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Post #1I think money made from alphas should be held by steam and only portions given to the developers to pay wages. Profit can wait until late beta, or full release. Bold statement, most of you will probably "dumb" it but here is why.
Where the fuck are the updates? The only update I have seen has added a bed, and shiny rocks that change size when you hit them! Really? FacePunch? Really? How about spend your time on more important aspects, like oh I dunno, the game killing features that have and will see players leave the game saying "fuck this, I am coming back when they sort this shit".
What features are killing the game? I shall list some.
Admins being able to spawn things. Do you see this on games like BF? Do the owners of the servers have the ability to spawn extra tanks for their teams? No, why? Because it is a fucking stupid idea. I couldn't give a bollock about "they pay for the server so they should be al..." NO! Anyone who says that is just arse licking the admins to get free shit, of course you are going to be in favour of it. If this feature wont be disabled then at least split servers where it shows us if admin spawn is disabled or not, give the server owners a choice. I bet there would be a considerable amount of servers out there that would turn off spawning to get more players.
Hackers, this needs no reason. They plague the official servers, although, they do seem to keep kevlar+M4 guys at bay, I have yet to even see one because of the hackers. Use some of that $15,000,000 on powerful servers that can do server side validation. Prove you want to make an awesome game, and not just an awesome bank balance with a flawed game.
Kevlar+M4, as much as all you FPS fanboys are going to disagree. Rust is a survival game, not an FPS. Of course there should be guns, but single shot, hand made guns. The sort of guns that could be shit against a longbow for example.
They are the things for me, that make this game, which has so much potential, so god damn shit. Yes it is alpha, and apparently 10% complete but if it has taken them 3 months to replace zombies with animals, a bed, and wood/rock piles that deform as you hit them then I expect this game to be complete in about 2050.
They provide next to no updates on what the fuck they are even doing. Yes there is trello but I hope to hell that is wrong. 3 things for the next update, new sky, item durability and server dumps. Seriously? How thick are you lot? Hmmm we have some major problems with this game, but fuck that, lets do a new sky! Idiots.
I have just seen "The Forest" trailer and it makes the facepunch developers look so incredibly amateur.
Rage over.
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Again with the complaints from people that seem to think rust is made by a single person. They're a team of many people doing many things, they can mutlitask. Or are you honestly suggesting the best solution is to put the entire art team on hold while the programmers patch exploits? You'd have even smaller patches then which I can't imagine is something you'd really want. They're working on the exploits and it'll get done in time, but it's silly as fuck to get mad at the art crew in the mean time for pushing out more models.
But regardless, try reading the official website if you want to know where the updates are: http://playrust.com/ They've been pushing updates out every week, and the last update fixed an exploit that was killing lots of people. Combine that with how they ARE keeping you guys informed on what's going on with their occasional giant status reports and the trello page, and I really fail to see any problems here.
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There are plenty of changes & additions that need to be made, there's no arguing that. What there is not is any sort of time restriction on how long they can take to finish the game. They can take as long as they want. Hell, it could be 2 or 3 years from now until it's a fully completed game. That all depends on what they want in the game, and even they don't know what that is at the moment. They are building this game on the fly, designing it as they go. That is always going to slow down the works.
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Do you get to decide how much the developers are paid too? It's up to facepunch to make this game a success, and outside of that, they can allocate the funds however they like. If they don't get it right, the market will decide that the game has failed, and they will have to end the project. Market is the keyword here, as in 'free market', the place that ideas are born and realized.
We all took a risk buying this game in alpha that it may never be a successful game. Facepunch took a risk also by deciding to make the game.
That's life. I hope the game works out, but if it don't, it's time to move on.
I'm not being critical of your post, sorry if it sounds that way. I'm just responding with my own thoughts.
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You should read the news, when they announced cheatpunch 11 days ago it is another way of saying that developer resources for rust are now being used to play an endless cat and mouse game with the hackers.
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I'm not mad at the art crew at all, to be honest, the art can stay as it is. I am mad at the programmers who have spent god know how long working on cheatpunch which, btw, works about as well as wet toilet paper.
I never said I should be in control of what goes on, just throwing around my thoughts that run around my head when playing the game. I am happy to read peoples replies who call me an idiot or whatever, I like to know if I am alone in this pool of rage that rust has left me in.
Be critical all you like buddy, that's what forums are for.
