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Post #1
I'm going to start by saying that this is probably going to turn in to a wall of text. I'm fully aware that I will probably be permabanned from the forums for this post. I really don't care, it only serves to reinforce my argument. It seems to me that facepunch has no idea what they are doing as a studio right now. As they proceed to pump out superficial update after superficial update they continue to leave the gamebreaking hackers unchecked. Not only has cheatpunch failed to remove the hackers, it somehow made the hacking situation far worse. Instead of spending some of that $20million they made on hiring an admin or two whos jobs would be to not play the game but just moderate the servers and permaban blatantly obvious hackers, they instead decide it's far more important to have nazi forum moderators who permaban people for the slightest infraction. Any sort of criticism of the studio or what the devs are doing is instantly met with a permaban. If they had someone spending 1/100th of the time the forum moderators spend moderating the forums moderating the servers I wouldn't be writing this.
So what are we testing for? Isn't it to tell the devs the problems we encounter and what should be a priority? Or is it so they can completely ignore us and focus on putting in lockpicks and a prettier sky. Meanwhile the player base is stuck between choosing private servers with admins that have way too much power or hackers that just destroy hundreds of hours of work in an instant. Either way you're screwed and wasting your time. Get abused by the admins on private servers or get rolled by ridiculous hacks. It's a demoralizing situation and if it isn't addressed soon it will kill the game. The reason rust got so big to begin with is from word of mouth. It had the potential to be an amazing game. However I've become convinced that it is never going to reach that potential. What made this game popular is very soon going to destroy it. All of my friends that I talked in to buying the game have quit and I can't say I blame them. I can't come up with a legitimate argument as to why they shouldn't.
If this company had the slightest idea of what it was doing the moderators on the forums would be addressing the problems players come across and stating how it's either a non issue, or something that is being worked on very soon or at least give some form of communication. Instead what we get are people banned for making suggestions and no communication on what the hell the devs are thinking. I fully understand that this game is in alpha. That is not an excuse for a company completely ignoring what their playerbase is saying. There have been about 40 different posts this week just simply asking for a rollback on an official server because a hacker destroyer about 10,000 hours worth of players work in a matter of minutes. The server had been rolled back at least 10 times the week before arbitrarily. Now that everyone is begging for a rollback we get no response. It's unprofessional, it's irritating, and it has nothing to do with the game being in alpha.
Rant over. Bring on the forum permaban and prove my point.
(User was permabanned for this post ("Asked to be permabanned" - MaxOfS2D))
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everyone one of your points are null and void. you sir have no comprehension of what the hell you are talking about. Take a break, get some air, its a game. over a million people play this game and if it was really that bad it would be 2000. Im not even going to attempt to debate anything you said basically because all of it has already been proven wrong if you do a little searching around the forum and patch notes. Other than that its blatant ignorance and entitlement. Sorry to hear your experience hasnt been a perfect alpha experience, but seriously. Its a game, and one that is barely off the ground. Its clear that you just think they are sitting on their asses eating cheetos and wiping the orange powder off their fingers with $100 bills. Do you have any idea just how much it takes to even make a light blink? let alone make a video game? There is still 90% of the content that needs to be added to this game and there will always be hackers, always. If they were to stop production and focus solely on making this game hack proof it would never be finished because its impossible
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The facepunch mods don't work at facepunch studios you knob. I'm sorry you lost you're hours of "work", but the game is in alpha. You chose to buy the game in alpha. You could have waited for the game to be finished, but you chose to buy it in alpha. So tbh it's your own fault for expecting a finished product when it's in alpha.
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You are dumb, cheatpunch did a decent Job and wasn't the end of all hackers of all time. Quit the game or be patient, you my not so friend are not cut out for this game.
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Such brinksmanship. Such drama.
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I fully expected this ignorant excuse. It's completely moronic. I never said the game was a bad game. I said it was a great game, or at least has great potential. That's why so many people have paid for it. It got over a million players from people telling their friends to play it with them. I've personally convinced 5 of my friends to buy it. Please explain to me how it is some sense of entitlement for a now multimillion dollar company to hire one guy at minimum wage to moderate? I have 300 hours logged in to rust. How many do you have? They obviously have the money to pay forum moderators to never answer a single question players have and go around banning people from the forums for doing a testers job. You wont debate a single point a made because you probably didn't read more than the first 3 sentences. Either that or because you have absolutely no counter argument.
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Okay, well for just a minute to entertain your theory...I would have to completely ignore the countless players who have already been VAC banned, the implementation of Cheatpunch and the initial 5000+ players that were banned by that and counting.
This game as you should be aware is still in alpha stage. Now, I don't know how long you've been a game developer for but I'm pretty sure that in alpha the main focus and priority should be on the development of the actual game itself.
