situation. I don't ever even craft ammo, why? because you can hit up a rad town or two and end up with 100 rounds of 556. Its way to easy to get.
Edited:
Where did you get this alpha/beta values? did you just make it up?
MMO alpha = fixing bugs
MMO beta = fixing bugs
DayZ alpha = adding features
minecraft alpha =adding features
planetary annihilation alpha = smoothing gameplay/adding features.
Did you just pull this alpha/beta definition out of your ass?
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If you don't like 90% of the game, then why are you playing it? Fighting people is part of surviving.
Here is an idea... go play Minecraft!!! Or go play WoW. when you die you get your stuff back.
Now stop whining and find a new game.
(User was banned for this post ("Don't quote an entire post" - SteveUK))
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You acknowledge it's alpha and yet you don't even understand this why shit is there
You expect people to take you seriously?
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AGREE 100%
(User was banned for this post ("Don't quote an entire post just to add something as inane as "I agree"" - SteveUK))
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Actually, I think pretty much everyone aside from yourself would agree that my reply was not toxic, aggressive, or insulting, all of which your reply happens to needlessly be.
Humorously enough, you accuse me of jumping to conclusions, but also of not knowing what I'm talking about which is quite the assumption on your part, I must say. I've participated in beta / alpha testing games and emulators for the last fourteen years, some of which weren't even alpha to the point where they had fully functioning renderers and were barely capable of displaying wireframes at over 10fps. Compared to that Rust handles like a shiny new Ferrari.
If you were actually part of alphas as early as you claim then absolutely none of this would be new to you. Either that, or you complained about the placeholder content present in them when they were less than 10% completed as well. I honestly can't imagine why you would continue to participate in alpha / beta testing if this were the case however, as it would be terrible for your blood pressure.
Of course, I notice you don't actually dispute my analogy, so I am forced to assume from your lack of an actual response that you are unable to logically refute it.
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Acknowledging the fact that it's still in alpha does not make that any less of an argument. You bought the game with the wrong understanding of what to expect, as I'm sure a lot of people did.
We all want the game to have more features and become more unique with less placeholders but that's just the stage the game is at right now and any amount of whining on the forum isn't going to change it.
Patience is a virtue, so is shutting the fuck up and playing a different video game for a while.
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will you dunderheads stop quoting the entire OP just to say things and, worst of all, literally just to say "100% AGREE"?
did your mother drop you on the head?
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If the devs think it's low priority to add this particular content to the game, then so be it, but no one claimed it was what they're focusing on right now. We know we might be looking at a long-term goal here, but that doesn't make it pointless to discuss how we would like it to happen.
Fortunately the problems about guns being too easy to craft in the OP is fixable through server mods.
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What's up with the hostility? That's a completely valid view of the alpha stage of software/game development. He even said your views were valid, but just ahead of current development.
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I don't know why people say modern weapons = Call of Duty. If anything, the gunplay is more like Counter-Strike; I personally enjoy the gunplay. I wanted more modern weapons to be in the game, and was a little disappointed when I heard that they were only placeholders that wouldn't stay. However, I'm still excited about the future of the game; I feel that is has lots of potential. I've sunk about 350 hours into the game in it's Alpha state already, so even if I were to never play again, I got my money's worth out of it, which I haven't been able to say about a game since Minecraft.
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15 minutes max, every time we restart our vanilla server. 15 minutes with about 30 pop and someone has an m4. Every single damn time.
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I believe I missed the part where he said "Combat = CoD"
Hell, I don't even play this game but I think he's right about removing the M4 completely. Should have rusty pipes or something, give someone tetanus and have them either die or seek a friend to stick a needle in their butt.
I don't know, any rusty weapon would be a nice throwback to the games title and any other possible element of survival would drop the amount of combat in my opinion anyways.
I imagine I'll purchase the game once it actually get's finished. I hope there will be weather systems, please.
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Im sorry but i think one of the reasons this certain survival game has beat all others, BECAUSE it has weapons, i love them to be honest, if they're we no weapons, just rocks, id probably quit, with half the population swell. they are a part of the game and they fit in fine.