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Can wet toilet paper wipe over 4,000 asses? Because Cheatpunch banned over 4,000 hackers on its first day.
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Yeah, I just started a new thread myself a while ago stating that the game is getting boring. So I understand where you are coming from. I just see it from a different angle, that's all.
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Go play on an official server and you tell me if you feel like cheatpunch is working.
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Derp. You need to read more or stop posting.
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If you guys think its ok for this game to take more than 1.5 years to finish then you are being too nice. I absolutely agree. Progress is slow. Very slow. The only helpful changes that were made were stopping the ddos attacks, temporarily stopping hackers and thats it. Someone above said they fixed something causing gathering of resources to kill you. Keep in mind that they started that bug.
Its too slow. For a game at 10% as they say to progress this slow, I'll move on when something new hits the corners. You know what they should? Implement progress bar. 0 to 100% and show us exact progression. This community has literally invested millions into this game.
All in all things should move faster and they should focus all their efforfs on the crucial game mechanics and nature of the game. Leave the visual shit to the end. Show us exactly what you want to do with the game. I honestly believe the game is closer go about 60%. The way it seems they dont know what to do next hence the graphical updates, hence the thread asking US what to replace zombies with. All this should be on their drawing board. If at 10% you are asking me for ideas its because you used up aol yours and have no idea where to go next. Durability of items, bag carry limits, its all small simple shit which can be implemented in less than two weeks. I am a programmer. Although ive developed nothing of this calibre it does not take as long as you may think. Its very possible to implement a bag size limit in a day, have it tested by the community and since the player base is so big bugs will be evident in a couple days and release the appropriate quick fix.
Its too slow.
Now wheres half life 3.
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It caught and temporarily stopped probably 7k cheaters since its been implemented. Since all it does is temporarily stop them from playing the game rather than murder them and their family or brainwash them or inflict bodily injury they can just buy the game again on a new Steam account like pretty much any other game. Knowing this and the fact that it does get breached occasionally is why they are constantly tweaking Cheatpunch. There is no such thing as an anti cheat that 100% stops every possible hack/cheat.
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Do you have examples of successful games that it took less than that amount of time from conception to release? Can you provide links?
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Facepunch is facing and will continue to face this back lash because they went p2p on their Alpha. This is why having a community manager, and customer service is important.
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Uh cheatpunch is working exactly as intended lol. If you'd just read the blog you'd see it's a system to quickly ban most of the people using the current set of hacks (aka over 5,000 people). They're of course gonna make new hacks that bypass the current cheatpunch, or be those few that might've slipped through, but cheatpunch will eventually be updated to get them too. Not all the hackers are gonna be willing to endlessly buy the game over and over again.
cheatpunch was never claimed to always be able to ban every new hack instantly. You're gonna have to have patience with it.
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Yes i agree server side checking is the way to go.
Server side ray tracing of bullet shots should solve shoot thru walls.
Pesudo-random number seeding per client with a server side check can enforce bullet spread and recoil.
Server side movement monitoring can easily catch speed hacking / flying.
ESP and Aimbotting will always be hard to stop since you need to send player location data to each client at max view distance, and can't do sever side culling smoothly. And aimbotting is just automation of player inputs. However the degree of hacks as stated above can be vastly reduced.
Edited:
This is not true,i'm sorry but its not. Many hacks survived the cheat punch ban waves just fine.
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I am sorry, but the MAIN reason this game is in alpha, for money, and is swarming with hackers is because of you, the player base. It was FINE for half a year.
Now the developers have to take a vastly popular platform, and somehow plug all of ing the holes there that agitate this now massive, whiny, and (as it seems from most of the feedback on this forum) 'entitled' userbase.
There is a VERY good REASON, that the game is called ALPHA.
Do not think this is a beta for feedback, do not think this is a marketing developer thing. This is an unfinished product that the developers still have yet to fully implement their original mission, forget peripherals or anything else.
facepunch studios may be swimming in money, but they are also in an position that nobody would want to be in, and you are part of the issue.
If you like the game, then good. Be wait patient. If there is something that is needed of PROMINENT FIXING that is to BREAK YOU ARE ENJOYMENT, then give feedback of issue, and let the developers work on it some time.
The last thing that helk/garry/etc need is you telling them the way you want them to pilot development, and that is assuming they even pay attention to you at this state.