The combination of Cheatpunch and VAC have already proven far more effective than many other anti-cheats I've seen in numerous other games.
Also, I wonder if it has occurred to you at all, that perhaps the reason that players are not being individually and manually banned is perhaps the developers are in fact gathering data on what they are doing so instead of wasting time banning onsies and twosies and personally investigating EVERY SINGLE report of "ZOMG! This guy is a haxxor!" regardless of whether or not it can be verified...instead they can drop the banhammer mothership on the whole lot of them at the same time just like they did with the initial implementation of Cheatpunch.
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5000+ Banned hackers say otherwise kiddo.
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I love how you dumbed everyone who disagreed with you. You obviously aren't changing your mind so I guess you are beyond help.
Also, I don't play Rust, I don't own Rust, I don't like Rust. So I'm not being a biased fanboy, everything I'm saying is my honest opinion.
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forum moderators aren't paid genius
before making stupid claims
make sure your claims are accurate
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Wow, a well thought out response. I was never trying to say the game should be hacker free right away. My argument is that the devs don't communicate with the players and instead punish them for pointing out legitimate issues. Cheatpunch was very effective for about 4 days then the hacks came back worse than ever.
Why is it excusable that a server can be rolled back around 10 times in a week for no reason what so ever and then when about 30 people from the server come to the forums to say that literally every item everyone has collected has been destroyed by a hacker we get no response? Is this because of alpha?
Edited:
Damn I guess doling out pay for a minimum wage position is far too expensive. You just totally invalidated my argument.
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Until you can differentiate between Facepunch Studios developers paid to work on Rust and Facepunch forum moderators tasked with enforcing forum rules (such as posting in the correct subforum), I don't think anyone will take you seriously regardless of what argument you're actually making.
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Meh, I'll check back on the game in 3 months when the community is down to 3k players and development is over. The fact is you can't run a studio like this for very long.
Edited:
Until you can learn to debate a single one of my arguments instead of calling me out for not being aware of an absolutely arbitrary fact I can't take you seriously. I see people posting in the proper forums all the time getting banned.
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That "arbitrary fact" forms the core of several of your arguments, buddy. Including the one I was replying to. Try again.
Name me some people that you think were unjustly banned. I'm not a mod, but I can read event logs and probably guess why a mod banned a person given the post and ban reason.
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Will you also complain when the servers are wiped and you lose hundreds of hours of work? You clearly have no concept of an alpha, Garry has previously said there is another trello list unseen by us, where they are keeping the big secrets, how do you know what's on there and what's coming next?
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Complete and Utter Ignorance.
I wasn't going to post in this thread because its like taking a bath in molten lava but actually look into any of your argument and you'll see specifically why you are so wrong.
Instead of coming here in a flustered rage because you've lost that "10,000 hours". (Which is about a year.)
Quit being a Drama Queen, its Early Access.
Suck it up, you knew what you were buying into.
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Absolutely not. I've played through several wipes. That's part of the development process.
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I don't know if you're aware of this or not but Facepunch is the same company that made Garry's Mod which was released in 2004 and continues to remain in the top 10 most played games on Steam, not only that but it's the oldest game in that top 10 as well with most of the other games being pretty recent releases. Facepunch has a solid track record and it's not based on over-hyped gimmicks.
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Lol. You call me ignorant and say that I said that I lost 10,000 hours of gameplay. Try getting some reading comprehension. This community is hilarious.
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So when a hacker destroys the server, treat it as a wipe.
When a admin abuses his powers, move to a new server, it's the same as a wipe.
Don't tell me it defeats the point, you just told me you do to complain at wipes, meaning you accept them.
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At this moment everything is client-side. now you may say "Ok that is dumb" and yeah it is, but no it's not. It helps the team see bugs easier and fix them. Yeah it does make it super easy to cheat but, the moment client side is moved to server-side, there will be a huge decline in cheaters I hope to imagine.
that, and, you know this, but it's alpha. The more cheaters the harder the anti-cheat by release anyways, I would imagine.
Eventually they will change this.
Edited:
also, facepunch has been here WAY BEFORE rust has even been a thought
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So far what I've gotten from this thread is the same general nonsense aside from a few valid questions. Would I be angry if the server got wiped and I lost everything? No. Would I be mad if I got raided and lost everything? No. Apparently the facepunch forums are not run by or even looked at by facepunch. Well that's a pretty intelligent way to get feedback about your game that is in alpha. Some hackers got banned when cheatpunch came out then 4 days later a new wave of even more game breaking cheats get released. Apparently a company that makes $20million over the course of a few months can't afford to hire a couple more people. You people have no argument. You just spew the same lame tired excuses over and over.
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Early. Fucking. Access.