(EDIT) i like the idea of removing weapons, but JUST THE M4 AND MP5, shotgun and pistols are not too op, i really like the idea of knives, spears, tribal weapons etc though
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I have an idea, Gary should remove the Alpha tag and make up a word and when someone asks what it means, he can say, "It means the game is still being made."
I say we call it Rust - Boobie Stage....Seems like everyone whines and hungry for more...Gary will give you the teet when it is ready.
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I hate these threads and the comparison to CoD is crap.
CoD has defined rounds, is a quick twitch shooter, and has zero survival aspects. If you are too lazy to find a better comparison than the lazy ass insult that gamers seem to place on every game then your opinion is stupid.
Making CoD references is like resorting to racism to win a point, it is what stupid people do when they can not come up with a compelling point. Even if you wrote out a thought provoking intelligent discussion about the state of the game the fact that you made even a single CoD reference ruins the entire post. It would be like reading a well researched and compelling argument against the Obama Presidency only to have the entire thing ruined by the author calling him the n word at the end.
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I could compare it to just about any FPS
Its like halo
its like CS
its like COD
its like BF2
my point being... that your "survival" ALWAYS comes down to, who's better at first person shooters... (in this game)
Which makes it...like halo...like BF...etc. etc. etc..
Edited:
It was a real question. at least twice in this thread he's stated the fact that "alpha is NEVER about adding content"
and I was just wondering where he got these facts? him and a few others talk to me like I just got into gaming yesterday, talking down...well go **** off. I've been gaming for 25+ years now.. played thousands of games..
I KNOW what a standard definition for "alpha" is. I don't need some kid coming in here to spout crap about what the "REAL" definition of alpha/beta is.
Don't like what my opinion is on this thread? get out.
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Ok, in respect of some of the comments and to not make a text wall, I wont quote OP's first post.
But, I agree 100%.
This game , STILL IN ALPHA, has too much of the shooting, too little of the surviving. And I understand, bla bla, placeholder this, placeholder that, and I'll be happy when they remove Military Grade weapons, and I do hope that Garry doesn't listen to the people that want the Military to be added, it takes from the Survival/Caveman feel.
Someone here said that he/she got her/his money worth on this game, I did too. And all my friends feel this way. For a game on early alpha it has so much potential. But it NEEDS some better survival, more rustic guns, and mostly, it needs better hack protection.
And I'm ready for the dumb/disagree tags.
Lay them on me.
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Thank you for actually using some intelligence with the original post.I believe I missed the part where he said "Combat = CoD"
Hell, I don't even play this game but I think he's right about removing the M4 completely. Should have rusty pipes or something, give someone tetanus and have them either die or seek a friend to stick a needle in their butt.
I don't know, any rusty weapon would be a nice throwback to the games title and any other possible element of survival would drop the amount of combat in my opinion anyways.
I imagine I'll purchase the game once it actually get's finished. I hope there will be weather systems, please.
Most people read like this..
"blah blah blah...wait...he criticised MY GAME?!@!!!! ITS STILL IN ALPHA!!!!!!!!!!"
People can say whatever they want about alpha, Garry has stated that he believes that military weapons such as the M4 will STAY in the game, (even if its a rare spawn)
And the point of the OP was to say "thats a bad idea, if you really want this to be a survival game"
Edited:
This is pretty much what I'm saying..
I know its in alpha.
I know the military weapons are placeholders.
I DID get my $20.00 worth already..
BUT......
I think that keeping military weapons in, even if they only spawn 1 in 100.... is a bad idea. It completely turns the game from "survival" into a FPS.
The only difference with this FPS, is instead of grinding levels and unlocking new guns (see COD) I'm grinding metal and wood to unlock knew guns.
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I've played COD Black Ops 2, and COD Ghosts, Rust feels nothing like it. COD games piss me off so much I actually feel bad that I own them.
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early game progression is to fast imo, If it was up to me we would be building foundations one plank and nail at a time, it would take 30 minutes just to build a foundation if it was up to me.