I am sorry for long yell/rant. It is just I have seen this website assailed by this criticism for now 6 months and the established staff and userbase should not be subjected to it. =/
Edited:
VAC and the current CHEATPUNCH are simply a band aid to keep you from yelling. The longer in development, the bigger it will get until the developers see it fit to replace it or finally revamp it so it is comprehensive, optimized, and can keep up with the insane saturation of mean no fun people.
Jajajaja
" I meant 1.5 years from now. How long has this game been in development? We've had it for over half a year now. Theres another maybe half year or even full year behind that.... for ten percent. Its taken nearly 1 or more year for ten percent and all we have is a big map with wood rocks bears wolves. At this rate its another 9 years for completion."
Do you not understand? There is NO way to make an assessment of this because the game at this point isn't SUPPOSED to have people playing it.
It has been a year and half, in which they have created an environment to survive from players and creatures whilst building whatever you want. Most of that was drafted in the 6 months before YOU< YOU TORRENTIAL FLOOD WHO BOGGED DOWN EVERYTHING BEING IDIOTS.
There is a reason that games company does not open itself up and say "Hello we have created NEW ENGINE now please play on it and tell use EXACTLY what we need to do to make a game we have no idea what to it will be made"
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I meant 1.5 years from now. How long has this game been in development? We've had it for over half a year now. Theres another maybe half year or even full year behind that.... for ten percent. Its taken nearly 1 or more year for ten percent and all we have is a big map with wood rocks bears wolves. At this rate its another 9 years for completion.
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All I am going to say is to quit your bitching, you sound like your 12.
They update every week and you knew what you were buying but hey try Starforge... they seem to update every 3 months then a week so go rage off there.
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Make something better then, why don't you?
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Hahahahahaha.
OP... you seem to think that you're owed something.
Just don't play or invest your valuable time in the game and you'll be fine. Go play something else if you don't like it... i know I haven't liked every game I've bought and I've stopped playing plenty.
In short... get over it. It's not your game.
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I'm not disagreeing with you that progress seems slow right now. But to me, for 6 months development time, even having lots of people actually playing the game, seems like quite an accomplishment to me.
I don't think that the dev time is slow, at all. It's a very popular game for an alpha and sure we're getting impatient. But it takes a lot of time and effort to build a successful modern day MMO world.
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According to Garry's Twitter, they won 30,000,000$ with Rust. Just amazing o_O
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While i do support you sir if you post anything here againsts the developers everyone just bitches at you so you should probably post elsewhere, but at least your trying to do something about the fact that things like hackers shitting on official servers for 2 days are occuring while there just updating dat new sky, woooooooot.
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Again, try to grasp the fact that rust isn't made by one person. Yes, the artists are continuing to redo the art assets, that doesn't mean the programmers are sitting around doing nothing. Be patient and they'll take care of it, you were told to expect shit not working like this anyways.
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I have to agree with this for the most part...
I mean for a "company" that's made well into the tens of millions of dollars off a game they haven't even finished yet, they are being seriously amateur about development...
This game should have 25-35 people working on it right now... Judging by the Trello there's only about 6. As a professional Software Engineer, I would be embarrassed to be on this dev team if they are not making strides to expand it. No offense, Facepunch.
Really though... Of all the things they could be doing, nay, NEED to be doing, they've got the art guys working on a new sky? They're worried about the already functional server list being prettier?
The art guys need to be working on the models for some new content - new guns, new animals, etc... And the programming guys, instead of making the server list "pretty", need to be adding that new content.
Damn... Ever heard of prioritizing?
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How did you even come to that conclusion? There's 16 members on the trello page. And like I've said before, it's not like they're not trying to hire more help: http://www.facepunchstudios.com/hiring/ When people apply that are good enough, they'll hire them.
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You claim to be a professional Software Engineer, yet are somehow unable to form a properly structured sentence...
People need to start being realistic with their expectations, and if you had any actual development experience you would realise how absurd the entirety of your statement truly was, and how translucent individuals like yourself tend to be.
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Typo: *16.
And Skynet: I'm the one who is being realistic - the individuals who expect less are the ones being unrealistic.
I mean, in all reality, we all gave Facepunch our money already and to be honest I feel like I've gotten my money's worth out of it. At the moment, Facepunch is treating the game as if it's a finished product. They're focusing on QA stuff for christ sake!