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I just gave you the reason for the hackers. And they ARE fixing it slowly, but they have to make the game first. The game development comes before all.
garry can't be resposible for what other people do, just relax, they're trying to make the game. they can't stop all progress just to fix the cheating because the game comes first in terms of development.
that and, as has been said, everything right now is clientside so that they can bugfix far far easier. This will change.
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you guys are idiots, this game is clearly ruined right now by cheats. try playing it, and not in a 5 man roleplay server. the guy is right, 5000 cheaters banned BIG DEAL. 1 million copies sold its a drop in the pot. this game is hacked out to the max and needs to be adressed ASAP try and find a server where people aren't jumping over mountains and speeding like race cars on the road or killing you inside your locked base with no windows yea there's a huge problem.
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With the exception that you're completely ignoring any of the arguments posed above? Not only that, but I am not completely sure you know what the facepunch community is about and how the mods and developers interact with the user base. Garry comes on here, but I rarely see him post. Facepunch is more for the community than it is for developers to receive feedback, they get that through other means as far as I know.
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I've calmly tried explaining exactly whats going on but
Apparently you don't care for an explanation, you just want to complain.
Rust literally could not have ever existed and Facepunch would not have been affected at all
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You're really, really slow. We're playing an alpha -- that means the development comes before security... But Facepunch STILL worried about integrating VAC and then Cheatpunch, just to help with the situation. And there are something like five THOUSAND servers. How much could a few paid moderators do? And is that money they would lose from the development budget? No thanks. I want a fantastic game, and if hacker are an issue on my server, I simply move on to find another one. It's really easy.
One last time -- They HAVE been trying very hard to address hacking. I wish they hadn't, but they spent time on that rather than deving Ziplines (please please please), and thus your wishes have already been granted at the potential expense of a better game. That's one of the pitfalls of letting a player base access an early alpha game.
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Jinx I was never arguing any of your points. I'd love to see some more game development. I just think the game should be made playable first. My point was that they need to hire one or two more people. They clearly can afford to do it. I'm not saying I expect hacking to disappear right away. Developing the anti cheat takes time. Until it is done a stopgap measure would be great. I'm saying with the slightest amount of moderation the game would be 1000x more playable.
oh and Kennyawsum try rereading what I typed originally. Maybe after you read it 4 or 5 times you might be able to understand basic english. I said player hours not my hours.
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I love coming to these posts only to read the goldies responses. They all act like they are higher beings and are facepunch forums gift to this community. I get sick of seeing the same 10 people with gold names responding to these threads with witty half brained responses. I sure wish I had nothing better to do than boost my post count on a forum. "Oh I paid for a gold name so I can say and do what I want on these forums." That's the attitude you lot put off.
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The game is not your game
You are not entitled to a specific style of product
You do not get a say in the development process
Facepunch Studios knows more than you about game development
Conclusion
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well i dont care what you calmly did, fact is more dedication towards getting cheaters banned needs to be done first on the list. And with your logic they need to leave it client side so the can find the cheats and bugs? make it server side will be still be cheaters 100% sure. Best idea to me would be get the cheats themselves and reverse engineer them seems like a smarter approach to me.
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Some of the shittiest posters I've seen are Blue members you know.
That being said some golds are an embarrassment yes but please don't judge us because someone who is an arrogant tard decided to buy old or was given it or something (not saying anyone here is)
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Most of it's childish un needed banter from the same group of golds. You cant deny it.
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i don't play rust or anything but last time i checked the entire objective of an early access alpha is basically free bug reporting. creating the game comes before polishing the user experience... pretty much always?
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Ironic how unneeded banter is coming from you, a non gold
gets you thinking doesn't it?
gold doesn't really mean shit
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Those two statements are a contradiction in terms and demonstrate you don't understand what an alpha really is.
Oh, look, this argument again. I'm going to tell you this short and simple. It doesn't work that way. Adding an extra person on staff does not correspond to 1 full person's worth of productivity unless you're very lucky.
Throwing more warm bodies at a problem is never the solution unless the problem is that your dogpile doesn't have enough people in it, or you're fighting a land war in Asia. You've got to hire the right person, and then that person has to spend some time learning how everything is set up and getting up to speed, and then you've got a ton of overhead and lost productivity helping them get integrated and working nicely with everyone.
And if they turn out to be a clueless fuckwad that lied about his qualifications, that could actually set development back by taking up time having to clean up his messes.
Besides, if the solution was to throw money and bodies at the game, Battlefield 4 would be so legendary nobody would give half a shit about Rust because we'd all be playing BF4. How'd that work out?
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you spend to much time being "gold" and less time actually playing the game you don't even know what happens in game. FIX the hax GG.
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little known fact: gold members are required to spend time pumping a footpedal a certain number of hours a day to remain gold. this clearly translates to less time available for other activities
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