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20 years professional software development project experience checking in. You are spouting off like an arrogant novice. This is clearly early alpha. I would suggest that you have played games which opened up to public alpha much later in development, as is usual.
The proper definitions for Alpha and Beta are that Alpha is expected to be buggy and you may lose data. Alpha usually ends with a feature freeze, meaning the content is complete. Beta is then about polishing that content and debugging. These are not always hard and fast rules, content is sometimes added in Beta.
Late alpha should be features and content. We aren't really up to that stage yet. We are in the early alpha stage of building the engine and supporting systems. The foundation is being built. Much of the content and features will share parts of this foundation, so the idea is to build systems that are flexible and support later content. For example, the AI in the game for each creature might be written in a script. That script is defined by an AI engine which was written earlier. If the AI engine was not written with enough forethought for everything required, it might need to be changed. If a whole bunch of AI scripts exist, these might also need to be changed because the engine they run on has changed. So it is in the best interest of time to get the engine as close to right before running ahead with the AI scripting. Building the proper foundations is important.
I would suggest that some of these new style of online games (DayZ, Rust) present unique problems for testing and development. A great part of the game is about how human players interact. A more closed testing environment is not going to give enough feedback. This is why some of these games are being opened up for public alpha much earlier. In order to balance the game and properly test everything, they need as many humans trying to screw the systems up as possible. They need to see what the things that 1 in 1000 people will figure out in order to gain an unfair advantage. They also need to balance the human interactions.
Fact is, they were trying to get some alpha testers while discouraging people from joining if they wanted a finished game. This was explicitly stated when you bought the game. It has not stopped a whole bunch of kids from whining that the game isn't finished yet and they have lots of money, why don't hey just hire more programmers?
Answer this question and you might understand why: If 1 mechanic will take 10 hours to build a car engine, do you think 1000 mechanics can do it in 36 seconds?
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M4 is a placeholder or not doesn't really matter, there will be a gun with rapid fire either way im very confident so I don't get what you are complaining about. I guess you just mean you want more content and better ways to survive like traps,spears, and I do think things like the handcannon and bow could be a little more viable. (yes I know bow already seems op, but it doesn't even have head shots) And I agree on red animals, they reallyyyy should focus on them and the visual place holders like pickaxe.
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Don't like what our opinion of your terrible opinions are? Get out.
Edited:
I believe it's justified for an alpha to be missing features or having small bouts of unplayability so long as it's advertised as such. And it is. And it's your fault for not doing the research.
And you might as well say "fuck", it's not like we don't know what the word is. It's not like it's less offensive to use asterisks.
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While I agree on your assessment on the current state of the game, I do believe this will be fixed eventually. This is a risk we take as "early access" buyers.
I really hope that the millitary grade weapons go away eventually. My hope is that as soon as the new UI and item editor is done, we'll see an influx of new items that is more down to earth.
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4 months ??? maybe only 3... the netcode has gotten worse??? the decay lag... the object lag...
All WORSE so if thats any indication of how this game is progressing,
I WILL SAY IT NOW, JUST LIKE ROCKET ..... GARRY HAS FOUND THE GOOOOOSE THAT LAID THAT GOLDEN EGG....
HAHAH FOOLS
o and to the guy with his face up Garrrry's Butt.... wipe your nose theres something brown on it
Answer this question and you might understand why: If 1 mechanic will take 10 hours to build a car engine, do you think 1000 mechanics can do it in 36 seconds?
They sure could if the engine was on 1000 cpu screens and they all where virtually putting the pieces together at once...
But fitting 1000 dudes by a engine.... meh lets be realistic
Maybe that money grubber rocket will toss out a better rust now that hes working on his new money grabber.... Let's be honest rust is 20 bucks, well worth its dollar value. Fact remains that in 4-5 years when the game comes out in retail noone will remember it
Also its not the M4 its the 30-50% of rust players using hax with a m4.....
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I could tell before even reading this was going to be a thread whining about M4's and PVP
I bet you want the game to be purely bows and arrows with terrible guns that are near impossible to make, and you probably want PVE zones so you don't get killed aswell right.
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