Just sayin', if I was on a $30 million dollar project and my prog team only had it 10% functional, I'd fire someone for "making the menu pretty" if it was already working 100% for the stage we're in. That's telling me they're quite literally saying, "I don't know what to do next, so I'm gonna fuck around with this."
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They are 'focusing on QA stuff', because of the user base.
You included.
This is an alpha. They have plenty of reason to change whatever they want whenever they want. You should keep in mind that in this case, alpha means alpha, not a smudged title to gain leniency, nt a beta to test, but a game not even close to being finished or resembling what it will be.
The developers have perfect freedom to do WHATEVER they want with this, since they (And I have looked) given fair warning.
Are you expecting Planetside landslide type changes per week? You will be sorely mistaken.
"30 million project"?
That is because you came in a massive large wave.
Without any idea what the term alpha means.
Who would not hog the forums meant for feedback to develop the game with people claiming knowing how to direct a project in infancy with no ful idea of developing vision making.
I am sorry, I am very tired of you people. You may feel obligated because you have invested in it, but you are also the reason you needed to do so in the first place.
If I need to write any more of this I am going to have vomit, this is an incredible amount dense people, the not listening who are most vocal.
This is left over when the administrators were the developers and there were only 30 or so people playing.
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You're saying that as if they've done jack shit.
Thank god you aren't working on a project because I would hate to work with someone like you.
How are they working only on that exactly?
Edited:
they made $30 million dollars and have a stable playerbase and have actual updates. Garry himself has already had success with GMod and it has made hum a major millionaire, he's been dedicated to the game for nearly a decade now and even today updates it.
I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing.
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While I generally disagree with this thread for reasons that I am not really in the mood to thoroughly elaborate upon at this given moment, I am forced to agree with that particular point. I have been a part of many games in their alpha stages, many of them with similar sized development studios, and the updates have been fairly minor and spaced out for Rust in particular.
Minecraft when it first started is a perfect example of a dedicated and fast-paced development studio that was small, yet consistently pushed out satisfying weekly/bi-monthly updates that refreshed the Alpha every time which kept users interested instead of eventually bored as they awaited larger updates. And do not say Minecraft is a poor comparison - I do not see Rust with mechanics such as redstone, nor as intelligent of A.I.
Do not get me wrong: I love Rust and I feel it has amazing potential. But the updates have been generally lackluster and leaves a lot to be desired. But I believe patience will be a proper reward when Garry and his studio finally present us a finished and polished product. I believe this will be a good investment.
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The AI in minecraft is really shitty and the most impressive update that's actually on minecraft as of recent time is... horses
Minecraft should have far more stuff in it considering how you don't really have to have an art team or modellers. You know, actual content.
Rust is in the same position as minecraft prerelease, but Notch did far less than the current devs of rust.
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I never said the A.I. in Minecraft was good. But it is better than Rust's - there is no denying that. Not entirely sure what you are talking about with the rest, as the patch notes alone shows how much work Mojang and their small studio was able to shove into just a few days of hard work, including everything from dozens of bug fixes to a large number of new content.
Anyways, Minecraft was not even my point. My point is that I have been a part of many games released for Alpha testing, and most of them were able to provide satisfying weekly/bi-monthly updates that not only contained bug-fixes, but also new content. Since I have been testing Rust, which was over 2 months ago, less than a dozen new objects have been added, hardly any bug fixes have been released, and optimization is not even being considered. Although I have to digress in that their methods for fighting hackers has been very impressive.
But, like I said, do not consider my critique hate towards Rust. I have a lot of faith, which is why I am being patient.
Edited:
Not sure if you are deliberately making stuff up, or if you are just unwillingly mistaken. I am not going to waste my time finding the evidence when you can just get on their wiki and look it up yourself, but not one of the patch releases for Rust compares to even the most minor of patches for Minecraft during its Alpha stages. Not even for its Beta stage. Maybe now that Minecraft is finished and the updates are a bit lesser.
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no where in the alpha does it say that i should expect constant hackers destroying everything we have every day, it says the game is open to change, and if we cant test the game and give feedback thats sort of a problem, art should be less important than server stability
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Christ would you stop blaming the art team already lol, you really don't know what you're talking about. And yes, a game being unplayable from time to time due to a sudden spike in hacks is something that's implied by their message of things not working, and also of things being very early in development (aka the anticheat solutions). It'll get more stabilized in time with patches and potential additions to the anticheat options. Not to mention as more and more hackers get booted out, less are gonna be willing to keep coming back.
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Meh cancelled both my servers had a lot of people on there at one point but the updates stoped coming and it just got boring, Will come back to this game once its started adding a decent amount in, right now the only thing keeping this alive is the modding community.
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I'll repost here what I wrote in response to a similar thread by another person:
The issue that people who were around before Rust have with the people who are just joining now is about the issue of entitlement. When you buy into a game in a early-access alpha state, you are expected to realise that the game isn't in a finished or developed state at that time. Think about the difference between when Minecraft was first in alpha versus where it is now (no weather, no biomes, no blocks besides grass, dirt, stone and water, only basic tools, no monsters besides zombies and the only animals were pigs and there was no health bar or sprinting or potions or ender dragon or nether, or anything really). In fact, think about what minecraft was like before alpha, Minecraft Classic, which was just a simple block building game with no premise or survival elements whatsoever.
Rust is arguably at that stage right now. The game is being actively developed and constantly updated with new features that may drastically change the game. Considering the game hasn't even been out for a year yet, a year from now you might not even recognize it. With that in mind, the main issue people are complaining about are hackers. Garry and his team have released updates and are continuing to work towards a hacker-free build of the game. Thousands of people have already been banned but there are simply so many people hacking that they haven't gotten around to banning them all yet. They simply cannot ban people based on reports since that is so prone to abuse it's not even funny, and yet people continue to post reports DEMANDING that offenders be banned despite it being made very clear that things don't work that way and that facepunch forum mods don't have the power to ban people within games (outside the forums). The only way to effectively deal with large amounts of hackers is by systematically working through the codebase and looking for ways to detect hacks that are using exploits as a way to automatically ban them. The facepunch team is delligently working through this as fast as they can and it really isn't reasonable for people with no experience in programming to essentially try to whip them and say "go faster!" when it really isn't helping anyone. It is certainly possible in the near-future that hacking in Rust will be the exception not the rule but until that time comes, will you please stop attacking facepunch mods and users who have nothing to do with the development of the game? And will you please stop attacking the developers who are already working hard to fix the problem? You really have no right to complain when you bought a in-development game that the developers are still developing. If I were you, I'd save my breath until the facepunch team stops working on the game when it is half-finished and still full of hackers, but given Garry's track record of supporting his other game for almost 8 years, I don't think you'll need to worry about that.
You're suggesting that you're some sort of software designer (and I'm already pretty skeptic of that), but you don't seem to have any experience making a mod/game as part of a team of many people. If you had then you would know that things work in stages, and building a bullet-proof code base takes a very long time. It's commendable that the rust team manages to release weekly updates (which is more often then most early-access game developers), but there has never been any AAA-quality game that got finished in under a year (even Call Of Duty, which is incredibly linear, copies the engine, models, textures and animations from previous games and graphically doesn't even look that good, takes around 2 years to develop). There's no reason why the art team can't work on art stuff while the programming team works on building up the code base, it's not like they can just interchange jobs (one group would only know how to art stuff and the other can only do programming stuff), and making stuff like the skybox is much quicker and easier than say developing a new weapon or character model. Making the code base hacker-proof is the longest-taking part, once that's done and the important stuff is out of the way, then the programmers can start focusing on weapons and gameplay mechanics and things. If you fire people for making art for your game, then I'd hate to work for you under any profession.
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On the very store page that you blindly clicked through in your haste to own another game you know nothing about, there is a very big box that specifically states "THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS, SOME THINGS WORK, SOME THINGS DON'T WORK." Your issue with hackers falls into the latter category.
On a side note, I wish facepunch could create a way to fuel rust's development with the tears of all the whiners.
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I realize that you are just trying to throw out your ideas, but you are really being a dick about it (no offense, but that is how you are coming off as). You need to realize that programming takes time, as well as the devs NEVER expected the game to become as popular as it did. The games huge boom is still going to take some getting used to for them as they have to compensate for the fact that previously they were only making a game for about 1000+ people, now it's around ~60,000 (don't take my word for that number). Also a few of the ideas are currently being addressed (ex. guns are a huge WIP). That's all I have to say.
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